Video showing my wrist position - ergonomics
DanielleOM
My open mike host posted this on youtube. In the video you can clearly see
my wrist position. Do you see something that makes you want to say ouch?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MprAP7cm7JU
Unfortunately the sound is not good. The guitar really does sound much
better than what this video suggests. It's an Eastman archback guitar.
Danielle
Tim McNamara
"DanielleOM" <danie...@reply.to.group.com> wrote:
> My open mike host posted this on youtube. In the video you can clearly see
> my wrist position. Do you see something that makes you want to say ouch?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MprAP7cm7JU
Not really. The different wrist positions are what happens with
switching between "jazz grips" (like the 3rd position Gmaj7 you use) and
barre chords (like the 5th position D7). You could use different
voicings (e.g., x5453x for the D7) if the sound suits the song.
> Unfortunately the sound is not good. The guitar really does sound much
> better than what this video suggests. It's an Eastman archback guitar.
That's always a problem unless you've got a line vidcam feed from the PA.
--
"I wear the cheese, it does not wear me."
Joey Goldstein
Looks to me like your wrist angle, generally speaking, is fine.
The sharpest bending I saw was on those A13 and Dmaj7 grips around Pos
V. Try changing the position of your thumb and see if that helps you to
be able to straighten out the wrist a bit more on those grips. Try
moving the thumb more towards the nut.
There are certain things things that we all have to play that will force
us to use a sharp wrist angle occasionally. It's important to keep these
things to a minimum and to not over-stress the hand or you'll get Carpal
Tunnel Syndrome.
Oftentimes we don't really have to use the grip that forces the sharp
wrist angle. Oftentimes there's an equally musical sounding, or more
musical sounding, thing we could play instead.
--
Joey Goldstein
<http://www.joeygoldstein.com>
<http://homepage.mac.com/josephgoldstein/AudioClips/audio.htm>
joegold AT primus DOT ca
Greger Hoel
<danie...@reply.to.group.com>:
> My open mike host posted this on youtube. In the video you can clearly
> see my wrist position. Do you see something that makes you want to say
> ouch?
Yes -- but with your left arm, not the wrist itself. It looks like you're
pulling the hips of the guitar closer to your body, which in turn makes
the neck point slightly forward, not straight to your side. This makes you
extend your left arm more than necessary. Try pulling the neck closer and
I bet your arm will feel more relaxed, which in turn will positively
affect your wrist.
--
Always cross a vampire; never moon a werewolf
Rick Stone
Yeah, OUCH! it looks to me like your wrist juts WAY out in an
exaggerated kind of way for certain chords, Even the basic 13th chords
which don't involve any bar. Maybe you're trying to hold your index
finger too straight?
I'm with Jack Zucker on this, I just played an open position C chord to
a F bar chord and see that my wrist is straight and barely moves when
making that change. Yours is all over the place and I think that's
what's causing your problems.
I look at mine and see that even when a full six string bar, there's
always a very gentle arch in my first finger (while still sounding all
six strings clearly with one finger). The tip of my index finger is on
the 6th string and my finger bends at about a 45 degree angle at the
second knuckle (right where it clears the edge of the neck)
This is why people need good teachers, but it's a drag that there's no
"agreed upon" technique for guitar other than classical. So many people
have had to work it out for themselves and some come up with better
solutions than others. So often times people who are teaching don't
even know.
--
Rick Stone
website: www.rickstone.com
Some of My Other sites: www.myspace.com/rickstonemusic
www.facebook.com/rickstonemusic www.sonicbids.com/rickstone
www.reverbnation.com/rickstone www.youtube.com/jazzand
www.cdbaby.com/all/jazzand http://jazzguitarny.ning.com
rpjazzguitar
Makes it easier to see what you're doing, but forces an awkward wrist
angle on some of the chords.
As a check, you might try sitting and making sure the fingerboard is
straight up and down. Then see if your wrist angle is better. If so, I
wonder if there is something you can do while standing with the strap
and/or a pad on the back of the guitar to keep the fingerboard
vertical.
TD
wrote:
Why does your left hand shake? Is it because you are nervous or is
there more involved. Your wrist does jut out exceptionally far with
certain chords ( and you come in way to close with other chords, thus
the thumb acts is 'up-parascoping' into the coda), but you can be
double jointed or just utilizing a bastard approach. Many players have
a bastard approach and have managed to over-compensate. The ouch
factor can become merely personal. The shaking is a point of interest.
-TD
DanielleOM
"rpjazzguitar" <rpjazz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6c5e5afd-d326-42c3...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
At the time the video was taken, I had just started using that guitar a
little more, as I had just had a K&K pure western mini pickup installed in
it. That guitar has an arched back. Distance across the back at the lower
bout is 15 1/4". Body depth measured at the edge of the guitar is 4".
After watching the video again and experimenting here in front of the mirror
I see the shape of that guitar back and my body shape do tend to make that
guitar position while standing up very sensitive to any force I put on the
guitar. At the moment I believe this more sensitive than what I get with my
16" archtop. Fret board does seem to face up a little with that guitar. I
am beginning to think this guitar may not be the best for playing in a
standing position.
Danielle
DanielleOM
"TD" <tonyde...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0fe88e9b-6654-4fdf...@r10g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
-TD
I am not sure about the cause of the shaking. I think its part physical and
part mental. At the time I was becoming more aware and focused on how I
tend to get a little more shaky with certain chord positions. Mentally I
think this feeds on itself and makes the problem worse. Into the mix we can
add the effect of caffeine (coffee house venue) and a little stage freight.
I find I need to play a while before I get relaxed. At open mikes I find
it's hard to get to that relaxed state.
DanielleOM
"Rick Stone" <rick...@rickstone.com> wrote in message
news:hhqpmn$edn$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Rick
I see your point as to how just using the finger tip on the 6th string would
allow more of the finger to bend clear of the fretboard. However after
experimenting I am still not getting to a point where I could say my wrist
and hand are anywhere near in line with each other. I would love to see a
good example.
Danielle
Rick Stone
You're definitely NOT supposed to be able to see the strings or the
fretboard when you're playing. That's why they put those little dots on
top and some guitars just have a plain fingerboard. The markers on the
fingerboard are good when you're teaching (or watching somebody else
play) but really shouldn't matter to the person playing. That's why a
lot of the country players got smart and used that as "advertising"
space by having their name inlaid on the fingerboard (don't want your
audience to forget who the guitar player is :-)
oasysco
Danielle,
Addressing the sound of the vid... you are recording to a video
camera, the audio of which is being replicated thru PC speakers, all
of which account for loss of fidelity. Backfilling those losses with
my musical imagination, tells me the sound of the guitar is
excellent.
Just for a measurement, the firsttime I listened to your vid, it was
thru crappier speakers and I thought the harp was a violin. Now
listening thru much better speakers, I hear the harp - and the other
guitar!
Nice tune, too! I suspect that there is a lucky person in your life
who inspired that tune and those lyrics. Let us know the backstory :)-
Greg
DanielleOM
"oasysco" <oas...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:37e395b3-4abf-4b14...@l30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Danielle,
Greg
Greg
The K&K pickup really needs a preamp with a 1 Meg input impedance. I think
the guitar was plugged into one the mixer line in jacks.
Re the back story to the tune, I will borrow a line from a standard: "Just
friends, lovers no more". C'est la vie.
Danielle
guitarannie
and also to try and get the guitar to where your elbow is under the
fingerboard as close to a vertical line as you can, so when you open
your hand towards the sky the neck will fall naturally into your hand.
This will put the least strain on your hand.
Try to get your wrist straight.
That is how i was taught and i can play for many hours without any
discomfort.
That being said My hand is too small to do an over the top thumb
fingering and so this advice may be all wrong but it may help. You
will stretch the tendons less this way but I'm not a doctor.
Good luck
SAS
DanielleOM
"guitarannie" <guita...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:769550de-b231-4534...@c34g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
Strangely enough the more you know the more complex things seem to become.
I assume that the elbow under the neck position applies in a classical
sitting position. I couldn't come even close to doing that while standing
with a 16" archtop or small OM size flattop.
While talking with a friend last night it seems he likes to keep the elbow
back at the body so that the hand and forearm are straight with the fingers
bending over the fret board. If the elbow comes forward the wrist bends.
It would be interesting to know where most people keep their fretting side
elbow when playing.
Danielle
DanielleOM
"guitarannie" <guita...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:769550de-b231-4534...@c34g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
guitarannie
wrote:
> "guitarannie" <guitaran...@gmail.com> wrote in message
You are right about the sitting position. I did study classical.
Mostly i play solid body axes which are as close to the body as you
can get.
When i said under the neck I realized i described an exaggerated
position.
Just try to get your hand and wrist as relaxed and not over extended.
"If the elbow comes forward the wrist bends."
If the neck does not come up, yes.
Pain could also be due to humidity and other factors that have nothing
to do with technique.
I play with a guy who plays with his thumb over the top all the time
and he's fine.
I saw an Electric bassist that had NO arch to her fingers just flat.
Rick Stone
Nope, if you adjust your strap correctly you can angle your neck up
about the same as you would for classical.
General Observation: about 95% of the new students I see have their
straps adjusted WAY to long, and subsequently the neck of the guitar is
too low. They almost always think that the reason they can't reach
common and easily playable chords is because their hands are too small
(which is almost NEVER the case).
Work on how you HOLD your instrument. Change can take a bit to get used
to and you'll probably have to adjust your strap a lot shorter than you
initially think is comfortable, but if you let the neck come up and the
body go down, it becomes quite manageable.
DanielleOM
Rick
I believe I have made progress in that I find I can at least now play the
bar minor 7ths keeping my wrist and hand straight (in line).. The first
finger with tip on the 5th string, bends at the fret board edge as you
suggested. Elbow is back at the side of my body when doing this.
F major bar (with straight wrist) seems possible with my Martin D18 with
it's narrower nut. Most of my guitars have a 1 3/4" nut.
Where is your elbow typically? Is it under the neck as Annie suggested or
back at the side of your body?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Danielle
>