Sadowsky True-Tone Archtop Saddle
matt
could save some headaches.
anyone tried one?
http://www.sadowsky.com/media/new/true_tone_saddle/saddles_lg.jpg
sheetsofsound
looks cool. He's always coming up with something new and interesting.
On the other hand, my luthier cuts compensated ebony bridges all the
time. He just starts with a straight across model but files it to
match the pattern that he gets when he intonates it with a tuneamatic.
kind of like this (http://www.allparts.com/v/vspfiles/photos/
GB-0501-0E2-2.jpg) but he customizes it to actually match where the
adjustable saddles were in the tuneamatic.
Bg
What if you changes string guages?
Bg
Arthur Quinn
Seems to me that the only advantage of that design is from the point of
view of mass production. It removes the angled faces from the
conventional compensated bridge, reducing it from a 3D to a 2D design
and so reducing the machining time. Variations will also be easier to
program. This is at the expense of added mass, both literally and visually.
Arthur
--
Arthur Quinn
real-email arthur at bellacat dot com
sheetsofsound
> On 01/04/2011 03:55, matt wrote:
>
> > looks cool.
> > could save some headaches.
> > anyone tried one?
>
> >http://www.sadowsky.com/media/new/true_tone_saddle/saddles_lg.jpg
>
> Seems to me that the only advantage of that design is from the point of
> view of mass production.
you're partially right. The advantage is *mass*.
Tim McNamara
Arthur Quinn <art...@invalid-domain.co.uk> wrote:
> On 01/04/2011 03:55, matt wrote:
> > looks cool. could save some headaches. anyone tried one?
> >
> > http://www.sadowsky.com/media/new/true_tone_saddle/saddles_lg.jpg
>
> Seems to me that the only advantage of that design is from the point
> of view of mass production. It removes the angled faces from the
> conventional compensated bridge, reducing it from a 3D to a 2D design
> and so reducing the machining time. Variations will also be easier to
> program. This is at the expense of added mass, both literally and
> visually.
The primary advantage is intonation. The conventional saddle as shown
is a middling compromise at beat in terms of intonation, despite its
elegant appearance. The saddle on my archtop looks just like that and
the guitar does not intonate properly, which becomes more and more
noticeable as I play chords up the neck. This is one of the reasons I
tend to play my solid body guitars more; the intonation is as close to
perfect as I can manage and the guitar sounds better throughout its
range.
As for mass, increased mass will tend to improve sustain so that may be
a benefit (it may also increase feedback on some instruments).
Regarding the "visual mass" of the thing, it looks no worse than the
Tune-o-Matic bridges used on tens of thousands of archtops. Given that
it's dark wood and- at least in my case- matches the bridge foot, the
difference in appearance will be unnoticeable to most everyone but the
guitarist.
I'd like to give one of these a try.
--
"It is not unfrequent to hear men declaim loudly upon liberty, who, if we may
judge by the whole tenor of their actions, mean nothing else by it but their
own liberty ‹ to oppress without control or the restraint of laws all who
are poorer or weaker than themselves." Samuel Adams
Arthur Quinn
The intonation problem was solved long ago. Every decent archtop maker
now provides a compensated bridge. The two basic ways it is done are
with multiple facets or by running a smooth curve through the necessary
points. Both of these methods are essentially three dimensional and
require either handwork or a 3D programmed CNC router.
The Sadowsky scheme eliminates the need to make a complex 3D surface. I
just thought it looked ugly and found myself wondering "Why on earth
would anyone do it like that"
Bob R.
> On 01/04/2011 15:04, Tim McNamara wrote:
>
>
>
It does look funky. But at $50 for a single, $90 for the set, I might
check 'em out. If it sounds good and works well, it'd make archtop
playing more pleasant.
Tim McNamara
Arthur Quinn <art...@invalid-domain.co.uk> wrote:
And they don't work particularly well. They are an approximation of
good intonation, not the achievement of it. The multiple facet approach
is not any better looking than this bridge saddle by Sadowsky. I had
one of those initially on my archtop, made of rosewood. It was never
completely properly intonated. A chunk of wood splintered out under the
A string, so I replaced it with a smoothly arced bridge by Bill Gagnon.
It's pretty and elegant and, made of ebony, brightened up the guitar
some. In fact, being thinner and harder I noticed that the strings
between the tailpiece and the bridge would ring out of tune overtones
and I have to weave a damper made of a strip of neoprene through the
strings behind the bridge to stop this.
> The Sadowsky scheme eliminates the need to make a complex 3D surface.
> I just thought it looked ugly and found myself wondering "Why on
> earth would anyone do it like that"
Perhaps because they want their guitar to be as close to properly
intonated as possible without resorting to a rattly metal Tune-o-Matic
bridge?
I just ordered one and will post a review when I get it installed.
sheetsofsound
> In article <CUllp.2909$Dj5....@newsfe10.ams2>,> > > In article<utglp.20824$jo4.13...@newsfe03.ams2>,
you're all discounting the fact that the increased mass may have a
positive contribution to the tone.
Also, the way my luthier does it is that he intonates with a
tuneamatic and then makes a contour in ebony to match. How is that an
approximation?
Bg
> the guitar does not intonate properly, which becomes more and more
> noticeable as I play chords up the neck. This is one of the reasons I
> tend to play my solid body guitars more; the intonation is as close to
> perfect as I can manage and the guitar sounds better throughout its
> range.
>
string down and G strinbg a bit sharp to be in tune on the neck, a
real Pain.
That type of bridge intones fine on my 25-1/2" scale guitar , but
terrible on my 24-3/4 scale.
Bg
Tim McNamara
<88b5223b-ade8-4b06...@1g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
sheetsofsound <jackz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> you're all discounting the fact that the increased mass may have a
> positive contribution to the tone.
I thought I had already mentioned that...
> Also, the way my luthier does it is that he intonates with a
> tuneamatic and then makes a contour in ebony to match. How is that an
> approximation?
If he is making a "stairstepped" bridge saddle it isn't; the
approximation was was referring to is on saddles with a smooth curve
like the one shown in the top of Sadowsky's picture. I've never seen a
properly intonated guitar where the saddle positions matched a curve
from low to high. With those saddles you intonate the E strings and
hope for the best with the middle four.
Anyway, I'll post my findings when I have findings. My tuner can
measure cents on the dial, so I should be able to quantify any
improvements in intonation.
Paul Hotchkiss
>
> - Show quoted text -
Looks ugly to me, and a standard 3-D compensated bridge can be had
(with base) for under $20 from most places.
Bg
> Also, the way my luthier does it is that he intonates with a
> tuneamatic and then makes a contour in ebony to match. How is that an
>
> - Show quoted text -
But doesn't it depend on String guage?
Or does going from 12's to 14's not that big a difference on the
bridge?
Bg
sheetsofsound
yes, that's why he does it the way he does. However, I rarely reset
the intonation after chaning string guage.
Tim McNamara
<136f63e7-ab23-4f6d...@q12g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
Paul Hotchkiss <phot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Looks ugly to me, and a standard 3-D compensated bridge can be had
> (with base) for under $20 from most places.
Had one of those, as I mentioned above, and IMHO not really any
prettier. I suppose one could reshape the edges of the Sadowsky a bit,
if one desires.
Arthur Quinn
> In article<CUllp.2909$Dj5...@newsfe10.ams2>,
David J. Littleboy
"Bg" <ott...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
I have that S shaped bridge onMy Ibanez and I have to tune the B
string down and G strinbg a bit sharp to be in tune on the neck, a
real Pain.
That type of bridge intones fine on my 25-1/2" scale guitar , but
terrible on my 24-3/4 scale.
<<<<<<<<<<
FWIW, the A string on my '52 L4 with the stairstepped rosewood bridge is
slightly off, and the G string on my Holst smooth curved ebony bridge is
slightly out. Everything else is "correct" according to my Boss TU-80 tuner.
I'm not convinced that those amounts of slightly out are enough to be a
problem in an equal-tempered universe. My current major intonation problem
is that in the arrangement of Stella I play, I hit x653xx at one point with
the Bb being the melody note. It's always flat on every guitar I've ever
played, and I always find myself trying to pull it up. My Boss tuner tells
me that all 3 strings are in tune, all three fretted notes are in tune, and
that the correct (pulled up) pitch I hear is sharp.
Of course, that's as an ex-violinist who spent a lot of time working on
getting double stop intonation correct. YMMV.
--
David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
matt
> the Bb being the melody note.
yeah that voicing is never in tune for me on any guitar
David J. Littleboy
Ah. You mean to say that it's one of those "bashing your head into a brick
wall" things. If you don't do it, it doesn't hurt...
Mark Cleary
"Bg" wrote in message
news:ed7860f2-e993-448f...@d26g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
That is the advantage of changing string it works both ways. All saddles can
be set with a particular string gage but if you change age then it can be
off. In most cases it is not enough to cause a problem for the average
player. I set on my guitars the compromise saddle based in his terminology
and it works fine. I can use 12-52 with a wound G. I can also use as big as
.14-54 and no problems with intonation. If you really want to nail it you
have to keep things consistent and set the saddle for the strings you use
and then do not change the gage. In the real world it seems close enough for
most but some players it can matter. Could depend on where you spend you
time on the fingerboard too.
Deacon Mark Cleary
Epiphany Church
Tom Walls
you've got a big problem -- it doesn't pay to be too nuts about
intonation. I believe "close enough for jazz" is the applicable phrase.
Here's me tuning: "blink, blink, blink. Sounds a little off. Full speed
ahead!"
kentburnside
Interesting. I used to have a '58 L-4C with original wooden bridge,
and it had the most perfect intonation of any archtop I've ever owned.
Kent Burnside
www.kentburnside.com
www.facebook.com/kentburnside