Paypal Sucks (.com)
Rick Del Savio
here using Paypal to collect funds from your CD sales? Any
problems/difficulties? TIA, RDS
--
Jazz Guitarist/Educator
Check out lessons and original music @
http://www.rickdelsavio.com
GregD/OASYSCO
news:41176C00...@optonline.net:
> http://www.paypalsucks.com and http://www.paypalwarning.com Anyone
> here using Paypal to collect funds from your CD sales? Any
> problems/difficulties? TIA, RDS
Rick,
No CD sales obviously, but I have used PayPal since its first year or
thereabouts for taking and making payments for my many guitar related
auctions and later for taking CC's.
I never had a problem other than their nearly 3% commission.
You'd be surprised how many businesses now use PayPal from FenderForum to
online musics stores.
EBAY is just a marketing genuis. First they create this online auction
thing thast spawns dozens of sideline businesses from PayPal to auction
builders. Then EBAY drops their own online payment system and buys PayPal.
and now PayPal transcends mere auctions to being a force for online
shoppers of every ilk. It's possible that PayPal and associated financial
services could outstrip EBAY for revenue for these folks.
Greg
Ra
> Anyone
> here using Paypal to collect funds from your CD sales? Any
> problems/difficulties? TIA, RDS
It's very convenient to both seller and buyer for small sales like that.
Might be best to avoid it for large items, so potential problems
don't hinder the ability to use it for the small stuff,
not to mention the problems with the large items themselves.
--
best regards,
Ra
----------------------------------------------------
http://surfpick.com
Lignum Vitae
----------------------------------------------------
Ra
> It's very convenient to both seller and buyer for small sales like that.
> Might be best to avoid it for large items, so potential problems
> don't hinder the ability to use it for the small stuff,
> not to mention the problems with the large items themselves.
I should clarify that it might be advantageous to use it to PAY for larger items..
it is mainly accepting it for expensive items that can cause you the most headaches.
Rick Del Savio
They make me nervous already. RDS :) PS Hey man, let me know when your
CD arrives. TIA, RDS
--
GregD/OASYSCO
> Greg, did you read the paypalsucks site postings? and the other one?
> They make me nervous already. RDS :) PS Hey man, let me know when your
> CD arrives. TIA, RDS
Rick,
Yes, I did read them. I read them in the past, but with no other
alternative for processing CC payments, I opted to stick w/PayPal. In
any case, I do not use PayPal anymore and am closing my account as there
is no reason to keep an acct with access to my checking/savings open.
And with the class action suit, https://www.paypal.com/settlement, it
seems to appear that the charges leveled at PayPal are not without
merit.
Greg
Pt
pay for it.
Christmas came and went and I did not receive the item.
I sent the seller several emails and got no replies.
Then I reported it to both ebay and Paypal.
Several months later I got email from ebay/Paypal stating that they
could not contact the seller and that I should just chalk it up as a
loss.
They refused to pay me back and I was out $160.
I no longer use Paypal for anything.
Pt
Pete Kerezman
wrote:
>there
>is no reason to keep an acct with access to my checking/savings open
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aye, there's the rub.
Texas Pete
Ra
> I got email from ebay/Paypal stating that they
> could not contact the seller and that I should just chalk it up as a
> loss.
> They refused to pay me back and I was out $160.
> I no longer use Paypal for anything.
Don't blame you. That blows.
I lost $60 on some DVD's when I was new to eBay.
I learned from that... and have had over 900 total transactions now.
If anyone out there IS going to use paypal for anything over $20 or so,
make sure it is sent to a legitimate website,
or to a seller with a lot of feedback,
(and a rating of 99% positive, or better) before doing so.
Lumpy
> I should clarify that it might be advantageous
> to use it to PAY for larger items.. it is mainly
> accepting it for expensive items that can cause
> you the most headaches.
Why do you suggest it's a headache for more
expensive items?
I've been using PayPal as a buyer and a seller
for years. I've bought $2 items and $2000 items.
Never had a problem.
The amount of service charge you pay to use
PayPal is less than it would be if you
opened a merchant account.
Lumpy
--
In Your Ears for 40 Years
http://www.lumpymusic.com
Lumpy
> Then I reported it to both ebay and Paypal.
> Several months later I got email from
> ebay/Paypal stating that they could not
> contact the seller and that I should
> just chalk it up as a loss. They refused
Use a credit card through PayPal when buying
anything. If the seller flakes out, the CC
company will do the reversal and you're safe.
PayPal is not any LESS safe than if you would
send a seller cash or check or money order.
If the seller flakes you lose your money.
If you use some kind of reversable money,
like a CC, you're covered.
Max Leggett
<lu...@digitalcartography.com> wrote:
>Ra wrote:
>
>> I should clarify that it might be advantageous
>> to use it to PAY for larger items.. it is mainly
>> accepting it for expensive items that can cause
>> you the most headaches.
>
>Why do you suggest it's a headache for more
>expensive items?
>
>I've been using PayPal as a buyer and a seller
>for years. I've bought $2 items and $2000 items.
>Never had a problem.
>
>The amount of service charge you pay to use
>PayPal is less than it would be if you
>opened a merchant account.
>
PayPal advises you to change your password monthly, not to use a
password like 'secret', to use alpha-numeric as well as non-alpha
characters like @, %*, etc in your password. And never to respond to
an email asking for account details. I've read PayPal Sucks, and I
think that PayPal Sucks sucks. For the convenience, I think their fees
are on the high side of reasonable, but still reasonable. Merchants
pays 3-4% to credit card companies for all transactions, and I guess
I'm not going to get a free ride.
Jack Zucker
transactions for my book without any problems.
By the way, I never heard from you about my book. Have you looked through it
yet?
"Rick Del Savio" <rain...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:41176C00...@optonline.net...
Ra
> Why do you suggest it's a headache for more
> expensive items?
>
> I've been using PayPal as a buyer and a seller
> for years. I've bought $2 items and $2000 items.
> Never had a problem.
>
> The amount of service charge you pay to use
> PayPal is less than it would be if you
> opened a merchant account.
Just because you've been lucky, doesn't mean problems don't exist.
I said it's OK to use for larger amounts with established websites
and sellers with good feedback.
As for selling, it is not uncommon for a buyer to challenge the transaction.
Paypal could freeze your account for months, or simply extract the money,
without any evidence of wrongdoing on your part.
It happens every day.
I had 2 sellers who misrepresented their items and I challenged
the transactions. Both times the sellers gave me rebates,
because of the way paypal came down on them.
It's a nice feature if you're the buyer.
It's a possible way to be scammed, if you're the seller.
The scammers aren't gonna target anyone for this trick on small items.
Pt
If someone doesn't pay and cashes a postal money order it is a Federal
Offence.
I think most crooks are aware of that and will not screw around with
postal money orders.
It takes more time to send a money order but I think it is safer.
Pt
Pt
wrote:
>Just to give an alternative viewpoint, I have processed over 300 paypal
>transactions for my book without any problems.
>
>By the way, I never heard from you about my book. Have you looked through it
>yet?
>
I sent payment for your book last week.
Sorry for the delay.
I forgot about it with my recent physical problems.
I don't expect it to show up for another week or so but just for the
hell of it I just checked the mail.
And there was a brown, square envelope there.
It was "New York Minutes" by Rick Del Salvio.
Gotta go listen to it now....
Later....and THANKS Rick!!
Pt
GregD/OASYSCO
news:tiifh0h9ujprv84ka...@4ax.com:
you lucky duck. Hopefully my copy of NYM will be there when I fet home.
Greg
thom_j
"Pt" wrote:
> If someone doesn't pay and cashes a postal money order it is a Federal
> Offence.
> I think most crooks are aware of that and will not screw around with
> postal money orders.
> It takes more time to send a money order but I think it is safer.
>
> Pt
Pat I did this way before PayPal.. Yes its a Federal Offense and
it does work... When I sold my $2000-$3000 ham gear back in
the early 90s I'd only take a US Postal MO but I don't know if I
am just lucky, but I have only had one problem via eBay/PayPal
and it was equitably settled via Square Trade. So both are good
imho... datz my 2p... cheers thom_j.
--
A Short Look Into My Legacy
http://www.n2rif.com/alexis/alexis_1.htm
thomas
>
> EBAY is just a marketing genuis. First they create this online auction
> thing thast spawns dozens of sideline businesses from PayPal to auction
> builders. Then EBAY drops their own online payment system and buys PayPal.
> and now PayPal transcends mere auctions to being a force for online
> shoppers of every ilk. It's possible that PayPal and associated financial
> services could outstrip EBAY for revenue for these folks.
Genius? No. Ebay is a genius business concept being run by morons.
Buying paypal and keeping it the way it was is a no-brainer, and
I give them credit for pulling that off sucessfully.
But then they bought half.com, and are in the process
of killing it, even though it is a better program than
ebay. It takes a real fool to kill a profitable business
like that. They are basically shedding the bulk of their
book and CD business over to Amazon (and the other "A"
sites). This is stupidity of the highest order.
Max Leggett
>"GregD/OASYSCO" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<Xns9540579A...@68.1.17.6>...
>>
>> EBAY is just a marketing genuis. First they create this online auction
>> thing thast spawns dozens of sideline businesses from PayPal to auction
>> builders. Then EBAY drops their own online payment system and buys PayPal.
>> and now PayPal transcends mere auctions to being a force for online
>> shoppers of every ilk. It's possible that PayPal and associated financial
>> services could outstrip EBAY for revenue for these folks.
>
>Genius? No. Ebay is a genius business concept being run by morons.
You may not like them, but their share price over the last two years
is up about 175%, it's up 40% in the last year alone, it has a five
star rating from S&P with a target price 30% higher than today's
close. They're not morons.
>But then they bought half.com, and are in the process
>of killing it, even though it is a better program than
>ebay.
They're killing it off because it was canibalising eBay sales.
>They are basically shedding the bulk of their
>book and CD business over to Amazon (and the other "A"
>sites).
They're concentrating on what they do well, and Amazon sells books
better. No point in competing with a firm like Amazon.
>This is stupidity of the highest order.
Nothing of the sort. What's stupid is that I didn't buy their stock
two years ago even though I saw what their reach was.
Ra
is that they are more concerned with
taking care of their stockholders, than
they are with taking care of the sellers
who have made them what they are.
This is a common theme on their message boards,
that never really gets a response from them.
Roberto Flaming
@bignews6.bellsouth.net:
> My biggest complaint about eBay,
> is that they are more concerned with
> taking care of their stockholders, than
> they are with taking care of the sellers
> who have made them what they are.
The second that Ebay sold the first share of stock, they were
***required by law*** to care more about the shareholders than
about the sellers who made them what they are.
Ra
> > is that they are more concerned with
> > taking care of their stockholders, than
> > they are with taking care of the sellers
> > who have made them what they are.
> The second that Ebay sold the first share of stock, they were
> ***required by law*** to care more about the shareholders than
> about the sellers who made them what they are.
I doubt there are any clauses in that law,
requiring them to repeatedly fuck over the sellers?
Chris Mullin
"Pete Kerezman" <pete...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8h8fh09ot3n2hn6vk...@4ax.com...
I've used PayPal about 150 times without any problems. Some folks open a
checking account specifically and only for PayPal. They keep a truly small
balance. Transferring cash when they need to use a larger amount. That
limits their risk to what's in the account.
I think the convenience of paying online thru PayPal is part of what
generates sales. Some folks won't bother to make out a check, write a
letter, get an envelope ... they just don't buy something. However if they
can push a couple buttons on their PC, they go for it.
You need to consider if the potential additional income and sales outweight
the potential risks. Ebay / PayPal may help to generate sales. Would you
still end up ahead having made additional sales even if you had a problem.
BTW Rick I only got to listen to a couple of samples from your CD [so far]
... nice stuff, I really enjoyed what I heard. I'll be picking up a copy
soon. Maybe I'll be your 1st PayPal order LOL
Best of luck
Chris
Jack Zucker
care but I enjoy photography as a hobby. I have bought a fair amount of
stuff from B&H Photo (www.bhphoto.com) . They are one of the biggest photo
retailers in the country. I'd guess their business is equivalent to Guitar
Center . At any rate, I recently ordered a few filters from them and noticed
that they now accept paypal in addition to major credit cards.
To me, that says a lot. Those folks are ULTRA conservative and ULTRA
careful.
Jaz
Stan Gosnell
news:1nURc.14579$zO3....@bignews6.bellsouth.net:
> I doubt there are any clauses in that law,
> requiring them to repeatedly fuck over the sellers?
That's only in the CEO's contract.
--
Regards,
Stan
Lumpy
> ... Paypal could freeze your account for
> months, or simply extract the money, without
> any evidence of wrongdoing on your part.
Actually, they no longer have the ability to do that.
They changed their terms.
> It happens every day...
No it doesn't. It USED to happen now an then.
Perhaps in perspective, PayPal handles millions
of transactions daily without a problem. Sometimes
problems pop up. Not any different than any other
company.
We all have to do what we feel comfortable doing.
But I think that reading the few horror stories
on paypalsucks is a little alarmist.
We don't see a paypalDOESNTsuck.com because people
generally only get vocal when they have a problem.
For every user with a horror story, there are millions
of users who have had no problems at all.
thomas
>
> You may not like them, but their share price over the last two years
> is up about 175%, it's up 40% in the last year alone, it has a five
> star rating from S&P with a target price 30% higher than today's
> close. They're not morons.
Enron had a pretty good stock price for a while there too.
> >But then they bought half.com, and are in the process
> >of killing it, even though it is a better program than
> >ebay.
>
> They're killing it off because it was canibalising eBay sales.
I don't think that's true. Read the messages on Ebay's
half.com transition board. You will not find a single
seller in favor of it. The low and medium-volume sellers
are being forced to move to another website, and will not
transition to Ebay, because it just doesn't make economic
sense for them. The high-volume sellers might stick with
ebay for a while, but I predict that many of them will
move on too.
As for the cannibalizing, Ebay owns both programs.
So why would they care as to which page they make
their profit on?
> >They are basically shedding the bulk of their
> >book and CD business over to Amazon (and the other "A"
> >sites).
>
> They're concentrating on what they do well, and Amazon sells books
> better. No point in competing with a firm like Amazon.
You read the situation incorrectly. Ebay is not giving up
on bookselling. It is simply changing its strategy, in
a rather short-sighted and foolish direction. They
mistakenly think that they can compete with Amazon
using the auction model. It won't work, and they
will sell fewer books than they did with half.com.
thomas
Wiser businessmen would see that there should not be
a conflict between the two interests, if things are
set up correctly.
GregD/OASYSCO
news:7d424f23.04080...@posting.google.com:
> "GregD/OASYSCO" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:<Xns9540579A...@68.1.17.6>...
>>
>> EBAY is just a marketing genuis. First they create this online
>> auction thing thast spawns dozens of sideline businesses from PayPal
>> to auction builders. Then EBAY drops their own online payment system
>> and buys PayPal. and now PayPal transcends mere auctions to being a
>> force for online shoppers of every ilk. It's possible that PayPal and
>> associated financial services could outstrip EBAY for revenue for
>> these folks.
>
> Genius? No. Ebay is a genius business concept being run by morons.
> Buying paypal and keeping it the way it was is a no-brainer, and
> I give them credit for pulling that off sucessfully.
Well, they must be pretty smart morons to be one of only several money-
making web-based business - no storefront, no brick 'n mortar like all the
other experts said was needed to be successful with web-based sales.
I'd like to be that dumb.
Greg
GregD/OASYSCO
> My biggest complaint about eBay,
> is that they are more concerned with
> taking care of their stockholders, than
> they are with taking care of the sellers
> who have made them what they are.
>
> This is a common theme on their message boards,
> that never really gets a response from them.
>
>
>
I've been the bidder or seller on well over 200 of auctions (FB is 130) and
have never had a problem that I had to get EBAy involved with.
Greg
Ra
> Ra wrote:
> > It happens every day...
> No it doesn't. It USED to happen now an then.
> Perhaps in perspective, PayPal handles millions
> of transactions daily without a problem. Sometimes
> problems pop up. Not any different than any other
> company.
Well, paypal recently twisted the arms of two different deceptive
sellers enough that they both gave me partial rebates,
so I'd say yes, it definitely happens many times a day.
The flip side is that paypal had no evidence that I was
telling the truth about the guitars. A scammer could
just as easily use the policy to cheat a legitimate seller.
There are also shills on the ebay boards who jump on
anyone who relates a story that is critical of paypal.
I use paypal and find them very useful.
There are pitfalls though.
I am giving facts about my personal experiences,
not anecdotal horror stories that I have heard or read.
Ra
> Well, they must be pretty smart morons to be one of only several money-
> making web-based business - no storefront, no brick 'n mortar like all the
> other experts said was needed to be successful with web-based sales.
Not only that. NO inventory!
Amazon has got to store and ship a boatload of stuff every few minutes.
eBay just writes some software, maintains their servers and collects their fortune.
Pete Kerezman
<nhsixs...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >there
>> >is no reason to keep an acct with access to my checking/savings open
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Aye, there's the rub.
>>
>> Texas Pete
>
>I've used PayPal about 150 times without any problems. Some folks open a
>checking account specifically and only for PayPal. They keep a truly small
>balance. Transferring cash when they need to use a larger amount. That
>limits their risk to what's in the account.
That seems like a sensible approach.
Texas Pete
Max Leggett
I would suggest, with your in depth knowledge, that you short eBay
stock.
Ra
Someone contacted me, wanted to send me $1000 for
the 'second chance offer' that I sent them on a Martin
I had auctioned.
I sent no such offer.
Someone harvests the 'losing' bidders on auctions
and sends them 'bogus' second chance offers.
I only discovered it because this guy misplaced the offer
and contacted me through ebay.
I put warnings on my current auctions and began emailing
all bidders on recent auctions that have ended.
eBay stopped me after 2 guitars;
"you have reached your email limit for today"
I tried emailing them at sp...@ebay.com but got a message;
"we have not received your email"
Apparently, you can only 'forward' emails to that address?
I tried contacting them through a few of their message boards.
It's a dangerous world out there.
It makes me sick to think people may have sent this guy money.
In the future, I will only run 'private' auctions that conceal the ID of the bidders.
Some people dislike sellers who do this, because they feel they are
trying to hide something.. but I don't see what else I can do to protect people?
Pt
>It's a dangerous world out there.
>It makes me sick to think people may have sent this guy money.
>In the future, I will only run 'private' auctions that conceal the ID of the bidders.
>Some people dislike sellers who do this, because they feel they are
>trying to hide something.. but I don't see what else I can do to protect people?
That's a good idea.
It wouldn't bother me if the ID's were concealed.
Pt
Pete Kerezman
>Just discovered a new scam.
>
>Someone contacted me, wanted to send me $1000 for
>the 'second chance offer' that I sent them on a Martin
>I had auctioned.
>
>I sent no such offer.
>Someone harvests the 'losing' bidders on auctions
>and sends them 'bogus' second chance offers.
>
>I only discovered it because this guy misplaced the offer
>and contacted me through ebay.
>
>
>I put warnings on my current auctions and began emailing
>all bidders on recent auctions that have ended.
>eBay stopped me after 2 guitars;
>"you have reached your email limit for today"
>
>I tried emailing them at sp...@ebay.com but got a message;
>"we have not received your email"
>
>Apparently, you can only 'forward' emails to that address?
>I tried contacting them through a few of their message boards.
>
>
>It's a dangerous world out there.
>It makes me sick to think people may have sent this guy money.
>In the future, I will only run 'private' auctions that conceal the ID of the bidders.
>Some people dislike sellers who do this, because they feel they are
>trying to hide something.. but I don't see what else I can do to protect people?
What puzzles me is that these scammers probably work harder at that
than do honest folks with regular jobs.
Texas Pete
Ra
> >In the future, I will only run 'private' auctions that conceal the ID of the bidders.
> >Some people dislike sellers who do this, because they feel they are
> >trying to hide something.. but I don't see what else I can do to protect people?
> That's a good idea.
> It wouldn't bother me if the ID's were concealed.
> Pt
Me neither.. but evidentally, a lot of people view it with suspicion.
Someone on the ebay message boards already told me that they won't
bid if I do that.
You can't afford to lose any bids in an auction for expensive guitars.
You need at least two bidders, or someone can get the guitar for the reserve price,
even if their proxy bid was $1000 above the reserve.
I may have to settle for big bold warnings in the auction description?
They will probably deter the scammers anyway, sending them
to do their dirty work on auctions that are less well guarded.
thomas
> >
> > Genius? No. Ebay is a genius business concept being run by morons.
> > Buying paypal and keeping it the way it was is a no-brainer, and
> > I give them credit for pulling that off sucessfully.
>
> Well, they must be pretty smart morons to be one of only several money-
> making web-based business - no storefront, no brick 'n mortar like all the
> other experts said was needed to be successful with web-based sales.
Like I said, they have a genius concept, but they are slowly
running it into the ground. There are other auction websites,
and if Ebay keeps moving in their favorite directions, they
are going to keep losing more and more business to the competitors.
Ra
"thomas" wrote
> Like I said, they have a genius concept, but they are slowly
> running it into the ground. There are other auction websites,
> and if Ebay keeps moving in their favorite directions, they
> are going to keep losing more and more business to the competitors.
Frustrated people keep trying the other auctions ( Yahoo )
... but they are deadsville. I've tried them myself.
Last year, eBay dropped out of the Japanese auction arena..
because they couldn't compete with Yahoo there!
Yahoo had a head start there.. and that seems to mean everything.
thom_j
> I may have to settle for big bold warnings in the auction description?
> They will probably deter the scammers anyway, sending them
> to do their dirty work on auctions that are less well guarded.
Or it just may drive them on more as these dudes are arrogantly
egomaniacal. Its like having a hot'totty flashing herself in front of
a bunch inmates who aint had none nor seen it for decades.. it'll
have them rippin' the bars down! yeowie.. 8^)'... ex'con tee'.
Jack Zucker
a money order for $500 more than the sale amount when I post something on
Harmony-Central.
"thom_j" <thom_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:UvmdnQPEw-4...@comcast.com...
Ra
> Or it just may drive them on more as these dudes are arrogantly
> egomaniacal. Its like having a hot'totty flashing herself in front of
> a bunch inmates who aint had none nor seen it for decades.. it'll
> have them rippin' the bars down! yeowie.. 8^)'... ex'con tee'.
To get back to the other scam, for a moment..
( I'm starting to feel like fucking Columbo )
The Super 400 seller sent me the eBay invoice ( I never even bid! )
It's a woman and this supposed French seller gave me an address
to send the western union payment to, in Italy:
Alexis Kobylko
Piazza Leonardo Da Vinci,32
Milano,20133
Italy
I forwarded it to eBay's spoof department. ( also filed a separate report earlier )
I hope they can work with European authorities to snag these bastards?
Lumpy
> Just discovered a new scam.
>
> Someone contacted me, wanted to send me $1000 for
> the 'second chance offer' that I sent them on a Martin
> I had auctioned.
>
> I sent no such offer.
> Someone harvests the 'losing' bidders on auctions
> and sends them 'bogus' second chance offers.
That's a frequently discussed scam in the
eBay discussion boards. The scammers send
the same 'second chance offers' to millions of
people that have never even dealt with eBay.
Similar scams have been going on for years.
Huge corporate accounts payable dept receives
a bill for "1000 widgets, total cost $978.50".
The biller has never done business with the
big corporation. The big corp processes so
many payables that they sometimes pay the
invoice without verifying that they did
indeed get the widgets.
Ra
> Similar scams have been going on for years.
> Huge corporate accounts payable dept receives
> a bill for "1000 widgets, total cost $978.50".
> The biller has never done business with the
> big corporation. The big corp processes so
> many payables that they sometimes pay the
> invoice without verifying that they did
> indeed get the widgets.
Yeah, I've gotten similar mail myself.
I don't doubt that massive corporations send payment
without even realizing it's a fraud.
The bureaucracy can be overwhelming.
Reminds me of beyond.com
They went bankrupt about 2 years ago.
I got some commisions from them and get a constant flow of
legal documents regarding the bankrupcy.
I got 2 more letters from them just today.
As for the Super 400 scammer.
I tracked down some kind of legal commisioner in Italy
and forwarded the address of the scammer.
Pt
>"Lumpy" wrote
>
>
>
>> Similar scams have been going on for years.
>> Huge corporate accounts payable dept receives
>> a bill for "1000 widgets, total cost $978.50".
>> The biller has never done business with the
>> big corporation. The big corp processes so
>> many payables that they sometimes pay the
>> invoice without verifying that they did
>> indeed get the widgets.
>
>
>Yeah, I've gotten similar mail myself.
Widgets must be getting popular.
Pt