George Benson, Earl Klugh, Jimmy Hendrix.
Kenneth Akoh-Arrey
they released their "Colaboration" CD. They were asked what they thought of
the fabulous late Jimmi Hendrix. Needles to say that it was a novice asking
this question. George and Earl looked at each other a little bit and cooly
responded, "Well, he was one of the first African American guitarist to
cross-over to White America". That was the whole answer. Nothing was spoken
to his perceived super talent, which is mostly perceived by the very White
America who keep bringing up his name as an almighty guitarist.
It just seems some people cannot let go those childhood faint memories.
Jimmy Hendrix, the blues guitarist (IMO) left no very memorable music to the
public, and that which would come to mind when you think of him, so what's
the deal? Jimmi stood out, without a doubt, for what he did, but was that
enough to lay his talent against numerous Jazz Guitarists of today and
yesterday? It's one thing to hear novices glorify him buts it's another to
hear members of this NG. It's all my opinion, however, but the subtle
reponse from George and Earl proved me no wrong. What's yours?
JP
I'll be interested to read the answers to this inflamatory post.
As a guitarist..Hendrix has always been considered hallowed ground.
Was it his attitude..his "wall of sound"..his use of feedback...
explosive showmanship???
I don't know.
I've heard some great Hendrix..heard copious amounts of average
Hendrix....heard some bad Hendrix.
What to say? He was great, he brings up great memories.
But Bensons Cookbook, Uptown, or Tal Farlows even..pat Martino...
they did for me..and they took it further in different ways. And this was
som much earlier than Jimmy.
Maybe he revolutionised an attiude...certainly didnt revolutionise music.
I love All Along the Watchtower....no better statement around for the idiom.
Have i been political enough? Have i tempered the response...i hope so.
Yours was so "in your face" :)
but you know....deep down...i agree with yer! So let me stand next to your
fire. Im on your side.
John
Kenneth Akoh-Arrey <ATA...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:WeUu7.64183$W8.18...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Brian Wood
for Benson and Klugh, but I can't imagine they meant that comment to as a
slam against Jimi.
I understand what you're getting at. There were black guitarists deserving
recognition way before Hendrix hit the scene. Because he was the first one
to cross over to white America, we can't fault him for that. The blame
would have to be a societal thing....way too involved and deep to go into on
a guitar newsgroup.
It's not just white guitarists who revere Hendrix either....Miles Davis was
one of his biggest fans, rumor was they were to do a collaboration before
Jimi unexpectedly died. We all know Miles was not a huge fan of "White
America." Carlos Santana was another "non-white" musician who loved Jimi.
The list goes on from there.
Again, to compare him and his (very short)life's work against a "true"
blues or jazz musician is extremely unfair. I personally know many black
musicians in Chicago, who play in all different kinds of genres who love
Jimi. Instead of faulting him for being the first black guitar player to
cross-over, why not think of all the others who came after him, those who
had it maybe just a bit of an easier time of it, because the barriers were
slightly broken down.
Brian Wood
"Kenneth Akoh-Arrey" <ATA...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:WeUu7.64183$W8.18...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Greg
Everybody's entitled to their opinion.
Shane
Scofield, McLaughlan (the list goes on but it's not the point). It's all
part of this innovation thing that every Jazz player talks about but seldom
achieve.
I bought a Jazz book years ago that analysed Hendrix's Hey Joe solo next to
Django and Kessel solos. I'm just waiting for the tapes of Miles Davis with
Jimi Hendrix that were never released at the time, but are rumored to be
released in the future.
I can respect your opinions, but this I don't agree with.
Shane.
"Kenneth Akoh-Arrey" <ATA...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:WeUu7.64183$W8.18...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Thom j.
Jimi died entirely too early. {Sadly many did in the 60s-70s} I was
lucky enough to be in an upfront group when Jimi and many came
to Philly-NYC in the 60s.. I for one know that this man could play
anything! The wild' 60s hard rock that Jimi played was only a tiny
"smatter"-[if you will]- of what he could do.
I wont go into a long boring dissertation of the 60s but if Jimi had
lived many would realize his true abilities and what he would have
contributed to music [past & present] but sadly it is a moot point
now!
Jimi was doing a lot of so called 'Jazz' work. He was suppose to
work on a collaboration with Miles D and other Jazz greats but I
guess it wasnt meant to be. If anyone is really interested in some
of his un-released music I'm sure there are sites' on the web that
have them but of course his "Would-of Could-of" works are all
only conjecture now. Meaning, we will just really never know as
again, he died too early for us to find out his true capibilities.
-Thom_j.
"Brian Wood" <brianwo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:FZUu7.27474$My2.14...@news1.mntp1.il.home.com...
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.282 / Virus Database: 150 - Release Date: 9/25/2001
Kevin Van Sant
<ATA...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
<WeUu7.64183$W8.18...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> :
His *talent* would stand up with just about any artist of any medium
that you could name.
But I don't think of Hendrix the least bit as a jazz guitarist or even
a guitarist who ever played jazz, why would I want to try to compare
him with jazz guitarists?
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
jazz guitar
http://www.onestopjazz.com/kvansant
to buy my CDs, listen to sound clips, and get more info.
http://www.onestopjazz.com
for a comprehensive index of internet jazz resources
Kevin Van Sant
wrote in message <uSYu7.96339$5A3.27...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> :
>I wont go into a long boring dissertation of the 60s but if Jimi had
>lived many would realize his true abilities and what he would have
>contributed to music [past & present] but sadly it is a moot point
>now!
>Jimi was doing a lot of so called 'Jazz' work. He was suppose to
>work on a collaboration with Miles D and other Jazz greats but I
>guess it wasnt meant to be. If anyone is really interested in some
>of his un-released music I'm sure there are sites' on the web that
>have them but of course his "Would-of Could-of" works are all
>only conjecture now. Meaning, we will just really never know as
>again, he died too early for us to find out his true capibilities.
>-Thom_j.
To me, as great of a player as he was, I still think his greatest
artistic accomplishments were his studio recordings. He was an
incredible songwriter and song crafter. His musical vision was only
complete IMO when he was able to fully texture his songs in the
studio. I'm not saying that his songs and playing didn't stand up on
their own, they did, what I mean is that I think his real genius was
in crafting his art in the studio to produce amazing works such as
Electric Ladyland and Axis: Bold as Love.
As for what he might have done if he lived longer, I think he would
have had to have some sort of life transformation like Coltrane did in
order to take his art to the next level. From what I've read Hendrix
himself was frustrated toward the end feeling like he was stuck in an
artist purgatory of sorts. His lifestyle was probably holding him
back. Had he lived and broken free, who knows?
Martin Porto
And then you tell us how it feels.
I seriously doubt who can't listen how much music there's in Jimmy's music
can listen how much music there's in Jim Hall music.
I don't give a shit if your name is George Benson, sometimes I hate jazz
or... what people left of it.
mARTin
"Kevin Van Sant" <kvan...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:n1nort0jfe9crm8go...@4ax.com...
Rick R.
Kevin Van Sant wrote in message ...
>But I don't think of Hendrix the least bit as a jazz guitarist or even
>a guitarist who ever played jazz, why would I want to try to compare
>him with jazz guitarists?
>
you mean you weren't at that Jim Hall gig where he sets his 175 on fire?
teleplayer
he would have had the same effect had he used a paintbrush or a chisel.
Listen to Little Wing or Burning of the Midnight Lamp... simply beautiful.
You have completely missed the point. I pity people like you. You think
it's all about comparison. You think just because someone is a virtuoso on
an instrument they should get a bunch of credit? Obviously the two
guitarists you mention are "technically" better players. But, SO WHAT? The
bottom line is what do you do with the MUSIC. Does it affect people? Does
it challenge them? Does it change them? IMO, those are the things that
make great art. There where probably "technically" better sculpters than
Michelangelo, but none of them created art like the "Pieta" ot "David," that
moved people. There is much more to music than technical ability. I can't
believe that something so elementery has to be explained on this newsgroup.
Lastly, why do you care? What do you care what people think of Hendrix?
Are you jealous because your guitar "heroes" don't get as much credit as you
think they deserve?
"Kenneth Akoh-Arrey" <ATA...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:WeUu7.64183$W8.18...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Jay Carlson
rather listen to most of Hendrix's work, over that of Benson or (eeuuuuchhh,
that other guy, please don't mention him again). I know George is a
talented bopper when he wants to be, but still.... Jimi had the tools to go
a lot farther in music, too bad it didn't work out. But hey- that goes for
a lot of my favorite players who are still alive- I wish Clapton, Gilmour,
Knopfler ( I don't know why I just named off three Brits and no Americans,
but I like their sensitivity and phrasing)- anyway, I wish they and others
would hurry up and learn how to play over changes better so I can love their
playing even more. I know they have the mind for it, if they would just put
in a little time, I for one would love to hear it. I'd be happy to offer
'em lessons. That's it- the next time Clapton rolls in here on his yacht,
which he does a couple times a year, I'll walk on board and offer him guitar
lessons. Maybe at least I'll get a tour of the yacht.
Jay
Joe Finn
particular idiom. His influence upon generations of rockers would be hard to
overstate. Jimi didn't consider himself to be a jazz player. The question
the interviewer put to Benson and Klugh is therefore naive, awkward and off
the mark. A good interviewer would go a little easier on the apples and
oranges sort of questions. ...joe
--
Visit me on the web. www.JoeFinn.net
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Joe Finn
news:3bbc6944$0$74406$e2e...@nntp.cts.com...
And let Jim Hall take over
That's what I'm talkin' about....
yeah, yeah
Bob Russell
> It just seems some people cannot let go those childhood faint memories.
> Jimmy Hendrix, the blues guitarist (IMO) left no very memorable music to the
> public,
(snip)
Gee, I don't know about that. I still remember a lot of his music, and
apparently so do a lot of other people... (While we're on the subject, what
have George and Earl left us lately?)
> Jimmi stood out, without a doubt, for what he did, but was that
> enough to lay his talent against numerous Jazz Guitarists of today and
> yesterday?
I'm not aware of any particular effort (other than yours) to "lay his talent
against" any jazz guitarists in particular. If it bothers you, don't do it.
> It's one thing to hear novices glorify him buts it's another to
> hear members of this NG.
Well, let's see, then: not only novices but experienced jazz musicians as
well seem to think ol' Jimi had something going on. Maybe that should tell
you something...?
> It's all my opinion, however, but the subtle
> reponse from George and Earl proved me no wrong. What's yours?
Mine is that Jimi Hendrix was a visionary musician whose skills ran far
deeper than his guitar playing. I would consider it a waste of time to
compare him to George Benson or Earl Klugh.
-- Bob Russell
http://www.uncwil.edu/people/russellr
Bob Russell
> Oh, move over Rover
>
> And let Jim Hall take over
>
> That's what I'm talkin' about....
> yeah, yeah
Thanks, Joe. I'll never hear that song the same way again... :)
Jonathan Byrd
>
> It's not just white guitarists who revere Hendrix either....Miles Davis was
> one of his biggest fans, rumor was they were to do a collaboration before
> Jimi unexpectedly died. We all know Miles was not a huge fan of "White
> America."
Not that it seriously refutes your argument, but let us not forget that
Miles was also a fan of white pop group Scritti Politti.
--
Jonathan Byrd Computer Software Engineering Technology
j...@isu.edu Idaho State University
(208) 282-4256 Pocatello, Idaho USA
Jonathan Byrd
>
> Well, compose tunes as Third Stone From The Sun, Hey Joe etc...
>
> And then you tell us how it feels.
I've seen "Hey Joe" credited to a couple of different people, neither of
whom is Jimi Hendrix.
Bob Russell
> I've seen "Hey Joe" credited to a couple of different people, neither of
> whom is Jimi Hendrix.
Yeah, I don't think Hendrix wrote that one. But does anyone remember the
original version?
Jonathan Byrd
people think Jimi Hendrix was so wonderful. I'm still trying to hear
his influence in all the players he is said to have influenced.
To my ears, Hendrix had a relaxed guitar technique that occasionally
bordered on sloppiness. I can only listen to a limited amount of it
before I get bored. His self-accompanied guitar/vocal style was
something that had been done many times by blues players all over. Only
a few of the songs Hendrix composed seem very memorable to me. Maybe
someday I'll hear something new in there, but so far I don't. I haven't
closed my mind, but am not holding my breath, either.
Tom Walls
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
http://www.arts.cornell.edu/zeus/
Rick R.
Bob Russell wrote in message ...
(While we're on the subject, what
>have George and Earl left us lately?)
when they're young, pure, and playing the killer shit and starving to death
no one pays attention..
once they've made a few $$$...it's..hey! where are these guys?
I love it! :)
Doug Allen
>Because he was the first one to cross over to
>white America..
Historically, Chuck Berry made the cross over prior to Jimi. CB was very
popular, sold many records, appeared on TV shows and in movies, played
R&R concerts; the consumers were mostly white fans.
Tom Walls
bobrus...@hotmail.com says...
fronted Quicksilver Messenger Service, but I think the first version to
have a commercial impact was by The Leaves. Love covered it right away.
Martin Porto
no problem was in the songwriting dept.
mARTin
"Tom Walls" <tw...@REMOVEcornell.edu> wrote in message
news:MPG.162656a06...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu...
Tom Walls
NOSPAMma...@worldnet.att.net says...
> Whatever, I only know Hendrix version, and if were something were Jimmy has
> no problem was in the songwriting dept.
>
> mARTin
>
It's a hallmark of modern composition; surpassed only by "Louie, Louie".
;<)
Mike Healy
><ATA...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
><WeUu7.64183$W8.18...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> :
>
>>I watched an interview of George Benson and Earl Klugh a while back after
>>they released their "Colaboration" CD. They were asked what they thought of
>>the fabulous late Jimmi Hendrix. Needles to say that it was a novice asking
>>this question. George and Earl looked at each other a little bit and cooly
>>responded, "Well, he was one of the first African American guitarist to
>>cross-over to White America". That was the whole answer. Nothing was spoken
>>to his perceived super talent, which is mostly perceived by the very White
>>America who keep bringing up his name as an almighty guitarist.
>>
>> It just seems some people cannot let go those childhood faint memories.
>>Jimmy Hendrix, the blues guitarist (IMO) left no very memorable music to the
>>public, and that which would come to mind when you think of him, so what's
>>the deal? Jimmi stood out, without a doubt, for what he did, but was that
>>enough to lay his talent against numerous Jazz Guitarists of today and
>>yesterday? It's one thing to hear novices glorify him buts it's another to
>>hear members of this NG. It's all my opinion, however, but the subtle
>>reponse from George and Earl proved me no wrong. What's yours?
>
OTOH, it seems to me that Benson and Klugh have had no discernable
influences on blues and rock. No big deal since they play other
genres. I have never heard Jimi touted as an influential jazz
guitarist. It's apples and oranges. I don't really get the need
people have to rank and compare musicians anyway. The important
question to me is "Are they making good music?", not "Is their
music better than [insert artist to be disparaged here]?"
Mike Healy
Mike Healy
col...@dellepro.com
news:3BBC85CA...@isu.edu...
> I have a few of his recordings, and I'm still trying to hear what makes
> people think Jimi Hendrix was so wonderful.
I've always heard it was that he made all those sounds with just his Fender
Twin Reverb and Strat. If nothing else, Hendrix created the market for all
the various electronic effect boxes which are now considered standard
equipment for rockers.
-Colin
Max Leggett
>>>Jimmy Hendrix, the blues guitarist (IMO) left no very memorable music to the
to ascribe motive. Oh well. It's usenet, after all.
Want a couple of killer guitarists? Sharon Isben and Manitas de Plata.
Magnificent. Neither of them have made the least mark on jazz. Hendrix
was a blues musician par excellence. So is BB King. So what? Ever
heard Benson's version of the Bach lute suites?
Brian Wood
music, he had a friend of his set up private instruction with someone at
Juliard that this friend knew. He very well may have gone in a jazz
direction...I wasn't there obviously, but from what I've heard, the scene in
the late 60's was pretty open....experimentation was encouraged....you were
also encouraged to experiment musically ;)
I really don't even get the point of comparing these people. Someone
mentioned in a post that they agreed with the original poster, that they
were more taken with Martino, Farlow, etc. I would bet that would apply to
most of us here. But that doesn't mean we can't enjoy and respect Hendrix
for what it was.
I do agree with you Kevin that the studio is where he did his greatest
things, but my favorite Hendrix record is "Band of Gypsies."
It's fun to speculate on what he would have done, but only he really knew
for sure. I must thank the original poster though...it inspired me to get
out my Hendrix records I haven't listened to in a long time.
Brian Woodnews:bpnortokvog98lo5g...@4ax.com...
Thom j.
studio work hear on the eastcoast & I was lucky enough to see
him from time to time. Your point about his lifestyle is spoton!
I felt this was his main drawback at the end & a big part of his
frustration! He was just coming into an entire new phase of his
life but his old ways with drugs seemed to be the monkey that
he just couldnt get off his back. We all know the end result.
Yes, he was not a jazz purerist but Jimi was laying down new
tracks that would put a smile on Wes, Charlie, Miles & many
more! Also yes I'm bias as I was one of the lucky few to see
& be with him, even as short & seldom as it was! :) Jimi just
had that special thing that many [like myself] pray to acquire!
jmho.. -Thom_j.
P.S. an old joke we shared, There only 3 great lefty guitarist
Hendrix, McCartney & me but I ain't sure about Hendrix &
McCartney? :) Yea I know its hoakie..lol
"Kevin Van Sant" <kvan...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:bpnortokvog98lo5g...@4ax.com...
Thom j.
it too! Another great guy and I think he hasnt picked up the "I am"
thing as he was always super nice to everyone he met! :) -Thom_j.
| 'em lessons. That's it- the next time Clapton rolls in here on his yacht,
| which he does a couple times a year, I'll walk on board and offer him
guitar
| lessons. Maybe at least I'll get a tour of the yacht.
| Jay
Thom j.
"Jonathan Byrd" <j...@isu.edu> wrote in message
news:3BBC82B8...@isu.edu...
Thom j.
| OTOH, it seems to me that Benson and Klugh have had no discernable
| influences on blues and rock. No big deal since they play other
| genres. I have never heard Jimi touted as an influential jazz
| guitarist. It's apples and oranges. I don't really get the need
| people have to rank and compare musicians anyway. The important
| question to me is "Are they making good music?", not "Is their
| music better than [insert artist to be disparaged here]?"
|
| Mike Healy
Johnny Asia
<brianwo...@yahoo.com> wrotg:
> It's not just white guitarists who revere Hendrix either....Miles Davis was
>one of his biggest fans, rumor was they were to do a collaboration before
>Jimi unexpectedly died. >>
I read an interview of Larry Coryell years ago, he said that Jimi
played "some of the best jazz music" he ever heard, at late night
jam sessions.
+
Johnny Asia, Guitarist from the Future
http://www.mp3.com/johnnyasia
Kevin Van Sant
<NOSPAMma...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
<_tZu7.35521$3d2.1...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> :
>
>I seriously doubt who can't listen how much music there's in Jimmy's music
>can listen how much music there's in Jim Hall music.
Can you please rephrase that? I think I probably know what you're
trying to say but reading that sentence makes my brain hurt.
>I don't give a shit if your name is George Benson, sometimes I hate jazz
>or... what people left of it.
I think the way this particular Benson/Klugh quote was presented to us
out of context has probably misrepresented whatever it was they were
trying to say. I can't claim to know, but I doubt they would be
dissing Jimi.
Kevin Van Sant
message <3bbc9...@news1.prserv.net> :
I don't mean any disrespect but I don't think that understanding
Hendrix's genius is something that comes from hearing about it or
reading about it. You listen to him and either you hear it yourself
or you don't.
Kevin Van Sant
<bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
<B7E1F924.E1A2%bobrus...@hotmail.com> :
> (While we're on the subject, what
>have George and Earl left us lately?)
What George left me about 14 months ago is still kicking me in the
ass.
Patrick L.
But I think you can safely say that Hendrix was to rock what Montgomery was
to jazz.
Innovators with one helluva lot of soul.
But on the side of personal taste, I always side with the softer sounding
guitar.
Patrick L.
Mike Healy
>>news:3BBC85CA...@isu.edu...
>>> I have a few of his recordings, and I'm still trying to hear what makes
>>> people think Jimi Hendrix was so wonderful.
>>
>>
>>I've always heard it was that he made all those sounds with just his Fender
>>Twin Reverb and Strat. If nothing else, Hendrix created the market for all
>>the various electronic effect boxes which are now considered standard
>>equipment for rockers.
Hendrix used a variety of amps and effects. He did help create the
market for effects through his use of wahs, phasers, fuzz, octave
dividers, etc.
Mike Healy
Bob Russell
> What George left me about 14 months ago is still kicking me in the
> ass.
I wish he'd leave some of it on a new straightahead record. I'd buy it.
Bob Russell
For the record, I was definitely paying attention when George Benson was
"young, pure",etc. I still think he's a terrifying jazz player. I'd love to
hear him do it again - on an entire record, no vocals, no orchestras, just
him burning it up in a small group. He's made plenty of money by now; he
could afford to throw us a bone. The production cost would be chump change
compared to his recent projects. Maybe he just doesn't feel that strongly
about recording straightahead stuff now, who knows?
I only made the quoted comment because the original poster made some
statement implying that Jimi Hendrix hadn't left us any "memorable music". I
realize that people may define "memorable" differently, but "Purple Haze" or
"Third Stone From the Sun" seem pretty memorable to me.
Michael Ellenberger
> people think Jimi Hendrix was so wonderful. I'm still trying to hear
> his influence in all the players he is said to have influenced.
What have you listened to closely? You can't just listen to Jimi, I think
you need to listen to the overall sound of the band, recording, etc. as a
whole. Also, because so much water has gone under the bridge since his
first recording came out, you have to put it in context. When "Are You
Experienced" came out there was nothing like it or in the same league in
that genre. Of course that was close to 40 years ago... Ugh. I was in high
school.
>
> To my ears, Hendrix had a relaxed guitar technique that occasionally
> bordered on sloppiness.
A lot of this had to do with his life style. His live recordings vary
greatly in quality. Part of his show was playing with his teeth, behind his
head, between his legs, etc. The crowd expected the show.
I can only listen to a limited amount of it
> before I get bored.
That's ok. I feel that way about plenty of music and this would include
some Hendrix cuts too.
His self-accompanied guitar/vocal style was
> something that had been done many times by blues players all over. Only
> a few of the songs Hendrix composed seem very memorable to me. Maybe
> someday I'll hear something new in there, but so far I don't. I haven't
> closed my mind, but am not holding my breath, either.
You may never get Hendrix or maybe you will. Keep trying.
Mike
--
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mike Ellenberger
Listen to some soundclips at
http://home.att.net/~grumpmeister/MikesJazzPage.html
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
thomas
> artistic accomplishments were his studio recordings. He was an
> incredible songwriter and song crafter. His musical vision was only
> complete IMO when he was able to fully texture his songs in the
> studio. I'm not saying that his songs and playing didn't stand up on
> their own, they did, what I mean is that I think his real genius was
> in crafting his art in the studio to produce amazing works such as
> Electric Ladyland and Axis: Bold as Love.
Yes, those are both five-star albums for anyone who can appreciate
rock music and rock guitar playing. To criticize them is just to say
that you don't like rock. Hendrix was a genius in his realm, and it's
meaningless to compare him to beboppers.
Rick R.
George..he was a burnin' buckaroo..but, now..well.....George, Earl
et.al...may not be as creatively free as we might think..contractual
constraints may hamper the "bone" you seek..life gets complicated when the
$$$$ flow..
Paul Sanwald
listen, you may really dig it.
--paul
Jonathan Byrd <j...@isu.edu> wrote in message news:<3BBC85CA...@isu.edu>...
> I have a few of his recordings, and I'm still trying to hear what makes
> people think Jimi Hendrix was so wonderful. I'm still trying to hear
> his influence in all the players he is said to have influenced.
>
> To my ears, Hendrix had a relaxed guitar technique that occasionally
> bordered on sloppiness. I can only listen to a limited amount of it
> before I get bored. His self-accompanied guitar/vocal style was
Frank Hudson
ATA...@worldnet.att.net says...
> It just seems some people cannot let go those childhood faint memories.
> Jimmy Hendrix, the blues guitarist (IMO) left no very memorable music to the
> the deal? Jimmi stood out, without a doubt, for what he did, but was that
> enough to lay his talent against numerous Jazz Guitarists of today and
> yesterday? It's one thing to hear novices glorify him buts it's another to
> hear members of this NG. It's all my opinion, however, but the subtle
> reponse from George and Earl proved me no wrong. What's yours?
IMHO: Rating musicians is at best a entertaining pass-time with no real
merit beyond that.
A few months back one of the jazz mags got into similar riff about "Is
Hendrix a Jazz Musician" or something to the effect. Well somebody cares
about the answer to this I suppose, but I don't. I love a hell of a lot
of music that's been called "jazz", but it's just a label, a word about
music. Five jazz experts will have six opinions on what jazz is. Hendrix
was a musician. So's Jim Hall. So's Segovia. So the cat down the street
who can just about play three chords and so's John Lee Hooker with his
one chord. Music either moves you or it doesn't. Like all art it either
transfers emotion and beauty and those things that humans can feel, or
it doesn't. Jimi has done that for me, maybe he doesn't do that for you.
You're probably getting it somewhere else. So be it.
Influence wise (this is more quantifiable than art) he's a giant. I hear
his playing inside the work of hundreds of musicians, some of whom
probably haven't even heard Hendrix.
-Frank Hudson
remove the "x" when replying
Web page with sound samples and the "So You Want to Buy A Guitar FAQ":
http://www.users.uswest.net/~fhudson/
Martin Porto
mARTin
"Frank Hudson" <fhu...@xuswest.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1626b71a5...@news.qwest.net...
Kenneth Akoh-Arrey
great guitar work. I just couldn't be so pro-jazz guitar and at the same
time appreciate sloppiness, and find talent in extensive string bending, wah
wah effects, an awful voice, playing with the teeth, behind the back and all
the other you know what, as the ultimate expression of guitar talent. Maybe
I should only view this as an art form, like HIP HOP, having nothing to do
with real guitar heroics, as I see it.
IMO, I don't think it matters very much whether rock or jazz or what,
because I think people mostly look for the same common attributes, though
may not be entirely, when superb guitarists are discussed. I am still
listening. In his video, Eric Johnson refers to a Hendrix song " Are you
experienced", as his best choice of Hendrix's. I bought it and I'm still
trying to be captivated. It's been four years since. Anyway!!!!.
It must not be too easy to separate showmanship from sep
"Kenneth Akoh-Arrey" <ATA...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:WeUu7.64183$W8.18...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I watched an interview of George Benson and Earl Klugh a while back after
> they released their "Colaboration" CD. They were asked what they thought
of
> the fabulous late Jimmi Hendrix. Needles to say that it was a novice
asking
> this question. George and Earl looked at each other a little bit and cooly
> responded, "Well, he was one of the first African American guitarist to
> cross-over to White America". That was the whole answer. Nothing was
spoken
> to his perceived super talent, which is mostly perceived by the very
White
> America who keep bringing up his name as an almighty guitarist.
>
Tim Berens
people who usually lurk to post.
Tim
Tim Berens records for Red Mark Records
Sound clips on Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004RC22/102-7001331-0566459
col...@dellepro.com
> I don't mean any disrespect but I don't think that understanding
> Hendrix's genius is something that comes from hearing about it or
> reading about it. You listen to him and either you hear it yourself
> or you don't.
>
> _________________________________________
> Kevin Van Sant
> jazz guitar
It wasn't my best phrasing. I grew up in Seattle in the 60's and 70's. It
would have been pretty much impossible for me *not* to have had many
opportunities to listen to Hendrix.
I was speaking in terms of second hand knowledge because I didn't want to
come across like a know-it-all. I don't have first hand knowledge of
exactly what effects Hendrix had access to, but common sense tells me that
there wasn't a lot to choose from in those days. Pushing the gain, phase
mis-match, reverb, wah-wah...that's about it. The rest was Jimi. I do
believe that he worked intimately with his recording people to create
effects in the studio, but the subject is his actual playing, not something
spliced into tape.
My point was that many guitarists who came after Hendrix, and imitate
Hendrix's sound (whether they realize they are doing so, or not) access this
sound primarily through the use of all kinds of effects boxes. And, in
saying this, I'm not complaining about guitarists today (which would be a
rather silly complaint, almost as silly as comparing Hendrix to George
Benson) but, instead, I'm getting at the idea that Hendrix created the
sound, and in so doing, he created the market for all those effects. And,
so, in reply to the poster who asked what is so special about Hendrix,
*that* is what I find remarkable about him. Do a Google search for "Hendrix
and special effects." You don't get tons of articles about his use of
special effects, you get tons of sites selling electronic devices that'll
give you the Hendrix sound.
And, btw, I didn't sense any disrespect from your post.
Colin
Jonathan Byrd
>
> What have you listened to closely? You can't just listen to Jimi, I think
> you need to listen to the overall sound of the band, recording, etc. as a
> whole.
I've mostly listened to Are You Experienced. I got a "best of" CD as a
gift, but since it duplicates some of the material on Are You
Experienced, I lent it out (wish I could remember to whom). I tend to
prefer original albums over "best of" compilations.
> You may never get Hendrix or maybe you will. Keep trying.
Whenever lots of people I respect think highly of something I don't
particulary like, it makes me wonder what they see that I don't.
The fact is that I really don't know the musical history of that period
well enough to appreciate who did what. Without knowing what the other
players were doing around that time, I can't really distinguish one
person's contribution from another's. It's hard to learn about that
stuff... people who write about popular music and culture (especially of
the Vietnam era) often engage in a sort of reification that obscures the
actual context in which the artist worked.
Jonathan Byrd
>
> Influence wise (this is more quantifiable than art) he's a giant. I hear
> his playing inside the work of hundreds of musicians, some of whom
> probably haven't even heard Hendrix.
Could you please suggest some specific examples? It would really help
me to grasp what Hendrix did.
Max Leggett
>
>Whenever lots of people I respect think highly of something I don't
>particulary like, it makes me wonder what they see that I don't.
>
Why worry? There's no law that says you have to like Hendrix. I do,
but so what? There's probably lots of music you like that I don't.
Recently I posted that, based on Train and Nashville, the only two
Frissel CDs I have, I don't think much of Bill Frissel. Other people
rave about him, and I am more than willing to agree that they may have
better information than I do, but I don't care. There are stylistic
vagaries all over jazz, and all over all music, and, unless the
Taliban have taken over, there's no law that says we have to
particularly like any particular style. I can perfectly understand
Benson and Klugh rolling their eyes at a question about Hendrix. Great
played, but different team.
Kevin Van Sant
in message <3BBDE5BB...@isu.edu> :
>The fact is that I really don't know the musical history of that period
>well enough to appreciate who did what. Without knowing what the other
>players were doing around that time, I can't really distinguish one
>person's contribution from another's. It's hard to learn about that
>stuff... people who write about popular music and culture (especially of
>the Vietnam era) often engage in a sort of reification that obscures the
>actual context in which the artist worked.
>--
Personally I don't think Axis: Bold as Love or Electric Ladyland need
any context at all to apreciate. If you can listen to those records
without being amazed then no amount of context is going to help you
get it.
You mentioned listening to Are You Experienced, try these two.
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
jazz guitar
http://www.onestopjazz.com/kvansant
Thom j.
fwiw,
I dont know how much you do or dont know about the beginning era
of Hendrix, so called hard-acid rock etc. but Jimi basically only used
a wah pedal, his guitar & was a 'master' of distortion by just working
his Strat with & against the amplifier aka speaker cabinets!
When I first saw what he did "on-stage" I almost dropped my guitar
besides my lower jaw...lol In the studio you also must remember the
stuff used was quite crude' back then. Sound-on-Sound was new to
all. So in regards to his "Wild sounds" again, it was more technique
then digital work as many do today! a 1/2cent more by -Thom_j. :)
<col...@dellepro.com> wrote in message news:3bbd6...@news1.prserv.net...
Jonathan Byrd
>
> Why worry? There's no law that says you have to like Hendrix.
It's not so much worry as it is curiosity, and the suspicion that if I
got it, I'd somehow be richer. The same feeling kept me listening to
Charlie Parker and Monk and Mingus when I didn't get them, either.
I know it's only peripherally related to jazz guitar, but I thought I'd
take advantage of the fact that so many people on this newsgroup are
good at expressing musical ideas, and see if I could get some hints
about what specifically is credited to Hendrix by those who cite him as
being highly influential.
Max Leggett
>>
>> Why worry? There's no law that says you have to like Hendrix.
>
>It's not so much worry as it is curiosity, and the suspicion that if I
>got it, I'd somehow be richer. The same feeling kept me listening to
>Charlie Parker and Monk and Mingus when I didn't get them, either.
>
>I know it's only peripherally related to jazz guitar, but I thought I'd
>take advantage of the fact that so many people on this newsgroup are
>good at expressing musical ideas, and see if I could get some hints
>about what specifically is credited to Hendrix by those who cite him as
>being highly influential.
>--
Well, do a couple of tabs of purple microdot and you'll be au courant.
Randy Graves
>
. . .
> In the studio you also must remember the
> stuff used was quite crude' back then. Sound-on-Sound was new to
> all.
I'll bet Les Paul would be surprised to hear that.
Thom j.
Hendrix and more! You pay shipping & I will send them!! Remember
these are all originals & have been played {maybe too much??} They
are not junk scratch'ees either.. just a thought :)
"Jonathan Byrd" <j...@isu.edu> wrote in message
news:3BBDE5BB...@isu.edu...
| Michael Ellenberger wrote:
| I tend to prefer original albums over "best of" compilations.
| --
| Jonathan Byrd Computer Software Engineering Technology
| j...@isu.edu Idaho State University
| (208) 282-4256 Pocatello, Idaho USA
Thom j.
laying down was a bit crude via multi-sound'on'sound. Bottom
line: it was tape over tape, over tape, etc.. and quite! expensive
for rockers to have done. this is what I was trying to convey :)
"Randy Graves" <gra...@sonatech.com> wrote in message
news:3BBE2B9F...@sonatech.com...
Joe Nez
do.
I also agree with Kevin, but maybe for different reasons. I saw Jimi four
times, including Woodstock and a performance at the Surf Club in Wildwood,
NJ, that was even before he went to England. I wasn't particularly
impressed with any of the performances. They were a bit sloppy and far too
loud -- so loud you couldn't hear the music -- and he never really seemed
interested. Maybe it was me. Maybe I was expecting some religious
experience, but I was disappointed. He was definitely far better on vinyl.
Joe Nez
Kevin Van Sant wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Oct 2001 12:46:18 GMT, "Thom j." <thom_...@yahoo.com>
> wrote in message <uSYu7.96339$5A3.27...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> :
>
> >I wont go into a long boring dissertation of the 60s but if Jimi had
> >lived many would realize his true abilities and what he would have
> >contributed to music [past & present] but sadly it is a moot point
> >now!
> >Jimi was doing a lot of so called 'Jazz' work. He was suppose to
> >work on a collaboration with Miles D and other Jazz greats but I
> >guess it wasnt meant to be. If anyone is really interested in some
> >of his un-released music I'm sure there are sites' on the web that
> >have them but of course his "Would-of Could-of" works are all
> >only conjecture now. Meaning, we will just really never know as
> >again, he died too early for us to find out his true capibilities.
> >-Thom_j.
>
> To me, as great of a player as he was, I still think his greatest
> artistic accomplishments were his studio recordings. He was an
> incredible songwriter and song crafter. His musical vision was only
> complete IMO when he was able to fully texture his songs in the
> studio. I'm not saying that his songs and playing didn't stand up on
> their own, they did, what I mean is that I think his real genius was
> in crafting his art in the studio to produce amazing works such as
> Electric Ladyland and Axis: Bold as Love.
>
> As for what he might have done if he lived longer, I think he would
> have had to have some sort of life transformation like Coltrane did in
> order to take his art to the next level. From what I've read Hendrix
> himself was frustrated toward the end feeling like he was stuck in an
> artist purgatory of sorts. His lifestyle was probably holding him
> back. Had he lived and broken free, who knows?
>
> _________________________________________
> Kevin Van Sant
> jazz guitar
>
BLU335
now, but
if it has been suggested that Benson had
little respect (rolled his eyes) when Hendrix was mentioned, I strongly
disagree with this characterization. In
a magazine interview in "Guitar One"
about a year ago, Benson said that
had he been listening to Hendrix earlier
he would have incorporated some other
elements into his own playing sooner.
In another interview, Benson mentioned
being in a club back in the late '60's when some recorded music started playing
over the sound system. He said
he could tell it was Hendrix just by the
way the people reacted to it. He indicated
that many jazz guitarists (including himself) were either unaware or too quick
to dismiss the music of Jimi Hendrix.
Russ
Kevin Van Sant
<20011005185610...@mb-mb.aol.com> :
That sound more like I would expect coming from him. I just can't see
him bad mouthing Hendrix.
Frank Hudson
all one who died so young) needs to be responsible for all his
imitators. In fact you could use the following as a list of crimes for
which Hendrix should be indicted <grin>. But be careful you don't then
have to blame Bird for heroin, the hucklebuck, and soloists who are more
concerned with playing the changes than making melodic statements.
Here's a list of 8 things that come quickly to mind that Hendrix
influenced:
1. Extreme use of the vibrato bar. Impossible to imagine players like
Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Eddie Van Halen, Adrian Belew and a zillion of
their imitators and co-wang bar abusers without Hendrix. To my knowledge
no one ever used the bar like he did before he did.
2. The ubiquity of the Stratocaster guitar in the rock context. Before
Hendrix few played Strats, and immediately after Hendrix few played
Strats, but within 10 years of his death it become the standard solid
body electric guitar, something it has stayed to this day. I think this
came about as folks who may have imitated his choice became the heros to
the next generation of rock players.
3. 70's funk wouldn't have sounded anywhere near the same without him.
That's a genre I happen to have some fond feeling for, and obviously
there are other streams that formed that river, but the wah the
phase/flange sound, and the rhythmic feel of Hendrix (particularly Band
of Gypsies) is one of the sources. Ditto a shorter-lived fad for
"psychedelic soul" ala the Temps, Rotary Connection, etc. Or Hendrix+Sun
Ra+James Brown=Funkadelic.
4. Jazz fusion. Again there is more than one influence here, but the
fact that Hendrix got the ears of Miles and Gil Evans and probably had
some influence on McLaughlin (though I can't recall him ever speaking
about it) certainly helped get this off the ground.
5. Heavy Metal music. I warned you this might be a list of crimes now
didn't I. Cream, The Yardbirds and Hendrix were the genesis of this.
6. SciFi lyrics. The first couple Experience albums really started this
trend as far as I know.
7. The Hendrix-style use of the Wah pedal. Hard to hear anyone use one
since on guitar that doesn't get into some of the "vocalisms" that he
used it for.
8. The Hendrix style minor key rock ballad. Little Wing and Castles Made
of Sand and Angel (though indebted to Curtis Mayfield) are the changes
and vibe that many a song has been based on since. I'm not just talking
about hits like "Under the Bridge" or even that bane of guitar stores
everywhere "Stairway to Heaven"--hang around rock practice rooms and
you'll hear this trope being hit by a lot of unsigned and unknown bands
too.
Careful now, I'm not claiming that none of this would have happened
without Hendrix or that there weren't other influences. And this isn't a
list of jazz influences. I happened to live through much of this and I
think some younger folks may miss the course of influence much as the
fabled student who claimed that he didn't see what was so great about
Shakespeare when his plays are full of cliches.
Jonathan Byrd
I took a closer listen to Are you Experienced through my headphones, and
heard a lot of new things. It's funny, I've gotten so used to hearing
heavy use of "unusual guitar noises" for texturing that I've learned to
block them out as I listen (often in vain) for the underlying musical
substance. I have to put on a different set of ears to appreciate stuff
like that.
Michael Ellenberger
> Thanks for your thoughtful article, Frank.
>
> I took a closer listen to Are you Experienced through my headphones, and
> heard a lot of new things. It's funny, I've gotten so used to hearing
> heavy use of "unusual guitar noises" for texturing that I've learned to
> block them out as I listen (often in vain) for the underlying musical
> substance. I have to put on a different set of ears to appreciate stuff
> like that.
Way to go Jonathan, there is hope for you after all! You'll hear lots more
stuff going on in Electric Lady Land and the Axis studio albums as well.
The fact that you try to understand and listen closely is important and
applicable to all types of music. This could as well have been Bird or a
symphony or a blues.
Hendrix is an odd mix of pop, rock, blues, and beyond. Some people just
can't handle it. There is also a mix of sounds from his guitar that go from
sloppy ugly awful to brilliant. This to me is part of the beauty of
Hendrix.
Play on....
Bob Russell
>
> The fact that you try to understand and listen closely is important and
> applicable to all types of music. This could as well have been Bird or a
> symphony or a blues.
Bird was well known for having wide-open ears. There are stories of him
listening to stuff that nobody else could stand. When his friends would kid
him for it, he'd reply, "Yeah, but I hear what they're trying to do."
Michael Ellenberger
carefully to music in case someone thought this was only applicable to
Jimi's music etc. etc....
Did I read or hear once that Bird loved listening to country?
Mike
"Bob Russell" <bobrus...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B7E78E42.E473%bobrus...@hotmail.com...
Bob Russell
> Interesting story. I was trying to make a general case for listening
> carefully to music in case someone thought this was only applicable to
> Jimi's music etc. etc....
I agree. I think Bird's position reinforces your point.
> Did I read or hear once that Bird loved listening to country?
I haven't heard anything about him loving country music, but he was known to
appreciate a lot of music other than jazz. It wouldn't surprise me too much.
There's a story about him hiring a really bad hillbilly duo to play on the
breaks at one of his gigs. When the club owner called him on it, he said he
was just trying to guarantee a turnover in the crowd!
Brian Wood
chastised by a lot of people, including a lot of fellow players. He said
"Bird would have understood what we're trying to do. He may not have dug
it, but he would have understood it."
Brian Woodnews:B7E7C3F4.E498%bobrus...@hotmail.com...