Originals
Dan H.
This may be slightly off topic for this group but...
Okay, I have a question for you songwriters out there. Actually, several.
1. For those of you who write jazz originals, do you send your material out
to publishers at all or are the songs mainly for your own projects?
2. I am mainly a writer over being a "player", and would be interested in
finding out places/people who do demo work for jazz compositions. Any
suggestions about places/people/prices? I am not looking at anything
elaborate; 3-5 pc. band is okay.
3. If/when I get demos done, are there publishers who accept outside
material for jazz. Who are they and how might I contact them?
On a side note, I write country music as well and have a place that does
demo work for me but they would not be a good choice for jazz material. I
have also had several releases on small labels. Nothing spectacular, mind
you.
Thanks for your input,
Dan
--
Richard Daniels Music - Theory for the Serious Musician
http://www.ncp.net/rdm
Now Here-The New Real Book from Sher Music
TomLippinc
>
>Okay, I have a question for you songwriters out there. Actually, several.
>1. For those of you who write jazz originals, do you send your material out
>to publishers at all or are the songs mainly for your own projects?
>
I think you'll find the demand for new jazz compositions is going to be
extremely small; the vast majority of jazz artists (from the little guys to the
famous ones) who play "original compositions" play their own stuff pretty much
exclusively, or maybe they'll on rare occasion play a tune written by a friend
or colleague. It's also not uncommon for a sideman appearing on a record date
to bring in an original tune or two (particularly if that sideman is known for
his or her writing). About the only venue I can think of where original
compositions might be wanted or needed would be for big bands, particularly
high school and college big bands. I have a friend who works for Hal Leonard
publications doing a lot of arrangements for high school and college level big
bands (and smaller ensembles, if I'm not mistaken.) Even with this, the main
emphasis is on the arrangement and not the composition. In other words, a
company that is looking for material to sell to schools is looking for people
who can come up with complete arrangements, not just lead sheets that someone
else is going to have to arrange.
With that said, I have a friend who is starting a company called
"ERealBook.com" where jazz composers can sell lead sheets of their music.
He told me that the web site will be up in just a few days.
Tom Lippincott
Rick Stone
> >
> >Okay, I have a question for you songwriters out there. Actually, several.
> >1. For those of you who write jazz originals, do you send your material out
> >to publishers at all or are the songs mainly for your own projects?
I play my originals on my own gigs and am always glad to give other
musicians copies of the lead sheets. They usually won't ask unless they
really like the tune so when they do it's just about guaranteed to be
played.
One time Clifford Barbaro (drums) played some gigs with me and then came
back from a tour with John Hendricks group and told me they'd been
playing my tune "Far East."
More recently, pianist Richard Wyands called me up for permission to
record my tune "Veronica's Waltz." He had played it with me on several
gigs and decided it would be right for his next CD.
I've also given copies of tunes that I thought would sound good played
by particular musicians, and while this hasn't yielded anything yet, I
think in the long run it might (particularly if they hear other songs of
mine recorded by people they know).
Consider putting a bunch of them together in a little songbook (actually
that's one of my summer projects). There are several good reasons to do
this; 1) You can copyright the whole book for $30 (as opposed to paying
$30 for each song), 2) You can sell copies to your students, at your
gigs, etc. (always nice to create additional income streams since most
things we do pay so little), 3) You can GIVE them away liberally to
other musicians you know who might be interested in playing and/or
recording them (once you get some play, others will possibly jump on the
"bandwagon").
Hope this helps.
/=====================================================\
|RICK STONE guitarist/composer/teacher |
|email: jaz...@inch.com |
|Check out my CD the Rick Stone Quartet "Far East" |
|with Kenny Barron at: http://www.inch.com/~jazzand |
\=====================================================/
Thomas F Brown
TomLippinc <tomli...@aol.com> wrote:
>>This may be slightly off topic for this group but...
>>
>>Okay, I have a question for you songwriters out there. Actually, several.
>>1. For those of you who write jazz originals, do you send your material out
>>to publishers at all or are the songs mainly for your own projects?
>>
>
>extremely small; the vast majority of jazz artists (from the little guys to the
>famous ones) who play "original compositions" play their own stuff pretty much
>exclusively, or maybe they'll on rare occasion play a tune written by a friend
>or colleague. It's also not uncommon for a sideman appearing on a record date
>to bring in an original tune or two (particularly if that sideman is known for
>his or her writing).
I know a couple of instances where no-name friends of mine have placed
tunes on albums by name jazz players by approaching them personally and
giving them a lead sheet. There's no serious money in this, though, it's
just an ego trip.
Mark Kleinhaut
I don't think this is off topic, as you can see from the posts so far,
there are a number of jazz composers in this group.
>
> Okay, I have a question for you songwriters out there. Actually,
several.
> 1. For those of you who write jazz originals, do you send your
material out
> to publishers at all or are the songs mainly for your own projects?
I have just completed my second CD of all-original compositions. As a
composer, my orientation is to compose pieces for my own amusement (as
a player) and especially with the ensemble that I'm working with at
that time in my mind as the performance vehicle.
>
> 2. I am mainly a writer over being a "player", and would be
interested in
> finding out places/people who do demo work for jazz compositions. Any
> suggestions about places/people/prices? I am not looking at anything
> elaborate; 3-5 pc. band is okay.
It sounds like you are looking for a group to perform/record your
work. If you're willing to pay a reasonable scale for a demo
recording, finding the players should not be that difficult. Actually,
all you need is one person to be the leader and hire the other guys-
this may depend if your material is geared for horn, piano or maybe um,
even guitar as the lead voice. I assume you know what you wish to hear.
My suggestion would be to find someone local to work with. Where do you
live?
>
> 3. If/when I get demos done, are there publishers who accept outside
> material for jazz. Who are they and how might I contact them?
>
As Tom Lippincott pointed out, there is virtually no commercial market
for this stuff. Personally, I don't even try although I've put out a
couple of feelers for film and TV applications for my stuff- but that
would actually be a sych lic. for the actual performance recording- not
just the composition per se.
There is an outfit that advertises heavily in a magazine called
"Recording" (availaible at Borders) called TAXI. I have no experience
with them, but their pitch seems reasonable and they have been around
for quite a while now.
--
Mark Kleinhaut
Info and soundclips available at
www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Amphora.html
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Rick Stone
> I know a couple of instances where no-name friends of mine have placed
> tunes on albums by name jazz players by approaching them personally and
> giving them a lead sheet. There's no serious money in this, though, it's
> just an ego trip.
I don't exactly know why you'd consider this an "ego" trip. Why do you
write music in the first place? To have it played I hope! And if you
want it played well you'll give it to the people you feel will do the
best job of it. Often when I'm writing a tune I hear the sound of a
particular player in my head. If I can get them to put that sound out
in the air isn't that the point?
Joe Finn
"Dan H." wrote:
>
>
> Okay, I have a question for you songwriters out there. Actually, several.
> 1. For those of you who write jazz originals, do you send your material out
> to publishers at all or are the songs mainly for your own projects?
>
My compositions have been for my own recordings [mostly] so I just copyright
them in "suites" . This avoids the expense of copyright each song individually.
> 2. I am mainly a writer over being a "player", and would be interested in
> finding out places/people who do demo work for jazz compositions. Any
> suggestions about places/people/prices? I am not looking at anything
> elaborate; 3-5 pc. band is okay.
>
Check the clubs and studios in your area. I like to make home demos. This gives
me a good idea of what I want to do when I get to the actual recording. joe
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Mark Kleinhaut
Rick Stone <jaz...@inch.com> wrote:
(snip)
Often when I'm writing a tune I hear the sound of a
> particular player in my head. If I can get them to put that sound out
> in the air isn't that the point?
I think that is the very point. I've written specific pieces for my
trio with their individual voices in mind and also with my
understanding of how the three of us interact. One of the greatest
rewards of writing is hearing the music actualized, and when its done
by the specific players you had in mind it's extra special. Didn't
Duke talk about that a lot in describing how he and Strayhorn wrote and
arranged for his band?
icarusi
news:8iqgls$4sf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> I have just completed my second CD of all-original compositions. As
a
> composer, my orientation is to compose pieces for my own amusement
(as
> a player) and especially with the ensemble that I'm working with at
> that time in my mind as the performance vehicle.
You can also:-
1) write to your own (and associates) strengths and tastes.
2) make use of unusual things which may sound forced or foreign in an
non-original piece.
3) maximise copyright earnings/mininimise copyright earnings
'dilution'.
4) make use of those tunes buzzing around your head, that you
eventually realize you haven't plagiarised.
Icarusi
--
remove the 00 to reply
Thomas F Brown
>> I know a couple of instances where no-name friends of mine have placed
>> tunes on albums by name jazz players by approaching them personally and
>> giving them a lead sheet. There's no serious money in this, though, it's
>> just an ego trip.
>
>I don't exactly know why you'd consider this an "ego" trip. Why do you
>write music in the first place? To have it played I hope!
I didn't intend any pejorative connotation. I just mean there's
not much reward besides feeling good about it. Nothing wrong with
that, though.
Clay Moore
>
>This may be slightly off topic for this group but...
>
>1. For those of you who write jazz originals, do you send your material out
>to publishers at all or are the songs mainly for your own projects?
>
>finding out places/people who do demo work for jazz compositions. Any
>suggestions about places/people/prices? I am not looking at anything
>elaborate; 3-5 pc. band is okay.
>
>material for jazz. Who are they and how might I contact them?
>demo work for me but they would not be a good choice for jazz material. I
>have also had several releases on small labels. Nothing spectacular, mind
>you.
Hi Dan,
After reading the other posts in the group I can offer a couple of anecdotes
based on the experiences of friends of mine. The first is similar to the tale
told by Tom Lippicott. My one buddy has his own publishing company, and he
writes big band charts. He has a complete package going whereby he can sell
the arrangement to a school, then do a guest clinician/performer spot at the
school as well. This he does as a supplement to income he makes playing gigs
and selling pianos.
Another friend of mine used to talk about how he wanted to compose for a
living. At the time most "composers" were writing movie scores, jingles, or
songwriting for pop stars. Lo and behold my friend got a gig with a major
gaming company writing music for computer games (he wrote the music for the
game 'Wing Commander', among others). He actually negotiated a salaried
position with the company. Later he decided that freelance contracting was a
better option, and started his own small production company.
I realize these are not exactly the types of things you were asking about.
But, they represent a couple of ways that a person might make money by
composing in the "jazz" realm. Having a jazz artist record your work *might*
earn you some scratch, but it's dubious. One friend of mine who's compositions
have played on jazz radio says he's never seen a dime from ASCAP in the 8
years or so since his record has been played.
Clay Moore --
jazz guitarist
cl...@claymoore.com
http://www.claymoore.com/
To find out where I'm performing each week, sign up on my mailing list. Send a blnk e-mail to cmgigs-s...@topica.com
Rick Stone
Unfortunately there's not much reward for a jazz musician at any end of
the spectrum when it comes to collecting royalties. Jimmy Heath has
written a ton of tunes that have been recorded by himself and others
(Miles Davis, etc.). He told me his BMC checks are a joke.
Now if you can get into writing for TV and film it is apparently a much
different story. The unions seem to be much stronger in these areas and
people DO get paid. Seems like Quincy Jones isn't doing too bad!
Dan H.
Dan
--
Richard Daniels Music - Theory for the Serious Musician
http://www.ncp.net/rdm
Now Here-The New Real Book from Sher Music
"TomLippinc" <tomli...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000620152940...@ng-cb1.aol.com...
> >This may be slightly off topic for this group but...
> >
> >Okay, I have a question for you songwriters out there. Actually,
several.
> >1. For those of you who write jazz originals, do you send your material
out
> >to publishers at all or are the songs mainly for your own projects?
> >
>
> I think you'll find the demand for new jazz compositions is going to be
> extremely small; the vast majority of jazz artists (from the little guys
to the
> famous ones) who play "original compositions" play their own stuff pretty
much
> exclusively, or maybe they'll on rare occasion play a tune written by a
friend
> or colleague. It's also not uncommon for a sideman appearing on a record
date
> to bring in an original tune or two (particularly if that sideman is known
for
> his or her writing). About the only venue I can think of where original
Dan H.
Dan H.
and work ahead of me. One idea is to put together a small book of my
originals. If anyone is interested, let me know. They would be free with
maybe a nominal charge for postage.
Thanks again. This topic isn't covered that often and I didn't really know
in which direction to turn or what to expect.
What a great group this is.
Dan
--
Richard Daniels Music - Theory for the Serious Musician
http://www.ncp.net/rdm
Now Here-The New Real Book from Sher Music
"Dan H." <dha...@ncp.net> wrote in message
news:394fb8e6$0$94749$6c06...@news.en.com...
>
> This may be slightly off topic for this group but...
>
> Okay, I have a question for you songwriters out there. Actually,
several.
> 1. For those of you who write jazz originals, do you send your material
out
> to publishers at all or are the songs mainly for your own projects?
>
> 2. I am mainly a writer over being a "player", and would be interested in
> finding out places/people who do demo work for jazz compositions. Any
> suggestions about places/people/prices? I am not looking at anything
> elaborate; 3-5 pc. band is okay.
>
> 3. If/when I get demos done, are there publishers who accept outside
> material for jazz. Who are they and how might I contact them?
> On a side note, I write country music as well and have a place that
does
> demo work for me but they would not be a good choice for jazz material. I
> have also had several releases on small labels. Nothing spectacular, mind
> you.
>
> Thanks for your input,
TomLippinc
>the spectrum when it comes to collecting royalties. Jimmy Heath has
>written a ton of tunes that have been recorded by himself and others
>(Miles Davis, etc.). He told me his BMC checks are a joke.
>
as I understand it, the chief complaint that non-hit record type composers have
with ASCAP and BMI is that those organizations are really designed for top 40
composers whose works recieve mega airplay. There are these "surveys" that are
done and that's how the money is divided up; if your record is being played on
every commercial top 40 radio station across the country it's WAY more likely
to turn up on one of those surveys (numerous times even) than it is one time,
even if you're receiving substantial airplay on the relatively few jazz
stations around (or classical, or whatever). With this said, I played on a CD
(more or less jazz fusion oriented) about 10 years ago that featured some of my
own tunes. The CD did get some airplay at the time and I ended up getting a
check for about $120 from ASCAP. I haven't seen any more money since, but I
don't think the CD has gotten much of any airplay since the initial release
either.
>Now if you can get into writing for TV and film it is apparently a much
>different story. The unions seem to be much stronger in these areas and
>people DO get paid. Seems like Quincy Jones isn't doing too bad!
>
>/=====================================================\
>|RICK STONE guitarist/composer/teacher
Actually, for a long time I aspired to get into the writing end of the music
business. I was interested in augmenting my income by composing, primarily
film scores but I was also interested in pursuing commercial TV and radio stuff
as well. After doing a lot of research and getting to know some people "in the
business" I discovered, much to my chagrin, that the composing business is even
more about your business skills and "who you know" than the "performing"
business, and has very little to do with actual music. I don't think it was as
much that way when Quincy Jones or some of my heroes like Bernard Herrman or
Ennio Morricone broke into the business, but with the advent of synthesis,
sampling, and loop based music, EVERYONE and their brother is a composer who
wants to do movies now.
There is such a glut of composers looking for gigs and an overabundance of
product that the "powers that be" are starting to really take advantage of the
artists. On the film music pro list I subscribe to, the big discussion going
on most of the time is how ineffectual ASCAP and BMI are in respect to
collecting royalties for instrumental music. There is actually a lawsuit going
on right now where a pretty well known film composer is suing ASCAP (I think
that's right) for what he claims to be thousands and thousands of dollars in
uncollected royalties due to him over the last 15 years or so. I think some
people think ASCAP and BMI are somehow in cahoots with the "suits" at the big
movie studios and so forth, or at least are in one way or another being paid
off to "look the other way". There's also a big debate going on now about
production companies insisting on putting peoples' names on the contract as
"co-composers" who had nothing to do with the composing process (say, the
producer, the head of the company, his niece, ect.). It's apparently gotten to
the point where so many people are so desperate for any kind of work that
they're willing to sign away all their rights and in many cases work completely
for free just for the opportunity for "exposure".
The "mid-level" folks are up in arms insisting that all these newcomers are
ruining things for everyone, and that the established big names like John
Williams, ect., are maintaining silence and going along with "the man" to keep
their meal tickets rolling in. Does any of this sound familiar?
Oh, and there is actually no union for composers; the musicians union doesn't
let composers join because it's a confict of interest for them; in their mind
the composer is usually the one hiring musicians, so he's sort of the "enemy".
The people that seem to have the best deal with the musicians union are
actually the session players in LA, New York and Nashville. And the composers
haven't managed to unite and form their own union due to all the abovementioned
politics.
Anyway, I've all but given up even trying to break into this end of the
business. The jazz world seems like a lucrative and morally straight place by
comparison.
Tom Lippincott