Improvising on the Dm7/4 chord in Cantaloupe Island
sgcim
Sparks, Grant Green, some organ trio named Soul Live,etc...)and he
begged me to show him Cantaloupe Island, so I wrote it out for him.
Then we started blowing on it, and he got hung up on the last of the
3 chord changes, the Dm7/4 chord- D G C F).
I told him to use a D dorian mode on it, and he did so.
It sounded like shit.
Then I tried it, and it still sounded like shit.
I tried it again, this time letting my ear do the work, and I came
up with some F pentatonic minor stuff, which sounded much better.
I think this the reason this sounded good to me is because I always
hear the melody of the tune I'm blowing on when I'm improvising, and
the melody there is the notes C Eb C Eb F F F 2x, implying some type
of F scale with the flatted 7th, Eb.
I've never really heard anyone improvising on this tune, but I was
wondering what other people use on this chord?
Joey Goldstein
Mixolydian, D sym dim (half whole), D sym sim (whole-half) or anything
else that strikes my fancy.
That harmonic setting, by virtue of the chords on either side of the
Dm7, does not suggest any single clear cut choice of chord-scale
relationship. The song is in the key of F minor which would not normally
encorporate any chord that had an A nat in it (except maybe as an
approach chord like a secondary dominant...V of IVm perhaps). The
regular chord in this key built on D nat is Dm7b5. It is therefore open
to chromatic interpretation, so pretty much anything goes.
Most folks just use Dorian. But you might find Phrygian less chromatic
sounding because it retains the largest number of scale tones from the
original key.
--
Joey Goldstein
http://www.joeygoldstein.com
<joegold AT sympatico DOT ca>
Jeremey Poparad
chord, well, not exaclty, it's a dom7sus, but nonetheless it's a 7sus sound
with no distinction for the 3rd scale degree. For that tune my guitar
professor recommended the minor pentatonic a whole step above. Over a Dsus
chord use Em pentatonic. The use of pentatonics also harkens the use of
quartal harmony. The root,4th,7th,(9th) structure is all fourths and is a
cool sound to use.
"sgcim" <sg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7318994a.02122...@posting.google.com...
Bob Agnew
still sounds like shit to a lot of people, but I like it! I spent many hours
listening to Jean Luc Ponty's version when I was a wee lad so those changes
are burned into my brain.
"sgcim" <sg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7318994a.02122...@posting.google.com...
Sideways Jaye
The song is in the key of F minor which would not normally
> encorporate any chord that had an A nat in it
I don't hear an A nat in this chord at all. It's D,C,F,G, period.
The regular chord in this key built on D nat is Dm7b5. It is therefore
open
> to chromatic interpretation, so pretty much anything goes.
Agreed, as long as you resolve your lines to one of the chord tones
(or imply that resolution).
>
> Most folks just use Dorian.
Sounds very bad to me.
But you might find Phrygian less chromatic
> sounding because it retains the largest number of scale tones from the
> original key.
A better choice, imo.
>
> sgcim wrote:
> >
> > I was working with a jazz student who likes funk or acid jazz (Melvin
> > Sparks, Grant Green, some organ trio named Soul Live,etc...)and he
> > begged me to show him Cantaloupe Island, so I wrote it out for him.
Gosh, sg, why did he have to beg you? Even Joe Finn plays Cantaloupe
Island (!!!) Also, Soulive is bad as hell, you oughta check 'em out.
Man does not live by swing alone.
Bob R
sg...@hotmail.com wrote on 12/27/02 5:16 PM:
> I've never really heard anyone improvising on this tune, but I was
> wondering what other people use on this chord?
If you listen to the original recording, Hubbard and Hancock spend a lot of
time playing D minor blues or things from D minor pentatonic on that chord.
In Freddie's third chorus, he plays a line (at 2:46) that could be thought
of as being based on D dorian; the B natural is heard fairly prominently,
but the line's so chromatic that I wouldn't invest much energy in arguing
for Dorian there. Both soloists frequently "anticipate" the arrival of F
minor in the last bar or so of the Dm7sus section.
-- Bob Russell
http://www.bobrussellguitar.com
CD, "Watch This!", available at:
http://www.cdbaby.com/bobrussell
Joey Goldstein
Sideways Jaye wrote:
>
> Joey Goldstein <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote
>
> The song is in the key of F minor which would not normally
> > encorporate any chord that had an A nat in it
>
> I don't hear an A nat in this chord at all. It's D,C,F,G, period.
I've always played this as Dm7. Are you saying that on the original
recording there are no A's played by either Herbie or any of the
soloists? That would be interesting.
> The regular chord in this key built on D nat is Dm7b5. It is therefore
> open
> > to chromatic interpretation, so pretty much anything goes.
>
> Agreed, as long as you resolve your lines to one of the chord tones
> (or imply that resolution).
> >
> > Most folks just use Dorian.
>
> Sounds very bad to me.
I guess we hear things differently.
> But you might find Phrygian less chromatic
> > sounding because it retains the largest number of scale tones from the
> > original key.
>
> A better choice, imo.
> >
> > sgcim wrote:
> > >
> > > I was working with a jazz student who likes funk or acid jazz (Melvin
> > > Sparks, Grant Green, some organ trio named Soul Live,etc...)and he
> > > begged me to show him Cantaloupe Island, so I wrote it out for him.
>
> Gosh, sg, why did he have to beg you? Even Joe Finn plays Cantaloupe
> Island (!!!) Also, Soulive is bad as hell, you oughta check 'em out.
> Man does not live by swing alone.
--
sgcim
I like the D pentatonic minor (or blues scale there) and if Freddie
used it, it's got to be good- I've never heard him play a bad note,
fucked up lip or not.
I still like the polymodal sound of the F pentatonic minor and the
fact that it implies the melody at that point, but only against the
strict 4th chord DGCF- if you add the A then the Ab goes out the
window. If the comping instrument plays a Dm9 there, then the D dorian
would work. This is one of the reasons for having good harmonic ears,
if you're gonna have any kind of dialogue between players here, you've
got to be able to hear exactly what's going on.
However, if you have only a bass player, then you could do any
number of things, which one of the posters suggested.
Sideways Jaye
period.
>
> I've always played this as Dm7. Are you saying that on the original
> recording there are no A's played by either Herbie or any of the
> soloists? That would be interesting.
> > > Most folks just use Dorian.
> >
> > Sounds very bad to me.
>
> I guess we hear things differently.
Thanks to all for this thought-provoking thread. I spent some time
with the Donald Byrd version of the tune this morning. I still do not
hear an A natural in the chord. I stand corrected on the Dorian
issue, however. Kenny Burrell runs straight down D dorian in thirds
on this chord. Later, Herbie Hancock plays a D minor pentatonic line,
and then slides into F dorian. As Bob noted, pretty much anything
goes.