Alternative stringed jazz instruments? - opinions please
Chrome!Hat
my combo - with some additional stringed instruments. Part of this, is my
belief that jazz - not entirely, but in the general sense - has gotten too
safe and narrow in the choice of instrument. Of course, learning any
instrument takes time so this is not a trivial issue. I'd like some opinions
on some of the options I'm thinking of. I'm sure some of you have tried
these - or other - instruments. I'd value your opinions. I don't want to
regret the choice I make. These would be instruments I'd spotlight on some
songs, in addition to, not in lieue of guitar.
The most out-there option that feel right for me is to get an oud. I know of
no teachers and I understand this is not a simple instrument to pick up. The
sound is gorgeous and, from I've heard, there is lots of space for an oud in
jazz. Big learning curve though.
I also see a fit for a mandoline (picked not strummed and preferrable
electric). This is certainly not a common jazz instrument but I think
there's a fit in the right context.
Finally - and easiest to pick up - would be an electric 12 string.
This is certainly not the full playing field...dulcimer's, pedal steel,
Metheny's Nashville tuned baritone guitar, there are lots of options.
What do you think?
Rick
David Morton
wrote:
> The most out-there option that feel right for me is to get an oud. I
> know of
> no teachers and I understand this is not a simple instrument to pick
> up. The
> sound is gorgeous and, from I've heard, there is lots of space for an
> oud in
> jazz.
Have you heard Rabih Abou-Khalil? If not you should.
Hard to learn and *very* loud...how thin are your walls and how tolerant
your neighbours?
> Big learning curve though.
Not least because to play an Oud *as an Oud* you'd have to learn an entire
musical idiom...different scales and harmonic structures. Without this
you'd be playing an Oud as a sort of bastardised western lute-thing.
Playing western scales on an Oud would be like opening a Burger King in
Damascus...though now I've typed it I wonder if that comparison isn't too
politically loaded.
If the 'first learn an entire new musical culture' entry requirement puts
you off, then you'd be better off (IMHO, of course) going with something
like http://www.godinguitars.com/godinmultnylonfretlessp.htm
No it's not an Oud, nor is it pretending to be an Oud, but it is an
entirely new musical voice that a guitar player could adapt to.
> I also see a fit for a mandoline (picked not strummed and preferrable
> electric). This is certainly not a common jazz instrument but I think
> there's a fit in the right context.
A mandoline is a kitchen implement for chopping vegetables, a mandolin -
OTOH - is a musical instrument. :-)
Not a bad choice, easy to have around, and I cheat by thinking of it as
being the bottom four strings of a guitar seen in the mirror. I must
confess, though, that I don't find it very suitable as a jazz instrument.
I can't think why, it just doesn't sound right...maybe it's because I've
never heard on in a jazz context, but mine seems to be pre programmed to
play a selection of english folk tunes from my youth and nothing else.
Mostly these days it's an ornament.
> Finally - and easiest to pick up - would be an electric 12 string.
>
> This is certainly not the full playing field...dulcimer's, pedal steel,
> Metheny's Nashville tuned baritone guitar, there are lots of options.
I've strayed into nylon-strung with synth, acoustic 12 string & slide
(though 12 & slide both pre-date my introduction to jazz) and had great
fun with all of them. My most recent detour is into acoustic baritone -
though I use standard baritone tuning without the fancy high middle
strings - and I love it.
The only real failure for me was Chapman Stick, for a reason so prosaic as
to be almost embarrassing: I play with my fingernails (either with no pick
or a thumb pick) and there was no RH nail length compromise that let me
play Stick and Guitar, so it had to go.
William C.
and then the tight outfit of brother Billy Jack Wills. Might check out the
latter cuts.
Banjo... I've thought of messin' 'round with it.
Harp... absolutely beautiful.
Harpsichord, as in plucking the strings as in playing a harp. I did this as
a kid, and it was beautiful as well. I was listening to and working some
Japanese Koto music, and Grant Green. Some of that spilled over into the
harpsichord play.
I've no doubt that if i applied mind and imagination I could come up with
some others, but that'll have to do.
"Chrome!Hat" <r...@stormPANTIES.ca> wrote in message
news:br8gho$5fv$1...@news.storm.ca...
William C.
With regard to earlier post naming Tiny Moore in relation to mandolin, a
real multi-instrumentalist who cuts across musical borders is a neighbor:
http://www.alligator.com/artists/bio.cfm?ArtistID=012
There is a great mandolin page here:
http://www.emando.com/index2.htm
As, "jazz," is a state of mind, it could be/can be/has been played on rubber
bands (yeah, a kid who didn't have a guitar gets inventive).
Bill
"Chrome!Hat" <r...@stormPANTIES.ca> wrote in message
news:br8gho$5fv$1...@news.storm.ca...
Greg M. Silverman
better yet, jazz peformed by a broken consort or a baroque orchestra with large
continuo section; that would create quite the groove!
gms--
Adam Gottschalk
"William C." <misterw...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> As, "jazz," is a state of mind, it could be/can be/has been played on rubber
> bands (yeah, a kid who didn't have a guitar gets inventive).
Yes, indeed.
I've had thoughts along the "alternative stringed instrument" lines
myself. I thought very seriously about mandolin, but I don't think it
would be my bag. Maybe a big one, like an octave mandolin or a
mandocello. I heard a nice solo performed on bouzouki (a Greek type
mandocello I think) on Cassandra Wilson's recording Belly of the Sun.
Her recordings feature lots of alternative strings, from the likes of
Kevin Breit and Brandon Ross, playing resonator guitar/slide, 12-string
banjo, etc. Ms. Wilson has really led her comrades into a unique and
"personable" neo-acoustic-jazz sound.
I have decided I would like to play acoustic slide (in addition to
flattop acoustic, 7-string classical, solid-body electric, and 5貞tring
bass, fretted and fretless, all of which I'm in a state of amateur bliss
on at the moment). Not in my lap, holding it "regular", but using a
raised nut on a resonator guitar.
I do think there is some great room for "jazz guided experimentation"
on some of the double-course stringed instruments, like mandolin, etc.
Sitar I find a little to far outside the playing field, but I've heard
tablas sound great in a jazz context (check the track November on Dave
Douglas' Freak In). I understand there are some folks using 8-string
electric basses which are 4 double courses of strings. Could be pretty
wild. Never heard one, but Warmoth sells the parts for them.
Kelly Crow
-Kelly Crow
Atlanta, GA
evancj
it has one of the most beautiful tones of any instrument, and you get the
additional benifit of being able to do fun things like be in orchestras that
I never get to do with my guitar. I can't really justify the time it would
take to learn it now, though, considering how far I've come on the guitar
and how far I have to go.
Ahh, regret...
:)evan
William C.
"Adam Gottschalk" <ad...@adamgottschalk.net> wrote in message
news:adam-9CB760.1...@news.fu-berlin.de...
> In article <br8kcg$jgl9$1...@ID-216853.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> "William C." <misterw...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > As, "jazz," is a state of mind, it could be/can be/has been played on
rubber
> > bands (yeah, a kid who didn't have a guitar gets inventive).
>
> Yes, indeed.
>
> I've had thoughts along the "alternative stringed instrument" lines
> myself. I thought very seriously about mandolin, but I don't think it
> would be my bag. Maybe a big one, like an octave mandolin or a
> mandocello. I heard a nice solo performed on bouzouki (a Greek type
> mandocello I think) on Cassandra Wilson's recording Belly of the Sun.
> Her recordings feature lots of alternative strings, from the likes of
> Kevin Breit and Brandon Ross, playing resonator guitar/slide, 12-string
> banjo, etc. Ms. Wilson has really led her comrades into a unique and
> "personable" neo-acoustic-jazz sound.
>
> I have decided I would like to play acoustic slide (in addition to
> flattop acoustic, 7-string classical, solid-body electric, and 5貞tring
> bass, fretted and fretless, all of which I'm in a state of amateur bliss
> on at the moment). Not in my lap, holding it "regular", but using a
> raised nut on a resonator guitar.
Adam,
I recently hurt the middle finger on my fretting hand and I have re-visited
slide guitar while it heals. Open c tuning is what I settled on. I picked up
a glass tube that held a cigar, and the sound was/is sweet. I use a light
touch on slab guitar, no special set-up. And, as I am a finger picker, I'm
able to get quite a bit out of it.
Adam Gottschalk
Oh, I forgot to mention violin. I think it works really well,
especially in what you'd think were odd settings, really surreal effect.
Regina Carter comes to mind though I haven't heard much of her stuff.
There was an old player named Papa John Creach who used to play with Hot
Tuna. To this day I think some of the tracks and bootlegs I've heard
with Papa John's crying violin along side the loud rock n'roll of
drunken Jorma and Jack is extremely hip sounding.
Frisell's latest recording, a great listen, The Intercontinentals,
features the following instruments, aside from Frisell's electric
guitar: nylon string guitar, oud, lap steel, pedal steel, and violin.
Cassandra Wilson's last few recordings have all featured such
instruments as: violin (Regina Carter), mandolin, banjo, 12-string banjo
(great rhythm instrument, I think there's one maker down south,
available through Mandolin Brothers), Dobro/resonator guitar, and
bouzouki/mandocello.
OMG...I was just looking at some liner notes from CW's Travelin Miles
(not my favorite of her recordings at all), and I noticed, among such
names as Lonnie Plaxico, Dave Holland, and Pat Metheny, none other than
Kessel-basher himself, DW. How he got his name in there I'm not exactly
sure...not that I know dick...
Dave Wakely
pre-synth days (if I remember rightly, his old solo Characters album
uses this mixed in with guitars to rather nice effect) - mandolin
doesn't have to mean folk music or bluegrass (although for musical
genre warping, I have an old LP by The Tim Ware Group that freely
combines c&w, jazz, north african folk and more to rather fine
effect).
Leni Stern uses a variety of stringed instruments, and might be worth
a listen for inspiration. And another CD that might point you in some
possible directions is Mitch Watkins' Strings with Wings (a jazz
fusion guitarist makes a delightfully tuneful album with some Texas
country musicians).
Have you considered pedal steel? Nasty learning curve, but the hawaian
necklace and grass skirt aren't compulsory :-)
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:17:54 -0500, "Chrome!Hat" <r...@stormPANTIES.ca>
wrote:
Keith Freeman
> electric).
does.
-Keith
Music samples, tips, Portable Changes at
http://home.wanadoo.nl/keith.freeman/
E-mail: keith dot freeman at wanadoo dot nl
Max Smith
> I seem to recall John Abercrombie playing electric mandolin in his
> pre-synth days (if I remember rightly, his old solo Characters album
> uses this mixed in with guitars to rather nice effect)
Yes, there's great electric mandolin playing all over "Characters".
Several of Abercrombie's ECM albums from around that period have some
very nice electric mandolin playing - not folk-y at all - the mandolin
sometimes has a melancholy, crying sound, sometimes a joyful,, dancing
sound. I think Abercrombie's records with ECM from this period were
ground-breaking and deserve more attention. The records with Jack
Dejohnette and the ones with Richie Beirach are particularly incredible.
Also, Abercrombie did a great version of "Four on Six" with John
Scofield on their album "Solar" (which is another great album!)
featuring the electric mandolin, and Abercrombie smokes.
I loved the sound of the electric mandolin since I grabbed a handful of
Abercrombie ECM cassettes (during the B.C.D. era - before CDs) from a
cut-out bin in an Atlanta record store. I think the Fender electric
mandos are relatively inexpensive - I've always simulated the sound by
using a Tele on the bridge pickup, rolling back the tone, picking firmly
near the saddles - and playing really, really high notes!!
Maybe we should all help Abercrombie out (see post concerning his house
burning) by buying up his records and giving him a good listen - I'm
sure he must be compensated somehow by sales of records with his own
compositions...
He's a tremendous and sadly overlooked guitarist.
Max S.
William C.
>
> Oh, I forgot to mention violin. I think it works really well,
> especially in what you'd think were odd settings, really surreal effect.
> Regina Carter comes to mind though I haven't heard much of her stuff.
> There was an old player named Papa John Creach
I remember PaPa John from L.A.
Don, "Sugarcane," Harris, of the 50s rock duo, Don and Duey, was a
multi-instrumentalist in the area as well, doing a mean violin.
I had the good fortune to get hold of some:
Joe Venuti
early on in the game.
And followed up with some:
Snuff Smith
The grammer school music teacher was a multi-instrumentalist, appearing as a
regular on a local t.v. show, where he was often featured on violin. He was
an entertainer and showman. And he loved kids. I was very lucky.
By the time I got to Stephane Grapelli, the idea of violin in a variety of
settings was not alien.
> ho used to play with Hot
> Tuna. To this day I think some of the tracks and bootlegs I've heard
> with Papa John's crying violin along side the loud rock n'roll of
> drunken Jorma and Jack is extremely hip sounding.
>
> Frisell's latest recording, a great listen, The Intercontinentals,
> features the following instruments, aside from Frisell's electric
> guitar: nylon string guitar, oud, lap steel, pedal steel, and violin.
I did quite a, "stint," playing guitar in old fashioned honky tonks, and
here the boys would often stretch out. Tele masters and pedal steel wonder
kids. Plenty of swing. Some of the hottest violin you'd ever want to hear.
Will never forget a version of Harlem Nocturne one day.
William C.
"William C." <misterw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bra2b0$124n8$1...@ID-216853.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Adam Gottschalk" <ad...@adamgottschalk.net> wrote in message
> news:adam-0418B2.0...@news.fu-berlin.de...
> >
> > Oh, I forgot to mention violin. I think it works really well,
> > especially in what you'd think were odd settings, really surreal effect.
> > Regina Carter comes to mind though I haven't heard much of her stuff.
> > There was an old player named Papa John Creach
>
> I remember PaPa John from L.A.
> Don, "Sugarcane," Harris, of the 50s rock duo, Don and Duey, was a
> multi-instrumentalist in the area as well, doing a mean violin.
>
> I had the good fortune to get hold of some:
>
> Joe Venuti
>
> early on in the game.
>
> And followed up with some:
>
> Snuff Smith
Stuff Smith. Been a while.
hans van leeuwen
> electric). This is certainly not a common jazz instrument but I think
> there's a fit in the right context.
>
>
> Rick
Once I did a gig on a balalaika which was given to me as a birthday
present by my Russian wife. It was a big succes! Ok, it was a Russian
party, but nevertheless you can swing on any instrument if you want. A
balalaika has 3 strings, which I had tuned as g,b,e. I played it
amplified with element. Nevertheless it didn't help to make me
world-famous... now it is a decoration-peace on the wall of my
living-room.
Hans
Michael Edelman
been played on all these. Listen to Jethro Burns (of Homer and Jethro)
if you want to hear some great bop lines played on mandolin.
I can't think of an instrument that *hasn't* has jazz played on it.
Ever hear Rufus Harley? Fabulous jazz bagpiper. There are a bunch of
brass players out there who double on seashells- usually big conch
shells.
Max Leggett
wrote:
From this morning's Globe and Mails:
New musical instrument
Two Canadian scholars, as a byproduct of working on a math problem,
have invented a new stringed musical instrument. Samuel Gaudet and
Claude Gauthier of the University of Moncton, have high hopes for
their tritare (pronounced tree-tar), reports The Chronicle of Higher
Education. Shaped like an inverted Y, and equipped with six networks
of strings, the tritare can produce a range of sounds, from guitarlike
musical notes to percussive beats reminiscent of a church bell. It is
"playable by anyone who can play a guitar," says Prof. Gaudet.
Meanwhile, Martin Waltz, director of the university's music
department, said: "The sound of this new instrument gives music a new
dimension."
pataud
> In article <br8gho$5fv$1...@news.storm.ca>, r...@stormPANTIES.ca (Chrome!Hat)
> wrote:
>
>
>>The most out-there option that feel right for me is to get an oud. I
>>know of
>>no teachers and I understand this is not a simple instrument to pick
>>up. The
>>sound is gorgeous and, from I've heard, there is lots of space for an
>>oud in
>>jazz.
>
> If the 'first learn an entire new musical culture' entry requirement puts
> you off, then you'd be better off (IMHO, of course) going with something
> like http://www.godinguitars.com/godinmultnylonfretlessp.htm
>
> No it's not an Oud, nor is it pretending to be an Oud, but it is an
> entirely new musical voice that a guitar player could adapt to.
>
There's also the glissentar:
pataud
> On 11 Dec 2003 10:24:08 -0800, m...@spamcop.net (Michael Edelman)
> wrote:
>
>
>>I play guitar, bass, mandolin, banjo and fiddle and certainly jazz has
>>been played on all these. Listen to Jethro Burns (of Homer and Jethro)
>>if you want to hear some great bop lines played on mandolin.
>>
>>I can't think of an instrument that *hasn't* has jazz played on it.
>>Ever hear Rufus Harley? Fabulous jazz bagpiper. There are a bunch of
>>brass players out there who double on seashells- usually big conch
>>shells.
>
>
> From this morning's Globe and Mails:
> New musical instrument
>
> Two Canadian scholars, as a byproduct of working on a math problem,
> have invented a new stringed musical instrument. Samuel Gaudet and
> Claude Gauthier of the University of Moncton, have high hopes for
> their tritare
Displaying all Italian -> English dictionary definition of tritare[Verb]
Definition:-
tritare[Verb] - mangle
from http://italian.realdictionary.com/Italian/tritareVerb.asp
;)
Mark Smart
> electric). This is certainly not a common jazz instrument but I think
> there's a fit in the right context.
I played one of the newer Fender 5-string electric mandolins one time
and really liked it. Single strings rather than courses of two:
I think this might be a re-issue of what Abercrombie used on those
albums with Ralph Towner in the 70s.
I have a Jerry Jones Electic sitar that I've used to do Indian music
with a vocalist:
http://www.marksmart.net/bands/indianduets/indianduets.html
You can play jazz solos on it. Jazz chords start to sound a little
iffy...too many harmonics. But the instrument is great fun to play.
There are much cheaper copies of the Coral sitar available now.
Mark Smart
www.marksmart.net
Charlie Robinson
La première pièce composée pour tritare aura été jouée cette semaine à la radio
canadienne.
------------------------------------------------------------
>From this morning's Globe and Mails:
>New musical instrument
>
>Two Canadian scholars, as a byproduct of working on a math problem,
>have invented a new stringed musical instrument. Samuel Gaudet and
>Claude Gauthier of the University of Moncton, have high hopes for
>their tritare (pronounced tree-tar), reports The Chronicle of Higher
>Education. Shaped like an inverted Y, and equipped with six networks
>of strings, the tritare can produce a range of sounds, from guitarlike
>musical notes to percussive beats reminiscent of a church bell. It is
>"playable by anyone who can play a guitar," says Prof. Gaudet.
>Meanwhile, Martin Waltz, director of the university's music
>department, said: "The sound of this new instrument gives music a new
>dimension."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Charlie Robinson Jazz Guitarist, Composer
You can hear me online at: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/robinsonchazz
or http://www.soundclick.com/bands/rmmgj_music.htm
Stan Gosnell
news:br8gho$5fv$1...@news.storm.ca:
> I also see a fit for a mandoline (picked not strummed and
> preferrable electric). This is certainly not a common jazz
> instrument but I think there's a fit in the right context.
I've been playing electric mandolin & mandola for some time. It
works well for jazz, since it sounds a lot like an electric
guitar, but the fingerings are different, leading to different
licks in some cases. For jazz mandolin, listen to Tiny Moore,
Jethro Burns, David Grisman, and Paul Glasse, among others. We
need more mando players!
--
Regards,
Stan
Stan Gosnell
> Stuff Smith. Been a while.
Stephane Grappelli.
Mark O'Connor. He played with Grappelli and Grisman, and has
long been known as a country player. His latest CD, with Frank
Vignola, Wynton Marsalis, and Jane Monheit, is strictly jazz.
--
Regards,
Stan
jeffb
> We need more mando players!
John Reischman who has recorded with guitarists John Miller and Tony
Rice plays is ass off.
===============
jeffb
vancouver.bc.ca
rem XXX to mail
William C.
"Stan Gosnell" <me@work> wrote in message
news:Xns944EDC8AD7...@216.39.221.8...
When I first started playing out, decades ago, I found more versatility in
some of the, "country," tonks.... ability to mix it up with the best in a
variety of genres. Less so in blues joints, and some strict jazzers couldn't
rock. Exceptions to all of this of course. Nowadays, there are plenty of
hotshots across the board.
Bill