Are there books on jazz musicians' relationships?
newacct1048946
and who was white, who played in whose groups, who influenced whose direction,
etc.
There seems to have been a tremendous amount of racial harmony within the
genre, with many white and black musicians playing in each others' bands. Also,
it seems that there are some interesting examples of sidemen contributing ideas
or whole tunes, etc. Are there also (of course there are, but I mean
"well-documented") examples of racial tension or writing credit battles, etc? I
would be very surprised to hear that there aren't any well-known examples of
this. Certainly within the blues/R&B community, with which I am very familiar,
there is much of this, with sentiments ranging from "These white boys can't
play/can't play with feel/can't play like the black players/are trying to take
over 'our' music/are trying to get rich off 'our' culture" or "they're not
letting me in/are holding me back because they want to keep it a 'black' thing"
to "Hey, that boy can play/ I don't care what color a dude is if he's got
it/music knows no color", etc. There are also many well-publicized squabbles
over who wrote what, who was willing or not to consider sideman input, who was
willing to steal that input, and what record company ripped off the artist,
etc.
Are there some good stories about personal relationships among well-known jazz
musicians? Any good books on the topic?
Thanks!
Joey Goldstein
newacct1048946 wrote:
>
>
> Are there some good stories about personal relationships among well-known jazz
> musicians? Any good books on the topic?
I took a t leak with Jim Hall once. At Bourbon Street, here in Toronto, around the same time they
recorded Jim Hall Live.
So there I was standing at my urinal, with him standing at his, and I looked over at him (not down
mind you, just over) and said "Sounds great man." And he said "Thanks."
Cool, eh?
--
Joey Goldstein
Guitarist/Jazz Recording Artist/Teacher
Home Page: http://www.joeygoldstein.com
Email: <joegold AT sympatico DOT ca>
Tom Lippincott
cool, definitely. Someone once told me a similar story about complimenting
Miles at a urinal, except Miles' reply was "F#$% you, honky" !
Tom Lippincott
Guitarist, Composer, Teacher
audio samples, articles, CD's at:
http://www.tomlippincott.com
.MAtt
jazz-race thing...
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1852427302/qid=1010395379/sr=8-1/ref=
sr_8_3_1/002-9357847-2141657
"newacct1048946" <newacct...@aol.come> wrote in message
news:20020107014701...@mb-co.aol.com...
Rick Ross
"newacct1048946" <newacct...@aol.come> wrote in message
news:20020107014701...@mb-co.aol.com...
Charlie Robinson
During that time I was lucky enough to get to play behind people like "Lockjaw"
Davis, James Clay, Frank Foster, etc. travel around the country playing at
venues such as the Apollo, Regal, and Howard theaters, a jam with guys like
Benson, meet B.B. King, Jimmy Smith, play on recording sessions with Phil
Upchurch , etc. Once when I was going to a rehearsal at the Apollo my amp fell
down the stairs interrupting the 17 piece band. The bandleader started to jump
all over me asking who the hell I was, etc. B.B. who was down there jumped in
and said "I know him". I had no more problems after that. This attitude was
typical of almost all of the black musicians that I came in contact with during
that period. The few guys who had negative attitudes as to my "whiteness"
usually couldn't play so it didn't matter.
As for books, most of the well known jazz artists autobiographies contain
references to white musicians for the most part in positive terms.
A white R&B artist Johnny Otis has written a book about such experiences but I
don't remember it's title.
Charlie Robinson
-------------------------------------------------- <<
Charlie Robinson Jazz Guitarist, Composer
You can hear me online at: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/robinsonchazz
or: <A HREF="http://rmmgj.iuma.com">http://rmmgj.iuma.com</A>
Tom Walls
robins...@aol.com says...
> My first ten years as a musician were spent in black environments exclusivly.
> During that time I was lucky enough to get to play behind people like "Lockjaw"
> Davis, James Clay, Frank Foster, etc. travel around the country playing at
> venues such as the Apollo, Regal, and Howard theaters, a jam with guys like
> Benson, meet B.B. King, Jimmy Smith, play on recording sessions with Phil
> Upchurch , etc. Once when I was going to a rehearsal at the Apollo my amp fell
> down the stairs interrupting the 17 piece band. The bandleader started to jump
> all over me asking who the hell I was, etc. B.B. who was down there jumped in
> and said "I know him". I had no more problems after that. This attitude was
> typical of almost all of the black musicians that I came in contact with during
> that period. The few guys who had negative attitudes as to my "whiteness"
> usually couldn't play so it didn't matter.
> As for books, most of the well known jazz artists autobiographies contain
> references to white musicians for the most part in positive terms.
> A white R&B artist Johnny Otis has written a book about such experiences but I
> don't remember it's title.
> Charlie Robinson
> -------------------------------------------------- <<
"Listen to the Lamb". It's a good read. Insightful perspective on the
Watts riots.
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
http://www.arts.cornell.edu/zeus/
Mike Healy
Joey Goldstein <joegoldATsympaticoDOTca> wrote:
>
>
>newacct1048946 wrote:
>>
>>
>> Are there some good stories about personal relationships among well-known jazz
>> musicians? Any good books on the topic?
>
>I took a t leak with Jim Hall once. At Bourbon Street, here in Toronto, around the same time they
>recorded Jim Hall Live.
I took a leak with Dizzy Gillespie once at Slug's. Later, we were sitting
right in front of him when he started playing. They started out mellow.
My friend and I wanted something harder and were complaining to each other
when Dizzy, without missing a beat, turns to us and says, "Don't worry
boys, we'll be getting it going", and they did. Man, I felt like I was
six inches tall.
Mike Healy
Joey Goldstein
If only I had six inches.
Joe Nez
titled "Jazz Anecdotes." I leafed through it and there are some very interesting
and funny stories in there and many give kind of personal glimpses into the lives
of some of the best know jazz musicians of the last 75 years in the words of other
jazz musicians who knew them well. I checked and it is available on Amazon and
Barnes and Noble in paperback.
joe nez
Charlie Robinson
cab. He saw me standing there, glanced into my eyes, clutched his guitar and
amp a little bit tighter and hurried into the club. Still I felt as if some
guitar playerly secret had passed between us.
Charlie Robinson
-----------------------------------------
<< I took a leak with Dizzy Gillespie once at Slug's. Later, we were sitting
> right in front of him when he started playing. They started out mellow.
> My friend and I wanted something harder and were complaining to each other
> when Dizzy, without missing a beat, turns to us and says, "Don't worry
> boys, we'll be getting it going", and they did. Man, I felt like I was
> six inches tall.
If only I had six inches.
--
Joey Goldstein
Guitarist/Jazz Recording Artist/Teacher
Home Page: http://www.joeygoldstein.com
Email: <joegold AT sympatico DOT ca>
>>
Charlie Robinson Jazz Guitarist, Composer
Kevin Van Sant
message <a1ct2v$40a$1...@poisson.nosc.mil> :
>>>
>>>
>>> Are there some good stories about personal relationships among well-known jazz
>>> musicians? Any good books on the topic?
>>
>>I took a t leak with Jim Hall once. At Bourbon Street, here in Toronto, around the same time they
>>recorded Jim Hall Live.
>
>I took a leak with Dizzy Gillespie once at Slug's. Later, we were sitting
>right in front of him when he started playing. They started out mellow.
>My friend and I wanted something harder and were complaining to each other
>when Dizzy, without missing a beat, turns to us and says, "Don't worry
>boys, we'll be getting it going", and they did. Man, I felt like I was
>six inches tall.
I went to hear Buddy Guy at a local club, went to take a leak during
an extended guitar solo, next thing I know Buddy is in the men's room
still soloing via wireless rig!
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
jazz guitar
http://www.onestopjazz.com/kvansant
to buy my CDs, listen to sound clips, and get more info.
http://www.onestopjazz.com
for a comprehensive index of internet jazz resources
Thom j.
of going all over the US. I only went up&down the midatlantic
regions.. Again, B.B. was aces with me too and we use to jam
many nights after he played at the "Tower Theater" all night!
What a fantastic man! Yea just gotta love B.B. & not just as a
great musician either! I feel he was a true 'ambassador' for the
blues and all 50s-60s music! Thanx B.B.
"Charlie Robinson" <robins...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020107113528...@mb-cs.aol.com...
Thom j.
I couldnt resist Joey.. The devil made me do it! :)
Thom j.
when plays on Rush Street in Chicago! It's a
riot! Btw: What is it with all this 'pee' stories?
Is there a hidden theme here I'm unaware of? :)
"Kevin Van Sant" <kvan...@pobox.com> wrote in message
thomas
racism among jazz musicians.
Also see:
Lost Chords: White Musicians and Their Contributions to Jazz, 1915-1945,
by Richard M. Sudhalter.
This is not only one of the great books in jazz history, it
also has some important insights on the role of race in jazz
history.
There is also:
The Color of Jazz: Race and Representation in Postwar
American Culture, by Jon Panish
...which I haven't yet had the chance to read.
newacct...@aol.come (newacct1048946) wrote in message news:<20020107014701...@mb-co.aol.com>...
Bob Russell
> Cats of All Colors, by Gene Lees, has an essay on reverse
> racism among jazz musicians.
I think that's "Cats of Any Color". A thoughtfully written book.
-- Bob Russell
http://www.uncwil.edu/people/russellr
Nazodesu
difficulties he encountered in predominantly black settings while with
Miles Davis. It's intimated that Coltrane had difficulties with Evans
because of matters related to race. So for though (I'm reading it now)
there is no explicit evidence presented in this regard. Only that
'Trane was cold and/or offish.
I use to play with a number of black players in OKC in the 60's and on
occasion would sit in at a black after-hours joint. The first time I
went to one club I didn't bring in my guitar and amp. I didn't want to
be "forward" though I had been invited by a guy with the house band. I
went to a table and the entire room was filled with cold
confrontational eyes.
A waitress didn't come to my table for 20 minutes, though I tried very
obviously to get her attention. It was very very hostile. I went out
to the car and got my guitar and a little amp, and brought them in. I
sat them next to my table.
The waitress was taking my order before I could sit down. Kindnessa and
light. The crowd no longer had an interest in me. By being a player my
whiteness was at least perfunctorily irrelevant. I sat in and all was
well. From this point forward I felt as I usually had in predominantly
black places; as if my race didn't matter. I hadn't realized until
this point that my instrument had always been an invisible "membership
badge" and that without it I was potentially a cop, a trouble-maker, or
simply unwelcome.
It was illuminating.
JimValiant
>when plays on Rush Street in Chicago!
Where on earth does Buddy play on Rush Street?! Koko Taylor used to have a
place around the corner on Division (long since closed), but where are they
playing blues on Rush Street?
JimValiant
>"well-documented") examples of racial tension
I have heard Benny Goodman referred to as The King of Jazz, or some such title,
many times. It's the same mentality that produces a reference to Elvis Presley
as The King Of Rock 'n' Roll. It is as absurd as declaring Eric Clapton or
Stevie Ray Vaughan to be The King Of The Blues. If I, in this day and age, have
heard this, then certainly this must have been heard often in the '40's (or
similar top honors being given to Glenn Miller, etc.), and absolutely HAD to
feul bitterness in the black jazz originators that white interpreters of their
music had, because they were white, hit big, made a lot of money, and received
the credit. It HAD to.
Bob Russell
> I have heard Benny Goodman referred to as The King of Jazz, or some such
> title,
> many times.
Benny was often called "The King of Swing". Paul Whiteman ( a
bandleader/promoter) was sometimes referred to as "The King of Jazz". At
least Benny was a great player; Paul Whiteman was by no stretch of the
imagination a jazz musician, although he hired some great ones (Trumbauer,
Venuti, Bix, Teagarden).
Thom j.
Not being from Chicago, They had somekind of Venus
type celebration in Chicago in mid-summer and this was
when I saw Buddy bebop out of a place on Rush Street
but it has been so long I dont have a clue which place?
I was in Chicago for a Trade Show. I'd do about 20 of
these miserable things a year but in the summer, for me
Rush Street was a great place to lay-back & groove :)
I stayed in the Ahhm? 'The Tower Hotel' on the corner
of Rush and Michigan. Is this right? It was right by the
tower that was the only thing left after the Big Chicago
Fire..or something?
"JimValiant" <jimva...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020107222544...@mb-fe.aol.com...
Thom j.
I really enjoy both but Kings.. Where?
"JimValiant" <jimva...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020107224653...@mb-fe.aol.com...
JimValiant
>I really enjoy both but Kings.. Where?
Mercifully, I haven't heard that either (although it's certainly the unspoken
belief of a lot of Monday night suburban jammers!). No, I was just saying that
to call Benny Goodman or Elvis the "Kings" of their genres was as absurd as
calling Clapton or Vaughan the "King" of theirs.
JimValiant
>when I saw Buddy bebop out of a place on Rush Street
Well, come on back to Chi! Blues is up on Halsted Street now. (Pssst! Actually
the good stuff is on Clark at the two Blue Chicago locations and down on 43rd
at The Checkerboard. All those Alligator artists are fakin' the funk for
tourists up on Halsted- yawn!)
Thom j.
I do dig SRV & Clapton alot but I know that EC would
be the first to say he wasn't any King! He even hates the
reference made when they call him "the guitar god."
"JimValiant" <jimva...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020107235422...@mb-fe.aol.com...
Thom j.
Unless I luckout with a miracle someday. So for now
I am stuck in the "Garbage State" aka New Jurrzeee :)
"JimValiant" <jimva...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020107235742...@mb-fe.aol.com...
Pat Smith
Urinals aside. Check out the book Cats of Any Color by Gene Lees. I met
Gary Peacock in the Men's room at Yoshi's.