Django's Guitar Pick!

[charlieguitar]

The question as to what type of pick Django used keeps coming up. This article informs us that he used the stiffest, thickest pick that he could find usually made of tortoise shell. (Someone please tell Gerry as he killfiled me a few months ago[most unfairly I might add]). He persists in asking about this endlessly :) Charlie http://www.fgmrecords.com/gypsy%20jazz/django_reinhardt.html

[TD]

On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:01:43 AM UTC-5, charlieguitar wrote:
> The question as to what type of pick Django used keeps coming up. This article informs us that he used the stiffest, thickest pick that he could find usually made of tortoise shell. (Someone please tell Gerry as he killfiled me a few months ago[most unfairly I might add]). He persists in asking about this endlessly :) Charlie http://www.fgmrecords.com/gypsy%20jazz/django_reinhardt.html

He obviously killfiled me too. "Kill file don't bother me, kill file don't bother me." Django was known to use coat buttons, as well. I was told this by some gypsy players back when I was living in Paris. No, they weren't reading my palm at the time.

[Jazzer]

On Jan 16, 11:12 am, TD <tonydecap...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Django was known to use coat buttons, as well. I was told this by some gypsy
> players back when I was living in Paris.

Do you know the brand and thickness? :)

[TD]

Probably of Gabardine. Thickness, is "hard" to tell.

[charlieguitar]

According to these people the button was one which came from his fly:

http://www.jpstrings.com/brpicks.htm#D Buttons

Charlie

[John A.]

Four holes or two?


John

[Gerry]

On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:01:43 AM UTC-5, charlieguitar wrote:

> The question as to what type of pick Django used keeps coming up. This
> article informs us that he used the stiffest, thickest pick that he

> could find usually made of tortoise shell. (Someone please tell Gerry...

Thanks for taking the time.

> ...as he killfiled me a few months ago[most unfairly I might add]).

I doubt you remember the specifics of my rationale. Your accusation:

> If you prefer to brand Ms.Souza a respected member of the International
> Jazz Community a liar, crass opportunist or delusional storyteller I
> suppose you are within you rights to do so.

I said nothing of the sort.

> But from my perspective you should hang your head in shame at these
> personal attacks upon a venerated woman of Jazz and Bossa Nova who
> knows no other attackers than yourself! All of this to try to promote a
> seedy argument that collapses each time that you try to present it to
> us. For shame!

I assumed you confused what I said about Astrud Gilberto with Souza
(Astrud qualifies in all three regards about which I have no shame.)
It's irrelevant the source of the confusion: When you stoop to personal
attacks, how would you prefer I respond? Play Lord Valve? No thanks,
I've done that before and it's a drag from either side.

I've been attacked by idiots, trolls and assholes; it's just noise. But
when you get attacked by someone you trust, it's really not worth
hanging around for.

TD said:

> He obviously killfiled me too. "Kill file don't bother me, kill file
> don't bother me."

You, I got tired of apologizing to! You should feel honored!

Okay, 2013 amnesty for (almost) all!

But note that killfililng those inclined to personal invective (OR *to
whom* I am so inclined) is a really great savings of time and angst for
all parties involved.

--
Music is the best means we have of digesting time. -- W. H. Auden

[Greger Hoel]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 03:37:51 +0100, Gerry <add...@domain.com> wrote:

> But note that killfililng those inclined to personal invective (OR *to
> whom* I am so inclined) is a really great savings of time and angst for
> all parties involved.

If you wanna save time and angst for all parties involved, you could
display your current list of rmmgj personas non grata in your sig, so
'those inclined to personal invective (Or *to whom* you are so inclined)'
don't waste time addressing your inquiries.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

[charlieguitar]

Well if I misinterpreted you then I must assume that Ms. Souza was right and we are both in agreement on the matter so it appears that all is well in guitar world again. I'm glad that you trust me and that my banisment to the nether world has been lifted! Yours in whatever this is...Charlie

[TD]

Nether the Mark Twain shall eat meat.

[Greger Hoel]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 04:05:18 +0100, Greger Hoel <nob...@home.fu> wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 03:37:51 +0100, Gerry <add...@domain.com> wrote:
>
>> But note that killfililng those inclined to personal invective (OR *to
>> whom* I am so inclined) is a really great savings of time and angst for
>> all parties involved.
>
> If you wanna save time and angst for all parties involved, you could
> display your current list of rmmgj personas non grata in your sig, so
> 'those inclined to personal invective (Or *to whom* you are so
> inclined)' don't waste time addressing your inquiries.

Somebody please reply so Mrs. Doubtfire can read my post.

[charlieguitar]

Better watch it D.C. due to a better understaning with my good friend Gerry I am now back in. It is you who is still out in the cold where there is nothing but the gnashing of teeth and the smell of brimstone.
Charlie

[TD]

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him." - Mark Twain

[Gerry]

On 2013-01-18 00:40:41 +0000, charlieguitar said:

> It is you who is still out in the cold where there is nothing but the
> gnashing of teeth and the smell of brimstone.

Naw, I provided amnesty to all hominids. But enough about me...

[charlieguitar]

Bells are ringing throughout the city as we speak!
Charlie

[Gerry]

On 2013-01-18 02:24:19 +0000, charlieguitar said:

>> Naw, I provided amnesty to all hominids. But enough about me...
>

> Bells are ringing throughout the city as we speak!

No, old timer: I think someone is at your front door ringing the bell...

[thomas]

On Thursday, January 17, 2013 5:42:26 PM UTC-5, Greger Hoel wrote:
>
> Somebody please reply so Mrs. Doubtfire can read my post.

She's also been known to screw your nanny.

[Gerry]

But not without a certain repugnance.

[Greger Hoel]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 04:31:41 +0100, thomas <drthoma...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thursday, January 17, 2013 5:42:26 PM UTC-5, Greger Hoel wrote:
>>
>> Somebody please reply so Mrs. Doubtfire can read my post.
>
> She's also been known to screw your nanny.

I'm sure you know it 'first hand'.

[thomas]

On Friday, January 18, 2013 5:56:26 PM UTC-5, Greger Hoel wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Thursday, January 17, 2013 5:42:26 PM UTC-5, Greger Hoel wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> Somebody please reply so Mrs. Doubtfire can read my post.
>
> >
>
> > She's also been known to screw your nanny.
>
>
>
> I'm sure you know it 'first hand'.

Let's not drag Metheny into this.

[Paul]

On 1/16/2013 9:01 AM, charlieguitar wrote:
> The question as to what type of pick Django used keeps coming up. This article informs us that he used the stiffest, thickest pick that he could find usually made of tortoise shell. (Someone please tell Gerry as he killfiled me a few months ago[most unfairly I might add]). He persists in asking about this endlessly :) Charlie http://www.fgmrecords.com/gypsy%20jazz/django_reinhardt.html
>

Hint: You aren't going to sound like Django just because you use
the same pick.

Do you think Pat Metheny's guitar tech sounds like him when
he tests out the guitars?

Hell no.

[Gerry]

On 2013-01-19 15:23:18 +0000, Paul said:

> On 1/16/2013 9:01 AM, charlieguitar wrote:
>> The question as to what type of pick Django used keeps coming up. This
>> article informs us that he used the stiffest, thickest pick that he
>> could find usually made of tortoise shell.
>

> Hint: You aren't going to sound like Django just because you use
> the same pick.

That's a big surprise.

[charlieguitar]

I guess I can sew those fly buttons back on then....Charlie

[TD]

Gee, you're a real pisser!

[charlieguitar]

Thanks Tony, I'm typing your endorsement into my bio update at this very moment!
Charlie

[TD]

Careful, such updates can be biodegradable.

[andy-uk .]

If hands are important and you want to sound like Django .... what about your left hand?

[Jonathan]

On Sunday, January 20, 2013 7:31:50 AM UTC-5, andy-uk . wrote:
> If hands are important and you want to sound like Django .... what about your left hand?

Maybe you could start small by putting a rubber band around your pinky and ring finger, and see how it goes :)

[Gerry]

On 2013-01-20 14:08:57 +0000, Jonathan said:

> On Sunday, January 20, 2013 7:31:50 AM UTC-5, andy-uk . wrote:
>> If hands are important and you want to sound like Django .... what
>> about your left hand?

I'm not sure who the question is addressed to, but what about that the
left hand? Django is fascinating in any number of ways, but at my age,
and with my interests, these are academic questions more than they are
plotting a course of study. I think his left hand and his picking style
are both amazing and highly personal. I think both are worthy of study
and inquiry, but not, as is inexplicably highlighted as a danger in
guitar playing, to the exclusion of everything else.

> Maybe you could start small by putting a rubber band around your pinky
> and ring finger, and see how it goes :)

I've known a couple of guitarists that were pretty significant Django
clones. They are interesting but, no offense to Django or his
imitators, they seem more limited by this replication than they do
liberated. In fairness, they might be able to do pretty convincing
imitations of Wes and Tal Farlow too, I don't know. But I'm not sure
that being the Rich Little of guitar is a "gift" so much as a curse.

Norman Mailer wrote "The Fight" which was a large feature piece first
published in Playboy and then expanded into a small book. It was about
Ali reclaiming his heavyweight title from George Foreman in Zaire.

He spent no small amount of time arguing that hand speed and speed of
response in counter-punching, also noteworthy in Emile Griffith among
others, was faster among people who were illiterate. I thought he gave
a good, though ultimately unprovable thesis in this regard.

Django was illiterate until Grappelli taught him to read and write
relatively late in life, which I understood he then did quite poorly.
Nevertheless his guitar skills were well developed and his style and
approach set while he was illiterate.

Picks and strings and amps and hats are always very important, but it
seems that relentlessly pursuing your very own approach seems the best
way to uncover "genius" or at list personal distinction on the guitar.
Oh--and also dying young.

This morning as I woke up, likely initially pondering my own mortality,
I began considering the greats that had died young. The history of bass
has been particularly boned with the early loss of some of their
greatest innovators in Jimmy Blanton, Oscar Pettiford and Scott LaFaro.
Parker, Bird, Clifford Brown, Charlie Christian, Eddie Lang and of
course Django. And plenty more. It's really amazing how many iconic and
critically important players in music history died young.

So: Being illiterate and dying young might be more important that pick
and string gauge. I've blown it in these two fundamental ways already.
There's no hope for my lasting genius in the world of music. I'll see
if I can't make my mark instead in being a regional master of scopa.

Jeez--I haven't evan had my coffee yet.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

Its just pursuing your own thing, which had to come from an inner urge....its not really complicated at all.

[TD]

I don't expect you to respond, but Jimmy B might appreciate my little story here better than anyone here. Many years ago, circa 1978, I had the honor of playing the White House with Diana Ross. While we waited in another room, I heard some one talking apparently to the audience in the room we were to perform in. Although, I knew we were performing for Jimmy Carter and his crew, my mind drew a blank and I sincerely believed that Rich Little was the opening act! It was the President! I was so used to gigging in Vegas back then. The story is not over. When I returned to Vegas after the gig, I was hired at the MGM Grand to perform in Orchestra for Dean Martin. Lo and behold, Rich Little was the opening act (No, it wasn't President Carter). When I ran into Rich backstage, I just couldn't resist telling him my freshly brewed story. He replied, "That is the best compliment anyone had ever given me."

About Stephane: He hired me to tour with him when I lived in Paris. Unfortunately for me, he died before I had a chance to gig with him. He was a terrific human being and he loved all styles of jazz playing. I, along with Michel Pettruciani, Martin Taylor and Sacha Distel was at his funeral in Paris. I was also present at his wake, which was held European style at his home.

Some one once hipped me to a cool phrase: "We are all here on a pass." Life is but a few spins of the Roulette wheel. It ain't so much about the ornaments and appurtenance, as it is about the essence. It's personal, but it has to be honest.

[Gerry]

On 2013-01-20 17:22:21 +0000, TD said:

> About Stephane: He hired me to tour with him when I lived in Paris.
> Unfortunately for me, he died before I had a chance to gig with him. He
> was a terrific human being and he loved all styles of jazz playing.

I got "Django Reindhardt: Swing Guitar" a short documentary "featuring
all existing footage of Django", which I might add, we have the
plealsure of seeing repeatedly with different records playing behind
it. Nevertheless a little good information is always appreciated, and
there is a little in it.

It does point out, through some quotes from Grappelli's memoirs, that
Grappelli was a generous man and certainly did a significant job in
helping a gypsy catch a break. I can't imagine teaching a band member
how to read and write English...

[thomas]

On Sunday, January 20, 2013 11:31:47 AM UTC-5, Gerry wrote:
>

> I've known a couple of guitarists that were pretty significant Django
> clones. They are interesting but, no offense to Django or his
> imitators, they seem more limited by this replication than they do
> liberated. In fairness, they might be able to do pretty convincing
> imitations of Wes and Tal Farlow too, I don't know. But I'm not sure
> that being the Rich Little of guitar is a "gift" so much as a curse.

What's wrong with being a clone? I'd rather be an effective clone of Django or Wes or Paulinho Nogueira than to sound like just another amateur hacker. I think that for many people, trying to be a good clone can be a very effective springboard to developing your own style, and can accelerate your development.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

Are those the only choices? Imitation can be a black hole....which is fine if you're ok with it, originality is not everyones cup of tea.

[thomas]

On Sunday, January 20, 2013 4:58:41 PM UTC-5, Mark Kleinhaut wrote:
> Are those the only choices? Imitation can be a black hole....which is fine if you're ok with it, originality is not everyones cup of tea.>

Innovation in art is vastly over-rated. It's better to be good than to be original.

[Mark Kleinhaut]

I disagree, kinda strongly. Art without innovation would be dead. I don't think that's in much dispute, but would anybody miss one less clone?

[TD]

By what standard? Safe?

[Gerry]

On 2013-01-20 21:49:31 +0000, thomas said:

> On Sunday, January 20, 2013 11:31:47 AM UTC-5, Gerry wrote:
>>
>> I've known a couple of guitarists that were pretty significant Django>
>> clones. They are interesting but, no offense to Django or his>
>> imitators, they seem more limited by this replication than they do>
>> liberated. In fairness, they might be able to do pretty convincing>
>> imitations of Wes and Tal Farlow too, I don't know. But I'm not sure
>> that being the Rich Little of guitar is a "gift" so much as a curse.
>
> What's wrong with being a clone?

Nothing inherently. It's a choice. I'd rather be a better version of me
than a good imitator of another.

> I'd rather be an effective clone of Django or Wes or Paulinho Nogueira
> than to sound like just another amateur hacker.

I'm not sure I ever say the choice as Django versus amateur hack. Are
there any more choices?

> I think that for many people, trying to be a good clone can be a very
> effective springboard to developing your own style, and can accelerate
> your development.

I agree, and did that myself: A springboard. With the two
Djangologists, that's an end itself. But to your point: What's wrong?
Nothing. If that's the way you want it.

[Gerry]

On 2013-01-20 21:58:41 +0000, Mark Kleinhaut said:

> Are those the only choices? Imitation can be a black hole....which is
> fine if you're ok with it, originality is not everyones cup of tea.

I should add that pursuing originality may be as unsuccessful a course
of action (quite likely more so) than being a Django clone. But as you
point out, there are other options.

[Paul K]

On 1/20/13 11:57 AM, Mark Kleinhaut wrote:
> Its just pursuing your own thing, which had to come from an inner urge....its not really complicated at all.

great tune, but I think it *is* pretty complicated

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wM1YQQV5cg


--
Paul K
http://www.youtube.com/user/fibrationboy
http://www.soundclick.com/paulkirk
http://mypage.iu.edu/~pkirk/

[Jonathan]

On Sunday, January 20, 2013 11:31:47 AM UTC-5, Gerry wrote:

You forgot heroin. That seems to be part of the formula as well :)

[Gerry]

On 2013-01-21 01:14:33 +0000, Jonathan said:

> You forgot heroin.

Oops!