Clarus Coda/Contra vs. Raezer's Edge T8-T
Danny W.
18 months, I've really come to appreciate how good a rig it is. Over
that period I've played with big bands, small jazz groups, a swing
choir, Dixie groups and even a ‘50's-style rock group (used a Stealth
12 ER for this). The venues ranged from small clubs and restaurants to
large ballrooms and even the ASU Sundome, which seats 7,000 people on
a single level! I always play at stage volume without further mic'ing
or amplification. I play either full-depth or thin-body carved-top
Gibsons, with a variety of pickup configurations. I don't currently
have anything with nylon strings. The Clarus/RE always sounds great in
any situation at any volume level I can tolerate.
During this time I've worked with a number of bass players. I've had
all of them plug into my amp. They were always amazed to hear a
"guitar amp" sound so great with their bass. Results so far is that
two of them are now using a Clarus 1A with an RE Bass 10 and two are
using Clarus Contra amps.
This has given me several opportunities to try the Contra with guitar
and compare it directly to my Clarus 2R II/T8-T. Each time I had the
same reaction—it sounded okay, but not as good as my rig. Not as much
projection, bass somewhat dry, didn't hold up as well at really high
volumes.
Despite these reservations, I recently had Bill Fender of Legato
Guitars (that's a plug—he's great to work with) send me a Clarus Coda
R. This version is a two-channel one, while the Contra has a single
channel. I had several intended uses: a backup for my main amp, a
rehearsal amp and an emergency PA for the vocalist with my jazz group.
On Monday I used it at a rehearsal with my jazz group—guitar, 5-string
bass through a small G-K), electric piano, drums, tenor sax and
singer. I played a Gibson Custom Shop L-5 CES with two P-90 pickups
and connected with a Klotz cable. I used the tilt-back leg. Controls
were at 12 o'clock, except I turned the Bass up to about 2 o'clock and
the Master to 3. Tweeter switch was on. Set Reverb to up about 1/4 way
using the H1 setting. This rehearsal is in a ballroom that seats 650.
We set up on a large stage and we frequently have a large audience, so
it's really not different from gig conditions, except for the lack of
pay.
The problem with doing direct comparisons between rigs is that when
you play you're only using one of them, so it doesn't matter if the
other sounds a little better (or maybe just different). Frankly, I
thought the L-5 through the Coda sounded gorgeous. Everyone was amazed
at how good it was, even at fairly high volumes. It really is
transparent—great jazz sound just seemed to be there. I had no
feedback problems with it, either. I was floored.
I also had my singer plug her mic into it (a Shure SM58). It did a
great job on her voice. So does the RE T8-T, for that matter.
Today I did a rehearsal with a swing choir (20 voices with the same
instrumentation as the previous one, but different players). This is
in a fairly small room and the volume is lower. The bass player uses a
full-size upright with a Contra. No one noticed that I was using a
different amp, which I thought was a good thing. This time I played a
Custom Shop Wes Montgomery with a single humbucker. Again, great
sound, no feedback.
Compared to the Clarus/RE, it saves about 12 pounds and a few minutes
of setup and take down. It's also much easier to re-position on the
stage (the Clarus/RE is a pain to move around once set up). Downside
is that it's harder to reach the controls and my spare picks keep
sliding off ( I finally put them on top of the XLR input—problem
solved. Both times I was playing in a chair, but I gig with a 30"
folding stool (Wal-Mart, $10! My second-best accessory), so the low
height will be more of a problem.
Compared to the T8-T it's probably more accurate, has wider range and
is a little smoother-sounding. I still think it doesn't hold up as
well at higher volumes, but it's very useable for most jazz playing.
It beats the heck out of any of the Polytones I've owned, or any other
small combo that I've used for jazz. It goes on my "extremely highly
recommended" list.
Danny W.
Mark Guest
Thanks for the review. If you have opportunity to do a side by side
comparison, I'd be interested in your comments also. I tried the Coda amp
briefly and found it to be too dry and sterile sounding for my tastes.
Accurate, but sterile. As a point of reference, I prefer the Clarus/T8
combo. I feel that the T8 (not the tower) adds some character to the sound.
--
Mark Guest
Mark at MarkGuest.net
www.MarkGuest.net
"Danny W." <Dann...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2bdb5e73.03032...@posting.google.com...
> Having used a Clarus head with a Raezer's Edge Twin 8 Tower for about
> 18 months, I've really come to appreciate how good a rig it is. Over
> that period I've played with big bands, small jazz groups, a swing
> choir, Dixie groups and even a '50's-style rock group (used a Stealth
> 12 ER for this). The venues ranged from small clubs and restaurants to
> large ballrooms and even the ASU Sundome, which seats 7,000 people on
> a single level! I always play at stage volume without further mic'ing
> or amplification. I play either full-depth or thin-body carved-top
> Gibsons, with a variety of pickup configurations. I don't currently
> have anything with nylon strings. The Clarus/RE always sounds great in
> any situation at any volume level I can tolerate.
>
> During this time I've worked with a number of bass players. I've had
> all of them plug into my amp. They were always amazed to hear a
> "guitar amp" sound so great with their bass. Results so far is that
> two of them are now using a Clarus 1A with an RE Bass 10 and two are
> using Clarus Contra amps.
>
> This has given me several opportunities to try the Contra with guitar
> and compare it directly to my Clarus 2R II/T8-T. Each time I had the
> same reaction-it sounded okay, but not as good as my rig. Not as much
> projection, bass somewhat dry, didn't hold up as well at really high
> volumes.
>
> Despite these reservations, I recently had Bill Fender of Legato
> Guitars (that's a plug-he's great to work with) send me a Clarus Coda
> R. This version is a two-channel one, while the Contra has a single
> channel. I had several intended uses: a backup for my main amp, a
> rehearsal amp and an emergency PA for the vocalist with my jazz group.
>
> On Monday I used it at a rehearsal with my jazz group-guitar, 5-string
> bass through a small G-K), electric piano, drums, tenor sax and
> singer. I played a Gibson Custom Shop L-5 CES with two P-90 pickups
> and connected with a Klotz cable. I used the tilt-back leg. Controls
> were at 12 o'clock, except I turned the Bass up to about 2 o'clock and
> the Master to 3. Tweeter switch was on. Set Reverb to up about 1/4 way
> using the H1 setting. This rehearsal is in a ballroom that seats 650.
> We set up on a large stage and we frequently have a large audience, so
> it's really not different from gig conditions, except for the lack of
> pay.
>
> The problem with doing direct comparisons between rigs is that when
> you play you're only using one of them, so it doesn't matter if the
> other sounds a little better (or maybe just different). Frankly, I
> thought the L-5 through the Coda sounded gorgeous. Everyone was amazed
> at how good it was, even at fairly high volumes. It really is
> transparent-great jazz sound just seemed to be there. I had no
> feedback problems with it, either. I was floored.
>
> I also had my singer plug her mic into it (a Shure SM58). It did a
> great job on her voice. So does the RE T8-T, for that matter.
>
> Today I did a rehearsal with a swing choir (20 voices with the same
> instrumentation as the previous one, but different players). This is
> in a fairly small room and the volume is lower. The bass player uses a
> full-size upright with a Contra. No one noticed that I was using a
> different amp, which I thought was a good thing. This time I played a
> Custom Shop Wes Montgomery with a single humbucker. Again, great
> sound, no feedback.
>
> Compared to the Clarus/RE, it saves about 12 pounds and a few minutes
> of setup and take down. It's also much easier to re-position on the
> stage (the Clarus/RE is a pain to move around once set up). Downside
> is that it's harder to reach the controls and my spare picks keep
> sliding off ( I finally put them on top of the XLR input-problem
Jay Carlson
I look forward to checking one out the next time I go to the states.
Jay
http://artists2.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Jay_Carlson/
David C. Stephens
everything Danny has to say. I haven't compared the efficiency of the T8-T
and the S12-ER to the Coda R, but my ear tells me that the RE cabs are way
more efficient (I will validate that with a SPL meter soon). Still, the Coda
does project very well. At my big band rehearsal last Sunday it cut through
very nicely, but we weren't playing at "performance" levels necessarily. The
room was large, but hard surfaced, so I wasn't really stressing it (I have
no trouble using a NY-8 in this same room).
My bottom-line preliminary assessment is that the Coda R is perfectly suited
to amplify either nylon-string or steel-string flat top guitars. It really
gets every nuance of the sound. Archtop players that play fingerstyle will
also, almost certainly, love the Coda R (or Contra R if they don't need the
extra channel). Many "jazz" archtop players will think it's too sterile.
Those that love the warmth of a RE T8 (not T8-T, but plain ole T8) will
almost certainly not like the Coda or Contra. It's missing a lower midrange
core that many desire and require. That said, there are many archtop players
that like a very accurate, natural tone. For this group, the little Acoustic
Image combos are very attractive packages.
Some players may run into headroom problems with the Coda/Contra combos.
They play loud, but I've found that a 3 dB difference in efficiency can make
a speaker unit not suitable for all loud gigs. For instance, I've tried
using a RE NY-8 on gigs and it works on most, but when it gets really loud
or the room is really dead, then something like a T8-T is needed so that
there's room to spare.
Dave
"Danny W." <Dann...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2bdb5e73.03032...@posting.google.com...
> Having used a Clarus head with a Raezer's Edge Twin 8 Tower for about
> 18 months, I've really come to appreciate how good a rig it is. Over
> that period I've played with big bands, small jazz groups, a swing
> choir, Dixie groups and even a '50's-style rock group (used a Stealth
> 12 ER for this). The venues ranged from small clubs and restaurants to
> large ballrooms and even the ASU Sundome, which seats 7,000 people on
> a single level! I always play at stage volume without further mic'ing
> or amplification. I play either full-depth or thin-body carved-top
> Gibsons, with a variety of pickup configurations. I don't currently
> have anything with nylon strings. The Clarus/RE always sounds great in
> any situation at any volume level I can tolerate.
>
> During this time I've worked with a number of bass players. I've had
> all of them plug into my amp. They were always amazed to hear a
> "guitar amp" sound so great with their bass. Results so far is that
> two of them are now using a Clarus 1A with an RE Bass 10 and two are
> using Clarus Contra amps.
>
> This has given me several opportunities to try the Contra with guitar
> and compare it directly to my Clarus 2R II/T8-T. Each time I had the
> same reaction-it sounded okay, but not as good as my rig. Not as much
> projection, bass somewhat dry, didn't hold up as well at really high
> volumes.
>
> Despite these reservations, I recently had Bill Fender of Legato
> Guitars (that's a plug-he's great to work with) send me a Clarus Coda
> R. This version is a two-channel one, while the Contra has a single
> channel. I had several intended uses: a backup for my main amp, a
> rehearsal amp and an emergency PA for the vocalist with my jazz group.
>
> On Monday I used it at a rehearsal with my jazz group-guitar, 5-string
> bass through a small G-K), electric piano, drums, tenor sax and
> singer. I played a Gibson Custom Shop L-5 CES with two P-90 pickups
> and connected with a Klotz cable. I used the tilt-back leg. Controls
> were at 12 o'clock, except I turned the Bass up to about 2 o'clock and
> the Master to 3. Tweeter switch was on. Set Reverb to up about 1/4 way
> using the H1 setting. This rehearsal is in a ballroom that seats 650.
> We set up on a large stage and we frequently have a large audience, so
> it's really not different from gig conditions, except for the lack of
> pay.
>
> The problem with doing direct comparisons between rigs is that when
> you play you're only using one of them, so it doesn't matter if the
> other sounds a little better (or maybe just different). Frankly, I
> thought the L-5 through the Coda sounded gorgeous. Everyone was amazed
> at how good it was, even at fairly high volumes. It really is
> transparent-great jazz sound just seemed to be there. I had no
> feedback problems with it, either. I was floored.
>
> I also had my singer plug her mic into it (a Shure SM58). It did a
> great job on her voice. So does the RE T8-T, for that matter.
>
> Today I did a rehearsal with a swing choir (20 voices with the same
> instrumentation as the previous one, but different players). This is
> in a fairly small room and the volume is lower. The bass player uses a
> full-size upright with a Contra. No one noticed that I was using a
> different amp, which I thought was a good thing. This time I played a
> Custom Shop Wes Montgomery with a single humbucker. Again, great
> sound, no feedback.
>
> Compared to the Clarus/RE, it saves about 12 pounds and a few minutes
> of setup and take down. It's also much easier to re-position on the
> stage (the Clarus/RE is a pain to move around once set up). Downside
> is that it's harder to reach the controls and my spare picks keep
> sliding off ( I finally put them on top of the XLR input-problem
Skip Moy
through a Clarus takes care of the headroom problems very neatly.
Skip
"David C. Stephens" <dcs...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:9iEga.1499$3q4.89...@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
David C. Stephens
the attractive thing about the Coda R is that it's only about the size of a
NY-8. There are compromises due to the size, but it comes awfully close to
the Clarus plus separate cabs.
Dave
"Skip Moy" <sm...@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:b5ve9s$b...@imsp212.netvigator.com...
Jay Carlson
> through a Clarus takes care of the headroom problems very neatly.
> Skip
I did just that, a couple weeks ago, (well, an S-12 & an VI-8- Virgin
Islands...:)
It was incredible how well it sounded, and how much spare power I had. I
was playing in a very big room with around 500 people, and had my Clarus pre
cranked up (my pick-up is on the quiet side, and a ways away from my
strings), but the Clarus master vol. only had to be up around 9 or 10
oclock. I bet I could have even done the job with the 8 alone. That's my
cab of choice/convenience lately. The 12 stays in the living room, and the
8 stays in my car.
Jay
http://artists2.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Jay_Carlson/
Adam Gottschalk
Dann...@cox.net (Danny W.) wrote:
> but I gig with a 30"
> folding stool (Wal-Mart, $10! My second-best accessory)
Thanks for the review...but I just thought I've warn you: I was using
the shorter version of the $10 Mal-Wart chair and it collapsed on me a
week or so ago. It gave me a decent year or so of use, but I never
subjected it to any undue stress. I'm now looking for a more permanent
but similarly convenient option.
Danny W.
to the RE, but when I played it in a group setting, I didn't feel that
way. I did have the reverb up a little higher than I would on with the
RE, and I felt it needed the bass boost謡ith the RE I usually set the
controls flat. The guitars I tried it with both have excellent sound.
I frequently gig with thin-body L-5's that don't sound as rich. These
still sound pretty good when I use the T8-T. I probably won't have a
chance to check them out with the Coda until I decide to do a gig with
it, since I almost never use them for rehearsals.
Dave has a good point about the relative sensitivity of the two
speaker systems. When I did my previous side-by-side comparisons I
adjusted both systems so they sounded equally loud. Tonight I set the
T8-T next to the Coda and plugged into the Coda head. I set all the
controls straight up, with the reverb and notch filter off. I played
D9-Eb9, 4th-5th position, about as hard as I comfortably could while
my wife held my Radio Shack sound level meter pointed at the Coda from
about 6' away. She had a reading of about 0db with the range switch at
60. Then I connected the Coda head to the T8-T without changing any
settings, and played at the same level.
This was a really, really bad idea. Really! The increase in apparent
volume level was shocking and so was the improvement in the quality of
the sound. Obviously, much of this relates to it being louder, but it
was still impressive. The difference in readings was about +10db! I
repeated the test with the weighting switch on the sound meter in the
C position and got the same relative difference, but at a higher
absolute level. It's likely that the difference isn't quite this high
because the meter doesn't have a peak-hold function, making it hard to
be certain of the exact reading, but it's at least 6-8 db, which is
significant.
If I had done this at the start, I'd probably have packed up the Coda
and sent it back to Bill Fender without even trying it in a playing
situation. Luckily the Clarus head has lots of power and adding some
bass boost helps even things out. This test doesn't take anything away
from the Coda; Acoustic Image's design goal was to trade volume for
accuracy to produce a great-sounding small amplifier, and I think
they've succeeded, but I don't plan to stop gigging with my RE
cabinets anytime soon.
Unfortunately, this pretty much shoots down using the T8-T as an
extension speaker. When I tried it, I really couldn't hear that the
Clarus speaker was adding anything. It's possible that the Stealth 12
ER will be close enough to make it workable, but the 12 ER is already
such a great-sounding full-range cabinet that it seems a shame to mix
it with anything other than another RE speaker. I will repeat this
test with the 12 ER when I have the time. Acoustic Image does make a
matching extension cabinet.
One other comment: I got the optional gig bag. It's very nicely
padded, but it seems to double the size of the amp and if you leave in
on the stage, your drummer will think it's his and take it home.
Danny W.
Danny W.
Yikes! What broke on it? I love this thing--I showed up at a gig a few
months ago with it and the next week my whole band had them (except
the drummer, of course). I don't mind buying a new one every year, but
I'm not sure I want to be playing when it gives out.
Danny W
Adam Gottschalk
Dann...@cox.net (Danny W.) wrote:
>
> Yikes! What broke on it? I love this thing--I showed up at a gig a few
> months ago with it and the next week my whole band had them (except
> the drummer, of course). I don't mind buying a new one every year, but
> I'm not sure I want to be playing when it gives out.
I was pretty surprised too because the thing does seem pretty sturdy.
Basically, where the legs meet the seat right underneath, where they
legs taper and get thinner, somehow the assembly just gave out and
wouldn't hold its "square" shape anymore. I weigh about 160 lbs give or
take so I don't think it was my weight. I tried bending back it to shape
once or twice but it didn't stay. Somehow the steel got tired. I'm not
sure.
David C. Stephens
>
> Dave has a good point about the relative sensitivity of the two
> speaker systems. When I did my previous side-by-side comparisons I
> adjusted both systems so they sounded equally loud. Tonight I set the
> T8-T next to the Coda and plugged into the Coda head. I set all the
> controls straight up, with the reverb and notch filter off. I played
> D9-Eb9, 4th-5th position, about as hard as I comfortably could while
> my wife held my Radio Shack sound level meter pointed at the Coda from
> about 6' away. She had a reading of about 0db with the range switch at
> 60. Then I connected the Coda head to the T8-T without changing any
> settings, and played at the same level.
>
> This was a really, really bad idea. Really! The increase in apparent
> volume level was shocking and so was the improvement in the quality of
> the sound. Obviously, much of this relates to it being louder, but it
> was still impressive. The difference in readings was about +10db! I
> repeated the test with the weighting switch on the sound meter in the
> C position and got the same relative difference, but at a higher
> absolute level. It's likely that the difference isn't quite this high
> because the meter doesn't have a peak-hold function, making it hard to
> be certain of the exact reading, but it's at least 6-8 db, which is
> significant.
You might want to order something like a Stereophile test CD. Using the
White Noise band you can get a repeatable comparison. Still, I think you're
right. It's a pretty big difference. It doesn't disqualify the Coda R for a
lot of players, but it's a consideration that must be judged, depending on
your usage.
Dave
Kevin Van Sant
<dcs...@swbell.net> wrote in message
<9iEga.1499$3q4.89...@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com> :
>My bottom-line preliminary assessment is that the Coda R is perfectly suited
>to amplify either nylon-string or steel-string flat top guitars. It really
>gets every nuance of the sound. Archtop players that play fingerstyle will
>also, almost certainly, love the Coda R (or Contra R if they don't need the
>extra channel). Many "jazz" archtop players will think it's too sterile.
>Those that love the warmth of a RE T8 (not T8-T, but plain ole T8) will
>almost certainly not like the Coda or Contra. It's missing a lower midrange
>core that many desire and require. That said, there are many archtop players
>that like a very accurate, natural tone. For this group, the little Acoustic
>Image combos are very attractive packages.
That's pretty much my assessment too. If one wants amplification for
an acoustic instrument I don't think there is any competition that
comes close. I don't even think an RE with a Clarus is a contender.
The AI combos are as you say perfectly suited for that task. One of
my students recently brought over a really nice Martin flattop with a
built in pickup system of some kind. I had her plug into the Coda so
I could hear that particular guitar through it, it was so transparent
I couldn't believe it. It sounded *exactly* like the acoustic guitar
only louder. No color whatsoever.
The only way I differ with your conclusions David is that I don't
describe the jazz archtop sound as necessarily "sterile" it is just
extremely natural or neutral, and many of us prefer the added
color/midrange/warmth... whatever you want to call it, that guitar
amps typically give. That is, an acoustic-ELECTRIC sound, instead of
just a louder acoustic sound. Maybe one would say sterile in the
context of being so accustomed to hearing the amp color the sound, and
here is one that doesn't. But this amp isn't to blame for our
conditioning to typical guitar amps :)
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
jazz guitar
http://www.kevinvansant.com
to buy my CDs, listen to sound clips, and get more info.
Alternate site for recent soundclips
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/kevinvansant_music.htm
David C. Stephens
"Kevin Van Sant" <kvan...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:p5lg8v4u3brvmodjt...@4ax.com...
Oh, I agree totally Kevin, it's not sterile (a poor choice of word, sense it
implies subtractive). I used that word because that's what most of those
desiring the acoustic-ELECTRIC sound would say. It's not hard or lean, just
"accurate" (well, relatively speaking).
I am still trying to decide about whether I prefer the RE S12-ER or Coda R
for acoustic flat tops and finger-style archtop. Mind you, I'm putting the
S12-ER on a stand and stuffing both ports with a size 9 to 11 black sock to
get some of the extra richness out. With that done and the tweeter turned up
to 3 o'clock, I'm getting some incredibly sweat sounds out of the RE. It's
got some extra sparkle that's not there in the Coda R (an advantage of that
adjustable tweeter). Of course, a single S12-ER is bigger than a Coda R AND
Extension cab.
I also think that the Coda R actually bumps up the very bottom of the bass
(like below 60 hz), but I haven't done any testing with sine waves yet. You
only hear this on the attacks of the low E using the thumb, but there's a
little extra thump that fades fast. (I suspect it's there for the bass
players of the world and I actually like it).
Compared to ANY OTHER "acoustic" combo amp I've heard, the Coda R SLAYS. No
nasalness or uglyness of any type and it's cute as can be. (My wife loves
the look).
Dave
Kevin Van Sant
<dcs...@swbell.net> wrote in message
<d3Zha.10692$m03.286...@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com> :
>Compared to ANY OTHER "acoustic" combo amp I've heard, the Coda R SLAYS. No
>nasalness or uglyness of any type and it's cute as can be. (My wife loves
>the look).
I refer to it as the vacuum cleaner amp :)
Danny W.
>
> You might want to order something like a Stereophile test CD. Using the
> White Noise band you can get a repeatable comparison. Still, I think you're
> right. It's a pretty big difference. It doesn't disqualify the Coda R for a
> lot of players, but it's a consideration that must be judged, depending on
> your usage.
>
> Dave
I have that CD, as well as a white noise generator, but I really
wanted to do the comparison with a guitar. I'm pretty good at playing
at a consistent level and really wasn't concerned with absolute
accuracy.
I think the biggest difference I notice between the two systems
(besides the huge difference in sensitivity) is that the RE T8-T
sounds "forward" while the Coda sounds"diffuse". With the RE you're
fully aware of where the sound source is (RE uses the word "focused"),
but with the Coda the sound is just there. It's somewhat disconcerting
switching between the two, but after a minute or two of playing,
either one sounds right. I used the Coda for a big band rehearsal on
Monday, and it performed flawlessly. I think I'll try it at the next
big band gig.