Ibanez Joe Pass JP-20

[Maj6th]

I ran into a man who has an Ibanez JP-20 for sale. Can anyone tell me;
what is the going price for this guitar? Also, any pros, cons, or
impressions, of this instrument.

Thanks

Maj6th

[Five Sharp]

We just discussed this guitar in the 175 thread. The pick-up placement on
that guitar is wrong. They don't sound too good therefore (tinny). I tried
one out myself. According to TD Joe Pass himself thought they sucked :)

#####

"Maj6th" <Maj...@dslextreme.com> schreef in bericht
news:SaSpm.122725$nL7....@newsfe18.iad...

[sheetsofsound]

I've seen them sell anywhere between $1250 and $1850. I wouldn't pay
more than $1500 for one. The cons are that the pickup is too far
towards the center of the instrument and it makes for a nasally/bright
tone. Having said that , there are folks who get a great tone out of
them such as Bob Roetker who occasionally posts here.

[Charlie X]

I played a few..you can get a much better tone from it than JP did...i
never understood why his sounded so tinny...with the right amp
settings, tone can be just fine.
They are SUPER playable...necks are typical Ibanez super easy to
play...i dont remember scale length..but i think they are 25.5? Too
big for me so i never bought one.

good luck!

[Maj6th]

No offence meant Five, but if a guitar is set up right, the pickup is set
right (and is a good one,), the strings are right, the amp is set right, and
the player is a pro, a cigar-box guitar would probably sound good. Some
people don't want to go the extra step; they want to buy it off the wall and
will play it. Those are the same people who try and solder their strings
once they are in tune.

Maj6th

"Five Sharp" <hjg.o...@onsbrabantnet.nl> wrote in message
news:4aa7f0bd$0$1206$6d5e...@onsnet.xlned.com...

[Maj6th]

This man also has an Ibanez Herb Ellis two pickup 175,
Same questions. Both these are from the 80's.

Maj6th

"Five Sharp" <hjg.o...@onsbrabantnet.nl> wrote in message
news:4aa7f0bd$0$1206$6d5e...@onsnet.xlned.com...

[Phil]

On Sep 9, 2:55 pm, "Maj6th" <Maj...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> No offence meant Five, but if a guitar is set up right, the pickup is set
> right (and is a good one,), the strings are right, the amp is set right, and
> the player is a pro, a cigar-box guitar would probably sound good.  Some
> people don't want to go the extra step; they want to buy it off the wall and
> will play it.  Those are the same people who try and solder their strings
> once they are in tune.
>
> Maj6th
>

> "Five Sharp" <hjg.onst...@onsbrabantnet.nl> wrote in message

>
> news:4aa7f0bd$0$1206$6d5e...@onsnet.xlned.com...
>
>
>
> > We just discussed this guitar in the 175 thread. The pick-up placement on
> > that guitar is wrong. They don't sound too good therefore (tinny). I tried
> > one out myself. According to TD Joe Pass himself thought they sucked :)
>
> > #####
>
> > "Maj6th" <Maj...@dslextreme.com> schreef in bericht
> >news:SaSpm.122725$nL7....@newsfe18.iad...
> >>I ran into a man who has an Ibanez JP-20 for sale.  Can anyone tell me;
> >>what is the going price for this guitar?  Also, any pros, cons, or
> >>impressions, of this instrument.
>
> >> Thanks
>

> >> Maj6th- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hey Maj6th, I think #####'s point is that the general consensus among
us obsessives is that the pickup isn't in a great place for a classic
jazz tone, Its in toward the center too far from the sweet spot (24th
"fret" harmonic.)

[Maj6th]

Sorry, I meant Aria Pro 80's Herb Ellis.

Maj6th

"Maj6th" <Maj...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:1fTpm.156408$8B7.1...@newsfe20.iad...

[Maj6th]

Thanks, my response was about 90% tongue in cheek. I was looking for more
objective comments, as yours was.

Maj6th

"Phil" <pdem...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f3588230-5ff0-4821...@g23g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...

[Phil]

On Sep 9, 3:32 pm, "Maj6th" <Maj...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> Sorry, I meant Aria Pro 80's Herb Ellis.
>
> Maj6th
>
> "Maj6th" <Maj...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1fTpm.156408$8B7.1...@newsfe20.iad...
>
>
>
> > This man also has an Ibanez Herb Ellis two pickup 175,
> > Same questions.  Both these are from the 80's.
>
> > Maj6th
>

> > "Five Sharp" <hjg.onst...@onsbrabantnet.nl> wrote in message

> >news:4aa7f0bd$0$1206$6d5e...@onsnet.xlned.com...
> >> We just discussed this guitar in the 175 thread. The pick-up placement on
> >> that guitar is wrong. They don't sound too good therefore (tinny). I
> >> tried one out myself. According to TD Joe Pass himself thought they
> >> sucked :)
>
> >> #####
>
> >> "Maj6th" <Maj...@dslextreme.com> schreef in bericht
> >>news:SaSpm.122725$nL7....@newsfe18.iad...
> >>>I ran into a man who has an Ibanez JP-20 for sale.  Can anyone tell me;
> >>>what is the going price for this guitar?  Also, any pros, cons, or
> >>>impressions, of this instrument.
>
> >>> Thanks
>

> >>> Maj6th- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Now THAT's a great guitar. Love the Aria Pro II HE model. PF-175 I
believe?

[Maj6th]

How much would you pay for this guitar?

Maj6th

"Phil" <pdem...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:ed6e347f-ae15-4a6c...@38g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...

[Five Sharp]

My comment on that guitar sums up what has been said about this guitar here
for years by numerous people. Hence Jack's identical reply. So my comment
was pretty objective indeed. I must admit I did not really understand your
reply though.

#####

"Maj6th" <Maj...@dslextreme.com> schreef in bericht

news:CtTpm.156413$8B7.1...@newsfe20.iad...

[Five Sharp]

> Now THAT's a great guitar. Love the Aria Pro II HE model. PF-175 I
believe?

I agree. Much better choice and probably much cheaper too.

#####

[Phil]

On Sep 9, 3:59 pm, "Maj6th" <Maj...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> How much would you pay for this guitar?
>
> Maj6th
>

> "Phil" <pdema...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> believe?- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

How much are you willing to pay? (see Conti Guitars thread.)

Just kidding, Below 1K?

[lukejazz]

On Sep 9, 1:55 pm, "Maj6th" <Maj...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> No offence meant Five, but if a guitar is set up right, the pickup is set
> right (and is a good one,), the strings are right, the amp is set right, and
> the player is a pro, a cigar-box guitar would probably sound good.  Some
> people don't want to go the extra step; they want to buy it off the wall and
> will play it.  Those are the same people who try and solder their strings
> once they are in tune.
>
> Maj6th
>

> "Five Sharp" <hjg.onst...@onsbrabantnet.nl> wrote in message

>
> news:4aa7f0bd$0$1206$6d5e...@onsnet.xlned.com...
>
> > We just discussed this guitar in the 175 thread. The pick-up placement on
> > that guitar is wrong. They don't sound too good therefore (tinny). I tried
> > one out myself. According to TD Joe Pass himself thought they sucked :)
>
> > #####
>
> > "Maj6th" <Maj...@dslextreme.com> schreef in bericht
> >news:SaSpm.122725$nL7....@newsfe18.iad...
> >>I ran into a man who has an Ibanez JP-20 for sale.  Can anyone tell me;
> >>what is the going price for this guitar?  Also, any pros, cons, or
> >>impressions, of this instrument.
>
> >> Thanks
>
> >> Maj6th

Speaking of cigar box guitars - check these out:

http://www.snowdenguitars.com/

Luke
www.lukejazz.com

[Maj6th]

Sorry; I had expected answers like; The radius is too X, the bindings are X,
the electronics are to X and should be Y, the bracing is, etc. etc. I was
looking for a more objective criterion that removed the subjective areas
like setup, or what someone else thought about it unless it was coupled with
an objective critique.

It was just a kneejerk reaction because I hear people saying, "that guitar
sucks," without any explanation. I'm not talking about you, I
over-reactive, and it happened to be your post, sorry..

Maj6th

"Five Sharp" <hjg.o...@onsbrabantnet.nl> wrote in message

news:4aa8095a$0$12756$6d5e...@onsnet.xlned.com...

[Maj6th]

That was good and quick as well; You're a funny guy Phil.

Maj6th

"Phil" <pdem...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:a0f6008d-7146-4cb3...@z24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

[skrohn]

I had the Aria.
Heavy Guitar.
Good Build Quality.
Big Dark sound but lifeless.
Did not enjoy playing it.
Sold it.
Saw one on Ebay recently for 799.
Scott

[Five Sharp]

> It was just a kneejerk reaction because I hear people saying, "that guitar
> sucks," without any explanation. I'm not talking about you, I
> over-reactive, and it happened to be your post, sorry..
>
> Maj6th

I was quoting big Joe himself who apparently said this to TD about the
Ibanez Joe Pass. No harm done, like I said I did not understand it anyway :)

#####

[Joe Montgomery]

On Sep 9, 11:08 am, "Maj6th" <Maj...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> I ran into a man who has an Ibanez JP-20 for sale.  Also, any pros, cons, or
> impressions, of this instrument.

I've only run across one, owned by a friend who played primarily solo
guitar arrangements of standards. He primarily wanted an acoustic
sound with an electric sound just underneath it, if that makes sense.
He was also notorious for trying to find the smallest amp possible
with a decent sound, more for portability than anything else.

He changed pickups 3-4 times and finally settled on a Seymour Duncan
HB (don't know which one).

I personally didn't like the sound for jazz but he liked it for his
song arrangements...worked well for him in noisy restaurants.

god luck.
jm

[sheetsofsound]

Here's a clip of Bob Roetker playing one. Doesn't sound Tinny to
me. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6EU8cZxQyA

[Mark Cleary]

I have played them a they just are not worth that much to me. I would
not spend more that 1k on them. I think it is easy to get a better
guitar for 1/2 the price or simply spend a bit more and get a Gibson
Howard Roberts or 165.

I think because Joe played one and it is his model it makes a normal
$750 guitar now $1500. I still find the sound of Joe and his 175 to be
the best and when he was going for acoustic sound the D'aquisto.

--
Deacon Mark Cleary
Epiphany Roman Catholic Church

[Bg]

The Pickup looks Black, he might have installed an Active pickup of
some sort.
That said, he sounds and plays really Great.
Bg

[Dave Scott]

I owned one for awhile, back in the 80's when they first came out -
one of the nicest necks I think I ever played. 1&3/4 nut width, and I
believe a 25&1/2 scale. Shallow "C" radius made it very comfortable.
The pickup placement was horrible and I couldn't stand the sound as a
result. I considered returning it at the time because of the sound,
but I ended up keeping it for a few months and then sold it. I could
never take it on a gig because it was just too thin. That being said,
I think Joe Pass used some of the attributes of the neck shape when
Gibson designed the thin "175" he used later in life.

Dave

[Dan Adler]

On Sep 9, 2:08 pm, "Maj6th" <Maj...@dslextreme.com> wrote:

I saw Barry Zweig play one a couple of years ago and he got such a
great sound out of it I was seriously thinking of getting one at the
time. I mentioned it here, but I can't find it on the google archives.
Found the thread in some other archive:

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz/2007-04/msg01202.html

-Dan
http://danadler.com

[Keith]

I always loved the look of the Ibanez JP20. I have owned three of them
over the years, but I ended up selling each of them after a short
time. You would think I would learn my lesson after one or two, but
every time I saw one for a good price I bought it. I really wanted to
like that guitar. Unfortunately, I liked everything about it except
the pickup placement and I would have preferred a 24.75" scale. I
discussed the JP20 with Joe Pass once and he told me he wasn't happy
with the placement of the pickup either. He said that was the reason
he asked Gibson to put the pickup tight against the fingerboard on the
Custom 175 they made for him a few years before he passed away. Other
than that design issue, the high-end Ibanez guitars of that era were
very high quality instruments.
Keith

[Ken Berg]

I bought mine used for $395 from Dave Rogers and added a Bartolini 1C-TA
humbucker. I almost never play open position, so the 24th fret harmonic
alignment doesn't apply to my playing. I get plenty of bass with a well
adjusted pickup assembly.

It's a better axe than my D'Angelico from the fire sale last year.

"Maj6th" <Maj...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message

news:SaSpm.122725$nL7....@newsfe18.iad...

[Phil]

Very interesting how far over the neck he is picking. I often do this
to compensate on guitars that sound too bright-middy to get a deeper
sound, the disadvantage is the string tension is lower and less
"snappy". Anyway, I don't need to do this (compensate) on let's say
an ES-175. The sweet spot there seems to be over the pickup poles, or
just next to the pickup (toward the bridge.)

[sheetsofsound]

Not sure I agree. His best sound was the 175. The Daquisto sound on
virtuoso was nasally to me. I think those ibanez guitars are great.
Did you listen to Bob's clips? Nothings wrong with that.

[pmfan57]

I don't think he played the D'Aquisto on Virtuoso. I think he played
the 175 dry. But I also seem to recall that they had a mike mix and
the electric mix, the latter of which was lost somehow. There is one
track with the amplified guitar. I saw him live the the D'Aquisto and
it didn't seem like the greatest guitar for Joe. Buzzed like hell on
the low E.

[Tim McNamara]

In article <X_Ypm.208650$vp.1...@newsfe12.iad>,
"Ken Berg" <ken....@lycos.com> wrote:

> I bought mine used for $395 from Dave Rogers

I used to live in La Crosse. Dave's Guitars is a major supplier of
guitar porn. Man. It's a much bigger shop now.

[pmfan57]

On Sep 9, 2:28 pm, Charlie X <charliexgui...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I played a few..you can get a much better tone from it than JP did...i
> never understood why his sounded so tinny...with the right amp
> settings, tone can be just fine.
> They are SUPER playable...necks are typical Ibanez super easy to
> play...i dont remember scale length..but i think they are 25.5?  Too
> big for me so i never bought one.
>
> good luck!

I agree. I am not anywhere near JP as a player obviously, but I had
no trouble getting a great sound with the JP-20. And it played great
and NEVER went out of tune. Ibanez was rock solid construction in the
80's, far superior to what Gibson was making.

Pickup was a little too far back but you can easily overcome that with
tone controls, finger attack and pick attack. It didn't sound good
when Joe played it, and that's all that really matters.

[pmfan57]

On Sep 9, 6:46 pm, sheetsofsound <jackzuc...@gmail.com> wrote:

That sounds great. The guitar obviously can sound great. It
definitely played like butter.

[Joe Giglio]

> http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.music.makers.guitar.j...
>
> -Danhttp://danadler.com

does larry carlton ever play one? LOL

[Phil]

On Sep 9, 2:08 pm, "Maj6th" <Maj...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> I ran into a man who has an Ibanez JP-20 for sale.  Can anyone tell me;
> what is the going price for this guitar?  Also, any pros, cons, or
> impressions, of this instrument.
>
> Thanks
>
> Maj6th

How much does the fellow want for the Aria Herb Ellis? All original?
(Especially ask about the pickguard -- impossible to find a
replacement -- since they had Herb's initials engraved.)

[Charlie X]

Hey Maj 6th...if u dont buy it ..tell your guy ill take it for
$1350...LOL!

[Maj6th]

Well I went to play the two guitars today:

The Ibanez Herb Ellis is in excellent shape, it does have a very nice tone,
very dark. The setup is very good and everything looks good as well. He is
asking too much, so I didn't buy it. There are two on EBay, both have
reasons not to buy. The neck is probably in the 24.75 range. The neck
feels thicker than I like. The case is a HSC in medium shape.

The Aria Pro JP has a three piece neck and plays itself. It too, has a
great neck and is setup well. There is no pickguard, and it isn't in the
original HSC. There is a about a three inch crack in the side-bottom. It
hasn't broken through the finish, but it looks like it in the body. There
is a small half inch crack off the input jack but I think it is a stress
mark from the jack. It too could be in the finish. For those who said that
the neck is a good player, you understated the case; absolutely great feel.
The pickup is treble'ly, but a different pickup would solve the sound
problem. I don't know about placement, I didn't measure it but from my
experience all D'Aquisto guitars had the pickup in the same placement.
This is from the late seventies from the headstock design.

I would buy the JP if the price was reasonable, it wouldn't be a good
investment piece because of the crack but it would be a player. There is
also a screw missing from the tailpiece and a gold triangular piece of metal
under the strap holder. I have no idea what this is, my guess is that it
somehow reinforces the body to prevent the crack from lengthening, but I
have no idea how.

If anyone is interested I would be more than glad to act as a middleman.

The Ibanez is on craigslist but the JP hasn't been listed. My hope is that
I discouraged him enough to offer me the JP at about $350.00 J He is asking
$1150.00 for each; this is way too much. I told him about the two Ibanez HE
on EBay, one for $619, and one for $799, so he might come down quite a bit.
He is going to call me to give me a price on the JP since I pointed out the
crack.

Maj6th.

"Five Sharp" <hjg.o...@onsbrabantnet.nl> wrote in message
news:4aa7f0bd$0$1206$6d5e...@onsnet.xlned.com...
> We just discussed this guitar in the 175 thread. The pick-up placement on
> that guitar is wrong. They don't sound too good therefore (tinny). I tried
> one out myself. According to TD Joe Pass himself thought they sucked :)
>
> #####
>
>
> "Maj6th" <Maj...@dslextreme.com> schreef in bericht
> news:SaSpm.122725$nL7....@newsfe18.iad...

[TD]

On Sep 9, 4:31 pm, skrohn <skr...@optonline.net> wrote:
> I had the Aria.
> Heavy Guitar.
> Good Build Quality.
> Big Dark sound but lifeless.
> Did not enjoy playing it.
> Sold it.
> Saw one on Ebay recently for 799.
> Scott
>
>
>
> Maj6th wrote:
> > Sorry, I meant Aria Pro 80's Herb Ellis.
>
> > Maj6th
>
> > "Maj6th" <Maj...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
> >news:1fTpm.156408$8B7.1...@newsfe20.iad...
> >> This man also has an Ibanez Herb Ellis two pickup 175,
> >> Same questions.  Both these are from the 80's.
>
> >> Maj6th
>

> >> "Five Sharp" <hjg.onst...@onsbrabantnet.nl> wrote in message

> >>news:4aa7f0bd$0$1206$6d5e...@onsnet.xlned.com...
> >>> We just discussed this guitar in the 175 thread. The pick-up placement on
> >>> that guitar is wrong. They don't sound too good therefore (tinny). I
> >>> tried one out myself. According to TD Joe Pass himself thought they
> >>> sucked :)
>
> >>> #####
>
> >>> "Maj6th" <Maj...@dslextreme.com> schreef in bericht
> >>>news:SaSpm.122725$nL7....@newsfe18.iad...
> >>>> I ran into a man who has an Ibanez JP-20 for sale.  Can anyone tell me;
> >>>> what is the going price for this guitar?  Also, any pros, cons, or
> >>>> impressions, of this instrument.
>
> >>>> Thanks
>

> >>>> Maj6th- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Nicely constructed prose, Scott.

[Bob Roetker]

Thanks for posting that link Jack. In all fairness, though, I
immediately replaced the stock pickup with a Bartolini which helped
cancel out some of the brightness due to pickup placement.

Bob

On Sep 9, 6:46 pm, sheetsofsound <jackzuc...@gmail.com> wrote:

[pmfan57]

> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6EU8cZxQyA- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I wonder who decided that a Joe Pass model should have the pickup back
from the neck. As I said before, even with the stock pickup it's
possible to get a nice sound, but it is brighter generally. And it's
obvious from the recorded evidence that Joe Pass wasn't going to
change his style in order to get a warmer sound.

[Maj6th]

He wants $1150.00

Maj6th

"Phil" <pdem...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:95536738-422a-4564...@a7g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...

[Maj6th]

He wants $1150.00

Maj6th

"Charlie X" <charlie...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cbc8c9cd-b006-4728...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...

[Charlie X]

1150??? i never saw one that cheap...i would take it...can always sell
it for more i would think..or at the very least get ur money back.

[richardgrei...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, September 9, 2009 11:08:45 AM UTC-7, Maj6th wrote:
> I ran into a man who has an Ibanez JP-20 for sale. Can anyone tell me;
> what is the going price for this guitar? Also, any pros, cons, or
> impressions, of this instrument.
>
> Thanks
>
> Maj6th

I just bought a 1980 Joe Jazz Ibanez. I love it. It has a great tone. Definitely reminds me of the sound of Joe Pass. That was the guitar Joe travelled internationally with. I highly recommend it. I don't have any complaints about the guitar.

[ott...@hotmail.com]

It has a different Black Pickup, it might well be one those Active pickups like Ron Eschete and Lorne Lofsky use, more control over EQ.
Bg

[cjenki...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, September 9, 2009 2:08:45 PM UTC-4, Maj6th wrote:
> I ran into a man who has an Ibanez JP-20 for sale. Can anyone tell me;
> what is the going price for this guitar? Also, any pros, cons, or
> impressions, of this instrument.
>
> Thanks
>
> Maj6th

Despite the negative comments this is an incredible sounding guitar......roll the tone off and you get an unbelievable warm, round sound with no trace of boomy-ness. I like where they put that pickup with the exception of bumping into it frequently. You can easily attain the "Pat" sound with that axe if that's what your looking for and it is very high quality.

[Gerry]

The OP was from 2009; that guitar has likely been bought and sold a
couple of times by now.
--
Those who wish to sing always find a song. -- Swedish proverb

[cjenki...@gmail.com]

:) didn't notice......that guitar gets WAY too much bad press though.

[GuyB]

While it's the internet after all, my opinion, the Ibanez Joe Pass guitar sounds good in the right hands and bad in the wrong hands. I have a pair of the latter. Guy :)

[Tim McNamara]

On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 06:54:22 -0800 (PST), GuyB
<Recordi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, 6 February 2014 04:11:21 UTC, cjenki...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 12:29:01 AM UTC-5, Gerry wrote:
>>
>> > On 2014-02-05 03:44:17 +0000, cjenki...@gmail.com said:
>>
>> > > On Wednesday, September 9, 2009 2:08:45 PM UTC-4, Maj6th wrote:
>>
>> > >> I ran into a man who has an Ibanez JP-20 for sale. Can anyone
>> > >> tell me; what is the going price for this guitar? Also, any
>> > >> pros, cons, or impressions, of this instrument.
>>

>> > > Despite the negative comments this is an incredible sounding
>> > > guitar......roll the tone off and you get an unbelievable warm,
>> > > round sound with no trace of boomy-ness. I like where they put
>> > > that pickup with the exception of bumping into it frequently. You
>> > > can easily attain the "Pat" sound with that axe if that's what
>> > > your looking for and it is very high quality.
>>
>> > The OP was from 2009; that guitar has likely been bought and sold a
>> > couple of times by now.
>>

> While it's the internet after all, my opinion, the Ibanez Joe Pass
> guitar sounds good in the right hands and bad in the wrong hands. I
> have a pair of the latter. Guy :)

LOL!

Listening to some YouTube videos of Joe Pass with that guitar, he didn't
sound all that good with it either- although his tone is quite variable
on different recordings and I have been of the impression that he didn't
really obsess about tone. He focused on playing the music. I think
some of his very best tone was at the end of his career when he was
playing the custom Gibson- some of those performances sound just
magnificent in terms of tone as well as musicality. I think Joe's
playing matured throughout his performing career.

The JP20 appears to have been intended to be like Joe's ES-175 and
D'Aquisto with the pickup set away from the end of the neck. The JP20
has 22 frets, putting the pickup effectively at about the 26th-27th
fret. His ES-175 had 20 frets, putting the pickup at about the 24th
fret. Hs D'Aquisto also appears to have had 20 frets. I think that is
at least part of the difference between Joe's sound on the JP-20 versus
the ES-175 and the D'Aquisto. That said, there are some varieties of
tone that can be obtained on these axes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8B3YN1GcIA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9b18Zf6XRk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kflvDt2EqP0

The necks on that year of Ibanez are always outstanding. I have a 1981
GB10 that is a monstrously fine instrument that I have had for over 25
years (and should play more, I keep trying to make my 17" carvetop my
primary guitar but the Ibanez really does sound better amplified).

[jaz]

i agree. I think it was stupidity on the part of the ibanez technicians who put the guitar together out of existing body and neck specs and didn't realize that just pushing the pickup 2 inches from the neck on a 22 fret guitar was going to sound like poo

[cjenki...@gmail.com]

except, it sounds great! thinking back on it what really bothered me about that instrument was the incredibly thin neck.....unless i'm confusing it with another

[Jonathan]

On Friday, February 7, 2014 8:39:50 PM UTC-5, Tim McNamara wrote:

I like the jumbo frets Ibanez puts on their guitars.
Makes them very playable.

[jaz]

no it doesn't. It's bright and tinny and even joe pass didn't like it. That's why it got canceled so quickly

[Tim McNamara]

On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 07:45:23 -0800 (PST), jaz <jackz...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Saturday, February 8, 2014 3:08:22 PM UTC-5, Jonathan wrote:
>> On Friday, February 7, 2014 8:39:50 PM UTC-5, Tim McNamara wrote:
>>
>> > The JP20 appears to have been intended to be like Joe's ES-175 and
>> > D'Aquisto with the pickup set away from the end of the neck. The
>> > JP20 has 22 frets, putting the pickup effectively at about the
>> > 26th-27th fret. His ES-175 had 20 frets, putting the pickup at
>> > about the 24th fret. Hs D'Aquisto also appears to have had 20
>> > frets. I think that is at least part of the difference between
>> > Joe's sound on the JP-20 versus the ES-175 and the D'Aquisto.

>> [...]
>>
>> > The necks on that year of Ibanez are always outstanding [...]

>>
>> I like the jumbo frets Ibanez puts on their guitars.
>>
>> Makes them very playable.
>
> no it doesn't. It's bright and tinny and even joe pass didn't like it.
> That's why it got canceled so quickly

Well, the necks are really playable which is what I think was the point.
The sound, well not so much although some folks manage to get a pretty
good tone out of them. I wonder if having a luthier move the pickup up
to the end of the neck would fix it or if there are other issues. The
cost of doing so would be just silly, however. Maybe pull out the built
in pickup, plug the hole and use an old monkey on a stick pickup. Or
could be that one could get a pickup wound in a way to compensate for
the awkward position. What a lot of trouble, though. Too bad, those
were nice looking axes with a nice comfortable size and great necks.

He sure played that guitar a lot in public, though. Seems like half the
videos on YouTube have Joe playing that guitar- more than the videos of
him playing the ES-175 or the D'Aquisto. I wonder if he used the Ibanez
for travel such as Europe or Japan, rather than the D'Aquisto, and that
it just happens to be a period in which he was on TV more. The later
videos where he is playing the custom Gibson that looks sort of like a
slightly thinner ES-175 with the pickup right against the fingerboard
sound great. That is a magnificent instrument. There are a goodly
number of videos from the end of Joe's career and he was playing great,
more musical than ever.

In order of preference I would rate that guitar, followed by his
original ES-175, then the D'Aquisto and lastly the Ibanez.

I had read somewhere that Joe stopped traveling with an amp and used a
DI box to go straight to the PA, which might account for why his sound
differs so much in different videos. He sounds best when he's got an
amp on stage, IMHO, rather than going into the PA. In one of the
articles I read in the past few days, the author noted that Joe's
touring style was "turn up with a guitar and half of a pick."

[jaz]

that's not a bad idea. Put a floating pickup on it attached to the neck. But pulling the original pickup is pretty drastic. Why not just buy a PM-100 instead?

[van]

Actually, the real story on that is that JP pulled a fast one, and got the plans for a D'Aquisto from Jimmy D., and gave them to Ibanez without Jimmy's permission.
Ibanez was forced to take that guitar off the market in a year.
Jimmy D. didn't talk to JP for years over that one.
During that period, JP did a gig in NYC, and he needed a bassplayer, so he called Jimmy D.(who was a good electric bass player).
Jimmy did the gig, and didn't say a word to JP the entire night.
When the gig was over, he just unplugged his bass and walked out without ever saying one word to JP.
Eventually, they made up and became friends again.
It's too bad they had to put that pickup where they did. Otherwise, it might have been a good guitar.

[John A]

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 12:00:38 PM UTC-5, Tim McNamara wrote:

> He sure played that guitar a lot in public, though. Seems like half the
>
> videos on YouTube have Joe playing that guitar- more than the videos of
>
> him playing the ES-175 or the D'Aquisto.

He was paid to play the Ibanez, during the period when he was popular and prolifically recorded, and when videos were an important marketing tie-in. It's not surprising that he used the guitar a lot in that period.

> I wonder if he used the Ibanez
>
> for travel such as Europe or Japan, rather than the D'Aquisto, and that
>
> it just happens to be a period in which he was on TV more.

My guess (purely a guess) is that he played the Ibanez in markets where he was required to by his contract with Ibanez, and that he played other instruments when he didn't have to play the Ibanez.

>
> I had read somewhere that Joe stopped traveling with an amp and used a
>
> DI box to go straight to the PA,

I witnessed it (at the Blue Note in NY), and heard him say onstage that he liked to just bring his guitar with him and liked the sound of just the guitar.

John

[TD]

I asked Joe many years ago what's with the Ibanez? His reply, "They're paying me 25K a year to be seen performing with it." I had heard that the guitar really messed him up one night while accompanying Ella. That was when I believe he had finally had enough.

[Tim McNamara]

On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 10:09:50 -0800 (PST), jaz <jackz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, February 9, 2014 12:00:38 PM UTC-5, Tim McNamara wrote:
>>

>> [...] I wonder if having a luthier move the pickup up to the end of

>> the neck would fix it or if there are other issues. The cost of
>> doing so would be just silly, however. Maybe pull out the built in
>> pickup, plug the hole and use an old monkey on a stick pickup. Or
>> could be that one could get a pickup wound in a way to compensate for
>> the awkward position. What a lot of trouble, though. Too bad, those
>> were nice looking axes with a nice comfortable size and great necks.
>

> that's not a bad idea. Put a floating pickup on it attached to the
> neck. But pulling the original pickup is pretty drastic. Why not just
> buy a PM-100 instead?

Yeah, it'd be a lot of messing around. I suppose if one already had the
JP20 and really liked everything but the tone, it might be worth
exploring some options. But a different guitar would be a much easier
solution.

[Tim McNamara]

On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 14:56:48 -0800 (PST), TD <tonyde...@gmail.com>

I did not know that he was paid to play the Ibanez. Good for him for
making at least some money out of playing jazz, which is pretty danged
challenging and has been for 50 years, on top of whatever he earned from
record sales and gigs. I would suspect that the former was probably
pretty small and the latter was highly variable.

Thanks, John and Tony, for that information.

Too bad that Ibanez didn't just fix the problem, which was pretty
evident and shouldn't have been that hard to fix: just move the doggone
pickup...

[jaz]

the d'aquisto I saw him playing had the pickup against the neck. So is the d'aquisto he's pictured on the cover with on his Joe Pass Solos book which came out in the '70s.

[TD]

The guitar had more than pick-up problems as was told to me. Had severe intonation problems, as well. At least, the one he was playing.

[cjenki...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 10:45:23 AM UTC-5, jaz wrote:

The guitar has a really nice sound and it seems they we're pulled over a legal issue...... your logic would exclude many guitars because JP didn't like them? Interesting.

[jaz]

this is becoming a "typical" rmmgj thread. All I'm saying is that the guitar is bright and tinny *IMO* and that Joe Pass - who's name is on the guitar - agrees. How you'd turn that into logic that excludes any guitars that he doesn't like is so rmmgj

[Jonathan]

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 10:45:23 AM UTC-5, jaz wrote:

I think it depends on your technique. I like jumbo frets, but I play with a very light touch.

[cjenki...@gmail.com]

sorry, understood....an internet thing maybe. i havent participated much in this group much over the years, so have no idea about the history here.

[jaz]

i like jumbo frets too. I was replying to something different. I was replying to the sound of the guitar. For me jumbo frets is the standard. I was surprised when I recently tried an engel guitar that he uses a smaller fret.

[TD]

That's easy. He was simply coming in from a different Engel.

[Gerry]

On 2014-02-10 15:43:47 +0000, cjenki...@gmail.com said:

>>> The guitar has a really nice sound and it seems they we're pulled over
>>> a legal issue...... your logic would exclude many guitars because JP
>>> didn't like them? Interesting.
>>
>> this is becoming a "typical" rmmgj thread. All I'm saying is that the
>> guitar is bright and tinny *IMO* and that Joe Pass - who's name is on
>> the guitar - agrees. How you'd turn that into logic that excludes any
>> guitars that he doesn't like is so rmmgj
>
> sorry, understood....an internet thing maybe. i havent participated
> much in this group much over the years, so have no idea about the
> history here.

What is "typical" here is different depending on whose doing the
characterizing. A difference of opinion can be seen as a personal
attack very easily. This is typical of usenet, not just rmmgj.

[Jonathan]

You have to be quite a Marxman to hit all those Engels!

[van]

My post was about the Ibanez JP 20, not a D'Aquisto.

[GuyB]

I've no real evidence, but on several occasions over the years I've read that the Ibanez JP20 was jointly designed by Joe Pass and an Englishman named Maurice Summerfield. Maybe if this info is posted again, again and again it becomes the truth.

Here's the same info yet, again:
http://www.archtop.com/ac_80JP20.html

[van]

If you read that link you sent again, you'd notice that it said that the JP-20 was built as a copy of the "hand built D'Aquisto that Joe had built for himself."
As I said, the real story is that Joe gave Ibanez either his D'Aquisto,or the plans that he got from D'Aquisto without Jimmy D.'s permission and Ibanez made a copy of it and called it the JP-20. Jimmy D'Aquisto found out and it was taken off the market. Jimmy didn't get one cent for it.
I don't know whose idea it was to place the pickup in the middle, but that probably gives it the tinny sound someone mentioned.
When I found this out, I was thinking of getting one, but it would be too much
trouble to re-locate the pickup. You'd be better off getting a Fender D'Aquisto.

[Tim McNamara]

On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 19:23:01 -0800 (PST), TD <tonyde...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Huh. You'd think the one they gave Joe to play in public for them would
have had those kinds of things sorted out. Intonation is not a mystery.

[Gerry]

You'd think as long as it said Ibanez on it he could take it to a
significant luthier and make the thing as right as necessary for Joe
Pass, of all people, to be playing for zillions of fans.

[jaz]

yes, i understand that but if you look at that guitar, it doesn't seem to be similar to d'aquisto other than the tailpiece. The rest of the guitar, the neck and the body molds were made from ibanez molds that they had used back in the '70s. And d'aquisto never placed a pickup in that position. I still stand by my original guess that the luthiers at ibanez moved the pickup into what they thought was the 175 position without taking into account the extra fret. I also heard this instrument was 25.5" scale? Is that right?

[TD]

Heard that it came on suddenly in the midst of a tune. Must have been much more profoundly involved. Intonation was a resultant, but one. I can see him deciding to throw such an endorsement into the toilet. I would have. Endorsements are peripheral, especially in that case.

[cjenki...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 6:33:41 AM UTC-5, jaz wrote:
> yes, i understand that but if you look at that guitar, it doesn't seem to be similar to d'aquisto other than the tailpiece. The rest of the guitar, the neck and the body molds were made from ibanez molds that they had used back in the '70s. And d'aquisto never placed a pickup in that position. I still stand by my original guess that the luthiers at ibanez moved the pickup into what they thought was the 175 position without taking into account the extra fret. I also heard this instrument was 25.5" scale? Is that right?

This is true- it has the same body as the fg100(?) and the pm20 from that time. Yes, the neck is 25.5

[GuyB]

Maurice Summerfield, who jointly designed the Ibanez Joe Pass Guitar, knows the reason why the strange pickup position was chosen. Just ask him.

[cjenki...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:01:11 AM UTC-5, GuyB wrote:
> Maurice Summerfield, who jointly designed the Ibanez Joe Pass Guitar, knows the reason why the strange pickup position was chosen. Just ask him.

I don't think it was arbitrary as some have suggested....would be interesting to here what the real story was.

[TD]

Gibson was placing it's pick-ups away from the neck for a while. My '68 175 has it that way. In spite of the fact that it's much better to have the PU at the base of the neck, this ax sounds marvelous. However, I never could get enough volume out of it, comparatively. Might be better to write to Gibson, if so interested.

[Gerry]

It will have to remain a mystery of our time.

[jaz]

on the ibanez joe pass it's even further back.

[TD]

Nuts.

[GuyB]

I'm trying to get hold of Maurice Summerfield, so I can ask him the details.

http://www.guitarfoundation.org/?HoFSummerfield

http://www.namm.org/library/oral-history/maurice-summerfield

[van]

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 6:33:41 AM UTC-5, jaz wrote:

> yes, i understand that but if you look at that guitar, it doesn't seem to be similar to d'aquisto other than the tailpiece. The rest of the guitar, the neck and the body molds were made from ibanez molds that they had used back in the '70s. And d'aquisto never placed a pickup in that position. I still stand by my original guess that the luthiers at ibanez moved the pickup into what they thought was the 175 position without taking into account the extra fret. I also heard this instrument was 25.5" scale? Is that right?

Actually, the person who told me about the whole history of the JP-20 said that Ibanez botched the whole job, besides that stupid pickup placement.

[jazzguy]

On Wednesday, September 9, 2009 11:08:45 AM UTC-7, Maj6th wrote:
> I ran into a man who has an Ibanez JP-20 for sale. Can anyone tell me;
> what is the going price for this guitar? Also, any pros, cons, or
> impressions, of this instrument.
>

> Thanks
>
> Maj6th

A friend had a JP-20....it was the only guitar he ever ordered before playing. He hated this model...said it would not stay in tune, and was a crappy guitar in general. He cased it and had his old L-5 refretted. He attributed the intonation to the extra frets. I have read the Joe Pass preferred his Gibson 175 over his Namesake Ibanez, but there are so many JP rumors. Good Luck!

[Gerry]

On 2014-02-11 19:16:00 +0000, TD said:

>> on the ibanez joe pass it's even further back.
>
> Nuts.

That's TOO far back.

[TD]

Don't try to make up.

[Gerry]

On 2014-02-12 00:45:19 +0000, TD said:

> On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 6:13:43 PM UTC-5, Gerry wrote:
>> On 2014-02-11 19:16:00 +0000, TD said:
>>
>>>> on the ibanez joe pass it's even further back.
>>>
>>> Nuts.
>>
>> That's TOO far back.
>

> Don't try to make up.

Nah; I'm always friendly, you old coot. Try it sometime!

[cjenki...@gmail.com]

I think gibson was doing it because it sounded good....but I still contend that the JP20 sounds great with the tone rolled completely off-although it appears I'm alone in that :) Like the sound or not it *was* a very nice instrument, top of the line for ibanez at the time. You guys are making me want to get another one.....I'd hate the thin neck all over again though.

[Tim McNamara]

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 04:41:08 -0800 (PST), TD <tonyde...@gmail.com>

Man, that'd be a pisser. Makes me wonder if a brace popped off or
cracked or if the top cracked (or some other structural problem). At
some point the money isn't worth the problems.

[Mr. Maj6th]

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:38:43 -0800 (PST), cjenki...@gmail.com

I've bought one about ten years and it immediatelly became my main
guitar. It plays and sounds absolutly great. I didn,t like the
pickup though; I had a P92 custom wound by Fralin. The new pickup,
along with strings starting at thirteens gives me the perfect jazz
tone, for my ear. For those who know me, know that I have have owned
some of the best guitars around and this has most of them beat
hands-down.

Maj6th

[Gerry]

On 2014-02-12 07:00:45 +0000, Mr. Maj6th said:

> Maj6th

Hey--send me your email address, I lost it...

[van]

Like I said, you basically got a D'Aquisto with a screwy pickup placement.;-)

[Tim McNamara]

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 23:00:45 -0800, Mr Maj6th <maj...@roadrunner.com>
wrote:

>
> I've bought one about ten years and it immediatelly became my main
> guitar. It plays and sounds absolutly great. I didn,t like the
> pickup though; I had a P92 custom wound by Fralin. The new pickup,
> along with strings starting at thirteens gives me the perfect jazz
> tone, for my ear. For those who know me, know that I have have owned
> some of the best guitars around and this has most of them beat
> hands-down.

Any chance of us punters getting to hear it via a video or something?

[jaz]

it's closer to an FG100 than a D'Aquisto.

[cjenki...@gmail.com]

That's right, it is the FG100 body which was the same as the PM20. The fender D'aquisto is a lot brighter and move alive acoustically than any of the ibanezs. Not good or bad just different.