When you first started learning jazz...
kagejs
typical "play this scale over this chord" kind of thing?
I've been playing jazz for 1 1/2 years now and I'm feeling like I'm
stuck. My comping is getting better, but my soloing isn't where I want
it to be. I fully realize that things take time, and I'm really not
trying to rush it, but I need something to give me a little spark. I'm
wondering what you guys did when you first started out.
Josh
Dave K
It doesn't matter what way you approach it or what way anybody here
did. Whether you use chord/scale or transcribe or both. You just have
to keep going and play lots and lots of tunes.
The one sure way to advance quickly though, is to play tunes with other
people. Even if (and especially if) they are better than you.
Dan Adler
they provide an organized, systematic and thorough way to learn the
language of contemporary jazz.
I also really like Jim Snidero's Jazz Conception For Guitar, and of
course the Joe Pass books are the bible.
pmfan57
Especially "the Joe Pass Guitar Style" and "On Guitar".
Other really good books are "How to play bebop, Vol. 1" by David Baker,
Peter Sprague's Bird solos/CD, "Fusion," by Joe Diorio, Galbraith's
comping, "Linear Expressions" by Pat Martino, and any transcriptions of
Pat Martino.
kagejs
specifically and personally do when you were first learning. Does that
make sense?
Josh
get...@gmail.com
with other people. And just finding them is difficult. I have found
(through craigslist) several different people to jam with...and through
those contacts have found others. Some situations I've been more
experienced and some less but I am continually networking in order to
play more jazz music. I've found jamming with private groups of people
rather than open jams to be more valuable. The open jams often limit
you to 1 or 2 songs, often you don't get to call the tune and (through
personal experience) it can be very humiliating.
Also learning tunes. Real books 1 and 2 are a must. I need to get 3 as
well but it's not called as often. But a couple real good music books
for standards has been great for me. I run through them daily. Hal
Leonard Jazz Standards Fake Book and WB Just Standards Real Book. All
the changes are correct in those books and they include the words as
well as the Verse before the Chorus.
Lastly of course and most importantly is to have a teacher. A good
teacher is not only a guide to your progress but can also be an
inspiration,
Ken Willinger
http://homepage.mac.com/getken/guitar/
Bill Ribas
couple of tunes. i was young, and followed the rock side for a long time. On
returning to study jazz, i listened to early jazz, and began in a
rudimentary way - playing chord tones over chords. Currently, I guess i
sound a bit like charlie christian, but that's subject to change. I have
found Andrew Green's books a breath of fresh air - the technique book really
loosens up the fingering and touch, and the structures book has helped me
see other chord arpeggios over chords to hear new stuff. I am constantly
getting stuck, as you say you do, but i am old enough to realize that change
doesn't happen in a finger snap, and am delighted, for example to hear a
Dmin7 run over an F work wonders.
So, long story short, when i started learning jazz, i didn't do a good job
of it. that's probably why it fell to the wayside, and rock was more fun.
more chicks too, but that's another story.
"kagejs" <w.sa...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1140535056.6...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Joey Goldstein
(I.e. Be able to play the head, comp, and solo without the chart. Being
able to solo without accompaniment, without getting lost, and with a
clear outline of the harmony, is important too. The surest way to
develop the skills to do the latter is to learn to play melodies that
are comprised of chord tones only. Another more intuitive way is to play
solos based off of the melody. Play the tunes in all 12 keys, by ear.)
Lift tunes and solos from good or great recordings. Try to sing the
lines first, then figure them out on the guitar.
When you learn a line on guitar figure it out with as many fingerings as
you can. This is part technique and part ear training. Develop a
technique that allows you to play any scale, arpeggio, or single note
line, anywhere your hand happens to be on the fretboard (assuming that
that fretboard position encompasses the range of the line).
Alternatively, learn to play every line starting on any finger on every
string that is practical.
When you practice single note lines, or scales, or arps, sing what
you're playing. When you're chording sing your top note or the root.
After you've practiced playing a line or scale or arp on guitar, sing it
without playing it.
When you solo over a tune sing what you're playing.
Try scat singing a solo over the changes of a tune you're working on and
figure out how to play what you sang. You can use an audio recorder to
help. If you're not prolific enough to scat a whole chorus or even 8
bars then just do it 1 bar at a time and patch the bars together. Read
thru the excerpt from Chapter 20 of my book, "Playing What you Hear".
<http://members.tripod.com/joey_goldstein/JGM/jgm.htm>
Read Hal Crook's book "How To Improvise".
Read Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book".
Read Nettles and Graff's "The Chord-Scale Theory And Jazz Harmony".
Read Mick Goodrick's "The Advancing Guitarist".
Study the Berklee guitar methods via William Leavitt's books.
Get a good teacher.
I also got a lot out of Gordon Delamont's "Modern Harmonic Technique"
Vols. 1 & 2.
--
Joey Goldstein
http://www.joeygoldstein.com
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
stevek
mode you play over what chord. Learning the theory was useful, but I
didn't produce much music out of that approach.
Getting a teacher is the best first step.
The other thing that heped me progress was to work on a single tune for
a 2 weeks or so at a time, really breaking it down into smaller chunks
for practice. I used a technique I read in a Gene Bertoncini book,
"Approaching the Guitar," where you play through a tune, targeting a
chord tone on every chord in the tune (or the small chunk of the tune
you're working on.) You record yourself playing the chords a few times
through, so you have something to practice playing lead over. It's
always a good idea to record this comping with a metronome, too. From
there, play the the tune through, hitting just the root note of each
chord in the song one time through, then next time play the 3rd of each
chord in the song, then target the 5th, or 7th, etc. This helped my
time, theory, knowledge of the fretboad & improved my ear. This all
improved my lead playing.
The Jimmy Bruno CDs/DVDs were very helpful, too. You could spend years
working on those, too.
SK
Joey Goldstein
--
RickH
Here is what worked for me, please dont think I'm condescending,
because I'm no pro.
Memorize a lot of canned 4 to 8 bar "riffs" or melodic phrases then
start working them into your solos over play-alongs. Eventually you
will find these canned phrases "morphing" into your own thing and some
day they wont sound canned. It's kinda like spraying ether or naptha
into a cold carburator to get the car started, it gets you going; and
gives seeds for ideas later. You can lift the phrases from
transcriptions, riff books, or even BIAB comes shipped with 101 jazz
riffs, etc. I found that this helped me more than the "what scale with
what chord" approach.
Also working on playing by ear, things like getting chord tones to land
on strong beats, working the solo from outside to inside with the
harmonic cadences so that the listener gets some tonal relief
occasionally, etc. A good exercise is to keep the changes in front of
me, put on the play-along, then just try to arpeggiate the changes in
fragments as the chords change. Even if I'm only hitting a few of the
chord tones and missing the alterations, its still good practice in
navigating lines over changes in swing eights.
Play melodies, memorize melodies, then make a simple improv by adding
passing tones/scales between the wide intervals, then try to morph the
melody further by subbing notes. Autumn Leaves is a good tune for this
kind of "theme and variations" approach to improv. it's an easy tune to
re-melodicize after you've memorized the head. It also gets you
thinking horizontally instead of vertically, as though you are weaving
a single melodic thread through a fabric of harmony.
Buy a lot of play-along books Hal Leonard or Aebersold, eventually I
wind up getting back to tunes I blew off years ago as too hard, and the
books never go stale. Enter the chords into BIAB and improvise changes
you know well in different rhythmn styles too.
ott...@hotmail.com
untill I could almost sing/whistle along with their solos, essentially
learded them or Bits of them that I liked, by Osmosis. I would play the
same album for days or weeks
Howard's were really helpful because all the tunes were Standards, that
I knew or could get sheet music for.
There weren't any Fake books to screw me up at that time.
Eventually if I played around with Wine & Roses, or many of the Bossas
of that time, I would hear Howard's or Kenny's phrases and try to
replicate them, I didn't transcribe them tho.
But I could figure what he was playing(for the most part) and where to
apply it.
For chord Voicing and Voice leading I listened to Breau and Ed
Bickert.
I didn't have a Lot of recordings, so I heard the same ones over and
over.
Bottom line is that you have to hear something before you play it.
Bg
Derek
I have been at it 3-4 years now, and I went immediately to a jazz
teacher. I spent almost 2 years absorbing various 7th chords and their
inversions. While learning these, we were always in the Real Book
playing tunes. The guy I study with, his single line approach is
almost exclusively arpeggios, so as I learn new chord stuff, it applies
to the single line stuff also.
Joe Finn
"kagejs" <w.sa...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1140532852.0...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> What did you guys work on? Did you transcribe solos? Did you learn the
> typical "play this scale over this chord" kind of thing?
In my case the learning curve began earlier. Since my Dad was an amateur
pianist and composer I heard music every day from infancy. I also has access
to a piano so I spent a lot of time plunking away as a kid. He gave me piano
lessons too.
Later on I did transcriptions and the chord scale stuff.
>
> I've been playing jazz for 1 1/2 years now and I'm feeling like I'm
> stuck. My comping is getting better, but my soloing isn't where I want
> it to be. I fully realize that things take time, and I'm really not
> trying to rush it, but I need something to give me a little spark. I'm
> wondering what you guys did when you first started out.
>
> Josh
I think first and second year students ought to be transcribing and learning
chord scale relationships. You'll also need to get in some regular ensemble
time, ear training, theory, improvisation, lots of listening and repertoire
too. A weekly private lesson is a must.
If you were a full time student this is what you would be doing.
......joe
>
--
Visit me on the web www.JoeFinn.net
*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***
paul
same way :). the best thing I did when I started playing was met other
musicians my age, and started having jam sessions with them and playing
gigs in restaurants and coffee shops. the second best thing I did was
take lessons every week with a really good jazz musician, who got me
started singing charlie christian and bird solos. singing solos was a
breakthrough for me.
--paul
kagejs
do take weekly guitar lessons from a great teacher. He's fantastic, but
I've been finding myself trying to do extra credit work on my own and
not ONLY working on my lesson material. He and I have just started
working on learning a bunch of tunes, so I'm glad I'm in the right
direction there. I know my comping has improved in this regard.
Finding musicians to jam with is more of a problem. I have two that I
started to jam with separately, so hopefully I can continue to jam with
them.
Please keep the comments coming in terms of what you guys worked on
when you started. It's giving me a lot of good ideas.
Josh
Pt
I started playing Cast your fate to the wind, Take 5 and Exodus in
jazz.
These were pop songs at that time.
I could always improvise to some degree.
I knew what I wanted to play and played it.
I kept ir simple because that was the only way I could think and play
at that time.
Play what you think.
Pt
Rick Ross
> Well, the good news is that I'm doing exactly what many of you say. I
thankfully, a memorial website has been constructed dedicated to the memory
of my old teacher/mentor..check it out..it is loaded with excellent
tune-based material for a student at your level..all free..
www.joemonk.com
dunlop212
1. A book on Charlie Christian's guitar style. It was a nice bridge
from rock playing; gave specific examples of playing chord tone
oriented licks over chords. There's a nice site that does the same
thing at http://www3.nbnet.nb.ca/hansen/Charlie/tutorial/cctut1.htm.
2. There was a 1998 article in Acoustic Guitar magazine, of all places,
that covered the basics of Freddy Green's comping style. Here is a site
that takes a similar approach:
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/3573/swing1.html (note that this
is *not* an attempt to cop the one or two string comping style others
have attributed to Green; that is a whole separate topic).
3. After this, I was able to make sense of the first Mickey Baker book,
which I had for years, but never really *got*.
For me, building from Charlie and Freddie made tons more sense than
trying to work with scales or modes. Right now, I am practicing scales
like crazy, not to learn "modes" in the normal sense, although I am
working on that, too, but to try to learn (visualize) the fretboard
better (Jimmy Bruno's Essential Jazz Fingerings book is my practice
guide). But I think chords have to come first.
Joe Montgomery
> I guess I'm looking more for personal experiences. What did YOU guys
> specifically and personally do when you were first learning.
I took 3 semesters of jazz improv (non specific to guitar) at the local
Community College.
I bought a Real Book 5th ed. naively believing that it contained ALL
the jazz songs. Then I went to the local library, which had a great
vinyl collection at the time, and tried to hear every tune in the
book...(on the bottom of the chart it would say "as played by Sonny
Rollins on such and such recording). I made it to H.
Then I took every gig I could, paid, not paid, jam session, coffee
house, bad singers, etc. and tried to mostly work on my time. S l o w
l y, I started to get better and better gigs with better players.
Then I was asked to play rhythm guitar in a big band that had over 400
tunes in it's book. We played every Wednesday for 2 years and I never
played a single note or a solo. This is where most of my light bulbs
lit up...listening to everyone else play thru changes, hearing
different approaches of the different solo instruments with different
ranges and integrating with a very good rhythm section with a world
class pianist - reading great charts didn't hurt either...I learned how
well developed and sophisticated the I vi ii V could become.
Then I got into 5-6 steady working bands, all different, and all making
different demands on the guitar, solo playing right up to 17 piece band
and everything in between.
I should also say that when I first took the improv classes (1994) I
already knew the fingerboard, had been playing a while, could kinda
read "bad rock" chord charts and had lifted lots of solos off
recordings using a record player with a 16 speed to cut the tune's
speed in half from 33.
As for transcriptions, there are some I recommend for guitar.
Eddie Lang's April Kisses Solo Guitar
Charlie Christian's Solo Flight
Wes solo AND WYNTON KELLY's solo AND JOHNNY GRIFFITH'S SOLO on Blue and
Boogie from Full House
Benson's Billie's Bounce
Joe Pass Rosetta, Catch Me and Joy Spring
then everyone YOU like.
Good Luck!
JM
Max Leggett
I was lucky - I started playing with 5 other guys and we were all
lame. But 3 months later we were nowhere near as lame, and 3 months
after that we got a paying gig. So find some people to play with,
that's what gets you up to scratch. And don't have mindless jamwanks -
have a rehearsal to get down arrangements on specific songs. Build up
a repertoire. You can't learn jazz sitting at home. And don't worry
about impressing people with your solos - just get in the groove and
support the other band members. Master the craft, the artistry will
follow.
--------------------------------
Without music, life is a mistake.
Freidrich "Hep Daddy" Nietzsche
---------------------------------
Eddie S. Lastra
hours and hours trying to imitate songs and riffs of my favorite guitarists
like Wes Montgomery, Kenny Burrell, Grant Green, George Benson, Gabor Szabo,
etc. This was all fun in that all I wanted to do was sound something like
them and that was good enough for me. I didn't care too much about whether
I could play ripping solos and complex chord progressions (still can't to
this day :-)). I played in a lot of Soul and R&B bands every weekend at
dances, parties, military clubs, night clubs, etc. Didn't play much jazz
with them, but got in a lot of stage playing time. At some point I
realized this jazz stuff was more complex than my ear could pick up. So I
took up some music theory classes and jazz guitar lessons with a good
teacher. This was very important to helping me understand the musical
structures. But, I think the years spent picking up things by ear were most
helpful to my overall development and feel of the instrument. Don't know
whether I'd recommend my approach. It's just the way things fell together
for me in those times.
"kagejs" <w.sa...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1140532852.0...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
grady...@mail.house.gov
enough, we'll all return. And while I haven't been playing jazz as
long as some of the other posters here's what has helped me:
1. Ted Greene's books. Really taught me how to make "music" from
major scales and chord tones.
2. Band in a Box. Worth every cent. BIAB takes care of scrambling to
find other musicians to play with (although it's no substitute for
playing with real people). Want to jam over Ornithology for 30 minutes
at 120 bpm so you can work out all the kinks? If you answered yes buy
BIAB. Right now.
3. Seeing a great teacher who is way, way, way better than me.
4. Wolf Marshall's books. His studies of Pat Martino and the great
Grant Green have been invaluable.
5. Reading what you can on how the greats approach soloing. I read
somewhere how Martino approaches his solos from a minor perspective.
That really opened things up for me and has resulted in some pretty hip
stuff.
6. Speaking of hip, find out what is hip. When crafting lines over
progressions, target the third, sixth, or ninth. That's really what
gives jazz its flavor. Hell I avoid the root as much as possible.
7. Find a song and tear into it. For me, its Satin Doll. I've
learned the head backward and forward and I can comp for days on it and
never get lost. Better still, I've really delved into the progressions
and have wrote line after line for it. It's a great song to work with
as it's loaded with ii-V-Is and is a standard among standards. You
should be able to work a song so well that you can jam unaccompanied
and another musician should be able to hear the chords over it.
8. Teach someone else how to play. Find other musicians who are open
to learning and you'll be amazed that you'll be the one who learns the
most. My neighbor's not a big jazz guy but I've showed him some stuff
and in the process of explaining things I've gained new insights on how
it all works.
9. Absorb "Kind of Blue" by Miles Davis and "Midnight Blue" by Kenny
Burrell. Seeing transcriptions of Miles "All Blues" solo and Burrell's
"Chitlins Con Carne" solo blew me away. The straight-forward
minimalism of both were real eye opening. Great music's not about a
trillion notes per second. It's about finding the groove and staying
there.
10. Keep coming back to this site. I've definitely picked up a lot of
things just be checking out the various posts.
11. When working stuff out, write down your good ideas. Don't assume
you'll be able to remember that sweet Bbm7 line you cranked out at 2
a.m.
Most important keep at it. Whenever I get in a rut, I remind myself
that EVERY musician has been there. Joe Pass wasn't born playing the
way he did. He had his struggles. He got through them. So will you.
Keith Freeman
> typical "play this scale over this chord" kind of thing?
before the chord changed. It took me a long time to figure out I needed to
use the *chord* notes. Do that (arpeggios, triads from the arpeggios) and
you're in with a fighting chance! Check out my articles on Arpeggios and
Scales.
-Keith
Portable Changes, tips etc. at http://home.wanadoo.nl/keith.freeman/
e-mail only to keith DOT freeman AT wanadoo DOT nl
Max Leggett
<esla...@comcast.net> wrote:
>this day :-)). I played in a lot of Soul and R&B bands every weekend at
>dances, parties, military clubs, night clubs, etc. Didn't play much jazz
>with them, but got in a lot of stage playing time.
I think that's the important part - stage time. That's how you get
your rhythmic chops together and you can build on that. I get the
sense that too many people want to be Artists wth a capital eh right
from the word go, and it doesn't work that way. Dizzy used to play
with Cab Calloway, the Kenny G of his day; Trane used to play in an
R&B band called Daisy Mae and Her Hep Kats [you can look it up]; Bird
played dime a dance halls. There's a whole world of basic craft to be
mastered, and you master that with stage time of any kind; you don't
need to be a Jazz Purist, you just have to gig. Everyone - including
me - wants to take 30 choruses on Giant Steps and just slay the
audience, and the world is full of hacks playing 30 bad choruses on
Giant Steps and driving the audience away. There's no art without
craft.
At some point I
>realized this jazz stuff was more complex than my ear could pick up. So I
>took up some music theory classes and jazz guitar lessons with a good
>teacher. This was very important to helping me understand the musical
>structures. But, I think the years spent picking up things by ear were most
>helpful to my overall development and feel of the instrument. Don't know
>whether I'd recommend my approach. It's just the way things fell together
>for me in those times.
>
>
>
>"kagejs" <w.sa...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:1140532852.0...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> What did you guys work on? Did you transcribe solos? Did you learn the
>> typical "play this scale over this chord" kind of thing?
>>
>> I've been playing jazz for 1 1/2 years now and I'm feeling like I'm
>> stuck. My comping is getting better, but my soloing isn't where I want
>> it to be. I fully realize that things take time, and I'm really not
>> trying to rush it, but I need something to give me a little spark. I'm
>> wondering what you guys did when you first started out.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>
>
--------------------------------
misterwilliamc
Listened, played. Great ear. Mid teens waterShed.
Jazz geetar (Grant, Wes, Garland), country (Chet, Wills/Shamblin/Leon),
blues (T-Bone, Hooker, Rush), Billys (Gallup, Moore, Burton), New
Orleans rocknroll (Allen, Hardesty), swing (Bradley, Goodman, James),
citySlick R&Bs (pre-tina Ike, a myriad of artists), world (Agustin Lara,
koto, steel drum), boogiewoogiepiano (ammons, slack, a bunch).
Some that were focused on. There were lots (more) and too numerous to
mention.
Simultaneously in the pot.
Sponge.
By end of teens, off to Lighthouse.
Different accents on different things in subsequent years at different
times, including jass.
Different strokes, different folks.
Some choose a path. For some, a path chooses them.
Have fun.
Paul
Listen to as many players as possible, carefully, try to internalize the
overall similarities across the spectrum as well as put into precise
thoughts the differences between approaches. A good place to start is to
focus intensely on comping by guitar and piano players when you listen. Then
Focus on what the bass player is doing.
Paul K.
Ted Vieira
1140532852.0...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "kagejs"
<w.sa...@comcast.net> wrote:
> What did you guys work on? Did you transcribe solos? Did you learn the
> typical "play this scale over this chord" kind of thing?
>
> I've been playing jazz for 1 1/2 years now and I'm feeling like I'm
> stuck. My comping is getting better, but my soloing isn't where I want
> it to be. I fully realize that things take time, and I'm really not
> trying to rush it, but I need something to give me a little spark. I'm
> wondering what you guys did when you first started out.
>
> Josh
>
When I first started out I just started learning tunes along with the "play
this scale over this chord" type of thing.
One thing you can do to help your soloing/phrasing is to learn as many heads
to standards as you can. That will really give you a great handle on
phrasing, and can help train your fingers and your ears.
Ted Vieira
--
http://www.TedVieira.com
CDs, NEW: eBooks, Free Online Lessons
Free Online Articles, Performance Schedule & more...
http://www.JazzInstruction.com
A fresh new resource to lessons and
instructional materials on the web
to help your development as a jazz artist.
pmfan57
We all remember what the first message from an alien civilization was:
"Send more Pat Martino".
Ted Vieira
Goldstein" <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> Practice/study, hang out, listen listen listen listen.
>
I agree, key point: Listen to as much as you can. Really immerse yourself in
this stuff. It will sink in and provide a lot of inspiration and ideas.
Ted
Adam Gottschalk
"kagejs" <w.sa...@comcast.net> wrote:
> What did you guys work on? Did you transcribe solos? Did you learn the
> typical "play this scale over this chord" kind of thing?
>
> I've been playing jazz for 1 1/2 years now and I'm feeling like I'm
> stuck. My comping is getting better, but my soloing isn't where I want
> it to be. I fully realize that things take time, and I'm really not
> trying to rush it, but I need something to give me a little spark. I'm
> wondering what you guys did when you first started out.
>
> Josh
>
The first time I ever studied jazz was around 1980 in a jazz-improv
class at a New-England boarding school. I was a good-for-nothing stoner
back then (well, I guess some things never change). I was in awe of my
teacher, a guy name Bob Sinicrope, who could play anything on any
intrument, keys, bass, guitar, drums, whatever, to him it was all just
music. I remember he required everyone to get Aebersold's Gettin' It
Together. I've had that volume ever since...and never once used it!
I didn't really get into jazz until the first time I had a chance to
play in a non-academic workshop band (with Ev Stern in Seattle). Showing
up every week to "just jam with a bunch of guys" really changed my
perspectives: "Ah, jazz is a thing that's meant to be face to face." I
would say that a person is well-served by getting themselves into
playing situations as early in their learning as possible. I think
there's no sense in book learning if it's not tied, from the get-go, to
applications of that learning.
And never underestimate the power of _listening_. You learn much more
than you think at first from listening to the jazz (or whatever it is)
that turns you on. Listen to it over and over and over. Suddenly you'll
be like the stoner guy on Taxi, standing there thinking to yourself,
"Gee, I musta had some lessons."
dlfo...@hotmail.com
I have to agree with what Joey and Keith have said - learn to solo
using chord tones.
I played rock, blues and fusion for about 15 years before I started
learning jazz. I found it hard to make good melodies using scales at
first. I eventually reset and decided to work on slower, simple tunes
like Autumn Leaves and Satin Doll and worked on playing solos based on
chord tones. Once I adopted this approach I started to see improvement
and enjoyed playing more.
Dave
dlfo...@hotmail.com
dlfo...@hotmail.com
ott...@hotmail.com
jazz. These were pop songs at that time. "
AAhh yes, Exodus, I remember it well a . Used to play that arrangement
with a quartet a few years ago.
That was Joe Diorio on that recoding, I that LP on Vinyl somewhere.
Bg
ott...@hotmail.com
jazz. These were pop songs at that time. "
Ah yes, Exodus! Used to play that arrangement with a quartet a few
years ago.
That was Joe Diorio on guitar on that Recording which I have on Vinyl
never to be found again.
Bg
pmfan57
Grant Green's version of "Exodus" is great.
markr
kagejs wrote:
> What did you guys work on? Did you transcribe solos? Did you learn the
> typical "play this scale over this chord" kind of thing?
>
> I've been playing jazz for 1 1/2 years now and I'm feeling like I'm
> stuck. My comping is getting better, but my soloing isn't where I want
> it to be. I fully realize that things take time, and I'm really not
> trying to rush it, but I need something to give me a little spark. I'm
> wondering what you guys did when you first started out.
>
> Josh
Spend a lot of time mastering the ii V I progression in all keys major
and minor but do this in context while learning tunes, don't just play
patterns. Most standard tunes use ii Vs so once you can play a tune in
one key and do simple lines on the ii Vs, transpose it to another key
and repeat. You don't have to play really complicated lines on the ii
Vs but you have to be able to deal with this progression in a
fundamental way. Then work on learning other common progressions that
are used over and over again in the standard repertoire like I vi ii V
I. Practice improvising on these progressions, learn tunes that are
based on them and listen to how the greats play on them. There' s a
link on the Ralph Patt site that explains the most common tonal centers
and where they are used in the standard repertoire.
Mark R
geekg...@aol.com
thing for a few years when I was in college. I found a nice set of
ideas for modal tunes and fusion tunes that way, but I couldn't play
over anything that had real changes until I learned to address the
chords melodically. I had to focus on arpeggio and guide tones.
Really trying to hear the chord changes in my lines. Studying
arpeggios really helped me over that barrier. When I'm studying a
tune, I still created arpeggio lines over the changes as part of my
routine. In recent years I'm trying to use chord subs and
reharmonization in my arpeggios, but they always seem to guide my ear
to create melodic ideas of the changes. They're not too difficult once
you get a few shapes under your fingers and begin playing them in all
keys.
--Eric Elias
www.ericelias.net
www.funkyfolkmusic.com
Adam Bravo
news:43FB2F93...@nowhere.net...
> Practice/study, hang out, listen listen listen listen.
I think "hang out" is a very good one that's neglected at times. It's really
helpful to hear more experienced musicians talk about music, and if you're
visual like me, seeing guys play can also help a ton.
jdah...@uiuc.edu
and hum, think, whistle improvised solos that sounded like they would
fit in with recordied solos I listened to. I am still trying to learn
to get that out through a musical instrument. As a lifetime hobbyist
(there have been times when I was a full time musician) at music my
goal has been to learn how to get out what I'm hearing in my thoughts.
It's always a treat when this
actually happens!
kagejs
opinions and insight. After reading everything written I think I'm on
the right track. I just need more dirt time to get experience. If
anything I think I'm lacking in the transcribing department, which I
can certainly work on. I'm playing through about 5 tunes a week (heads
and chord progs), so hopefully that, in addition to everything else I'm
practicing, will get me there eventually.
Josh
ott...@hotmail.com
What Grant Green album is Exodus on???
Bg
icarusi
For me it's usually finding a recording guitarist who is doing things
similar to what I'm already doing, but moving it on a notch, so it's not
totally out of reach but a stretch I felt I could make to some degree. Foe
me it was Larry Carlton and Robben Ford doing the jazzed-up bluesy stuff
which worked for me, and still does. I 'transcribe' in the old method,
listen then play, section by section, trying different fingerings etc. A lot
of it for me is in the expression and feel, so notes or tab on paper
wouldn't quite do it.
Icarusi
--
remove the 00 to reply
pmfan57
Derek
Kevin Van Sant
in message <1140532852.0...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> :
>What did you guys work on? Did you transcribe solos? Did you learn the
>typical "play this scale over this chord" kind of thing?
>
>I've been playing jazz for 1 1/2 years now and I'm feeling like I'm
>stuck. My comping is getting better, but my soloing isn't where I want
>it to be. I fully realize that things take time, and I'm really not
>trying to rush it, but I need something to give me a little spark. I'm
>wondering what you guys did when you first started out.
Two things more than anything else. I learned and memorized tons of
tunes, and I played along with records for hours every day. This is
exactly what I try to get all my students to get in the habit of doing
independent of any specific stuff we're talking about.
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
jazz guitar
http://www.kevinvansant.com
to buy my CDs, hear sound clips, see videos, and get more info.
Visit my new Instant Download Mp3 Store at:
http://www.onestopjazz.com/mp3-store.html
Alternate site for gig tape soundclips
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/kevinvansant_music.htm
kagejs
Learn the solos? Comp changes? Melody? All of it?
Josh
Kevin Van Sant
in message <1140803997.5...@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> :
>Kevin, when you say you played along with records, what did you do?
>Learn the solos? Comp changes? Melody? All of it?
I think jazz has to be learned like a language, the best way to learn
any language is immersion. Almost everyone will tell you to listen,
listen, listen. Playing along with records combines listening with
emulating and practicing. So generally I'm not talking about
learning solos or heads as much as just improvising along with the
great players on the record. We've discussed this here before, but
what I'm talking about doing is to try to absorb the nuance of the
language; the phrasing, the contours, the rhythmic devices, the
spacing, etc.. Some of the time it's simply listening and and
tryiing to copy loosely on the fly, but maybe here and there a
particular lick or device will catch your ear and you try to work it
out. The main point is that you are immersed in the real thing and
practicing improvising (ie making music).
Whatever time you spend on other things, learning tunes, working out
fingerings to heads, practicing scales (shudder), try to supplement
that by playing along with at least one record a day and I'm pretty
sure you'll feel a difference pretty quickly.
kagejs
Josh
Max S.
on while you drive or clean the house - sit down in a chair in front of
the stereo or put on headphones, get a nice glass of wine or beer,
close your eyes, be still and LISTEN and absorb the sound.
Play with some other people, or if it's too hard to get people
together, use a play along record - don't spend too much time just
playing the guitar out of context. HEAR what that
melodic-minor-built-on-the-b9 substitution SOUNDS like against an
altered dominant voicing in the piano, in the context of a progression
and a tempo and a groove. As soon as you learn a scale, a lick, a
voicing - start playing and HEARING it in context - I think Aebersold
records are the best, because they are people and they GROOVE, but Band
in a Box is more flexible with tempos, keys and chord subs, if you like
it.
Have fun!
Max S.