Flying with guitar? Avoid United Airlines and Clam Cases (not the youtube song)
Tim Berens
This is offered as an update for guitarists. I have posted several
times about flying with guitars in the past. My most recent post
recommended that guitarists use the Clam Case from CaseXtreme.
(http://casextreme.com). I must rescind this recommendation based on
my recent experience. And I must report the treatment I received from
United Airlines. United is obviously unconcerned about attracting
business from traveling musicians.
I have been travelling with CaseXtreme clam cases for several years,
and have had no problems with them until recently....but this was a
giant problem -- big enough to get me to stop using Clam Cases for
flying.
I flew to Beijing, China on July 7, 2009, with an archtop guitar. We
played a series of rehearsal and concerts in Beijing, then flew home
on July 12. At the airport, the attendant at the United Airlines
check-in counter climbed out from behind the counter, measured my
guitar case, and then demanded an additional fee of $200.00 because my
guitar case was "oversized luggage".
The interpreter who was traveling with us jumped in and took over at
this point. 40 minutes of negotiations between the interpreter and
various United Airlines officials followed. It made no difference to
them that I was not charged the fee on the way to China. They
insisted that the United Airlines officials in the US who did not
charge me made a mistake, and that I should have been charged $200.00
extra for the flight to China.
The gate agent suggested 2 alternatives. (I'm not making these up.)
1. Throw the Clam Case away and check the guitar in its regular
carrying case. (The clam case is a case around your regular case). I
told her this was unacceptably risky. So she suggested . . .
2. Throw the Clam Case away, check the guitar case empty, and carry
(CARRY!) without any case at all, my archtop for the 22 hours of
upcoming flights home. She was kind enough to offer to find me some
plastic to wrap it in.
Needless to say, neither of these options were going to happen. The
gate agents couldn't care less that I was a professional musician. To
them, I was one more rule-breaker who needed to be charged $200.00
About 35 minutes into the stand-off, our interpreter realized that one
of our party was traveling first-class. First-class (a $13,000
ticket) allows for larger baggage, so we checked my guitar under his
ticket.
United Airlines' website says that bags that are more than 62 linear
inches (height + width + length) are "excess baggage" and will be
charged. CaseXtreme's Clam Cases are larger than this. Mine is 78
linear inches as the airline measures it.
This means that flying with a CaseXtreme case could cost you an
additional $175.00 fee on Delta airlines, or a $200.00 fee on United.
That is each way -- a $350.00 round-trip fee to travel with a
CaseXtreme Clam Case.
For this reason, I regret to inform guitarists that CaseXtreme cases
are no longer a viable way to transport guitars on planes. I have no
good suggestions at this point, other than purchasing a $1,500.00
flight case from Accord or one of the other companies who make them.
I have forwarded this email to both CaseXtreme and United Airlines for
their comment.
Tim Berens
http://timberens.com
Gerry
> I have been travelling with CaseXtreme clam cases for several years,
> and have had no problems with them until recently....but this was a
> giant problem -- big enough to get me to stop using Clam Cases for
> flying.
Every day it's something. Thanks for the update. I need to shlep a
guitar cross-country in August and am thinking I should just Fedex the
thing a week in advance. Creepy though...
--
Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.
Kevin Van Sant
<t...@timberens.com> wrote in message
<13f8b3f3-95dc-493d...@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> :
Hi Tim, thanks for sharing that report. I feared that might be the
case when I saw the new restrictions on baggage dimensions recently.
Air travel just gets worse and worse. Maybe a letter to your union
would be worthwhile too. Didn't a musicians union strike a deal with
Delta a while back about carrying on instruments?
I remember a few years ago the airlines had a list of instruments and
other items that were considered oversized. They weren't measured at
check in, it was just if the item was on the list. So if at check in
you told the agent at the counter that the bass was a cello and he/she
didn't know any better you could get it on without the added fee :) I
traveled with bass players a couple of times who did this.
________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
Check out my brand new CD "Play the Music of Horace Silver"
http://www.kevinvansant.com
TD
The airlines are all broke, so this is one of the things happening.
They will begin charging for anything they can soon. The sidewalk,
peanuts, looking at tits; you name it. In addition, it is not unusal
to get a cranky, nasty, bitch stewardess (or steward).
-TD
mylesgtr
> Delta a while back about carrying on instruments?
yes...and i still had to check my 175 in a gig bag after that
agreement (which was even printed on their website and i had a copy of
it). they can do whatever they want and you're at their mercy. in my
(limited) experience, delta is the worst in all regards...especially
if you have a guitar.
myles
mylesgtr
aside from the awkwardness of it. guess it's trash now unless
something changes.
myles
thomas
Northwest is the worst airline I've ever flown. Every time I fly they
screw something up royally. Next week I'm going to Michigan on
Northwest, because there was no other choice. Let's see what they foul
up this time.
Joe Montgomery
I know this is after the fact but could you have arranged to rent, say
an Eastman guitar in Beijing? I'm not advocating this, but given the
Airline issues these days, perhaps we guitarists now have to face what
pianists, drummers, etc. have had to deal with for decades...not
knowing the condition of the instrument they will be performing on.
When I did my heavy touring years ago, management let me buy Anvil
flight cases for 2 guitars (an L-5 and a 335) and one for my Twin
Reverb. Talk about heavy and bulky! But i checked them all as luggage,
MAYBE $25 more for all of them...tells you what a dinosaur I am!
AREN'T THERE ANY GUITAR FRIENDLY AIRLINES INTERNATIONALLY???
JM
Kevin Van Sant
wrote in message
<393e803c-fab4-4cdd...@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> :
Northwest and Delta have merged now you know. Actually I just flew to
Michigan on Northwest last week. They mis-tagged my wife's checked
bag and it was sent to another part of the state. Best of luck!
Gerry
> The airlines are all broke, so this is one of the things happening.
> They will begin charging for anything they can soon. The sidewalk,
> peanuts, looking at tits; you name it. In addition, it is not unusal
> to get a cranky, nasty, bitch stewardess (or steward).
If I could pay $35 to ensure my guitar was hand carried (last in/first
out) to storage and back, in a hard-shell case, I'd be delighted.
Joe Finn
Thanks for your remarks, Tim. I'm so sorry you had to endure such a dreadful
ordeal.
Welcome home!!
I hope to see further comments about your trip here at some point.
best, .....................joe
--
Visit me on the web www.JoeFinn.net
>
Peter
take a Yamaha nylon string travel guitar for the first time. I, too,
was faced with the 62 linear inches dilemma, so I modified a UHaul
cardboard box and put the gig bag case in the box and then lined the
box with clothes as extra padding. I then reinforced the outside with
a gazillion windings of UHaul's awesome paper tape.
On the way down to Brazil, the box was abused beyond belief. The
corners and sides of the box were so dented and damaged, had it not
been for the tape, it would have been ripped wide open. The guitar
made it intact. Those travel guitars are surprisingly durable
instruments. I expected at least a cracked neck on that trip.
Once in Brazil, I then reinforced the box again with paper tape I
brought down with me. On the way back to the states, the box, even
though it was within 62 linear inches, was checked in as over sized
baggage, with no extra charge. The return resulted in no damage to the
box whatsoever. The oversized luggage and boxes come through and are
placed separately from all the other bags.
After this experience, I decided that I would only travel with guitars
that I would not mind if they were broken or stolen. If I made a
living making music, and traveled with expensive, cherished equipment,
I would gladly (well, not gladly) pay the outrageous fees rather than
face the
consequences and expense of losing a guitar that I loved. Having said
this, however, I would be pretty pissed at having to pay such an
exorbitant fee. I discussed these same charges at the check in counter
and it truly is ludicrous.
I am about to go on a rant about airline policies and practices, but
right now I am too tired.
Sorry you had to go through this....especially overseas in another
language.
Joe Finn
"Peter" <peterf...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:34fe5064-ca99-469a...@i6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
>I just came back from Brazil yesterday. I flew Delta and decided to
> take a Yamaha nylon string travel guitar for the first time. I, too,
> was faced with the 62 linear inches dilemma, so I modified a UHaul
> cardboard box and put the gig bag case in the box and then lined the
> box with clothes as extra padding. I then reinforced the outside with
> a gazillion windings of UHaul's awesome paper tape.
> On the way down to Brazil, the box was abused beyond belief. The
> corners and sides of the box were so dented and damaged, had it not
> been for the tape, it would have been ripped wide open. The guitar
> made it intact. Those travel guitars are surprisingly durable
> instruments. I expected at least a cracked neck on that trip.
> Once in Brazil, I then reinforced the box again with paper tape I
> brought down with me. On the way back to the states, the box, even
> though it was within 62 linear inches, was checked in as over sized
> baggage, with no extra charge. The return resulted in no damage to the
> box whatsoever. The oversized luggage and boxes come through and are
> placed separately from all the other bags.
It's interesting that you mention Brazil. My brother has played there four
times in the last couple of years. He is a pianist who also plays all the
electric keyboards. He does not travel with any equipment. It is all
contracted with the sound companies that are there to handle the shows.
It sounds like you went to a lot of trouble just to fly with a guitar down
there.
Is it possible to buy or rent one once you arrive in Brazil? ....joe
Peter
I go to the Amazon a lot and that region would definitely not be
considered a musical hotbed when compared with other regions in
Brazil, although they do have a pretty cool Jazz fest now which ran
last week.
From my experience in the North and Northeast parts of Brazil, when
you walk into a music store, you have entered Giannini classical
guitar territory. I have seen American brand instruments, like Gibsom,
but man, were those expensive, much more than you would pay here, as
they are imports.
I am not sure about the renting possibilities in Brazil. Certainly the
variety, prices, and options are much more agreeable in southern
Brazil, like Sao Paulo. Perhaps someone in the group could provide
more info on this topic.
I am becoming a big fan of travel guitars. I love the Yamaha nylon
string in terms in sound, durability, playability, and, of course,
portability. Another guitar that has caught my attention is the
SoloEtte Songbird Jazz. That would be pretty cool to travel with a
compact jazz guitar.
skip
sorry to hear about your ordeals, and thanks for the heads up. As a
clam owner, I try to use it as often as I can when traveling with a
guitar.as it probably still offers the best overall protection for
archtops. From a few net searches It seems that many of the airlines
have the 62" linear baggage limitation written into the guidelines. I
agree there are no immediate solutions to address the issues at
hand , I will however like to offer that I , and a lot of musicians I
know have been quite lucky with the "ASIAN" airlines in general,
without any penalties or excess charges on international flights in /
out of asia and the US.
I will be flying to Singapore for a series of performances during the
F1 races and will try to use the country's national airline, as they
have always been user friendly with my guitars.
Skip
Kevin Van Sant
wrote in message
<3ad7b0c5-fbbb-439d...@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com> :
>Hi Tim,
>sorry to hear about your ordeals, and thanks for the heads up. As a
>clam owner, I try to use it as often as I can when traveling with a
>guitar.as it probably still offers the best overall protection for
>archtops. From a few net searches It seems that many of the airlines
>have the 62" linear baggage limitation written into the guidelines. I
>agree there are no immediate solutions to address the issues at
>hand , I will however like to offer that I , and a lot of musicians I
>know have been quite lucky with the "ASIAN" airlines in general,
>without any penalties or excess charges on international flights in /
>out of asia and the US.
>I will be flying to Singapore for a series of performances during the
>F1 races and will try to use the country's national airline, as they
>have always been user friendly with my guitars.
>Skip
>
Singapore airlines is IMO the best airline out there. And the
Singapore airport is my favorite too.
Joe Finn
I was just wondering based on the expense and the hassle factor. If I went
down there to perform I would require a professional instrument but if I was
there as a tourist for a week or so I would be happy with a cheap classical.
Since I've never been to Brazil yet I'm a little jealous. It must be pretty
amazing. .....joe
Tim Berens
Gerry:
I have done that and it is easier than getting it through the
airport. The clam cases work quite well for protecting your guitar if
you ship Fed Ex.
Tim
thomas
>
> I have done that and it is easier than getting it through the
> airport. The clam cases work quite well for protecting your guitar if
> you ship Fed Ex.
When I bought my Buscarino, FedEx just left it on my front porch. And
that was back when I was living in the ghetto too. I'm lucky some
lowlife didn't notice the box sitting there while I was at work.
Peter
to a from the airport, but having a silent guitar at a hotel, or while
my girlfriend is sleeping, made it worth the effort.
Jeez, I could go on and on about Brazil. I've been going there since
1989, sometimes for work, sometimes for pleasure. Sure, it has its
share of problems, actually more than its share, but the people and
the culture more than make up for that. I've been spending a lot of
time in the Amazon because my girlfriend lives there, and I am sure
the city of Manaus is not everyone's cup of tea, unless one wanted to
do rainforest excursions, but cities like Salvador, Rio, maybe Sao
Paulo, Belo Horizonte, and a ton of others are just wonderful to see.
For what it is worth, I've posted a link to my Facebook page, in which
I have a lot of pics of that part of Brazil --- feel free to check
them out! If that link doesn't work, you can just do a search there
for Peter Franklin in the Tampabay area in Florida.
If you ever do decide to go....let me know --- I will set you up down
there!
Peter
Michael L Kankiewicz
>
> I know this is after the fact but could you have arranged to rent, say
> an Eastman guitar in Beijing? I'm not advocating this, but given the
> Airline issues these days, perhaps we guitarists now have to face what
> pianists, drummers, etc. have had to deal with for decades...not
> knowing the condition of the instrument they will be performing on.
I think the nuances of the feel of a your fingers on your own guitar are
very different than piano keys or drum heads.
MK
Michael L Kankiewicz
>
> If I could pay $35 to ensure my guitar was hand carried (last in/first out)
> to storage and back, in a hard-shell case, I'd be delighted.
When I fly I take my Parker Fly (NPI) in a slim gig bag and carry it on,
and it fits nicely in the overhead. On one ocassion we had to switch to a
small prop plane last minute, and the handlers were kind enough to
gently place it on top of the rest of the luggage while I watched.
MK
Joe Finn
>>I know this is after the fact but could you have arranged to rent, say
>>an Eastman guitar in Beijing? I'm not advocating this, but given the
>>Airline issues these days, perhaps we guitarists now have to face what
>>pianists, drummers, etc. have had to deal with for decades...not
>>knowing the condition of the instrument they will be performing on.
That's a good point, Joe. I don't think playing a rented or borrowed guitar
is a problem. It would be a little like being at a guitar show and playing
various instruments. It's fun really.
Given the nightmares people are reporting with the airlines this may be
something to consider. ........joe
Jazzer
<mich...@buffalo.edu> wrote:
>When I fly I take my Parker Fly (NPI) in a slim gig bag and carry it on,
>and it fits nicely in the overhead. On one ocassion we had to switch to a
>small prop plane last minute, and the handlers were kind enough to
>gently place it on top of the rest of the luggage while I watched.
>
>MK
But what do you do if your guitar is an archtop?
Say an ES-175?
I may be in a situation shortly where I'll need to transport a few
archtops (not at the same time) by plane (connecting flights too).
A gig bag?
Paul Sanwald
every now and then I've had to gate check it, but the vast majority of
the time I walk on to the plane with it and just put it in an overhead
bin.
in various airports, various security people have told me that I
couldn't take it on the plane, they wouldn't let me, and various other
lies. I usually just tell them that the airline has told me I could
gate check it and they let me through, or I just agree, tell them I'll
go check it, and then ignore them. TSA has never given me any grief
going through "real" security.
I usually travel with a cheap guitar and am not opposed to checking
it, but like to practice in the airport so I try to avoid checking at
all costs. the most maddening thing about airports is their lack of
consistency in dealing with instruments. sometimes it's fine, other
times it's the end of the world.
--paul
Gerry
> the most maddening thing about airports is their lack of
> consistency in dealing with instruments. sometimes it's fine, other
> times it's the end of the world.
Exactly. If they would just make some rules and follow them, we could
find a way navitage them.
--
-- Beware the delicate, tiny, very talented celebrity starlets.
Tim Berens
> I usually travel with a cheap guitar and am not opposed to checking
> it, but like to practice in the airport so I try to avoid checking at
> all costs. the most maddening thing about airports is their lack of
> consistency in dealing with instruments. sometimes it's fine, other
> times it's the end of the world.
>
> --paul
That's the most aggravating aspect of the flying with guitar situation
-- the airline's rules are subject to interpretation by the gate
agent. So, every once in a while, you get a gate agent who is in the
mood to enforce the rules and you will wind up with a $200.00
oversized luggage fee, but most of the time you won't.
So, United Airlines, Delta Airlines, etc Airlines.....what do you
expect us to do? Should we plan on your gate agents following your
rules? Or should we plan on your gate agents ignoring your rules?
Our travel cost can be doubled depending on the whim of your gate
agents. So, what do you suggest?
Isn't it laughably naive of me to think that the airlines will
respond?
Tim Berens
http://timberens.com
Jazzer
<t...@timberens.com> wrote:
>
>Isn't it laughably naive of me to think that the airlines will
>respond?
>
>Tim Berens
Not if some of the bigwig corporate execs happen to play jazz guitar.
:)
Jazzer
"It's now more aggravating than ever as passengers bring more carry-on
bags to avoid paying fees for checked luggage, sometimes resulting in
confrontations and delays when there is no space to accommodate them.
Kaswinkel called the carry-on situation "out of control." "
From this online article:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/07/30/flight.attendant.job.realities/index.html
That might be playing a big role in the dilemma faced by flying
guitarists.