Random note/chord/progression generator?
MS
I'm wondering if anyone knows of a quick way to generate random
sequences of notes and chords for ear training purposes.
I've been playing lines through more or less random ii-V-I's as an
exercise and finding it very useful, but I have to actually record them
with a tapedeck beforehand and then just rely on the fact that my
memory isn't particularly good in order to not know what's coming next.
I'd sure like to have a quicker way to generate a midi file of them or
something like that - Ideally being able to randomize either single
notes, or patterns of notes and chords so that rather than just ii-V's
you could randomize altered seventh chords, or a certain bass-line, or
anything that popped into one's head.
Does anyone know of a program that can do such things? Many thanks in
advance for any help.
Malcolm
Marc Sabatella
> sequences of notes and chords for ear training purposes.
Best I can think of, short of coming up with a specialty computer program,
would be to ask a friend to do it.
But I'd suggest that what you ask is not really a great use of your time.
Notes and chords do not normally occur in random sequences, they occur in
fairly specific contexts. Much better to get really good at using this
contextual information to help you hear these more quickly and accurately.
In particular - and this is a recurring point of mine - it is not especially
useful to hear a sequence of two notes played in isolation and be able to
name the interval they describe. In real music situations, the goal isn't
to *name* the interval but to *play* it, and in most of these situations,
the surrounding context makes the identification of the interval trickier
(eg, a minor sixth might sound different depending on where the start and
end notes fall within the chord), but it also makes the job of *playing* the
line rather easier, as it's a pretty safe bet that if you hear something
rising a sixth or so above A over an Fmaj7 chord, that's probably an F on
top, not an F#, and you don't need to be able to different major from minor
sixth to be able to figure this out.
Trying to learn melodies to actual tunes by ear - and similarly trying to
figure out actual chord progressions by ear - is tremendously valuable, and
there really isn't a whole lot of point in not simply attacking the problem
directly.
---------------
Marc Sabatella
ma...@outsideshore.com
The Outside Shore
Music, art, & educational materials:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
MS
looking for something like this - maybe I wasn't clear. I'm not at all
sure why you mention interval identification. Maybe it was just my
initial mention of "ear training" - maybe my definition of this is a
lot broader and less traditional than yours.
I can actually play by ear quite well and it is something I am always
working on. Figuring out the chord progessions and melodies of songs is
no problem for me, though I continue to work on that sort of thing
because it can always be better.
What I am looking for - and I may very well be deluded to even hope
that there might be anything like this out there - is something that
will take a given pattern of notes - ie. ii-V-I's - and make a midi
file with that pattern transposed at random. The reason I am looking
for this is to develop my ability to hear, especially through
unexpected substitutions and difficult changes. It's one thing to hear
a line though changes that one knows in advance, and entirely another
to hear one through unexpected changes. I realize that truly random
changes aren't really something one has to cope with very often, but I
already know from experience that entirely trusting one's ear to cope
with whatever unexpected sounds may arise is a very valuable exercise.
I have heard of highly esteemed teachers recommending similar exercises
- I'm pretty sure Mick Goodrick does, for one.
Anyways, thanks for your response, and I hope this clarifies what I'm
looking for and why.
Malcolm
Joey Goldstein
comping through random chords. The less the chords are related the
better. That's what I used to do.
Just put the tapes away for a few days so you don't remember what you
played that day.
--
Joey Goldstein
http://www.joeygoldstein.com
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
Keith Freeman
http://mypage.uniserve.ca/~bvdp/mma/
-Keith
Music samples, tips, Portable Changes at
http://home.wanadoo.nl/keith.freeman/
E-mail: keith DOT freeman AT wanadoo DOT nl
Marc Sabatella
> looking for something like this - maybe I wasn't clear. I'm not at all
> sure why you mention interval identification. Maybe it was just my
> initial mention of "ear training" - maybe my definition of this is a
> lot broader and less traditional than yours.
I wasn't sure what you had in mind, so I just mentioned that as one thing to
watch out for. But the rest of my post still stands - whatever you are
training your ear to do, if the goal is to be a better musician, then you'll
get the most bang for your buck training your ear to do it in the types of
situation that occur in real life, which do not tend to be random.
> I can actually play by ear quite well and it is something I am always
> working on. Figuring out the chord progessions and melodies of songs is
> no problem for me, though I continue to work on that sort of thing
> because it can always be better.
>
> What I am looking for - and I may very well be deluded to even hope
> that there might be anything like this out there - is something that
> will take a given pattern of notes - ie. ii-V-I's - and make a midi
> file with that pattern transposed at random. The reason I am looking
> for this is to develop my ability to hear, especially through
> unexpected substitutions and difficult changes.
And my point is that such things are *not* usually random. They usually
occur in fairly specific and even predictable (once you start seeing the
patterns) ways, and if you focus your practice on these, you can get quite
good at expecting them and won't find them so difficult. Whereas if you
dilute your practice time by trying to deal with all possible such
combinations, you won't learn to see and hear the patterns that could have
helped you hear them better.
Now, of course that leaves open the question of how to actually do the type
of focusing I am talking about. It still isn't entirely clear what you are
trying to do with this thing you are looking for - treat it as a playalong
so you practice improvising over chord progressions you don't know in
advance? That's a great idea, but you'll get more out of it if you spend
most of your time doing so not over "random" chord progressions, but actual
chord progressions drawn from actual songs that you just don't happen to
know already and that feature the sorts of things you currently find
difficult to hear.
> I realize that truly random
> changes aren't really something one has to cope with very often, but I
> already know from experience that entirely trusting one's ear to cope
> with whatever unexpected sounds may arise is a very valuable exercise.
I agree. But again, you'll get *MUCH* more benefit by focusing this on
things you currently find unexpected but actually occur reasonably commonly.
That said, sure, supplementing this with things that you'll probably never
encounter again isn't a bad thing. But given the patterns that really do
exist, you would be doing yourself a disservice if you didn't spend
proportionately more time on the more common of the "unexpected"
progressions.
MS
learn to use it. However, it also looks pretty formidable to learn to
use - I'm even unsure of whether it will be able to do what I want it
to. Is there anyone out there familiar enough with it to let me know,
based on my previous messages, if it should be able to do what I'm
looking for?
Thanks a lot,
Malcolm
Paul Kirk
set up a 1 chord tune with 50 choruses and have it transpose randomly
after each chorus.
PK
MS
> You'd probably be better off just making your own tapes of yourself
> comping through random chords.
Yeah, that's what I've been doing and may be what I'll have to continue
doing - I'm just looking for a faster, easier adjusted way.
Malcolm
MS
but couldn't. Thanks for the help.
Malcolm
Joey Goldstein
--
Joey Goldstein
randomize a set of given pitches. Not sure how much control you have
over range, etc.
You'd probably have to put in just as much time creating this file as
you would taping your own progressions. Probably more time. Of course
once you've got it, you've got it and every time you run it you'll have
new material. But it probably won't be fun.
And if you're doing the exercise that I think you're doing, the one that
Mick Goodrick gave to me (he probably mentions it in The Advancing
Guitarist too), there is no real need that I can see to go too far with
it. It's not like you should be trying to shred over random chords. I
suppose that's a noble goal too, maybe.
But Mick's thing was an awareness exercise. You play a note and *listen*
to it. You either like it or you don't. If you don't you should find
that the note 1/2 step above or below (sometimes both, sometimes one or
the other) will sound better. Try one of them and *listen* to it. Don't
just jump away from the offending note. resolve it by 1/2 step.
It's an exercise that's supposed to be done rather slowly and
deliberately, especially at the point of a chord change. It's designed
to train you to keep your ears open so that you can better harmonize
with what you *hear* around you on the bandstand.
If you want something more extreme than this then I suggest just playing
along with records or along with the TV.
--
MS
thing, which I only vaguely remember (I did read about it in the
Advancing Guitarist, which I borrowed from someone many years ago). In
any case, I've done my own exercise enough that I'm more than convinced
of its utility. His exercise is very cool as well, though. I'll have to
start doing it too.
Malcolm
MS
> Yeah, but it would always be the same chord type.
Yes, on reflection this isn't the godsend I thought at first. As Joey
says, it wouldn't be able to be totally random, always giving the same
chord-type or progression, and also, you wouldn't be able to randomize
more than one thing - ie. have it alternate randomly between Major
ii-V's and minor ones. It's still pretty cool though and a lot better
than nothing.
Malcolm
Joey Goldstein
If you're doing ii-V's then your exercise is not really about random chords.
Random chords would not be that organized.
Paul Kirk
>
> MS wrote:
>
>>Joey Goldstein wrote:
>>
>>>Yeah, but it would always be the same chord type.
>>
>>Yes, on reflection this isn't the godsend I thought at first. As Joey
>>says, it wouldn't be able to be totally random, always giving the same
>>chord-type or progression, and also, you wouldn't be able to randomize
>>more than one thing - ie. have it alternate randomly between Major
>>ii-V's and minor ones. It's still pretty cool though and a lot better
>>than nothing.
>>
>>Malcolm
>
>
> If you're doing ii-V's then your exercise is not really about random chords.
> Random chords would not be that organized.
>
been practicing ocasionally with this random setting on BIAB going
through choruses of various tunes, especially those tunes to which I'm
fairly tied to the "usual" key, e.g. Stella, or invitation, etc. I try
to lock into the new key (without peeking at the screen) as quickly as
possible and do some combination of letting my ears dictate my lines
without calculating what the chords are, but also try to calculate the
upcoming chord. I'm not sure yet how this benefits me, but maybe after a
while I might be able to tackle "lush life" in some wierd key if ever I
find myself in that situation...
PK
MS
> If you're doing ii-V's then your exercise is not really about random chords.
> Random chords would not be that organized.
I know. I'm looking for something that will randomly transpose a given
progression or set of progressions that I can define - sorry if that
wasn't clear. I know the subject just says "random", but I tried to
explain in the body of my message exactly what I was looking for.
Malcolm
Joey Goldstein
--