Carvin Holdsworth Fatboy Hollowbody
news-server.triad.rr.com
http://www.carvin.com/cgi-bin/Isearch.exe?CFG=2&P2=HF2&P1=GTR
This is a cool guitar, IMO. Has a cool modern look and design. It says
chambered but with the Fatboy its suppose to be hollow like a
semi-hollowbody. Uses some sort of floating suspension system for the
pickups. Carvin is a great bargin I think.
My main goal is to get a fat Russell Malone archtop-like tone. I know it
won't sound like his deep maple body and spruce archtops, but that tone is
what I would like to get as close as possible but this will be a smaller
package, different scale, so it will sound different. I also very much like
the idea of getting Fender-like tones out of this guitar.
I have a really nice Heritage 575 Custom but I really prefer a 1 11/16" neck
width and 25" scale. I haven't been able to find a suitable 25" scale
archtop or hollowbody, but after seeing this one it made me consider a 25.5"
scale.
The specs I *think* I'm set on are:
- Tobacco sunburst with no black and matching headstock.
- Phase and coil switches.
- Dunlop strap locks.
- Abalone block inlays.
- Dunlop Jumbo frets.
Some questions for the group:
- In your opinion what is the best wood choice to achieve a very warm hollow
tone? Unfortunately no spruce top is available. They will offer to do a
maple back. I'm thinking about maple back and birch top since spruce is not
available. I have read maple backs let the tops "come out". But other
potential options are: Koa, Alder, Birch, Maple, Mahagony. The maple back
and top on my Heritage 575 Custom is a little more bright than I like.
- They do not offer a passive piezo option. Is there such a thing? A
piezo tune-o-matic bridge could be added later, I'm just thinking about even
more tonal possibilities. I would prefer a floating bridge and tail piece
but not possible on this guitar without major work. Any opinion on this?
Thanks!
Chuck
Paul Pieper
exciting design. My friend has one, with two Joe Barden humbuckers, and it
plays and sounds great. I'm fascinated by guitars that can serve as a middle
ground between hollow- and solid-bodies - besides more standard designs,
like maybe an ES-335. The fatboy is pretty cheap, all things considered, but
once you start adding options, it can get expensive.
However, I must add a note of caution about this guitar. As shipped,
when you put on a strap and try to stand and play, the guitar is extremely
neck-heavy, so much so that the guitar will not remain in playing position
if you take your hands off of it - the neck will dip to the floor. I had
another friend who returned a fatboy to Carvin, so irritated was he by the
guitar's tendency to do this. Its possible to reposition one of the strap
buttons so that this won't happen, though, which my other friend has done.
I'd love to get one of these guitars actually. Maybe one of these days,
if I could stop looking at $6000 archtops. Damn guitars!!
Paul Pieper
--
"news-server.triad.rr.com" <blahbl...@aol.com> wrote in message
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Adam Gottschalk
I agree very much about the value in Carvins. I've played a ton of
guitars in my life, as I know we all have, and for me, these
production-model axes cannot be beat shy of custom hand-built luthery.
I've owned 2 Carvins, both great. The first was a hybrid AE-185. That
was an active system with under-saddle piezo. The build was top-notch,
and with a mahogany neck-through and back, spruce top, and chambered
body it sounded very rich (especially after I put some Bardens in it).
The spruce top for me added a little too much brilliance. I found I
never grew to like the transducer; it sounded all right, but not good
enough by itself for me, and when mixed with the magnetic signal, well I
just didn't like the combination as much as I had thought I might.
Recently I bought a DC747C 7 string with Floyd Rose. This is the best
playing and sounding electric I've ever had the pleasure of putting my
hands on, no exaggeration at all. The options I got, all of which I'm
very, very happy with, are: 5-piece laminated maple-walnut neck, walnut
body sides, Claro walnut top (neck not showing through top), tung-oil
finish everywhere, jumbo frets, no fretboard inlays, strap locks. (I've
read where luthiers say walnut and mahogany are very similar.) Indeed,
the walnut and maple combo makes for an axe on the heavier side, but
then what I have is perfectly balanced tone-wise, worth every ounce.
Scooped mids, mellow but very articulate and precise, focused. This one
does not have the same tendency to ge too bright like my AE-185 did. The
beefy 7-string laminated neck, and the neck through design, make for
endless sustain even with the Floyd Rose (which adds just a little bit
of shimmer to the low notes). It is 25.5" scale, longer than the AE-185
which is 25". I don't mind the longer scale at all; slightly higher
string tension, but lower action is one of the benefits.
I had my eye on that Holdsworth model before I decided to make the
switch to 7 string. The one thing I'd say is, especially with Carvins
which practically no techs have experience with, you'll probably be
better off in the long run getting the simplest electronics possible. My
AE-185 had very complex, active electronics, coil tapping, phase switch,
piezo. Total nightmare to have electronic work done on it. Also
definitely prone to noise, noisy jacks, noisy switches. While I did use
the coil taps, I never used the phase switch, and ended up never using
the piezo. My new DC 747 is dead quiet in every way, no noisy jacks,
silent switching. Rather than getting the 727 with coil taps, I opted
for this model which has one true single-coil in the middle; perfect set
up for me. I love it. I don't think there's a passive piezo system
available on production guitars like these. I believe you could, with
certain transducers, have the preamp external to the guitar, so that you
wouldn't need the active system with a battery, but I'm not positive.
There are RMC under-saddle piezos, which I believe are used largely for
MIDI conversion, but I've heard those don't sound as good acoustically
as the regular ribbon type USTs. Don't know if that's active or not, but
I would guess so.
In article <DwU2a.242$If5....@twister.southeast.rr.com>,
news-server.triad.rr.com
Yeah I'm also interested in a Buscarino Gigmaster, but it starts at $4k.
Thanks for the info about the heavy dropping neck. Can you be more specific
about where the strap button is mounted to eliminate this? Maybe I could
ask this of Carvin. Is it at the heel of the neck (that the right name)?
This is where I have added one on my Heritage 575 Custom.
Thanks,
Chuck
"Paul Pieper" <ppi...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
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Bradster
"news-server.triad.rr.com" <blahbl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:DwU2a.242$If5....@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>
>
> This is a cool guitar, IMO. Has a cool modern look and design. It says
> chambered but with the Fatboy its suppose to be hollow like a
> semi-hollowbody. Uses some sort of floating suspension system for the
> pickups. Carvin is a great bargin I think.
The twin-beam suspension idea that the Fatboy uses is something Bill Delap
(Allan's guitar luthier) originally came up with. Allan mentioned it to
Carvin and it appears they incorporate it into the Fartboy. Here's how
things went down (according to a reliable friend of mine).
Back in the early 60's Bill Delap (Allan's guitar luthier) loved drag racers
and the twin beam suspension that they had so he got the idea for applying
this to guitars. Delap told Holdsworth about the idea he had for applying
the twin beam suspension theory to guitar (it was to be used on a DELAP
custom guitar that bill delap was going to build for allan). Allan pitched
it to CARVIN and they liked it and started work on it immediately.
Unfortunately, the idea was not patented because ideas can't be patented.
Brad
Chuck
I'd really like to hear comments about choice of wood. I'm beginning to
wonder if the standard alder and birch might be better than maple and birch?
I realize pickups are part of the equation, but I'd like a guitar with as
much "hollowbody timbre" tone as possible in the neck position. Will talk
to Carvin about it too.
Thanks,
Chuck
"news-server.triad.rr.com" <blahbl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:DwU2a.242$If5....@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>
Scott McLoughlin
away is (1) it's sturdy (2) was used to build alot of inexpensive acoustic
guitars dating back to at least the 1930's (3) that includes what most of
the acoustic blues legends played according to one article and (4) it's
still being used for back, side and sometimes top wood to build acoustic
guitars and dulcimers and what not - and these luthiers don't seem to like
it just because it's cheap.
The Holdsworth is one of the jones-for guitars for me. What a cool design.
If I was a 25.5" scale man, I'd have one right now in my loving arms :-)
Maple is great in the back/sides L5 type design and even the plywood 175
design - but IMHO, I don't believe the shiny maple caps on my mahogany
instruments are paying for themselves tonally. The guitar world already
suffers an overdose of maple caps :-)
Unless you're into flamey tops, my gut feeling is to go with the birch.
--
Scott McLoughlin, Chairman
The Adrenaline Group, Inc.
"Chuck" <blahbl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7bZ2a.1461$If5....@twister.southeast.rr.com...
Paul Pieper
voicings he plays. Seems like people making boutiquey arch-tops sometimes
use a 25 inch length, or so...I played a a Comins "Chester Avenue" the other
day and I was floored, and that's what it had, I think, or very close.
Paul Pieper
--
"Scott McLoughlin" <scot...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:fI_2a.51353$zF6.3...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
pmfan57
> Back in the early 60's Bill Delap (Allan's guitar luthier) loved drag racers
> and the twin beam suspension that they had so he got the idea for applying
> this to guitars. Delap told Holdsworth about the idea he had for applying
> the twin beam suspension theory to guitar (it was to be used on a DELAP
> custom guitar that bill delap was going to build for allan). Allan pitched
> it to CARVIN and they liked it and started work on it immediately.
> Unfortunately, the idea was not patented because ideas can't be patented.
>
> Brad
There's no doubt that techniques of luthiery fall well within the
bounds of what constitutes patentable subject matter under the U.S.
patent statutes. The twin beam suspension is not an abstract "idea"
at all. The person who came up with a way to use the twin beam
suspension in a guitar could describe it, with drawings, to show how
it worked and how to make it, and submit it to the Patent Office and
it would get examined.
It may be, however, that it was determined that it couldn't be
patented because someone else had already done it. That would bar
patentability. But it's definitely the KIND of things that can be
patented.
Scott McLoughlin
Strat with a bucker in the bridge, and when I saw him a few years ago he
played a Steinberger through two Yamaha amps.
Of all the handmade archtops I've fondled up at Mandolin Bro or here at
Legato, etc. - the Comins Chester Avenue is far and away my favorite.
"Floored" is a good way to put it. These seem to consistently combine a
very, very easy playing neck and good action with a killer acoustic tone -
even, medium-deep and with no banjoey jangle. Just awesome instruments.
I've avoided getting one for price reasons, but in hindsight that was
misguided. Over the last year or two, with several axe buys and lots of
expensive repair tweaks, I think the Comins would have been a breakeven
proposition, and I would now possess a instrument I really like :-(
Hindsight is 20/20.
You're not considering giving up your semi-hollow tone, are you? :-)
--
Scott McLoughlin, Chairman
The Adrenaline Group, Inc.
"Paul Pieper" <ppi...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
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LeonD
curious what it would look like. It seems like almost everyone orders it
with the maple.
LeonD
"Chuck" <blahbl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7bZ2a.1461$If5....@twister.southeast.rr.com...
Dan Adler
> day and I was floored, and that's what it had, I think, or very close.
>
> Paul Pieper
I played Rick Stone's Comins and one at the LI show last year, and
they are just amazing. If I wasn't so much in love with my '63 ES175 I
might consider one - I think some of his models start in the $4K
range. The ones I tried felt and sounded much better than a lot of
bigger name luthiers that were charging 4 or 5 times as much.
Chuck
From what I understand its pretty much blank with no stand out
grain, like spruce.
I'm thinking about going for alder and birch for a more "fendery"
wood. I could get a better maple and spruce tone (instead of birch) out of
a real archtop. Whatcha think? So difficult to decide and (eventually)
take a chance on whether I like it or not though they have a 10 day return
policy for non-custom requested guitars.
Those Tacomas seem cool. Can be played acousticly or with builtin
pickup and cheaper than most archtops.
I really like my mahagony body and neck and quilted maple custom for
solid-body guitars. Here's my Keith Roscoe custom and Heritage 575 Custom.
http://people.vitalit.com/car/guitars/
Chuck
"LeonD" <ldr...@ma.ultranet.com> wrote in message
news:dDd3a.14836$wH5....@nwrddc04.gnilink.net...
Rob T
>
>http://www.carvin.com/cgi-bin/Isearch.exe?CFG=2&P2=HF2&P1=GTR
>
>This is a cool guitar, IMO. Has a cool modern look and design. It says
>chambered but with the Fatboy its suppose to be hollow like a
>semi-hollowbody. Uses some sort of floating suspension system for the
>pickups. Carvin is a great bargin I think.
>
>My main goal is to get a fat Russell Malone archtop-like tone. I know it
>won't sound like his deep maple body and spruce archtops, but that tone is
>.........snipped to save space.........more tonal possibilities. I would prefer a floating bridge and tail piece
>but not possible on this guitar without major work. Any opinion on this?
>
>Thanks!
>Chuck
>
I recently received a Jackson Jazz'r guitar that I ordered a while
back and had it came with the neck shape I desired it would be a
keeper. The V profile may not be an issue for other but its not mine.
Other than that its a fine guitar. The Seth Lover's were a special
order, it normally comes with a Duncan 59 and a Jazz or you can get
P-90s. I looked at the Holdsworth but the balance issue and the flat
fretboard radius were non-starters for me. Below I've attached a copy
of a review I posted to the Harmony Central Web site a few minutes
ago. r/rob
--------------------------------Jackson Jazz'r review-----
Purchased from: DrumCity GuitarLand, CO
Features: This guitar is a new model, part of their Swee-tone series
that Jackson introduced at the 2002 Winter NAMM show. From an
electronic perspective it's rather simple. Two Duncan Seth Lover
pickups, three way pickup selector, one volume control and a tone
control for each pickup. The unique features of this guitar are in its
construction. The guitar consists of a 25' scale mahogany neck- thru
center section with hollow Sitka spruce sides or wings and a quilted
book matched maple top and back. The neck has a conventional truss rod
but is reinforced with graphite rods added to provide rigidity. The
fingerboard is a nice thick piece of ebony and has small pearloid
position markers in the traditional positions. The neck shape is a V
shape more like the mid 50's strats, 1 11/16 width at the nut and
about .950 thick and fairly uniform throughout its length. The
fretboard radius is a nice and comfortable compound radius. More
Gibson like than the typical flatter Jackson/Charvel fretboard.
Sperzel locking tuners with nice Mother of Pearl buttons. The guitar
body has a thin natural binding on both the top and back ala PRS
guitars. Tune-a-matic type bridge and strings run through the body
like a telecaster. Body size is a somewhere between a Les Paul and a
335. The neck finish is a slick oil finish and I would imagine it will
get faster with use. I will note that the entire guitar is very light
(about 6 lbs, and well balanced. Feels very similar in weight and size
to my Rick Turner Renaissance Nylon Electric. Nice faux alligator
guitar shaped case is included.
Sound: I'm primarily a jazz player whose tone and playing leans
towards the traditional jazz tone i.e. Wes Montgomery, Pat Martino,
George Benson etc. The guitar ships with .009s but I asked the dealer
to set it up with. 11s. I wanted a guitar that would give me tone
similar to my primary instrument, a Guild Benedetto Artist Award
archtop, and it comes close as you can get with .11s and a semi-solid
body. For a jazz tone, I primarily use a Genz Benz Shenandoah
acoustic amp. When playing in a chord melody style, the chords ring
clear and defined yet are warm and articulate. Not having two pickups
on my archtops, I like the difference in tone the other pickup brings
for things like artificial harmonics. Single note tones with the
bridge pickup are very warm and round. When I actually get the guitar
I ordered (more on than later) I'll probably increase the gauge to the
13s that are on my archtop. As far as blues or rock goes, I haven't
been able to crank this up through my tube amp (Fender SF Pro Reverb)
but I have played it through my Tech 21 Trademark 10. With the Tech 21
it sounds very much like a 60' ES345 with PAFs I used to own. Great
blues grind, the Seth Lover's really sound warm and articulate, and in
my opinion, next to the Antiquities, the best pickup Duncan makes.
Great pinch harmonics and the placement of the volume knob easily
allows for pinky volume swells ala Roy Buchanan. I am very pleased
with the range of useful tones from this guitar
Action, Fit, & Finish: Hand built in Jackson's Ontario Ca. The fit,
finish and fret work are excellent. It's finished in Amber lager
Burst. Kind of like a brighter sunburst. Why Fender shows a plain
black finish on the Jackson website is beyond me. This is an
attractive guitar. Absolutely no complaints here.
I can't speak for the action as it arrived from the factory. As I
mentioned earlier, I had the dealer set it up with a heavier string
gauge. Unfortunately due to a another snowstorm in DC (enough
already!), it spent the better part of a whole day sitting in a
freezing FedEx truck and the neck required a bit of adjustment on my
part. I do my own setup anyway and after tweaking the neck, bridge and
resetting the intonation, it plays like a gem. My one complaint is the
V neck shape. I just can't get used to the V shape. Other than that
it's the guitar I had hoped it would be.
Reliability/Durability:
Can't say but it's a well built guitar. Jackson has a good warranty
and from what I've heard stands behind their product.
Customer Support:
Now the bitchin': I ordered this guitar in June 02 after reading a
detailed review of this guitar in Guitar Player. When I ordered it I
was given a choice of a vintage round profile or the V profile. I
didn't think that I would like the V so I chose the round profile.
When I ordered it I was told by Drumcity Guitarland that it would
arrive in about Sept time frame. Ok, longer than I had hoped but not a
problem. Well, Sept ran into Oct, then Nov, and then Fender purchased
Jackson, then along come NAMM and well to cut a long story short the
guitar finally arrives in Feb. The Jackson factory manager was
apologetic and quite honestly at this point I didn't care I was just
glad to be finally getting my guitar, So you can imagine I was quite
ticked off when I picked up the guitar and found they gave it a V neck
profile. Again everyone was apologetic but I was on the verge of
asking for my money back. Jackson offered to reshape the neck profile
and Jason at DrumCity offered to refund my money or order another
guitar. I chose the latter because I really like this guitar. I'm told
this one should take less time…I &&#@^#% hope so because I'm out of
patience. So I'm sending this one back. I just hope that my new guitar
is comes in at the same high level of craftsmanship.
Overall Rating: This is a well made, unique guitar that will suit a
wide variety of playing rock and jazz styles. If you play Death Metal,
or something similar look elsewhere.
Paul Pieper
Isnt that Comins something, though? I couldn't believe it. The only other
guitar I'd liked that much was a Lacey Premier, and at $11,000, that's just
not possible, ever. $6000 is perhaps a little more realistic.
I dont know about "giving up the semi hollow tone"...I try to remember
that tone is more a function of pick attack, and one's hands... phrasing and
note choice will probably be consistent from ax to ax. I'm just getting
tired of the 335...you know how some guitars (like the comins), just have
incredible intonation all over the place? Thats NOT the 335. And I think it
sounds crummy in situations where its exposed, like that duo gig at the
Tabard. I've been playing a Tacoma steel string flat top on that gig, which
I love, but the Comins would rock for that gig, or any gig where the guitar
is that exposed.
These are tough decisions, made more complex by the fact that so much
money is involved.
Paul Pieper
Paul Sanwald
> These are tough decisions, made more complex by the fact that so much
> money is involved.
>
it could be worse, you could be a professional poker player :) !
--paul