Klein electric guitars mystique
Joey Goldstein
guitars, so I started this new thread.
Aside from all the fancy potential electronics and whammy bar system, I
always thought that the body design was supposed to be much more
ergonomic, especially for playing while seated, than any other available
solid-body guitar design.
The idea is that when it sits on your lap, the neck is tilted upwards to
a certain degree which should make using a footstool under the right
foot or a shoulder strap unnecessary.
It's a bit less of an issue with an archtop, but when I play a
solid-body guitar while seated, I always need to get my right leg up a
bit higher than most chairs allow for in order to be in a more optimal
playing position.
This involves either using a footstool under the right foot, or propping
the foot up on the chair leg, or using a shoulder strap.
some guys, like Ed Bickert, simply cross their legs when they play.
My legs don't do that for very long without getting real uncomfortable.
I used to have a Dynarette cushion Vecro-ed onto the bottom of my Tele
so that I could keep both feet squarely on the floor because I was
getting back problems from using a footstool.
It's also hard to find footstools that aren't too high as to cause leg
cramps when used under the right foot.
Most footstools are made for classical guitar player and are to be used
under the left foot which needs to be elevated quite high for proper
classical guitar playing posture.
I sometimes use old volume pedals I have around the house as footstools,
like the old Boss FV-300, which are just about the right height for what
I need.
I use duct tape surrounding the treadle so that it doesn't move anymore.
Lately though, I've just been lowering my office "task-chair" (almost as
low as a Jewish mourner in shiva) and that gets the guitar up high
enough, relative to my body, that it also achieves a better playing posture.
I've thought about having someone make me a Tele-ish body with a few
extra inches of wood tacked on to the bottom curve, which would
accomplish the same thing as the Dynarette.
But it'd be just too weird, even for me, and would probably make the
guitar way heavier.
So, I always thought that the Klein design was supposed to address all that.
The tricky thing would be for him to get it all balanced so that the
guitar isn't either neck heavy or, even worse, body heavy.
But in every pic or video I've ever seen of anyone playing a Klein while
seated, they always have a shoulder strap on too, which makes me think
that it might not really be all that well-balanced anyway.
There are a few guys out there making Klein clones and/or Klein inspired
solid-body guitars too. (Chris Forshage.)
Google "Building the ergonomic guitar".
Ostensibly, you could have one made with a chambered body, and maybe
even with an archtop-like bridge, like the one on Jack's El Rey, I
suppose, if you really wanted that type of body shape.
But even these copies appear to be real expensive, especially for
something that would really be an experiment until you got a chance to
actually play it.
But I agree with Jack that most of the Kleins I've heard just sound like
typical solid-body guitars.
It's really supposed to be the ergonomics of it all that is the big
attraction.
And I never even noticed that they didn't have truss rods.
That's just plain stupid.
Unless it uses some sort of a composite, non-wood, construction neck
material, but even then it wouldn't be optimal IMO.
--
Joey Goldstein
<http://www.joeygoldstein.com>
<http://homepage.mac.com/josephgoldstein/AudioClips/audio.htm>
joegold AT primus DOT ca
Greger Hoel
<nos...@nowhere.net>:
> It's really supposed to be the ergonomics of it all that is the big
> attraction.
IIRC, somebody here owns or have at least played both Kleins and Forshage
Klein copies. Marc Why, maybe? Anyhow, this guy said Forshage had improved
on Klein's design re ergonomics.
> And I never even noticed that they didn't have truss rods.
> That's just plain stupid.
> Unless it uses some sort of a composite, non-wood, construction neck
> material, but even then it wouldn't be optimal IMO.
Being that the Trans-Trem whammy system requires double ball end strings
which only come in light gauges, I'd think the need for a trussrod isn't
as big on a Klein. Also, IIRC, the neck's made out of very hard and heavy
rosewood that's unlikely to warp. Anyhow, my guess would be that Klein
made it without a trussrod to reduce neck heaviness.
--
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Greg/oasysco
It wouldn't be the first time guitars did not have an adjustable truss
rod; back in the 40's, 50's and 60's there were plenty of Silvertone
and like guitars with no adjustable truss rod and perhaps nothing at
all but wood. Weren't there some Gretsches early like that, too?
Marc Why
Yep, Greger's correct -- I owned a Klein, but then bought a Forshage
"jazz" model (the Klein neck was too narrow for my big hands, and I
sold it for double what I paid!). The main improvements -- besides
price -- with the Forshage were that there is a truss rod for
potential adjustments and a different bridge system so you can use any
gauge string (unlike the Klein, which was limited to double-ball 9's
and 10's), and it's custom made to your specs. Both guitars are very
balanced, and the seated ergonomics ARE wonderful. I always play with
a strap, but you don't really need to with that style of guitar.
As most know, Steve Klein sold the design to one of his guys, Lorenzo
German, who ended up having health and/or financial problems, and
disappointed a lot of people who had made down payments for their
guitars when he closed his shop. So, you can't get a "new" Klein, and
the "mystique" keeps their resale very high ($4-7K on ebay), which is
kinda ridiculous, IMO, given that any skilled luthier could make a
similar model (the Klein blueprints are out there) for significantly
less. Getting decent hardware is probably the biggest problem ...
So now we have Forshage, Rick Canton, Curtis Guitars, and even Saul
Koll making their versions, which are all very nice, but still in the
$3k or more range (I think Koll's "ergonomic archtop" is the most
expensive).
Check out Tom Lagana or Tim Miller -- they get nice jazz sounds out of
their ergo guitars.
If you played one, you'd like it.
Marc
Mark Guest
Also check out Brad Nickerson's "Ogre" model (Ergo bacwards). I'm
having one built for me. I've gigged w/ a prototype and found it to be
very comfortable and ridiculously responsive for a solid body (or any
other type...) I'll post more once I get it.
Marc Why
>
> Also check out Brad Nickerson's "Ogre" model (Ergo bacwards). I'm
> having one built for me. I've gigged w/ a prototype and found it to be
> very comfortable and ridiculously responsive for a solid body (or any
> other type...) I'll post more once I get it.
Mark,
That's great to hear, and yes, please post some pics when it arrives!
Nickerson makes some nice guitars, so I'm sure it'll be great.
Marc
Joey Goldstein
> Hey Joey,
> Yep, Greger's correct -- I owned a Klein, but then bought a Forshage
> "jazz" model (the Klein neck was too narrow for my big hands, and I
> sold it for double what I paid!). The main improvements -- besides
> price -- with the Forshage were that there is a truss rod for
> potential adjustments
> and a different bridge system so you can use any
> gauge string (unlike the Klein, which was limited to double-ball 9's
> and 10's),
Wow.
Yet Mick Goodrick and Jody Fisher get a nice warm jazz tone with those
.09's.
I tend to use .012s on my set-up-for-jazz guitars.
I keep trying to go down to .011s but I always miss the .012s.
No way I'd ever play a guitar that limited me to one string gauge,
especially to .09s.
Even on my set-up-for-fusion/rock guitars I never go any lower than .010s.
> and it's custom made to your specs. Both guitars are very
> balanced, and the seated ergonomics ARE wonderful. I always play with
> a strap, but you don't really need to with that style of guitar.
Ah. So the Klein *is* balanced while sitting.
That's good to know.
I've seen vids of someone playing the Forshage while seated w/o a strap.
Is the Forshage body a bit bigger than the Klein?
Also, do you know if the balance depends on using the headless neck and
the Steinberger Trems?
If I ever do go this route I won't want those features.
> As most know, Steve Klein sold the design to one of his guys, Lorenzo
> German, who ended up having health and/or financial problems, and
> disappointed a lot of people who had made down payments for their
> guitars when he closed his shop. So, you can't get a "new" Klein, and
> the "mystique" keeps their resale very high ($4-7K on ebay), which is
> kinda ridiculous, IMO, given that any skilled luthier could make a
> similar model (the Klein blueprints are out there) for significantly
> less. Getting decent hardware is probably the biggest problem ...
>
> So now we have Forshage, Rick Canton, Curtis Guitars, and even Saul
> Koll making their versions, which are all very nice, but still in the
> $3k or more range (I think Koll's "ergonomic archtop" is the most
> expensive).
>
> Check out Tom Lagana or Tim Miller -- they get nice jazz sounds out of
> their ergo guitars.
>
> If you played one, you'd like it.
>
> Marc
Thanks for the info Marc!
Marc Why
> Also, do you know if the balance depends on using the headless neck and
> the Steinberger Trems?
> If I ever do go this route I won't want those features.
Joey,
Yeah, I'm a huge fan of both Jody and Mick, although I think Jody gets
more of a "traditional" jazz sound than Mick ..
I think the Forshage IS a bit bigger than the klein. Search for Roger
Placer on youtube -- he owns both, and has a bunch of videos, so you
can maybe see the difference.
Forshage does not use Steinberger parts -- he uses fixed bridge
designs. I've heard luthiers/players comment that these ergo models
don't NEED to be headless, so I'm sure one of these guys can make a
"normal" one for you! ;-)
Also check out Joe Giglio's videos with his Forshage headless -- he
has fancy electronics, and gets some great sounds!
Marc
brenda...@gmail.com
Check it out!
clevelandjazz
mcle...@comcast.net
and sure does not do a thing for me.
Deacon Mark Cleary
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Tony Done
> My Klein is up for sale on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Klein-BF-96-Custom-Electric-Guitar-Built-By-Lorenzo-German-/161550246216
> Check it out!
>
--
Tony Done
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