Are pricey archtops worth the bread?
Vinyltap
and trying to build up my nerve.
Geez....L-5's and Super 400's going for
say, six grand and up to ten and over that
for vintage. Way over.
Man, it's really a large stack of bills
for these things.
I know there are other options....local
dealer has a Heritage Super Eagle covered
with flame for around $2600.
But specifically stuff like Super 400's,
wow...you could do a lot with a stack of
bills that high! Like put it in a CD and
make 50 bucks a month off it.
Chris Johnson
is a very good price these days.
Top rated archtop luthiers get between six and 35 thousand bucks
a piece for their instruments. At least, I've been told that
Bob Benedetto's top model sells for 35 grand. I do know that
Linda Manzer's guitars start at around six thousand and climb
to 18 thousand, and she has a waiting list that's near two years
long. People will buy them!
But, there are more choices that will get you an excellent
hand-made archtop. I don't want to come across wrong, but
I will soon be entering the market myself as a builder.
I'm getting ready and making prototypes now. I'll start out
with prices on the low end of the scale, comparable to that
Heritage but hopefully I can make something better.]
CJ
Paul Sanwald
guitar seems silly to me, unless you have enough money so that it's
not a big deal at all. some of the greatest players in jazz, and in
music in general, have played pretty pedestrian instruments.
personally, I think bread like that is better spent on lessons or cds
or something like that.
--paul
viny...@aol.com (Vinyltap) wrote in message news:<20010709094050...@ng-fz1.aol.com>...
Dick Schneiders
>guitar seems silly to me, unless you have enough money so that it's
>not a big deal at all. some of the greatest players in jazz, and in
>music in general, have played pretty pedestrian instruments.
>personally, I think bread like that is better spent on lessons or cds
>or something like that.
>
>--paul
>
Have you priced other instruments like quality cellos or violins or horns
lately? Why is the quality (and high priced) guitar "silly" and not these
other even more expensive instruments?
Dick Schneiders
Wound3rd
>lately? Why is the quality (and high priced) guitar "silly" and not these
>other even more expensive instruments?
>
>Dick Schneiders
Exactly!
Compared to what?
No, I did not have to spend $6000 on a Comins, but yeah, I had the $ and I
think of this guitar as being a REAL musical instrument, comparable to the
"fine" instruments in other catagories.
I wanted to own at least one thing that is craftmanship defined and not some
piece of shit. No, I'm not dragging this guitar just anywhere and I have
cheaper (cheapo) guitars too, but this is the one luxury I was not going to
pass up.
Are most of these luthiers getting rich? Hell, no.
If they were then I'd have to think that I'm getting ripped off. But such is
not the case.
Once you have an instrument custom made to your specs and the sound and feel
are just plain perfection, it's easy to understand why some want to pay the $
for them.
Bob
Jay Vyas
to the value of the "high" price to your overall economic situation.
While I can appreciate that certain archtops might cost $15K-$45K, I
don't think I'd get any additional enjoyment out of owning one that I
wouldn't from a well made one that cost more in the $5K range. (Nor
could I afford it!)
So, everyone kind of has the line where they can afford something, and
it's worth it to them to own/play that particular instrument. Nothing
wrong with owning and loving a $400 DeArmond archtop, and nothing
wrong with owning (and hopefully playing! :-)) a $50K D'Aquisto.
Certain brands, like Gibson, seem to charge more for the same product,
so to speak, because of brand recognition. That's obviously important
if you think you're going to sell the instrument soon, but you don't
always get more instrument for your dollar.
Chris Johnson <cmjo...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message news:<3B49BB9A...@cfl.rr.com>...
Garrett Kenehan
Wound3rd <woun...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>Exactly!
>Compared to what?
>No, I did not have to spend $6000 on a Comins, but yeah, I had the $ and I
>think of this guitar as being a REAL musical instrument, comparable to the
>"fine" instruments in other catagories.
>I wanted to own at least one thing that is craftmanship defined and not some
>piece of shit. No, I'm not dragging this guitar just anywhere and I have
>cheaper (cheapo) guitars too, but this is the one luxury I was not going to
>pass up.
>Are most of these luthiers getting rich? Hell, no.
>If they were then I'd have to think that I'm getting ripped off. But such is
>not the case.
>Once you have an instrument custom made to your specs and the sound and feel
>are just plain perfection, it's easy to understand why some want to pay the $
>for them.
>Bob
Thanks Bob, for validating my new Comins Classic on the way. :) What did
you get?
-Garrett
Chris Johnson
(or her) instruments according to the ATMWB philosophy.
(All The Market Will Bear.) They all use their waiting list (All good
luthiers who are "seriously in business" have one) as their price
determining tool. Generally speaking, a waiting list between one and
two years means your price range is about right. If it gets longer
than two years (or 18 months, or whatever the luthier decides) then
the prices are too low and it's time for a hike. If the waiting
list drops under a year, it's time to cut prices.
Now, you'd think 'why do you even want a waiting list that long?
As long as you've got the next order, why don you need more than
that?' The answer there is that it's good marketing, for one,
and you'd hate to be in a position where suddenly you had nobody
waiting for an instrument. All of a sudden you might have to
think about getting a job. Horrible thought. So you price
them to generate a good long waiting list and it's job security.
Of course, you've got to learn to make instruments that are worth
waiting for!
If a particular luthier has a waiting list near 2 years and his
instruments start at 7 grand and go up to 20, there's no reason
why he'd ever have to even think about offering an 'affordable'
instrument. He has no reason to make student models and it'd
represent a huge loss of profits.
It'd be silly NOT to charge as much as you can get!
In my case, I expect to start out with instruments in the
2000 to 4000 dollar range, depending on features and decorations.
In time, I hope to see a waiting list start to grow.
But first things first. I've got to finish up some prototypes
and attend to the startup of the business and outfitting of
a suitable shop.
And of course, being fresh in the business, I might have to
make some sweet deals in order to get the ball rolling.
It's be worth it to cut my profit on the first couple of
guitars in order to get some into the right hands and
let word of mouth start to spread.
CJ
Paul Sanwald
>
> Have you priced other instruments like quality cellos or violins or horns
> lately? Why is the quality (and high priced) guitar "silly" and not these
> other even more expensive instruments?
>
My point is not that it's silly to have high priced instruments. I was
just wondering why someone would pay that much for an instrument when
it's clearly not overwhelmingly beneficial. I pointed out that if you
have the money, then obviously it's no big deal. However if you don't,
what's the point of saving up a ridiculous sum for a guitar when the
history of the instrument is filled with players that didn't (and
don't) play or record wih those instruments?
also, on a related note, violins and cellos and other high priced
stringed instruments aren't generally amplified, whereas guitars are.
since, to my knoweledge, they don't make amplifiers that can reproduce
the acoustic sound of the instrument very accurately, why would you
pay 4-5 grand extra for an acoustic presence that will be unheard by
your audience?
--paul
Max Leggett
>>lately? Why is the quality (and high priced) guitar "silly" and not these
>>other even more expensive instruments?
The guitar being massively more popular than the violin, say,
manufacturers can churn out playable guitars on assemble lines, and
reap the economies of scale that go along with mass production. So
guitars, to a certain level, are dirt cheap compared to other
instruments. I have a Washburn HB30 [335 clone] which is an excellent
guitar, and cost under $600. Certainly playable at a professional
level, like gigging in bars. A violin that can be played at a
professional level, say the Vancouver Symphony, nothing big time,
will be $5000, at least, as there isn't the demand for violins, and
hence not the economies of scale of mass production. Once guitars get
above a certain level of craftsmanship, then there isn't the demand,
and so they can't be mass produced. Ergo, no economies of scale at
upper end guitars. But Buscarinos, Benedettos, and all the other
instruments I can't afford are fairly priced. If you want a top notch
professional instrument, then you'll have to pay for it. Pity the
violinist in the Berlin Phil who needs a Strad at several hundred
thou. In some music forms, inexpensive guitars, like a Strat, are just
fine. Once you put it through half a dozen effects boxes and an
overdriven amp, then anything better made than a slab is a waste. If I
had the money, I'd buy a top of the line Benny. Not that I need one,
but it'd be neat to have. I'm sure it would improve my playing, as
well . :):) As it is, though, I have an Epi JP, mass produced in
Korea, and it's just fine. If I had the bucks, I'd have a Rolls Royce
Silver Corniche, as well - it's a much better can than a Ford. In the
meantime, I'll take the bus.
Chris Johnson
or a Lamborghini when a Toyota Camry gets you to work just as well
and with a decent measure of performance and comfort as well.
The Toyota is good for 120 MPH plus, too! (I know...tried it.)
But if you've got the money, there's not much doubt you'd want to
get the Ferrari or Lamborghini even if you're not the driver it takes
to get the most out of the car.
There's a real advantage to having a 'prestige model', at least in
the eyes of the beholder. My guitar teacher recently had the unique
opportunity to own the last Barker archtop that Mr. Barker made.
It's a fantastic instrument with an incredible feel. I'd say that
it is definitely worth FAR more than the price that was paid for it.
And that price wasn't particularly low.
There's something about a hand-made, master-built instrument that
transcends measurements. You pick it up, play it, and get this
feeling about it that tells you you're playing something really
special that can't be measured. You want it even if you can't
afford it.
As for not recording (or even playing) with the guitar, well,
what's the point of owning artworks? To enjoy them. You don't
take them off the wall and put them in the front seat of the
car and take them for joyrides. You just look at them and appreciate
them. Certainly you can do that with a guitar, too. And you
CAN actually do something with a musical instrument that you can't
with other forms of artwork, namely play it.
I do think any fine instrument should be appreciated and enjoyed.
Even if you don't play it, it's a good thing to look at, touch it,
and admire it. That serves the intent of the maker, to create
something that will be enjoyed and appreciated. But to actually
PLAY it is much much better. That is the PRIMARY purpose for its
existence.
As for affordability...I know of at least one complete idiot who
probably makes what a dishwasher makes and he's making payments
on a Lincoln Navigator. His house isn't worth the price of the
rims he put on it but he's happy, he's got his status symbol.
He may be stupid but he has his toy. Can I really blame him?
Even if he ends up homeless, he'd still be happy because he'd
be in his expensive vehicle all the time with probably more of
the comforts of home than he has in his home. Just as long as
he keeps making the payments he's all right in his book.
Amplification: It's not the amps, it's the transducer technology
that doesn't capture the full acoustic sound just yet. Accurate
amps have been around since the thirties.
CJ
Wound3rd
>Thanks Bob, for validating my new Comins Classic on the way. :) What did
>you get?
>
>-Garrett
>
A 16" Chester Avenue w/ built-in Kent Armstrong; 1 11/16" nut.
I have a friend who bought a Classic and we regularly comment on how happy we
is with these guitars.
Two years later and the honeymoon continues.
Bob
Ted
My $0.02.
For some reason, jazz guitarists in particular are so weird about
paying for a decent instrument. You take the average bluegrasser who
works in a factory during the day for $5.00/hr, they STILL have at
least one high quality D-28, if not two, or high end Mandolin. Guys
who plays blues will also shell out for a high quality Strat or Les
Paul. Rockabilly guys will shell out for a Gretsch 6120, preferably
vintage. They realize that playing music on a good instrument DOES
matter.
Now, do I think that paying $17K for a Guild Benedetto is worth it?
Hell NO! I played two at Mandolin Brothers and thought they were shit.
Even 4 of the 5 original Benedettos that I've played simply weren't
that great (just one of the reasons why people who payed that amount
for them can't get their money back). Most of the high end archtops
today are made for what the majority of the customers want, an
acoustic instrument that needs to play like an electric. For that,
most of the current archtops out there simply aren't good for straight
acoustic playing, IMHO. I do think that paying up to $6K for an
instrument by Comins, Campelone or someone similar is worth it.
Best,
Ted
woun...@aol.com (Wound3rd) wrote in message news:<20010709145950...@ng-fj1.aol.com>...
Wound3rd
appeal.
My "pricey" archtop feels great and it is the one guitar I play with
confidence; everything is "right" about it.
Trying to find a production model with the right combination of features and
specs is rather impossible.
Even among the quality guitars out there, what works on paper and what feels
right can vary quite a bit.
Bob
Jimmy Bruno
.... most of the time... you get what you pay for. There is a reason why
Benedettos are so expensive
duffy doherty
instruments? I know I know I should never have left Boston......
Duffy
Chris Johnson <cmjo...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3B4A1FD7...@cfl.rr.com...
Vinyltap
>Have you priced other instruments like >quality cellos or violins or horns
>lately? Why is the quality (and high >priced) guitar "silly" and not these
>other even more expensive instruments?
First, separate the new instruments from the vintage ones. After you do that
the perspective changes in many areas.
You can actually get just about the most desirable vintage sax out there for
the bottom price of a new, "High end" archtop.
Jimwhoknows
for free.
Thank you, and good night.
gladu hebert
If it is a gig guitar what kind of gigs do you plan to play your new
gutar at? If you have good paying gig at nice jazz club I would go
with a nice Heritage.
IMHO do not think anybody could hear the difference between say a L-5
and a Golden Eagle.
For writing or playing at home I would look for an old Epiphone or
Gibson
archtop acoustic with a good neck , no cracks in the top and then get
it set up by a good repair guy. I would not worry about cosmetics but
listen to tell if I would like to hear to this guitar for the next 20
or 30 years.
IMO you could spend a lot of money for a new guitar but why? You
lose alot
just walking out the door. If you live in a music center like
Nashville, NYC
Vegas or LA you have good chance of finding what you want used at nice
price. I find that the best deals are often found right after
Christmas. Look in your local traders post or newspaper . Like cars
you get the best deal from people not dealers. Also ebay is a good
resource at least you can get a feel for current prices.
Now for very pricey guitars above 10k I feel you have to think of
them as investments as well as instruments but I do not feel like I
could tell
if twenty or thirty years from now Benedettos or what ever will have
the same value as D'Angelico's do now. Also what happens if your cat
or dogs sratches it while you are in the john or something? If you
have to refinish a guitar the collectors value goes way down. IMHO I
would personaly draw the line at around the price of a good bass or
ski boat 5000 to 10000 and that's only if I had a great job and could
pay cash. You can find some really nice guitars in that price range. I
have seen a lot great guitar players using guitars in that price range
or even less with wonderful sounds. In a work situation a great cord
and amp seem to help get all the sound out. I also do not like the
idea of buying a great expensive guitar as a major investment then
leaving it in the closet because it is an investment...
That's my opinion on buying guitars. I plan to buy a nice 50's Epi
archtop acoustic soon but to tell the truth I have a Martin F-7
archtop from '34 and it sounds fine to me also my Gibson SJ is nice
for some things if you mute it right. It is all in what you like. I
have a $125 Yamaha that sounds great for blues...
Gladu
David J. Littleboy
"Max Leggett" <mlegget@no_bs.ca> wrote:
>
> The guitar being massively more popular than the violin, say,
> manufacturers can churn out playable guitars on assemble lines, and
> reap the economies of scale that go along with mass production.
I don't think this comparison flies. Gibsons and Heritages are mass
produced, yet at their best are competitive with (or at least not completely
ridiculous in comparison to) the best handmade guitars. Nobody gets laughed
out of a gig for using either a Gibson or a Heritage Johnny Smith. But there
hasn't been a decent violin made since 1800, and there's never been a decent
mass produced violin made (and I'd guess that a lot more violins have been
mass produced than acoustic archtops<g>). And unless you borrow a decent
instrument for the tryout, you probably won't get a job in a big orchestra,
no matter how well you play. Big difference. (At least that was the state of
affairs ca. 1972, anyway.)
David J. Littleboy
dav...@gol.com
Tokyo, Japan
Greg
> I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but paying that much for a
> guitar seems silly to me, unless you have enough money so that it's
> not a big deal at all. some of the greatest players in jazz, and in
> music in general, have played pretty pedestrian instruments.
> personally, I think bread like that is better spent on lessons or cds
> or something like that.
Owning a high-end archtop is no different than being able to afford a
Mercedes over a Ford Pinto; no different than being able to afford a
3000 sqft house over a 2-room dive...
To me at my level of play and interest, owning an expensive archtop is
silly, too, but to others, owning 5 guitars and 4 amps, like I do,
might seem silly.
I like having more than one guitar, so I go for cheaper stuff. If ever
I reach the point where having only one guitar will suffice, then I'd
probably sell everything I have a buy a little higher on the ladder.
It just depends on where you are musically, financially,
interest-wise, and whether as a pro musician, you can deduct the cost
of your gear...
In the end, some of us enjoy fine French wine while others of us get
along just fine with a bottle of Boone's Farm. Hey, there both wines,
right?
Greg
Colin Cotter
the upper price range guitars. I've had some 8ff-a-bottle wine in France that was the best!
Greg wrote:
--
************
Colin Cotter
************
Chris Johnson
"David J. Littleboy" wrote:
>
> ..."But there hasn't been a decent violin made since 1800, and there's
> never been a decent mass produced violin made (and I'd guess that a
> lot more violins have been mass produced than acoustic archtops<g>).
> And unless you borrow a decent instrument for the tryout, you probably
> won't get a job in a big orchestra, no matter how well you play.
> Big difference. (At least that was the state of affairs ca. 1972, anyway.)
>
> David J. Littleboy
> dav...@gol.com
> Tokyo, Japan
These days, that just isn't true at all. Violinists have for the most
part gotten around that mental block that says no good violins have
been made since 1800 or so. If you're a violinist today and looking
for a concert grade instrument, you can pick and choose from many fine
hand crafted violins by a fairly large number of excellent custom
makers.
Bob Benedetto makes high quality concert grade violins in addition to
his guitars. Stephan(ie???) Grappelli used one of his violins, and
some others as well. Here's a link to another good maker:
http://www.vanzandtviolins.com/
While it's true that there aren't any mass-produced violins of
concert quality, that has always been true. In the late 1700's,
those violins were hand made and not mass produced, either.
And not just because that was before the days of mass production!
Mass-produced violin family instruments are student grade instruments
and always have been and probably always will be. But when you get
good enough that you need better, there are makers that can produce
an instrument of high quality and excellent tone.
This is necessary to fill the demand for good instruments, at least,
because while the percentage of people who play violins (and violas
and cellos, etc) in orchestras is lower than it once was, there
are actually more people playing than there were at any point in
history due to population growth. Demand has never been greater
in real terms. And, the really great old violins are getting old
and many have been retired from regular playing due to wear and tear
that can't be fixed. When the wood gets old and weak, there's
not much that can be done but to retire the instrument from playing
service. It has been estimated that the last Guarneris and Strads
will be retired in another 50 years, and as of now, there are very
few Amatis still in service on the stage.
But not to worry. Excellent modern makers are proving themselves
able to make concert grade instruments with a full, rich tone.
CJ
G-man
> If you get what you pay for, then I'm thinking you got your benedetto guitars
> for free.
>
> Thank you, and good night.
Hold on there.
Now I don't know what kind of "discount" that JB gets on his
guitars, but even if he gets them for free, the price he
paid for them is the lifetime of hard work, blood, sweat,
and paying his dues to become the kind of musician that
a Bob Benedetto would choose as an endorser.
I think that for most of us it would be easier to pay
full retail.
Geoff...
Jimmy Bruno
made guitars. When I go to those shows every luthier is dying to have me
play their instruments. and I can tell you based on the pricing of the
guitars that I have played, you get what you pay for. I am not saying that
the other guitars are bad, in fact, quite the contrary, there are many fine
luthiers out there. then there is BOB.....
> From: dre...@yahoo.ca (G-man)
> Organization: http://groups.google.com/
> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz
> Date: 10 Jul 2001 09:19:55 -0700
> Subject: Re: Are pricey archtops worth the bread?
>
Chris Johnson
"big name" player hoping for some level of endorsement so that I can
SELL them to people who just like to play the guitar and probably
aren't well-known as players. Isn't it odd?
Well, so be it. If that's what it takes to get an endorsement
(and presumably some orders as a result) then I'm there.
So, Jimmy, what can I make you? Fully customized to your tastes!
(Only half joking...)
CJ
Mark Kleinhaut
Chris Johnson <cmjo...@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>So, when I being selling archtops, I'm going to GIVE one away to a
>"big name" player hoping for some level of endorsement so that I can
>SELL them to people who just like to play the guitar and probably
>aren't well-known as players. Isn't it odd?
>
>Well, so be it. If that's what it takes to get an endorsement
>(and presumably some orders as a result) then I'm there.
>
>So, Jimmy, what can I make you? Fully customized to your tastes!
>
>(Only half joking...)
>
Mark Kleinhaut markkl...@hotmail.com
Follow URL's for info and soundclips about:
my debut album "Amphora"
www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Amphora.html
my newest album "Secrets of Three"
www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/SO3.html
Max Leggett
>Chris Johnson <cmjo...@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>So, when I being selling archtops, I'm going to GIVE one away to a
>>"big name" player hoping for some level of endorsement so that I can
>>SELL them to people who just like to play the guitar and probably
>>aren't well-known as players. Isn't it odd?
>>
>>Well, so be it. If that's what it takes to get an endorsement
>>(and presumably some orders as a result) then I'm there.
>>
>>So, Jimmy, what can I make you? Fully customized to your tastes!
>>
>>(Only half joking...)
>>
>Jimmy's already got too many guitars. I, on the other hand.........
>Mark Kleinhaut markkl...@hotmail.com
Mark's got a good day gig. I, on the other hand ..........
RobinsonCHAZZ
play their instruments. and I can tell you based on the pricing of the
guitars that I have played, you get what you pay for. I am not saying that
the other guitars are bad, in fact, quite the contrary, there are many fine
luthiers out there. then there is BOB.....
>>
<< Jimmy Bruno >>
Jimmy!-Email me as soon as possible and I will give you my name and address.
Then you can have all of those guys that you don't feel like messing around
with send me their guitars. Thanks in advance--CR
Jimmy Bruno
your product is a step in the right direction as long as the guy really
likes your work... that way you are sure he will play the guitar. Good luck
with your guitar making and hang in there... there is always room for
quality
Jimmy Bruno
on this newsgroup... my least favorite things to read are about theory
> From: robins...@aol.com (RobinsonCHAZZ)
> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz
> Date: 10 Jul 2001 19:42:50 GMT
> Subject: Re: Are pricey archtops worth the bread?
>
thomas
> So, when I being selling archtops, I'm going to GIVE one away to a
> "big name" player hoping for some level of endorsement so that I can
> SELL them to people who just like to play the guitar and probably
> aren't well-known as players. Isn't it odd?
>
> Well, so be it. If that's what it takes to get an endorsement
> (and presumably some orders as a result) then I'm there.
Benedetto was smart that way. He turned Ron Eschete and Joe Diorio on
to some freebies circa the late 70s/early 80s. Both of those guys were
teachng at GIT, and I know that Bob got some orders off of having Ron
and Joe playing his guitars in a highly visible setting. Before they
got the freebies, Joe was playing a 175 and Ron was playing an Epi HR,
I believe. They had good instruments but far from top-of-the-line.
Paul Craven
Max is an enervated aristocrat, pretender to some redundant monarchy.
I, on the other hand, ...
________________
Paul Craven
RobinsonCHAZZ
on this newsgroup... my least favorite things to read are about theory
>>
<< Jimmy Bruno >>
Honestly I've never seen a whole lot of difference between "you put your finger
here" and "this is the seventh" and I doubt if there is any guitarist in the
world who thinks about any of that stuff in the middle of a solo. But we are at
present communicating in a medium where we can neither hear each other or
visualize what our hands are doing. Under these circumstances I don't see any
harm in using what little bit of knowledge of theory that we have to try to
express musical ideas to each other, but I agree, at times it can become
boring. CR
Chris Johnson
dent in this conversation, but it does seem to me that the first thing
any guitar player needs to know when soloing is what notes (and
finger patterns) fit into the progression being played. This does
require a certain amount of basic theory. In my case, for a given
position and scale/mode, I recall all of this as a physical pattern
on the fingerboard and I don't think of the names of the notes at all.
I guess it's theory of a sort. I just try to keep my fingers somewhere
in that pattern and hope for the best.
CJ
Jimmy Bruno
things are fine except most of it is so academic that it seems to me to be
hardly valid in a real playing situation. Music is sound, and is supposed
to be fun... It's not rocket science. I say theorize a little less and
enjoy making the music a little more
> From: Chris Johnson <cmjo...@cfl.rr.com>
> Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida
> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz
> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 00:56:59 GMT
> Subject: Re: Are pricey archtops worth the bread?
>
BREZ9091
johnny smith models,signed by johnny.i have a feelin' heritage won't be around
much longer,as we know it now[independent].these guitars will appreciate
greatly,when they close or are swallowed up.this is just my own personal
forecasting based on intuition alone.[but i've got a good track record]
Chris Johnson
were a map, I'd get lost in a paper bag with a map and a
flashlight. I'm not much better at just playing because I don't
practice anywhere near as much as I should. I spend far more time
refining my guitar making skills. I've always been better at making
them than playing them. So what little playing I do, I do by
memorizing the physical layout of the scale that I THINK is the
right one for what's being played. A very low tech approach.
Nevertheless, I do have fun playing as long as there's nobody around
to hear how lousy I am. And if I want to really get better, I will.
But for now, I can play well enough to evaluate any guitar for
any playability issues and correct those issues. That's good enough
for my needs.
CJ
Feng-Yu Tsai
"Jimmy Bruno" <ji...@jimmybruno.com> wrote in message
news:B7713AC5.290F%ji...@jimmybruno.com...
> wow! everyone is very serious here about music and guitar!!!!! The
theory
> things are fine except most of it is so academic that it seems to me to be
> hardly valid in a real playing situation. Music is sound, and is
supposed
> to be fun... It's not rocket science. I say theorize a little less and
> enjoy making the music a little more
I seem to remember reading someone here mention something to the effect of
"Talented musicians make music; mediocre musicians analyze it." I think,
however, that the second part of that statement should be "mediocre
musicians analyze it, absorb it, and become as good."
I guess I will just continue analyze your and other greats' music that was
made while having fun, and hope that someday I will become as good.
Feng-Yu
Jimmy Bruno
archtop I would look into Bill Commins, Dale Unger and John Buscarino
> From: brez...@aol.com (BREZ9091)
> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz
> Date: 11 Jul 2001 04:01:51 GMT
> Subject: Re: Are pricey archtops worth the bread?
>
Jimmy Bruno
guitar players in my travels and there are those that like to analyze jazz
to the point were the playing becomes un-natural and stiff and those that
can play great music and still understand the theory. The theory is AFTER
the music
> From: "Feng-Yu Tsai" <fengtsai@nospam_yahoo.com>
> Organization: Time Warner Road Runner - Rochester NY
> Reply-To: "Feng-Yu Tsai" <fengtsai@nospam_yahoo.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz
> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 04:12:54 GMT
> Subject: Re: Are pricey archtops worth the bread?
>
>
Mark Kleinhaut
Jimmy Bruno <ji...@jimmybruno.com> wrote:
>wow! everyone is very serious here about music and guitar!!!!! The theory
>things are fine except most of it is so academic that it seems to me to
be
>hardly valid in a real playing situation. Music is sound, and is supposed
>to be fun... It's not rocket science. I say theorize a little less and
>enjoy making the music a little more
>
Amen... I had one student last semester that knew more theory than I do,
and kept going back to it every time he'd try to understand what I was doing,
but it never really worked. I finally said to him that all I'm doing is wiggling
my fingers and adjusting the wiggle as I go in response to what I hear, its
all in real time, its like that amusement park game where you try to shoot
the water gun into the hole 10 feet away to make the racehorse go up the
pole....you just start shooting and you adjust the stream as you go, you
NEVER take your finger off the trigger, and you NEVER take your eyes off
the hole. After that we talked about surfing:)
Joey Goldstein
Jimmy Bruno wrote:
>
> Som eof you have very fine sense of humor. Sometimes, that's the best thing
> on this newsgroup... my least favorite things to read are about theory
My least favorite things to read are about pricey archtops. <g>
--
Joey Goldstein
Guitarist/Jazz Recording Artist/Teacher
Home Page: http://www.joeygoldstein.com
Email: <joegold AT sympatico DOT ca>
Colin Cotter
> Jimmy Bruno wrote:
> >
> > Som eof you have very fine sense of humor. Sometimes, that's the best thing
> > on this newsgroup... my least favorite things to read are about theory
>
> My least favorite things to read are about pricey archtops. <g>
Gotcha! I was just waiting for Joey to bite the bait...
David C. Stephens
Dave
"Jimmy Bruno" <ji...@jimmybruno.com> wrote in message
news:B771BD73.293C%ji...@jimmybruno.com...
Paul Sanwald
> Well, I'm hardly a sufficiently good guitarist to make much of a
> dent in this conversation, but it does seem to me that the first thing
> any guitar player needs to know when soloing is what notes (and
> finger patterns) fit into the progression being played.
I would say that the first thing any guitarist would need to be able
to do is hear an idea and then play that idea on the guitar.
everything else is pretty much gravy.
--paul
Bob Russell
pcsa...@pobox.com wrote on 7/11/01 11:20 AM:
> I would say that the first thing any guitarist would need to be able
> to do is hear an idea and then play that idea on the guitar.
> everything else is pretty much gravy.
I would back you up all the way, with special emphasis on the "hear an idea"
part. If a person's not hearing something to play, I don't think it's going
to matter how much theory they know or how fast they can move their fingers.
-- Bob Russell
http://www.uncwil.edu/people/russellr
Bob Russell
nos...@nowhere.net wrote on 7/11/01 9:39 AM:
>
>
> Jimmy Bruno wrote:
>>
>> Som eof you have very fine sense of humor. Sometimes, that's the best thing
>> on this newsgroup... my least favorite things to read are about theory
>
> My least favorite things to read are about pricey archtops. <g>
But if you eliminate theory and pricey archtops, what's everyone going to
talk about? Oh, yeah - Clarus and Raezer's Edge! ;)
Max Leggett
>nos...@nowhere.net wrote on 7/11/01 9:39 AM:
>
>>
>>
>> Jimmy Bruno wrote:
>>>
>>> Som eof you have very fine sense of humor. Sometimes, that's the best thing
>>> on this newsgroup... my least favorite things to read are about theory
>>
>> My least favorite things to read are about pricey archtops. <g>
>
>But if you eliminate theory and pricey archtops, what's everyone going to
>talk about?
Britney.
Tom Walls
bobrus...@hotmail.com says...
interested in, and I don't like posts about theory unless it's something
I'm working on. And if we don't talk about either theory or gear, we can
talk about me -- but let's try to keep it positive, guys!
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
http://www.arts.cornell.edu/zeus/
Nick Carver
I put on BIAB and pick some standard. I let it play a bit and then, without
looking plop one of my left hand fingers down and, as Mark says, "start
wiggling" so it makes some sense. If the tempo is quick, I don't have
enough time to even figure out where I am, so I am absolutely forced to play
by ear. Frightening? Yes. Buy a real gas as well.
Nick
"Mark Kleinhaut" <markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3b4c5302$1...@spamkiller.newsgroups.com...
Bob Russell
at tw...@REMOVEcornell.edu wrote on 7/11/01 2:07 PM:
> Yeah, well I don't like posts about gear unless it's gear that I'm
> interested in, and I don't like posts about theory unless it's something
> I'm working on. And if we don't talk about either theory or gear, we can
> talk about me -- but let's try to keep it positive, guys!
LOL!
Bob Russell
wrote on 7/11/01 1:15 PM:
>> But if you eliminate theory and pricey archtops, what's everyone going to
>> talk about?
>
> Britney.
Sorry. I forgot.
Jimmy Bruno
> From: "Mark Kleinhaut" <markkl...@hotmail.com>
> Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 73,000+ UNCENSORED
> Newsgroups.
> Reply-To: "Mark Kleinhaut" <markkl...@hotmail.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz
> Date: 11 Jul 2001 08:22:10 -0500
> Subject: Re: Are pricey archtops worth the bread?
>
>
Jimmy Bruno
> From: Colin Cotter <colin....@ic.ac.uk>
> Organization: Imperial College, London, UK
> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz
> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:57:10 +0100
> Subject: Re: Are pricey archtops worth the bread?
>
Jimmy Bruno
> From: "David C. Stephens" <dcs...@swbell.net>
> Organization: SBC Internet Services
> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz
Jimmy Bruno
> From: Bob Russell <bobrus...@hotmail.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz
> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:34:21 -0400
> Subject: Re: Are pricey archtops worth the bread?
>
Jimmy Bruno
> From: "Nick Carver" <carver...@hotmail.com>
> Organization: ExecPC Internet - Milwaukee, WI
> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz
> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:30:41 -0500
> Subject: Re: Are pricey archtops worth the bread?
>
Mark Guest
"Max Leggett" <mlegget@no_bs.ca> wrote in message
news:3b4c899c...@news.sprint.ca...
And Kenny G.
--
Mark Guest
JazzerWB at JahWho dot com
Kyser
"Nick Carver" <carver...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3b4c9bef$0$12821$272e...@news.execpc.com...
Chris Johnson
If I had the money to buy this I wouldn't be publicizing this
so as to keep the bidding to a minimum.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1445824688
This is an archtop by Mark Campellone that's just like the
blue one he made for Scott Chinery.
Looks sweet to me! Maybe I'll talk to my bank....nah.
In time, I'll just build one if I really want it.
CJ
George4908
>
>This is an archtop by Mark Campellone that's just like the
>blue one he
Must be the lighting, or my computer screen, but that dang thing looks green to
me. But in a good way, sort of.
Chris Johnson
The finish is undoubtedly quite a bit more blue than it
looks since the finish spec is the same as the original,
I'm pretty sure.
CJ
awa...@nj.rr.com
can play that great violin and make it sound great. I don't care what your
instrument costs. I want to hear it played. Guitars are Boring. They're just
a means to an end. Sh-t carpenters probably talk about hammers. We talk
about guitars and gear cause we're all guitar players. But I do not think
the guitar need be made by a custom builder, there are lots of custom
guitars that are average and just average. They may play well but will not
be special. It depends on us, to make the music. Back in the day an old
bitty came back stage after J. Heifetz played a concert , the fan said,"
OH!!! Mr. Heifetz your Stradavarius sounded sooooooo beautiful." It was said
that Heifetz turned to his case picked up his Strad held it to his ear and
said," well my dear I don't Hear IT making any sound at all." as he turned
away. The instruments being made to day are some of the best that have ever
been made. The repair and regulation of the instrument has also developed to
a very high level. Players are better than ever, more is known then ever
before about playing guitar. Theres no lack of knowledge and skill.... BUT
... Magic is still in short supply... We need to make that happen. Cordially
AW
Chris Johnson
Although building guitars is a passion for me and will probably become
my livelihood if all goes as planned, anything I make is just going
to sit there until and unless it's played. A cheap guitar that's
being used to make music is probably of more real value than an
expensive custom made job that's sitting in a collector's air
conditioned bank vault while it appreciates in monetary value.
Of course, the best part is where a very well made guitar with
a great tone is being played by someone who knows how and loves
to do it. But it's fine if a total hack (player, that is) like
me is just fumbling at it and enjoying it anyway. The fact
that I can't play my way out of a doubled paper bag doesn't
lessen my enjoyment when I try anyway, and it certainly doesn't
lessen my enjoyment that I get from making guitars.
Person to person, it's all value judgements. Some people view
guitars as a way to make a living playing music and for others
they're works of art that can be appreciated without even playing
them. And everywhere in between. For me, I'm in an unusual
position because I'd like to own and play (probably poorly) some
of the best archtops ever made but I'm not going to for reasons
of cost. But I can try to make comparable guitars and if even get
close to the level of those best guitars, then I'll get more
satisfaction out of having done well than I would if I'd just
bought the best one. If I can't afford it, I'll just build it
instead! Cheaper and more fun! And who knows...I just might
do OK in the archtop business, too. Certainly I'll try.
CJ
Tom Lippincott
>>
>> Som eof you have very fine sense of humor. Sometimes, that's the best
>thing
>> on this newsgroup... my least favorite things to read are about theory
>
>My least favorite things to read are about pricey archtops. <g>
>
>--
>Joey Goldstein
me too
Tom Lippincott
Guitarist, Composer, Teacher
audio samples, articles, CD's at:
http://www.tomlippincott.com
thomas
> I do get the guitars for free. but I have a lot of experience playing hand
> made guitars. When I go to those shows every luthier is dying to have me
> play their instruments. and I can tell you based on the pricing of the
> guitars that I have played, you get what you pay for.
I don't disagree, but I also don't think it's quite that simple. SO
much of what you're paying for at the high end is purely
decoration--fancy woods, fancy decorative craftsmanship, etc. It's
great stuff and worth the bread to some folks, but it has next to
nothing to do with the guitar's utility as a musical instrument. I
don't think the $30,000 Buscarino sounds much better--if at all--than
his $8,000 model.
In general, I don't think that $6,000 custom guitars sound three times
better than a 50-year-old Epi that you can pick up for $2,000. Maybe a
few do, but in general, at the high end you are paying thousands and
thousands of dollars for very minute increases in sound quality. The
higher end you go, the more money you are paying for tinier increments
in quality.
> > Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz
> > Date: 10 Jul 2001 09:19:55 -0700
> > Subject: Re: Are pricey archtops worth the bread?
> >
> > jimwh...@aol.com (Jimwhoknows) wrote in message
> > news:<20010710001744...@ng-fl1.aol.com>...
> >> If you get what you pay for, then I'm thinking you got your benedetto guitars
> >> for free.
> >>
> >> Thank you, and good night.
> >
> > Hold on there.
> >
> > Now I don't know what kind of "discount" that JB gets on his
> > guitars, but even if he gets them for free, the price he
> > paid for them is the lifetime of hard work, blood, sweat,
> > and paying his dues to become the kind of musician that
> > a Bob Benedetto would choose as an endorser.
> >
> > I think that for most of us it would be easier to pay
> > full retail.
> >
> > Geoff...
Jimmy Bruno
very plain and simple. I only care about the sound and playabilty
Dave
>
> In general, I don't think that $6,000 custom guitars sound three times
> better than a 50-year-old Epi that you can pick up for $2,000. Maybe a
> few do, but in general, at the high end you are paying thousands and
> thousands of dollars for very minute increases in sound quality. The
> higher end you go, the more money you are paying for tinier increments
> in quality.
>
I don't agree. I've played a bunch of Epi's, and very, very few sound
comparable to a good modern archtop, or older acoustic Gibson (L5, L7)
when playing single note lines.
For chunking big band style, they do fine.
Dave
thomas
Do you think that modern custom archtops priced at $6,000 exceed the
nice old NY Epis by a factor of 300% to 600%? Because that's the price
ratio.
George4908
>nice old NY Epis by a factor of 300% to 600%? Because that's the price
>ratio.
Very often the price ratio is irrelevant. You play a guitar, it speaks to you,
you want it, period, doesn't matter what it costs relative to other guitars.
If you've got the money, you buy it. These are not wholly rational decisions,
or we'd all be playing perfectly decent mid-market guitars and amps.
Some people will never have a jones for an old Epi because their sights are set
elsewhere. Their loss, perhaps, but pointing out how much more economically
sensible the Epi may be won't make them want it.
Chris Johnson
comparable in price to a 50 year old top notch archtop
50 years ago when it was new.
Prices in terms of wage hours (how long it takes a person
to earn the money to buy it, assuming equivalent income
adjusted for cost of living increases; and similar
economic status such as upper middle class)
haven't changed all that much but I think that
a new custom made archtop is going to be a substantially
better guitar than the one that was made 50 years ago,
especially with the current crop of archtop luthiers.
Now, not then, is the golden age of the archtop from a
quality and performance perspective. The archtop
luthiers (the most experienced, anyway) that are making
guitars today are the best who ever lived. Jimmy D'Aquisto
eventually surpassed John D'Angelico, and Bob Benedetto
may have surpassed D'Aquisto. D'Aquisto's top students
are also making incredible instruments and the students
of THOSE students are turning out some amazing guitars as
well. There are other luthiers of similary notable abilities
that didn't come from the D'Angelico-D'Aquisto dynasty, too.
I'm quite sure that any modern archtop luthier with a respected name
can turn out an archtop that'll compare very well to any typical 50
year old Epiphone. Or quite a bit better.
I'm gearing up to start making archtops myself (I've actually
begun..on prototypes) and if I 'only' wanted to make archtops
equivalent to 50 year old Epis, I'd get NOWHERE. I expect
FAR more out of myself and so do my prospective customers.
CJ
Dave
Right, this says it well. I think, for single line playing, that
Epiphones don't give the desired sound. Yes, I know this is my
totally subjective viewpoint. So if that is what you want, you need
to go elsewhere, so it doesn't matter how cheap Epi's are.
I haven't spent the big bread on a pricey archtop, but I might,
someday. I bought an old L7 cutaway, that barks and sounds sweet, as
needed. Yes it cost more than an Epi. Less than any 'name' luthier
would sell a new guitar for. But I recognize that it has flaws. I
would almost certainly get a better, straighter neck on a custom
archtop. The action would probably be better, and stay better.
Dave
thomas
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1442230833
Nate Lamy
Epi's suck. It's the pre-WWII ones that sing.
BTW, Chris, am I to understand that you are going to be building
archtop guitars? Just wanted to make sure.
- Nate Lamy
Chris Johnson <cmjo...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message news:<3B4FB4FC...@cfl.rr.com>...
(snip)
> I'm quite sure that any modern archtop luthier with a respected name
> can turn out an archtop that'll compare very well to any typical 50
> year old Epiphone. Or quite a bit better.
> I'm gearing up to start making archtops myself (I've actually
> begun..on prototypes) and if I 'only' wanted to make archtops
> equivalent to 50 year old Epis, I'd get NOWHERE. I expect
> FAR more out of myself and so do my prospective customers.
> CJ
> > david...@intermec.com (Dave) wrote in message news:<23b1528b.01071...@posting.google.com>...
Chris Johnson
Nate Lamy wrote:
>
>
>
> BTW, Chris, am I to understand that you are going to be building
> archtop guitars? Just wanted to make sure.
>
> - Nate Lamy
>
>
Yes, that is certainly the plan. I hope to make it official
soon. As of right now, I'm working on my 18 inch archtop
prototype. When this one is complete I will generate
a 17 inch design and build that, or any custom design that is
requested. Creating the forms for a new body shape is really
very easy work so why not make whatever's requested?
I've accumulated all of the tools I need and have made most
of the jigs and fixtures that will make the job easier and faster,
and once my side wood arrives I can start making the body in the mold.
The prototype's top has been carved out already and the back
is ready to start carving as of now. I'm doing something
special with the neck design that I don't want to reveal
until I speak to a patent attorney...it's that good and that
original.
I might have this sucker together in less than a month.
Please feel free to email me directly and I'll put you on
the list of people who will get direct updates and photos
when the time comes.
CJ
pmfan57
Jimmy, you know Joe, what happened to his Benedetto? I like to see
him at the Benedetto players shows, but he can't show up with the old
Gibson (great as he sounds playing it).
Steve Grenadier
he has been trying to sell the guitar for quite some time (at a very high
price...). He appears to play his Gibson L4 (same size as an ES175, but
with a solid top, fancier appointments, and a pickup closer to the
fretboard).
Steve
thomas
> You guys are missing the boat here. Everyone knows that post-WWII
> Epi's suck. It's the pre-WWII ones that sing.
What accounts for the pre/post-war differences?
Chris Johnson
Gibson??
Not that I'm ragging on Gibson's quality, but as long as Epiphone
has been Gibson's budget line, they've been just that...a budget
line. Unfortunately, Gibson has never seemed to fully understand
the concept of a HIGH quality lower cost lineup. They dump the
quality along with the price. I wish they'd figure it out.
CJ
gladu hebert
Gibson until 1957. I have played a few old 45-early fifties at Gruhn
and the occasional guitar show they seem fine to me IMHO. I guess that
a case could be make for the superiority of pre war epi's because Mr
Epi passed away in 1943. After that Conn sorta took over until Gibson
bought the company with mixed results IMHO. The Mandolin brothers has
a very nice Emperor for sale
now from about 1945 If I had $4000 I would defintly check it out.
How ever they have a 00-OM Martin conversion for sale which makes me
sick. That is an archtop Martin from the 1930s that some @#$$%& cuts
the top off and makes the guitar into a flatop. I think changing an
old Martin from an archtop to a flat-top or classical to steel string
should be the considered the worst of all crimes.
{ If I were KING of the world I would have my praetorian
guard kill all persons associated with such conversions their familes
sold as slaves maybe burn their cities and of course their archtops
would be taken
in tribute oh well it is just another caffine trip }
If you want a sweet sounding archtop that is not too expensive the F
and C Martins are nice guitars esp for fingerstyle jazz(IMHO). They
are not real loud but they have sweet sound all their own. The R's are
great for country and folk Check out David Rawlings on Gillans Wlechs
Records
Gladu
Dick Schneiders
But that didn't happen until the 1950's.
The late 1940's Epi's are still very good guitars.
Dick Schneiders
Bob Russell
gheb...@yahoo.com wrote on 7/23/01 7:54 AM:
> I hope I am not splitting hairs here but Epiphone was not bought by
> Gibson until 1957.
If you'd been reading all the "chord" threads, you'd realize that splitting
hairs is not exactly frowned upon here... :)
-- Bob Russell
http://www.uncwil.edu/people/russellr
Jimmy Bruno
> From: Bob Russell <bobrus...@hotmail.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz
> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 08:33:31 -0400
> Subject: Re: Are pricey archtops worth the bread?
>
Max Leggett
>Gibson??
By the time Gibson bought Epiphone it was bankrupt. The family had
dispersed, one of them still in charge of Epiphone, another brother
making basses, a third making ukeleles. The original Epi died in the
40s, and, like many family businesses, the succession was anything but
smooth. A sister got ripped off for her shares in the company .... A
nasty end to a once great company. Gibson did the Epaminondas family a
favour by buying the forms and the name. Epiphone started having
quality problems due to material shortages in WWII, and they never
seemd to recover from it. After the war they started leaning more
toward laminated tops, in part because of a focus on electric
instruments. And Gibson did a smart move by buying the name and the
molds. It's a pity they turned it into a budget line, although I do
like my Epi JP.
awa...@nj.rr.com
instruments were spotty. I have noticed that after 52 the neck shapes got
very inconsistent. Some were what you would expect from a high quality
instrument and others were huge things that many players dislike. I've also
seen a number with the neck sort of tilted in relationship to the sound
board, so that the treble side tilts down. That can be from a bad
aftermarket neckset, but perhaps not.From my reading I sort of got the Idea
that the inconsistency came from the Conn employees basically assembling
instruments from parts. They were in Philly ? I think. Well any way as I
remember they were shipping things from the NY warehouse to Philly for
assembly. So that is a thing to look out for in anything from 52 till Gibson
took over the line. IMO the Epi line was trashed by gibson. The high end
pieces made by gibson with the Epi logo can be taken on an instrument by
instrument basis and some are good, but they ain't Epiphones. I have owned
and played many Epiphones, I love them. Their acoustic archtops had a
great sound thats all their own. All of the current product is just
pricepoint stuff. It functions and some of the models are used by lots of
touring acts as workhorse instruments. The thinline stuff has a nice crunchy
rhythm thing goin' and some of the late 80's Japan units were very nice if
you can find them. But if you want to see what Epiphone was all about play a
pre war small body masterbuilt Deluxe, they are often wonderful...AW
Robert Berger
Sometimes good things come from such experiments....
I have a Martin 1993 M-38. The M-38 was originally made from a converted
Martin "F'" Series archtop by Matt Umanov in NYC in the 1970s. Martin
liked the guitar's attributes so much that it was made into an official
model in 1977. Its one of the most balanced instruments that Martin ever
produced. I believe that they discontinued the model a few years ago.
:-)
Bob
Dave
> How ever they have a 00-OM Martin conversion for sale which makes me
> sick. That is an archtop Martin from the 1930s that some @#$$%& cuts
> the top off and makes the guitar into a flatop. I think changing an
> old Martin from an archtop to a flat-top or classical to steel string
> should be the considered the worst of all crimes.
Well, someone took the guitar and made it more valuable. Go figure.
Now, if you took an OM, and made it into an archtop, that would be a
crime in my book.
Have you ever played a good OM? They are wonderful, wonderful
fingerstyle guitars. I've played maybe one Martin archtop, and found
it way too quiet for playing swing. Maybe ok for parlor fingerstyle.
I think even an OK OM would sound louder and sweeter than a Martin
archtop. Why do you think the archtops cost so little? Because most
players don't want them. And why are they rare? Because most players
in the '30s didn't buy them. Not many were sold. Those players back
then were on to something, I think.
Dave
Chris Johnson
is NOT going to make it into an OM. Although I haven't
had the occasion to measure and compare the necks, I feel
pretty safe in guessing that the necks should be significantly
different.
Personally, I disagree with seriously modifying any guitar
like that even if it does end up 'better' according to some
people. If you want a flattop, buy a flattop, don't make
one out of an archtop.
CJ
Chris Johnson
Max Leggett wrote:
>
>...I do like my Epi JP.
Yes, they're pretty good, especially at the price.
There's one on consignment at the shop I work at and
it's been refretted, tweaked, and adjusted to playing
perfection. It couldn't be any nicer to play without
reshaping the neck, which is a bit too squarish in
profile for my tastes. But it's fine for some players,
too. I can't say I like the looks of the neck wood
(it looks like that cheap, utterly boring Chinese wood
used on so many instruments, possibly some form of maple)
and the finish is unfortunately polyester or urethane,
but beyond that, there's not much to criticize for a
guitar made with all laminated woods.
CJ