Getting to the next level
Russ Hanchin
far you have to go. San Francisco guitarist Davis Ramey, told me years
ago that playing guitar was a life long endevor ... that you can
always improve. So, my question is this. What do you all do when you
feel you've sort of 'leveled out' at your current playing ability?
What do you do to take it to the next level... kick it up a notch?
Pick (back) up on the transcribing thing? connect with a teacher who
can hopefully open a music door? (Re)hit the books?
Thanks,
Russ
Greg D
news:443ad2dc.03111...@posting.google.com:
Russ,
Speaking as a novice compared to most here...
I have noticed plateaus in my playing and then the breakthrough that
comes, often with no more effort n my part than just plugging along.
Recording myself and listening critically has always been a door-opener
for me, but nothing is as good as getting out there and playing.
For me, it's rock/blues right now, but even that helps me in my part-time
approach to jazz - hearing things I never heard before, being able to
aurally distinguish the direction of a progression, not being afraid to
let go as much as I used to.
There's nothing like gigging with folks as good or hopefully better than
you to raise your level of play. And the sweet part is that being in an
ensemble, my level of play improves more on an upward incline than the
staircasing plateaus like I used to. That is, the improvement is less
noticeable, but happens in a more continuous fashion so that when you or
osmeone else realizes it, it seems even more profound.
GReg
Pt
I then go back to the guitar with a new attitude.
Pt
Pt
>Speaking as a novice compared to most here...
>
>I have noticed plateaus in my playing and then the breakthrough that
>comes, often with no more effort n my part than just plugging along.
>Recording myself and listening critically has always been a door-opener
>for me, but nothing is as good as getting out there and playing.
>
>For me, it's rock/blues right now, but even that helps me in my part-time
>approach to jazz - hearing things I never heard before, being able to
>aurally distinguish the direction of a progression, not being afraid to
>let go as much as I used to.
>
>There's nothing like gigging with folks as good or hopefully better than
>you to raise your level of play. And the sweet part is that being in an
>ensemble, my level of play improves more on an upward incline than the
>staircasing plateaus like I used to. That is, the improvement is less
>noticeable, but happens in a more continuous fashion so that when you or
>osmeone else realizes it, it seems even more profound.
>
>GReg
There is much to what you said Greg.
If someone sits at home and tries to learn to play they will hit a
dead end quickly.
Playing with others on stage has several rewards.
First you work as a group to create good music.
You realize that you can't do it alone.
Then you see people dancing to your music.
You notice people bouncing their heads to your music and others
singing along.
All of these things are greatly rewarding and the fact that people
actually like your music makes you play better and better.
Question for Greg...
Are you playing the same set list that you used when you started
gigging?
Do you add occasional new songs?
Or do you just dump the old songs and get all new songs?
Pt
Greg D
news:halgrvs4ke4tp1luv...@4ax.com:
Agreed 100%!
>
> Question for Greg...
>
> Are you playing the same set list that you used when you started
> gigging?
E have many of the same songs, but now have about 50 to draw form as
opposed to just 30.
>
> Do you add occasional new songs?
Yes, but I have estimated that it takes us 8 weeks to go from concept to
performance with a new tune. That is, we can have easily 2 new tunes down
for a practice the following week, but mostly there are weeks, if not
months between practices depending on how heavily we gig. And then there
are family deaths, sickness, weddings, vacations, etc - all of which add
up to 2 months or more to bring one new tune on-board.
>
> Or do you just dump the old songs and get all new songs?
Now, we cycle them out one by one. We call it "banking" a tune. We'll
pull it out every couple of months and dust it off or when we get a
request.
We are also playing 3 sets for any gig - 3 or 4 hours. On a 4 hour gig,
we play up to 10 songs per each of three sets; sometimes less, depending
on how much bantering back and forth the soingers are doing with the
audience. On a 3 hour gig, we get to no more than 7 or 8 songs/set.
I now improvise my solos about 50% of the time. I'm getting better at it,
but still have along way to go.
As I said in the past, I have finally reached my goal of over 25 years
ago - become a mediocre bar room player. Had I not taken that nearly 20
year hiatus, I would have been mediocre sooner :)-
Greg
>
> Pt
>
Unknown
wrote:
Go listen to a master player who lives near you. Listen and absorb.
Tim
http://timberens.com
A Website for Guitarists
Learn something...Have some fun
timb at erinet dot com
kuboken
The most frequent answer I get (or have heard others get) for this
question from great players is to increase the level of the people you
play with. Some say that is the only way to take the level of your
playing up. Always pushing to play with people better than you.
One thing I heard a legendary player say was a trap a lot of people
fall into is that they start out playing with their friends and keep
playing with their friends. Even when they get better than their
friends and should start hiring better players, they stick to their
'buddies' because they will get upset if you hired a name player for
your gig.
Apparently this is a trap that a lot of people fall into and their
musical development stops or slows dramatically as a result...
Ken
bob r
kubo...@yahoo.com wrote on 11/17/03 2:40 PM:
> One thing I heard a legendary player say was a trap a lot of people
> fall into is that they start out playing with their friends and keep
> playing with their friends. Even when they get better than their
> friends and should start hiring better players, they stick to their
> 'buddies' because they will get upset if you hired a name player for
> your gig.
Miles Davis, on firing his nephew:
"Music ain't got friends like that."
--
Bob Russell
http://www.bobrussellguitar.com
CD available: http://www.cdbaby.com/bobrussell
Keith Freeman
-Keith
Music, tips, Portable Changes at
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FreeKeithMan
icarusi
news:Xns94365078A75...@68.1.17.6...
> We are also playing 3 sets for any gig - 3 or 4 hours. On a 4 hour gig,
> we play up to 10 songs per each of three sets; sometimes less, depending
> on how much bantering back and forth the soingers are doing with the
> audience. On a 3 hour gig, we get to no more than 7 or 8 songs/set.
You're good value! We used to do 90 minutes to 2 hours when we went
commercial (previously in an open ended hobby jam band style, and could have
stretched to 3-4 hours with breaks). The most often was 90 minutes in 2x45
minute spots or 3x30 minutes (which I didn't like as getting inspired for
the third set, late, was a stretch).
Icarusi
--
remove the 00 to reply
redsox989
"Russ Hanchin" <rhan...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:443ad2dc.03111...@posting.google.com...
Well I don't think my playing has improved as much as a couple of months
ago, so I'm gonna start working The Advancing Guitarist. I've heard really
good things about it. I'm probably going to get the Jazz Theory book by Mark
Levine and start that too.
Geordie F.O. Kelly
reason, this helps me a lot. I discovered this very recently because I have
always been a practice fiend, but stepping away really helps me feel
refreshed. When I come back, I always seem to move another step fwd.
--
Geordie F.O. Kelly
Guitarist/Jazz Improvisation Instructor
Armed Forces School of Music
http://heritageguitar.com/artists/
"Russ Hanchin" <rhan...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:443ad2dc.03111...@posting.google.com...
Bob Agnew
random selection. That usually does it for me.
"Russ Hanchin" <rhan...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:443ad2dc.03111...@posting.google.com...
hans van leeuwen
Take this advice from an old goat. The only way to improve is getting
inspired
by a better player (not necessarily a guitarist), then practice, DON'T
COPY, stay yourself, play the guitar as if you are playing with a toy,
DON'T FORCE, develop new ideas, incorporate them in your solo's by
repeating them over and over. Then after xxx months: try out your
soloing with a rhythm section (or a play along) and evaluate your
progress. Most of the times you will be disapointed and you'll have to
go back to study. Don't expect a radical change within a short span of
time! If you are a bopper (but this maybe a less appropriate advice
for people of nervous disposition and a horror to most teachers):
study up-tempo's as much as you can.
cheers,
Hans http://members.chello.nl/h.leeuwen6/IrishTune.htm
David Kotschessa
I know I'm replying to this late here, but I wanted to get this in.
As far as jazz goes right now, I am at that point, and the thing I
need to do is the thing that I'm exactly not doing, which is to go out
and play with other people.
It's kind of an ego thing. I am a big fish in my own pond right now.
I'm the best player in my house, and in my room where I practice. As
soon as I go "out there," I am going to be a smaller fish again.
The other problem is that I find the whole damn process to be too much
like dating. Find some person, ask if they will play with you, get
their phone number, your place or mine? ugh.. I can't even do that
with women, much less with men or women musicians, much much less with
men or women musicians who may be ready to show me how truly pathetic
I am.
Case in point, I managed to get a number of a guy awhile ago that
plays flute, piccolo, sax... I have some really cool ideas for him and
I do do with me playing nylon string, playing really modal type
stuff... Me doing semi-chord melodies, then backing him up... Lots of
ideas. That was about a month ago and I haven't called yet. "Um, hi,
this is Dave, we met at 23rd street awhile ago..." I already feel like
Kevin from the wonder years.
But to get back on topic, that's the next level. And I'm probably not
going to get anywhere until I get over it.
-D
tomw
dkots...@yahoo.com says...
> But to get back on topic, that's the next level. And I'm probably not
> going to get anywhere until I get over it.
>
>
> -D
>
Go ahead and do it. Even I do it, and I have no self-esteem.
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
http://www.arts.cornell.edu/zeus/
florian schmidt
>> But to get back on topic, that's the next level. And I'm probably not
>> going to get anywhere until I get over it.
> Go ahead and do it. Even I do it, and I have no self-esteem.
I'm too shy to date women [they have to date _me_ if they want me.
doesn't happen too often though :(], and have no self esteem in this
regard whatsoever. But i have no problems talking people into making music
with me [they don't bite always, but that's ok].
Now with women it really should be the same but it isn't the same ;)
@Russ: Get out there and do ya thang! I know though how hard it can be if
you are lacking self esteem in that one area. Get over it and burn your
hands!
Flo
--
music: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/florianschmidt.htm
florian schmidt
> @Russ: Get out there and do ya thang! I know though how hard it can be if
> you are lacking self esteem in that one area. Get over it and burn your
> hands!
This was directed at David of course, not Russ. Damn i should quit posting
altogether ;)
Marc Sabatella
I try every time I reach a plateau. I can say that in general, I will
often first just enjoy being at the new plateau for a while - it's nice
to feel in control at a higher level than the last time I felt I had
reached a plateau. Then, after a few weeks, maybe months, of this, I
start to notice something else that needs work. And I set to work on
that. Normally, I am able to figure out for myself how to get where I
want and just start practicing it. Sometimes, if I don't feel I know
how to get there, I decide to read a book, listen to certain CD's, or
take more lessons. But I'm in no hurry. It might take a couple of
years of work on that skill before I hit my next plateau, and then I
might coast there another couple of months.
--------------
Marc Sabatella
ma...@outsideshore.com
The Outside Shore
Music, art, & educational materials:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
Gerry
<ma...@outsideshore.com> wrote:
> Sometimes, if I don't feel I know how to get there, I decide to read
> a book, listen to certain CD's, or take more lessons. But I'm in no
> hurry. It might take a couple of years of work on that skill before
> I hit my next plateau, and then I might coast there another couple of
> months.
Once again you seem to speak for me. I do the things you listed all
the time anyway, of course, but I start really focusing on them at
certain points, looking for direction. Mostly I'm digging around
trying to find something worth investigating or playing with to fill
the idle time. And I find it it turns I found a the big fucking "key",
the rosetta stone! The Answer! And then later, it turns out to be one
of many keys on the ring. Or irrelevant.
--
///--- Vote for the richest Republican. He understand the common man.
David Kotschessa
> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:19:44 +0100, florian schmidt wrote:
>
> > @Russ: Get out there and do ya thang! I know though how hard it can be if
> > you are lacking self esteem in that one area. Get over it and burn your
> > hands!
>
> This was directed at David of course, not Russ. Damn i should quit posting
> altogether ;)
>
> Flo
Oh, don't do that! The advice was genuine, the name is unimportant.
:)
I keep _starting_ to get out there... I'll go to a jam session or
something, then think "ok, i'm out here," then things will go either
good, bad, or nothing will happen (as in I won't get a chance to
play), and then the following week I think "bah..I got out alst week."
I really need to be more consistent and become a 'fixture' in the
music scene. That's my prroblem. The weeks go by so amazingly fast
and I realize it's been 2 months since I played out anywhere...