Jazz Composing / Arranging books guides FAQs etc
John Powell
thru guitar improvisation, I'd like to start to arrange some numbers
for the band, and small ensembles.
Can anyone recommend books, guides, or web resources to help me?
I've a little experience in conventional classical choral BATS type
arrangements, but I need to know how simple things like what are the
ranges of different instruments, how to write non-concert pitch parts,
how to give, for instance, a saxophonist a part that he *enjoys*
playing, and an arrangement that swings etc
I've lots of fragmented experience, I'd like a book that assumes a
little knowledge, then gives me the right pointers.
Any recommendations?
thanks
John
Bill Casady
Terrific stuff. Have fun.
Regards,
Bill C.
Willie K.Yee, M.D.
>
>Can anyone recommend books, guides, or web resources to help me?
>
Composing for the Jazz Orchestra, William Russo is a standard. He has
some non-standard ideas about orchestration, but he covers the basics.
Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://www.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org
Joey Goldstein
The Professional Arranger Composer by Russel Garcia
Inside The Score by Bob Brookmeyer (I think)
--
Joey Goldstein
Guitarist/Jazz Recording Artist/Teacher
Home Page: http://www.joeygoldstein.com
Email: <joegold AT sympatico DOT ca>
Nazodesu
<nos...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> Modern Arranging Technique by gordon Delamont
> The Professional Arranger Composer by Russel Garcia
> Inside The Score by Bob Brookmeyer (I think)
I figure we've GOT be about the same age, Joey. The first two above
were my stock in trade for a long time. Add the Russo, David Baker,
Dick Grove, Don Sebesky and everything else you can get your hands on
and I think that is the base recommendation: read everything; discard
what doesn't seem useful.
Joey Goldstein
Nazodesu wrote:
>
> In article <3C710DE5...@nowhere.net>, Joey Goldstein
> <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
> > Modern Arranging Technique by gordon Delamont
> > The Professional Arranger Composer by Russel Garcia
> > Inside The Score by Bob Brookmeyer (I think)
>
> I figure we've GOT be about the same age, Joey.
I'm just a little younger there old timer. I'm 48.
> The first two above
> were my stock in trade for a long time. Add the Russo, David Baker,
> Dick Grove, Don Sebesky and everything else you can get your hands on
> and I think that is the base recommendation: read everything; discard
> what doesn't seem useful.
--
Mitch Barron
> Modern Arranging Technique by gordon Delamont
> The Professional Arranger Composer by Russel Garcia
> Inside The Score by Bob Brookmeyer (I think)
LAZZERINI
Straightened me out on a lot of those "simple" things.
Dick Grove - Arranging Concepts
Covers those basics and a lot more.
I found it well-written and reasonably easy to make sense of. Challenging,
rich, and very very worthwhile. Each time I have worked through it, I have
learned more. Lots of useful tools and concepts.
As a continuing student on the life-time Lazzerini teach-yourself-arranging
course, I have squeezed a lot of juice out of these two books. They might
suit you, too. But I heartily endorse Nazodesu's encouragement for you to
read "everything else you can get your hands on... read everything; discard
what doesn't seem useful".
But...
Writing parts that instrumentalists enjoy playing?
Writing an arrangement that swings?
For me, these bits don't fall anywhere near the category of "simple".
Here are three suggestions:
Listen to what moves you, personally. Try to take it apart and figure out
how it works.
Sit inside different sections if you get a chance. Don't bother with your
guitar. Just follow the parts they are reading and pay attention to how they
deal with the process. Listen. Any band will do. Doesn't have to be the one
you play with.
Sing through all of your parts before you "fix" 'em on paper. If you have
trouble singing it, they will have trouble playing it. If it works, you will
know immediately.
LAZZ
Nazodesu
<la...@telus.net> wrote:
> But...
> Writing parts that instrumentalists enjoy playing?
> Writing an arrangement that swings?
> For me, these bits don't fall anywhere near the category of "simple".
>
> Here are three suggestions:
> Listen to what moves you, personally. Try to take it apart and figure out
> how it works.
>
> Sit inside different sections if you get a chance. Don't bother with your
> guitar. Just follow the parts they are reading and pay attention to how they
> deal with the process. Listen. Any band will do. Doesn't have to be the one
> you play with.
>
> Sing through all of your parts before you "fix" 'em on paper. If you have
> trouble singing it, they will have trouble playing it. If it works, you will
> know immediately.
All excellent suggestions. I should point out of course that you can
read all this stuff and make a lot of assumptions, memorize a lot of
rules, all of it useful and helpful in cutting down on future labor and
head-scatching.
But it's very important that you write things *to be played* by other
folks. By anyone anwhere. I wrote some meticulous charts in the 70's
when I was in a horn band and man did those guys carve me a new one! I
could have written forever and not heard their specific and valid
complaints; about laying out a page, notating rhythms for ease of
writing not for so-called "accuracy". Writing the note heads LARGE and
EXACTLY. Writing for a horn's specific tension of tessitura rather
than checking to find if it's in the "playable range". And on and on
and on. Particularly when every complex thing I wrote, generally,
sucked, and every simple and direct thing soared. Is started writing
simple things that were more active, rather than more complex.
It's nice to know what the real world actually sounds like.
thomas
These, Nelson Riddle's book, and all the others mentioned are worth
reading. If I had to pick one, it would be the Dick Grove because he
is the most nuts and bolts, practice-oriented guy. I may be biased
because I studied with him and I learned so much more from him
that's not in the book. Still, I think Dick's is the one book I
would give a beginner if I had to pick just one.
Really all you need is a transposition table. The rest is just
ears, but there are practical concerns. Like, don't wear out the
lips on the brass players. Give detailed phrasing marks on any
line played by more than one instrument at a time. Horn players
need a lot of hand-holding in that regard or the sections sound
ragged. OTOH, don't write in too much detail for rhythm section
players. Give them basic rhythms, chord changes, and necessary punches,
and then let them go to town on their own.
I would suggest that you forget all that chorale stuff you learned--
for the time being, anyway--not getting too fancy with trick harmonies
and voice-leadings until after you've learned to write a convincing
chart using unisons and simple block voicings. Once you can do that
then you can bring in the chorales and the tricky stuff.
Nazodesu
<tomb...@jhu.edu> wrote:
> > > Modern Arranging Technique by gordon Delamont
> > > The Professional Arranger Composer by Russel Garcia
> > > Inside The Score by Bob Brookmeyer (I think)
> >
> > I figure we've GOT be about the same age, Joey. The first two above
> > were my stock in trade for a long time. Add the Russo, David Baker,
> > Dick Grove, Don Sebesky and everything else you can get your hands on
> > and I think that is the base recommendation: read everything; discard
> > what doesn't seem useful.
>
> These, Nelson Riddle's book, and all the others mentioned are worth
> reading. If I had to pick one, it would be the Dick Grove because he
> is the most nuts and bolts, practice-oriented guy. I may be biased
> because I studied with him and I learned so much more from him
> that's not in the book. Still, I think Dick's is the one book I
> would give a beginner if I had to pick just one.
I would not recommend the Grove book first. I'd recommend it last! I
read all those books, studied over half of them diligently and I think
only Delamont, Russo, and Arranging Concepts remains on my shelf. It's
the best reference I think, not just from content but also from ease of
access.
I guess my definitive, if you don't have 20 years, approach would be
- Delamont - Easy to get started, ideas are big and direct
- Russo - Very dense, myriad options are made knowable
- Grove - Definitive reference and excellent "refresher course" on
specifics.
So Grove might be the best all around single volume--but I'd recommend
it last!
> Really all you need is a transposition table. The rest is just
> ears, but there are practical concerns. Like, don't wear out the
> lips on the brass players. Give detailed phrasing marks on any
> line played by more than one instrument at a time. Horn players
> need a lot of hand-holding in that regard or the sections sound
> ragged. OTOH, don't write in too much detail for rhythm section
> players. Give them basic rhythms, chord changes, and necessary punches,
> and then let them go to town on their own.
More than anything else just GIVE them something. So much of the time
learner's are reluctant to put their music on a stand and get it
knocked off. Like Tennessee Wiliams said, "Don't write a play, write
plays!"
> I would suggest that you forget all that chorale stuff you learned--
> for the time being, anyway--not getting too fancy with trick harmonies
> and voice-leadings until after you've learned to write a convincing
> chart using unisons and simple block voicings. Once you can do that
> then you can bring in the chorales and the tricky stuff.
Two votes for that.
Nazodesu
There aren't any. In the year of our Lord 2002, all orchestration
books still suck. They use in 2002 what they did in 1970. Everybody's
happy. Figure it out yourself. Sheesh.
Oh and read and memorize this, save yourself the headaches:
The Art of Music Copying by Roemer.
It's a primer on one must communicate as a composer.
John Powell
> In article <x4ec8.4377$Bw4.2...@news1.telusplanet.net>, LAZZERINI
> <la...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > But...
> > Writing parts that instrumentalists enjoy playing?
> > Writing an arrangement that swings?
> > For me, these bits don't fall anywhere near the category of "simple".
> >
Thanks for everyones suggestions -
It seems, as always that the main skill is listening to the music -
the music in my head, coming out of my fingers into the guitar, my
bandmember colleagues, CDs, performances etc.....
I'm actually really excited that I've discovered this new offshoot of
the Jazz "journey" I'm taking.
John
I'll let you know what transpires...
Patrick L.
John Powell <jpo...@ecclesall.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d8bd896a.02021...@posting.google.com...
The book by Russ Garcia, as old fashioned as it is, the principles
are solid. It also helps tremendously to pick up some piano.
Patrick L.
Michael Pettersen
but I assume it would be great considering Nestico's arranging skills.