Why buy an Eastman instead of a Heritage?
gooeyboy
why buy an Eastman instead of a Heritage?
The Heritage is American made for the same or less money.
I've played Eastman and some of them are ok
but some of them are crude.
I have little to no complaints with Heritage
and if you can find one second hand it's usually at a good price.
Call me old fashioned bit I just don't get it.
Congratulations to everyone who has bought an Eastman and loves it
but before you plunk down your cold hard earned,
take a spin through Kalamazoo.
A tear coming down my cheek like the Indian in that stupid commercial
gooeyboy
Mondoslug1
I liked the few Eastmans I played over the few Herirtages I played. They had
more of the pure "archtop" vibe to me - whatever that means. The eagle thingie
Heritages look nice tho.
Alan
which is why I went with the Eastman. I bought a Heritage Super Eagle
from a well-respected dealer and returned it within days due to one of
the worst necks I had ever seen. It turned me off so much I didn't
want to try another. Is that fair? No, it isn't, but it was a negative
enough experience to turn me off for a long time.
Plus, frankly, I love the way the Eastman looks-something Heritage
can't match in my opinion. However, I don't doubt Heritage makes some
great guitars. Joe Finn, a guy I respect like few other on this group,
swears by his.
alan
GregD/OASYSCO
@h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com:
> Appreciate your point, gb, but my experience was exactly the opposite
> which is why I went with the Eastman. I bought a Heritage Super Eagle
> from a well-respected dealer and returned it within days due to one of
> the worst necks I had ever seen. It turned me off so much I didn't
> want to try another. Is that fair? No, it isn't, but it was a negative
> enough experience to turn me off for a long time.
Sorry to hear that, but I agree --- we just don't have time to screw
around trying to let maker prove themselves. You get a lemon from a
respected dealer, you write them off and never deal with the company
again. Either the dealer was wrong to send you such a guitar or the
maker simply turns out so many liek that that the dealer *had* to send
you one. In any case, it's a very bad reflection on the maker.
Of course, Heritage and stories of bad necks are legendary and is one
reason I've bought around them for years. Fair or not, I just don't have
time anymore for dealing with lemons.
That said, I'd buy one *if* I was 100% sure it was cherry *and* I'd look
at a Heritage before I looked at an Eastman only to "keep it in the
family".
Greg
Mark Guest
--
Mark Guest
Mark at MarkGuest.net
www.MarkGuest.net
"gooeyboy" <gooe...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:r9T6d.11044$Xd2.10932@trndny01...
Steve
My standard H-575 is flawless, my standard Eagle "second" was also a good
guitar for the money.
That said, if I were looking for a more acoustically responsive archtop in
the D'Angelico/D'aquisto style for $2200, or an L-4 acoustic for $1600, the
Eastman Strings versions I've seen are winners.
What I don't like about them is the separate fingerboard extension, where
the Heritage is one piece neck
-SteveYetter-
Michael Ellenberger
Mark Guest wrote:
> The headstock design (shudder).
>
Mark, using the word 'design' in the same sentence with Heritage
headstock is a stretch;-)
Mike
--
Mike Ellenberger
Listen to some soundclips at
http://home.att.net/~grumpmeister/MikesJazzPage.html
http://www.soundclick.com/traveler
Rick R.
are in Michigan I guess..
"Mark Guest" <ja...@REMOVETHISMarkGuest.net> wrote in message
news:PbU6d.291022$Fg5.96108@attbi_s53...
Mark Guest
> Mark, using the word 'design' in the same sentence with Heritage
> headstock is a stretch;-)
>
> Mike
Yeah. What were they (not) thinking?
Joe Finn
> "Alan" <ad...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > Appreciate your point, gb, but my experience was exactly the opposite
> > which is why I went with the Eastman. I bought a Heritage Super Eagle
> > from a well-respected dealer and returned it within days due to one of
> > the worst necks I had ever seen. It turned me off so much I didn't
> > want to try another. Is that fair? No, it isn't, but it was a negative
> > enough experience to turn me off for a long time.
This sort of comment always seems a little odd to me. Having played all
sorts of guitars over the course of many years, I can tell you that they
*all* need set ups, fret dressing, and tweaking. And because every player is
different we all want our guitars set up to our personal specifications. I
could take a guitar that is set up the way you like it and it might not be
exactly the way I like it. This wouldn't mean the guitar had a bad neck.
A new guitar is especially suspect because the neck alignment takes time to
settle in. This gradually stabilizes as the instrument is "played in" during
the first year or so.
There is also a subjective element to be considered. The way a guitar feels
to player is a personal thing. It's hard to put into words but I don't think
I would conclude that any given [premium quality] instrument had a "bad
neck" after a few days. It takes a fair period of time to become accustomed
to the feeling of a new guitar.
> > Plus, frankly, I love the way the Eastman looks-something Heritage
> > can't match in my opinion. However, I don't doubt Heritage makes some
> > great guitars. Joe Finn, a guy I respect like few other on this
> > group, swears by his.
> >
> > alan
The way a guitar looks is pretty far down my list of priorities. Sound and
playability are the top considerations. The Heritage is actually a very
impressive guitar to look at. I don't think I have ever performed on a
regular basis with a guitar that has gotten noticed more and has inspired
more audience comments than my blonde Heritage Golden Eagle.
I don't have that guitar anymore. I'm no longer associated with Heritage
guitars but I can't say anything bad about them. In their price range they
are unsurpassed.
The guys at Heritage won't be around forever, either. As they move into
retirement things will undoubtedly change. The craftsmanship and experience
they build into those guitars is legendary. They are making modern classics
at bargain prices. ....joe
--
Visit me on the web www.joefinn.net
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
Joe Finn
>
> Of course, Heritage and stories of bad necks are legendary
Nonsense. This is one of the most overplayed rumors in the business.
......joe
GregD/OASYSCO
> "GregD/OASYSCO" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote
>>
>> Of course, Heritage and stories of bad necks are legendary
>
> Nonsense. This is one of the most overplayed rumors in the business.
Maybe, but that's the perception. Likewise, Gibson's inattention to detail
even on expensive guitars should be even a larger rumor and affect sales,
but it's not and it doesn't. So why does the Heritage "rumor" live on?
Because of posts like the one I responded to: "bought from a well-known
dealer... worst neck I've ever seen". Maybe the guy's lying as he would
have to be for this just to be another rumor, but I've seen too many posts
from first-hand buyers and 2 folks who I know personally to shrug off that
supposed "rumor".
Maybe the plinking thing will help as I've not seen the frequency of bad
posts regarding Heritage that I used to see in years past, but I think
that's as much a part of the competition that US makers now see from abroad
--- Eastman, D'Aqusito, D'Angelico, Hofner and others; perhaps Heritages
aren't selling like they used to?
I'd buy a Heritage before a higher dollar offshore brand, but I'd need
certain guarantees as to the integrity of the neck.
Greg
> ......joe
Alan
"This sort of comment always seems a little odd to me. Having played
all
sorts of guitars over the course of many years, I can tell you that
they
*all* need set ups, fret dressing, and tweaking. And because every
player is
different we all want our guitars set up to our personal
specifications. I
could take a guitar that is set up the way you like it and it might not
be
exactly the way I like it. This wouldn't mean the guitar had a bad
neck."
Where the disconnect comes for me is from the vastly different
perspectives we have. You are a full time player/teacher/performer and
I'm a half-assed amateur with a demanding day job leaving much less
time than ideal for playing. I DO want things to be as close to right
as possible the first time. The place I bought the Heritage told me
exactly what Jeff Hale told me, "the guitar will get a professional set
up..." Well, Jeff came through, the other person didn't. That means a
lot to me. And, besides, I admitted it wasn't fair to judge all
Heritage guitars by that one experience.
But that headstock. Geez.
alan
thom_j
> exactly...who puts a snow shovel on the end of a guitar neck? Well, they
> are in Michigan I guess..
Jack Zucker
Where'd you buy your Heritage from? When Heritage offered me an
endorsement, I went down to the local Heritage dealer to try out a few
guitars. Mind you, I informed them ahead of time that I was considering an
endorsement offer from Heritage and that I would be buying straight from
Heritage and not through the store. I also told them I'd understand if
they'd prefer I not waste their time. After checking with management, I was
told it was ok to come down and try them. However, when I got there, they
treated me like a leper. I asked them a few questions and they couldn't take
the time to answer even when I was trying a few non Heritage pieces they had
in stock. I left the store in disgust. When folks chastise me for buying
online instead of supporting the mom and pop shops, I think about these
types of experiences.
Jaz
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing "Sheets of Sound for Guitar"
Check it out at: www.sheetsofsound.net
"Alan" <ad...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1096558750.1...@k17g2000odb.googlegroups.com...
CK
> "Alan" <ad...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1096549095.144061.115450
> @h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Appreciate your point, gb, but my experience was exactly the opposite
> > which is why I went with the Eastman. I bought a Heritage Super Eagle
> > from a well-respected dealer and returned it within days due to one of
> > the worst necks I had ever seen. It turned me off so much I didn't
> > want to try another. Is that fair? No, it isn't, but it was a negative
> > enough experience to turn me off for a long time.
>
> Sorry to hear that, but I agree --- we just don't have time to screw
> around trying to let maker prove themselves. You get a lemon from a
> respected dealer, you write them off and never deal with the company
> again. Either the dealer was wrong to send you such a guitar or the
> maker simply turns out so many liek that that the dealer *had* to send
> you one. In any case, it's a very bad reflection on the maker.
>
> Of course, Heritage and stories of bad necks are legendary and is one
> reason I've bought around them for years. Fair or not, I just don't have
> time anymore for dealing with lemons.
>
> That said, I'd buy one *if* I was 100% sure it was cherry *and* I'd look
> at a Heritage before I looked at an Eastman only to "keep it in the
> family".
I think this used to be the motto of the KKK. Good to know that racism
still thrives in this country.
Mondoslug1
>Alan,
>
>Where'd you buy your Heritage from? When Heritage offered me an
>endorsement, I went down to the local Heritage dealer to try out a few
>guitars. Mind you, I informed them ahead of time that I was considering an
>endorsement offer from Heritage and that I would be buying straight from
I've had a few endorsements where I went to the local "mom & pop" store to try
their stuff out first - none of them like that a whole lot. More than one
company though had a deal where I could buy the actual instrument I played from
that store for 10 percent above the endorsement price - which is kind of fair
actually I think.
GregD/OASYSCO
news:7ded4b9f.0409...@posting.google.com:
Racism? WTF??? What *planet* are you from? No, don't tell me...
Berkeley, CA?
Greg
Alan
Paul Sanwald
this not the case?
Mondoslug1
>I always thought that you get stuff free when you're an endorser. is
>this not the case?
This is absolutely not the case. Depends on the company & how high profile the
endorser is really. Some stuff you can get free but most stuff - especially the
really good stuff is some kind of cost or near cost deal. It just depends
really...if you're all over TV that won't hurt.
Mondoslug1
Just want to say the above & below is strictly from my own experiences YMMV.
If you get something for free you pretty much at least IMO should be playing
that when on some high profile thing - if it's cost I don't think the company's
get as tweaked about it if you play something else on a TV show or whatever.
It's like they sold it to store....they got paid.
Max Leggett
wrote:
I recall reading an article in, I think GP, about some fairly major
touring band [Pete and the Pukes or something, several CDs, national
tours] that endorsed D'Addario strings. No free strings. I think
D'Addario gave them what should be enough for a tour at cost+10%. The
only other advantage was that if they were desperate for strings
somewhere a D'Addario rep might be able to dig some up quickly.
D'Addario used to provide free strings, but they had a major
credibility problem when Doug and the Doofoids, or whoever, suddenly
changed over to, or from, Ernie Ball just because of cheaper strings.
So manufacturers insist that you use the strings, or guitars, or
DeathMetalFlange pedals. In return they help with tour advertising and
stuff. I think Jimmy Bruno gets his guitars free, and likely Metheney
and Benson & Co., but they're very much the exception. Personally, I
endorse Heritage, D'Angelico, and Ibanez guitars, although none of the
manufacturers know it or could care less. :-)
GregD/OASYSCO
> none of the manufacturers know it or could care less. :-)
That's funny! I, too, am an endorser then!
Greg
Mondoslug1
>and Benson & Co., but they're very much the exception.
yeah well sure, anyone studly like that especially with their own model geetar.
You could probably tell 'em you're the top poster on RMMGJ and score an "artist
price" deal from someone somewhere
thom_j
Me 3! and proud of it! 8^)~~'..
woolworth's roy roger guitar endorser tee'..
thomas
>
> What I don't like about them is the separate fingerboard extension, where
> the Heritage is one piece neck
I thought that Eastman made the fretboard both ways, with and
without the suspension?
Comparing the two companies in general, Heritage guitars are
kind of ugly; Eastman's are very good-looking. Beyond that,
I compare piece by piece, not company by company.
The "buy American" trope is immoral. Chinese luthiers need
to eat just as much as American luthiers. I refuse to value
one human life more than another on the basis of nationality.
God will get you for that.
Max Leggett
wrote:
>> I think Jimmy Bruno gets his guitars free, and likely Metheney
>>and Benson & Co., but they're very much the exception.
>
>yeah well sure, anyone studly like that especially with their own model geetar.
>
>You could probably tell 'em you're the top poster on RMMGJ and score an "artist
>price" deal from someone somewhere
Whenever I buy a guitar I always tell the store clerk that it they
give it to me gratis, I'll let them put a sign in the window saying,
"The Legendary Max Leggett shops here!!!" and that the resultant surge
in sales will more than cover the cost of the guitar they give me.
Supposedly there's one born every minute, but I haven't found him yet.
Idawg
> This sort of comment always seems a little odd to me. Having played all
> sorts of guitars over the course of many years, I can tell you that they
> *all* need set ups, fret dressing, and tweaking. And because every player is
> different we all want our guitars set up to our personal specifications. I
> could take a guitar that is set up the way you like it and it might not be
> exactly the way I like it. This wouldn't mean the guitar had a bad neck.
>
> Visit me on the web www.joefinn.net
Hi Joe,
Do you really think a fret dressing on a brand new guitar should be an
expected expense? If there is no fret wear and all the frets where
installed correctly why should they *all* need it? I did buy a
slighly used (one to two years) that needed it. Around here a fret
dressing runs $85 and up (way up for some people).
Thanks
Steve
"thomas" <tomb...@jhu.edu> wrote:
> ...The "buy American" trope is immoral...
What's "trope," and why is trope immoral?
-SteveYetter-
GregD/OASYSCO
@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
>
> "thomas" <tomb...@jhu.edu> wrote:
>
>> ...The "buy American" trope is immoral...
>
> What's "trope," and why is trope immoral?
It's the past tense noun of "tripe". It's immoral because there is no such
word or part of speec as a "past tense noun" :)-
Greg
> -SteveYetter-
>
>
>
Joe Finn
>
> ...........that's the perception. Likewise, Gibson's inattention to
detail
> even on expensive guitars should be even a larger rumor and affect sales,
> but it's not and it doesn't. So why does the Heritage "rumor" live on?
Beats me. We've seen a lot of stories here about clarus amps failing too. So
what? Nothing sounds like a clarus.
You pays yo' money and you takes yo' chances.
You might get a kick out of the interview with Marvin Lamb, J.P. Moats and
Bill Paige in the latest JJG if you have not seen it already. .....joe
Lumpy
[to Joe Finn]
> Where the disconnect comes for me is from
> the vastly different perspectives we have.
> You are a full time player/teacher/performer
> and I'm a half-assed amateur with a demanding
> day job leaving much less time than ideal for
> playing. I DO want things to be as close to
> right as possible the first time. The place
> I bought the Heritage told me exactly what Jeff
> Hale told me, "the guitar will get a
Consider:
A "professional setup" for Tuck Andress would be
an entirely different animal than a professional
setup for John Mclaughlin. So an "out the door"
setup is a compromise. "Close to right" is a
theory that could be quite different from one
player to the next.
Not to mention that once your guitar gets home
and lives in it's new environment, everything will
change a little. Measurements will shrink and grow.
You'll change strings. Your playing style will differ
from the setup luthier's.
I would consider your less frequent playing an even
greater reason to have good and frequent, personalized
setups. If Joe plays 20 times the amount of hours that
you do, he can probably live with a little "out of tolerance"
adjustments in his guitar. You, on the other hand, might
benefit from more frequent, and especially from more
personalized setups.
An acceptible setup, to me, is not simply "set the action
at x/64ths and adjust the truss rod. A good setup at MINIMUM
involves the luthier asking/hearing/watching your playing
style, your strings, your tunings, material, venues, body
ergonomics etc.
Consider the computer that perhaps you use at your
day job. You might choose to set the screen resolution,
desktop icons, colors, fonts etc to something very
different than the next person.
I've been getting frequent setups for many, many years
on several instruments. I am ALWAYS amazed at the
difference it makes, even with instruments that are
setup very, very often.
But NO setup is more important than that initial one
that occurrs after the guitar has settled into your
environment. Followed, in importance, by the follow
up setup that occurrs 6 mo down the road.
Things to do:
Wheel alignment.
Teeth cleaned.
Guitar setup.
I tend to be more lax on the first two than on the 3rd..:-)
Lumpy
--
Linus Sets Up Lucy
http://www.digitalcartography.com/LinLucy.mp3
Greger Hoel
>The place I bought the Heritage told me
>exactly what Jeff Hale told me, "the guitar will get a professional set
>up..." Well, Jeff came through, the other person didn't. That means a
>lot to me.
If the guitar was shipped to you after the setup, there's no way you
can know that the setuo wasn't happening. No amount whatsoever of
beforehand 'upsetting' :P can stop the wood in the neck from shifting
drastically in shipping, if it's been subjected to a wide range of
temperatures and humidities.
--
_______________________________________________
Always cross a vampire, never moon a werewolf
To reach me, swap spammers get bent with softhome
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GregD/OASYSCO
> "GregD/OASYSCO" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote
>>
>> ...........that's the perception. Likewise, Gibson's inattention
>> to
> detail
>> even on expensive guitars should be even a larger rumor and affect
>> sales, but it's not and it doesn't. So why does the Heritage "rumor"
>> live on?
>
>
> Beats me. We've seen a lot of stories here about clarus amps failing
> too. So what? Nothing sounds like a clarus.
Yes, and I think that is damaging, or was damaging. But with few, if any
reports in the last year or two, with Clarus having little history to
begin with, and with Clarus being so responsive to fix problems for
free, any damaging effects will be short-lived.
You know, it probably wouldn't be as bad for Heritage *if* they had
better than a one year warranty.
I've had probolems with Gibsons and Epis before, but with a lifetime
warranty, I have never been dissatisified, except one time when a brand
new guitar had a slight neck warp that made getting optimal action
impossible, yet didn't affect buzzing or intonation. That one event
soured me on Gibson for a few years, but now I'm back in the fold :)-
>
> You pays yo' money and you takes yo' chances.
Agreed.
>
> You might get a kick out of the interview with Marvin Lamb, J.P. Moats
> and Bill Paige in the latest JJG if you have not seen it already.
> .....joe
I don't get JJG, but will ask Santa this year for a subscription.
I will say this: when looking for a guitar a couple of years back, I
contacted Jay Wolfe and inquired on a few Heritage models. I told him of
my fear (real or unfounded) of getting a Heritage with a bad neck or in
need of a fret level outta the box. He assured me that he wouldn't send
me one like that. Having met him at a gutiar show5 or 6 years ago, I
believe him. I ended up choosing an instrument at a local store, but had
I not done that, i would have ended up with a Heritage from Jay.
Greg
Michael L Kankiewicz
I'll chime in here. There's a big difference between a good or bad
setup, and *a bad neck.*
MK
Zippy the Pinhead
<gre...@spammersgetbent.net> wrote:
>If the guitar was shipped to you after the setup, there's no way you
>can know that the setuo wasn't happening. No amount whatsoever of
>beforehand 'upsetting' :P can stop the wood in the neck from shifting
>drastically in shipping, if it's been subjected to a wide range of
>temperatures and humidities.
I took a Heritage Eagle off the rack yesterday and played it. The
sixth string fretted out at about the 16th fret -- not too bad, only
rattling when you fretted at the 15th. They adjusted the neck.
Is this a common problem with the Heritage?
I liked the unamplified sound of the Eagle better than anything else I
tried.
Joe Finn
> Alan wrote:
>
> > Where the disconnect comes for me is from
> > the vastly different perspectives we have.
> > You are a full time player/teacher/performer
> > and I'm a half-assed amateur with a demanding
> > day job leaving much less time than ideal for
> > playing. I DO want things to be as close to
> > right as possible the first time. The place
> > I bought the Heritage told me exactly what Jeff
> > Hale told me, "the guitar will get a
> > professional set up..."...
Alan: This is about the guitar more than the player. Neck relief, action,
and intonation are things we measure and adjust. Fret leveling is likewise.
Strings are of course another big factor.
I learned how to do "professional set ups" long ago but as I suggested
previously what seems like "as close to right as possible" to you may seem
like a big problem to the next guy. ......joe
Joe Finn
"Zippy the Pinhead" <the_corpo...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> I took a Heritage Eagle off the rack yesterday and played it. The
> sixth string fretted out at about the 16th fret -- not too bad, only
> rattling when you fretted at the 15th. They adjusted the neck.
>
> Is this a common problem with the Heritage?
I think it's a common problem with any guitar made from wood. 8-)
The guitar is like a barometer and the neck geometry will change with the
seasons. I've always taught my guitar students how to set up thier own
instruments. As we say, "rocket surgery, it ain't." .......joe
JazzLover
> Sorry gang, I know my head will roll for this one but
> why buy an Eastman instead of a Heritage?
>
> The Heritage is American made for the same or less money.
> I've played Eastman and some of them are ok
> but some of them are crude.
> I have little to no complaints with Heritage
> and if you can find one second hand it's usually at a good price.
>
> Call me old fashioned bit I just don't get it.
> Congratulations to everyone who has bought an Eastman and loves it
> but before you plunk down your cold hard earned,
> take a spin through Kalamazoo.
>
> A tear coming down my cheek like the Indian in that stupid commercial
> gooeyboy
I concur. My opinion on the Eastman's is that they look nice and get
a good acoustic sound but I am not crazy about the amplified tone.
Alan
appreciate the education and plan on living with the Eastman for a bit
and then getting her to my tech. Thanks, Lumpy.
alan
Alan
the education.
alan
Jurupari
>word or part of speec as a "past tense noun" :)-
...unless you're a speec riter for the President
Then expect much will have been trope in the future
Ra
> I think it's a common problem with any guitar made from wood. 8-)
> The guitar is like a barometer and the neck geometry will change with the seasons.
A lot of the old timey Bluegrassers have both a Summer and Winter saddle,
to compensate for the way the humidity affects your action.
I found that the action on my Guilds all got higher after a few months in the Keys.
( back when I was keeping guitars longer than 2 weeks )
However, my Mahogany guitars don't seem to be affected.
I'm wondering if it's because Mahogany is a tropical wood
that isn't as affected by humidity changes?
--
best regards,
Ra
----------------------------------------------------
http://surfpick.com
Lignum Vitae
----------------------------------------------------
Ra
Good plan.
It is wise to wait until the guitar acclimates to it's new home,
before making any serious adjustments.
Of course, you still have seasonal variations to deal with.
D.Onstenk
headstock. If so many guitarist are turned off by them - and I think this
statement has been amply proven here over the years - and they are a tiny
bit marketing minded at Heritage they'd change the headstock design.
I think they'd sell way more archtops if they'do that. Beats me why they
haven't yet.
Personally I could never own one just because of that headstock.
#####
"gooeyboy" <gooe...@verizon.net> schreef in bericht
news:r9T6d.11044$Xd2.10932@trndny01...
D.Onstenk
Fact is, I find many luthier made and boutique archtops kind of unappealing
visually.
As far as looks is concerned, I still like vintage Gibson best.
#####
"D.Onstenk" <d.on...@chello.nl> schreef in bericht
news:2s5oavF...@uni-berlin.de...
Ra
> I think they'd sell way more archtops if they'do that. Beats me why they
> haven't yet.
If they had designed some elaborate 'D'Angelico' style headstock,
when they began making guitars, they'd probably be selling for
over twice the price that they are, so I guess, for pure poor players,
it's good that they didn't?
Pete Kerezman
wrote:
>I'm sure they are fine guitars that look great ... apart from the the ugly
>headstock. If so many guitarist are turned off by them - and I think this
>statement has been amply proven here over the years - and they are a tiny
>bit marketing minded at Heritage they'd change the headstock design.
>
>I think they'd sell way more archtops if they'do that. Beats me why they
>haven't yet.
Perhaps it's because, as former employees of Gibson, they've seen
far too many guitars come in for repairs of broken headstocks. In
case you think I'm talkin' through my pork pie hat one of 'em was my
long-gone c.1967 ES330, never abused, fallen, dropped or had any
strings on it other than OEM replacements, yet the "lovely" headstock
broke for no apparent reason.
>Personally I could never own one just because of that headstock.
Form follows function. I can't even believe that a hard-core bopper
such as yourself gives a crap about appearances.
Texas Pete
Greger Hoel
LOL - You're killing me, Clif
thomas
do you value one human life more than another? I think that
to do so on the basis of nationality is immoral. Your religion
may vary.
"GregD/OASYSCO" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<Xns9574E853...@68.1.17.6>...
Greger Hoel
wrote:
>By the way, taste is a weird thing. I don't like the look of Eastmans much.
>Fact is, I find many luthier made and boutique archtops kind of unappealing
>visually.
I feel pretty much the same. Many luthier made instruments are
visually too bloated with 100-ply bindings, gold enamel and what have
you. Looks more like something Liberace would wear, if he played the
guitar.
Ra
> You can't joke your way past the central issue: On what basis
> do you value one human life more than another? I think that
> to do so on the basis of nationality is immoral. Your religion
> may vary.
I try to hate everyone equally.
--
best regards,
Ra
----------------------------------------------------
http://surfpick.com/wholesale
Now... wholesale to the public
----------------------------------------------------
D.Onstenk
about that. It doesn't even have a cutaway.
I think the whole boutique and luthier archtop thing is wasted on me anyway.
The prettiest straight ahead jazz guitar sound IMHO is that of Joe Pass on
"Joy Spring" and "For Django". Nothing fancy there ....
#####
"Pete Kerezman" <pete...@aol.com> schreef in bericht
news:ilbrl0pp2qhqb517v...@4ax.com...
GregD/OASYSCO
news:20041001131121...@mb-m10.aol.com:
Whell, yer abolsut write!
Greg
GregD/OASYSCO
news:7d424f23.04100...@posting.google.com:
> You can't joke your way past the central issue: On what basis
> do you value one human life more than another? I think that
> to do so on the basis of nationality is immoral. Your religion
> may vary.
Huh? Value human life based on nationality? Heck, we in the US have the
death penalty and we use it on our own countrymen, so I'm not sure what
you are talking about or to whom you are addressing your concerns.
I am curious, why is "Buy American" immoral?
What's wrong with buying Avon goods from a neighbor instead of rushing
out to the local Wal-mart to buy? What's wrong with buying goods from
your local Wal-mart instead of driving 50 miles to buy it from another
community's discount store? What's wrong with buyin goods made in your
state first, if possible, before buying goods made in other US states?
What's wrong with trying to buy American goods (made by non-Americans
and Americans working for companies that may or may not be American-
owned) before rushing to buy overseas? What's wrong with buying goods
from US-friendly nations like Great Britain before rushing to buy them
from non-friendly countries?
I don't see the immorality in having a hierarchy to use for purchases
instead of searching out the cheapest possible product. And if you see
it as immoral, so? What do I care? It's my money; I worked for it (in
the City in which I live, I might add, where I also spend most of it),
so I should be free to spend where and how I feel for whatever reasons I
choose... or are you advocating that external forces of your own design
should control my spending patterns regardless of the loyalty I feel
first to my neighborhood, to my city, to my state, to my nation, to
friendly foreign nations to the world?
Greg
Joe Finn
"Ra" <use...@freetoys.com> wrote
> ............ my Mahogany guitars don't seem to be affected.
> I'm wondering if it's because Mahogany is a tropical wood
> that isn't as affected by humidity changes?
Mahogany is pretty stable. Fred Fried's guitar is mahogany and he says it
never needs adjustment. I had an old mahogany Les Paul that required very
little seasonal adjustment too. .......joe
Joe Finn
"D.Onstenk" <d.on...@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:2s5oavF...@uni-berlin.de...
> I'm sure they are fine guitars that look great ... apart from the the ugly
> headstock. If so many guitarist are turned off by them - and I think this
> statement has been amply proven here over the years - and they are a tiny
> bit marketing minded at Heritage they'd change the headstock design.
I think from reading a newsgroup like this one might assume that "many
guitarists are turned off by the" head design, but this is the only place
I've ever seen that sort of remark.
> I think they'd sell way more archtops if they'do that. Beats me why they
> haven't yet.
They actually sell pretty well. I don't think Heritage is especially
concerned with expanding their sales numbers. They are basically a small
custom shop focused on high quality more than marketing. .........joe
Mondoslug1
>"D.Onstenk" <d.on...@chello.nl> wrote in message
>news:2s5oavF...@uni-berlin.de...
>> I'm sure they are fine guitars that look great ... apart from the the ugly
>> headstock. If so many guitarist are turned off by them - and I think this
>> statement has been amply proven here over the years - and they are a tiny
>> bit marketing minded at Heritage they'd change the headstock design.
>
>I think from reading a newsgroup like this one might assume that "many
>guitarists are turned off by the" head design, but this is the only place
>I've ever seen that sort of remark.
That's why they call it RMMGJ.
>They actually sell pretty well. I don't think Heritage is especially
>concerned with expanding their sales numbers.
Olson guitars they ain't. I bet they would welcome an increase in sales.
Jack A. Zucker
> Well, I am playing my old ES 125 a lot these days so you are probably
right
> about that. It doesn't even have a cutaway.
>
> I think the whole boutique and luthier archtop thing is wasted on me
anyway.
> The prettiest straight ahead jazz guitar sound IMHO is that of Joe Pass on
> "Joy Spring" and "For Django". Nothing fancy there ....
Wow Dick! That's 2x in a row we've agreed! :-)
Adey
than set-up. Unless one wants to re-carve the neck, which on a premium
price guitar seems daft, one has to really like the neck first. If the neck
suits one's hands and one's playing, then tone is next on the list of
considerations. If those two work together, *then* one gets a set up to
personal specifications.
Without the right neck it will never feel right.
Some people are more sensitive to this. I'm really bad at putting words to
what I feel, but some guitars feel better to me than others. Sometimes it
is set-up and sometimes its neck shape. For some people it's obvious at the
first that the neck is wrong. Playing with an uncomfortable neck is going
to hamper one's playing. It's perfectly possible most people would get used
to a neck they didn't like at first, but why waste time? But it's also
possible some people would never get used to certain necks. Not only are
all guitars different, everybody's hands are different too.
"Joe Finn" <J...@JoeFinn.net> wrote in message
news:415c2...@corp.newsgroups.com...
>
>
>> "Alan" <ad...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>
>> > Appreciate your point, gb, but my experience was exactly the opposite
>> > which is why I went with the Eastman. I bought a Heritage Super Eagle
>> > from a well-respected dealer and returned it within days due to one of
>> > the worst necks I had ever seen. It turned me off so much I didn't
>> > want to try another. Is that fair? No, it isn't, but it was a negative
>> > enough experience to turn me off for a long time.
>
>
> This sort of comment always seems a little odd to me. Having played all
> sorts of guitars over the course of many years, I can tell you that they
> *all* need set ups, fret dressing, and tweaking. And because every player
> is
> different we all want our guitars set up to our personal specifications. I
> could take a guitar that is set up the way you like it and it might not be
> exactly the way I like it. This wouldn't mean the guitar had a bad neck.
>
> A new guitar is especially suspect because the neck alignment takes time
> to
> settle in. This gradually stabilizes as the instrument is "played in"
> during
> the first year or so.
>
> There is also a subjective element to be considered. The way a guitar
> feels
> to player is a personal thing. It's hard to put into words but I don't
> think
> I would conclude that any given [premium quality] instrument had a "bad
> neck" after a few days. It takes a fair period of time to become
> accustomed
> to the feeling of a new guitar.
>
>> > Plus, frankly, I love the way the Eastman looks-something Heritage
>> > can't match in my opinion. However, I don't doubt Heritage makes some
>> > great guitars. Joe Finn, a guy I respect like few other on this
>> > group, swears by his.
>> >
>> > alan
>
> The way a guitar looks is pretty far down my list of priorities. Sound and
> playability are the top considerations. The Heritage is actually a very
> impressive guitar to look at. I don't think I have ever performed on a
> regular basis with a guitar that has gotten noticed more and has inspired
> more audience comments than my blonde Heritage Golden Eagle.
>
> I don't have that guitar anymore. I'm no longer associated with Heritage
> guitars but I can't say anything bad about them. In their price range they
> are unsurpassed.
>
> The guys at Heritage won't be around forever, either. As they move into
> retirement things will undoubtedly change. The craftsmanship and
> experience
> they build into those guitars is legendary. They are making modern
> classics
> at bargain prices. ....joe
D.Onstenk
#####
"Joe Finn" <J...@JoeFinn.net> schreef in bericht
news:415eb...@corp.newsgroups.com...
Kevin Van Sant
in message <415eb...@corp.newsgroups.com> :
>I think from reading a newsgroup like this one might assume that "many
>guitarists are turned off by the" head design, but this is the only place
>I've ever seen that sort of remark.
It's ugly Joe, get over it :)
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
jazz guitar
http://www.kevinvansant.com
to buy my CDs, hear sound clips, see videos, and get more info.
Alternate site for recent soundclips
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/kevinvansant_music.htm
Ra
"D.Onstenk" wrote
> What does an all mahogany archtop (back-sides-top-neck) sound like?
Melloooowwwww......
http://www.surfpick.com/guitars/heritage/
--
best regards,
Ra
----------------------------------------------------
D.Onstenk
#####
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> schreef in bericht
news:482dnUke-ZX...@adelphia.com...
Jack A. Zucker
for the money. I do think the headstock is ugly and a nicer inlay and
redesign (much like what they did with the tailpiece) would be a welcome
change, particularly on the more expensive models.
I've heard the headstock comment from lots of people and most don't even
have internet access. Sometimes, I think we forget that the internet
phenomenon is relatively recent. Until a couple years ago, 75% of the
musicians I know didn't have internet access.
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
"Kevin Van Sant" <kvan...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:iugtl0h3536l33n1o...@4ax.com...
Michael Ellenberger
Kevin Van Sant wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 10:39:23 -0400, "Joe Finn" <J...@JoeFinn.net>
> wrote in message <415eb...@corp.newsgroups.com> :
>
>
>> I think from reading a newsgroup like this one might assume that
>> "many guitarists are turned off by the" head design, but this is
>> the only place I've ever seen that sort of remark.
>
>
>
>
> It's ugly Joe, get over it :)
>
It's an acquired taste. I'm sure if I worked out on a Heritage every
day I would eventually come to like the headstock.
It's ok Joe. That's what seperates this group from all others!
Mike
--
Mike Ellenberger
Listen to some soundclips at
http://home.att.net/~grumpmeister/MikesJazzPage.html
http://www.soundclick.com/traveler
Ra
I think they're both great.
I was going to keep the Eastman.. but have now decided
to keep the Heritage instead, due to the fact that I've
selected it for some experimentation with bridge designs.
The Heritage may also be a better choice for my location,
because mine is all Mahogany.. and it's humid here.
Either guitar though, is a guitar I would like to keep..
and I sell EVERYTHING!
I've got a Gibson Super Jumbo J150,
a Gibson J185, a Breedlove Atlas, and a Gibson LGO,
that all really sound superb.. but I'm selling them all.
I've also recently sold a Martin, Larrivee, Breedlove, 3 Gibsons, 7 Guilds,
a National Resolectric and a Goodall...
... but the Heritage is the only thing I won't sell.
I go gaga over a gorgeous headstock, such as is found on the D'Aquisto...
but in the overall scheme of things, it's really one of the most insignificant
parts of my Heritage.
Al
axe! If you haven't seen their twisted headstock you haven't seen ugly.
But the thing plays so well it only took me about a week to get past that.
If I could find a more aesthetically pleasing guitar in that price range
that gave me the same playability and tone I'd switch. But I haven't round
one yet -- not even close.
Ra
> I almost didn't buy my Wechter because -- damn -- that's a weird-looking
> axe! If you haven't seen their twisted headstock you haven't seen ugly.
http://i18.ebayimg.com/02/i/02/88/0c/b1_1.JPG
Looks like a Dali painting.
Kinda cool though.
Al
"Ra" <use...@freetoys.com> wrote in message
news:RvF7d.222929$%n4.2...@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
thomas
So slip a paper bag over the headstock and play it in the dark.
Kurt Shapiro
"CK" <kinbo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7ded4b9f.0409...@posting.google.com...
> > "Alan" <ad...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1096549095.144061.115450
> > That said, I'd buy one *if* I was 100% sure it was cherry *and* I'd look
> > at a Heritage before I looked at an Eastman only to "keep it in the
> > family".
>
> I think this used to be the motto of the KKK. Good to know that racism
> still thrives in this country.
>
Kurt Shapiro
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
news:4bOdnckvu4M...@adelphia.com...
GregD/OASYSCO
in news:1PydndFNi6S...@comcast.com:
You know, I originally took this as being facetious, but now I'm not sure.
Perhaps, the guy really meant that it was good that racism is alive. I
mean, he claims to know the mottoes of the KKK, about which is something I
have no knowledge.
I wonder if it's possible that Sam Walbon (of Wal-Bart fame) was a KKK
member. Originally, the motto of Wal-Bart was "We *only* buy American-made
goods". As time rolled on and the global economy started to encroach, Sam
must have felt a little less affinity for the KKK, when the motto changed
to "We buy American-made goods when we can". Later, after Sam's death and
ties to the KKK disappeared, Wal-bart's motto seems to be, "We 'aint buying
no stinking Yankee goods".
Greg
PS. I am being facetious.
Joe Finn
> in message <415eb...@corp.newsgroups.com> :
>
> >I think from reading a newsgroup like this one might assume that "many
> >guitarists are turned off by the" head design, but this is the only place
> >I've ever seen that sort of remark.
>
>
>
> It's ugly Joe, get over it :)
Well, to the extent that I don't even own a Heritage at this stage, I guess
I'm over it at least a little. .......joe
thom_j
> So slip a paper bag over the headstock and play it in the dark.
Maybe it's a double bagger? always curious tee'...
Tom Walls
gre...@spammersgetbent.net says...
> On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 21:12:18 +0200, "D.Onstenk" <d.on...@chello.nl>
> wrote:
>
> >By the way, taste is a weird thing. I don't like the look of Eastmans much.
> >Fact is, I find many luthier made and boutique archtops kind of unappealing
> >visually.
>
> I feel pretty much the same. Many luthier made instruments are
> visually too bloated with 100-ply bindings, gold enamel and what have
> you. Looks more like something Liberace would wear, if he played the
> guitar.
>
Or in an attempt to innovate they add features that you(I) don't want:
large or extra sound holes, unusual colors -- red, green, blue, yellow.
They often go overboard on the headstock, too: oversized, too ornate. I
actually prefer the Heritage headstock to many of the boutique guitars.
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
Ra
> They often go overboard on the headstock, too: oversized, too ornate. I
> actually prefer the Heritage headstock to many of the boutique guitars.
> --
> Tom Walls
Maybe with archtops.. but with flattops,
brands like Bourgeois, Collings, Santa Cruz, etc..
often seem to have pretty boring headstocks?
Greger Hoel
I love the headstock on the Gibson Pat Martino: Elegant design, both
visually and functionally, as the strings run in a straight line from
tailpiece to tuner.
--
_______________________________________________
Always cross a vampire, never moon a werewolf
To reach me, swap spammers get bent with softhome
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Rosenberg
headstock has one distinct advantage: The strings pull straighter over
the nut than with the traditional Gibson headstock. That's got to be
worth something.
Steven Rosenberg
steven_h_rosenberg(AT)yahoonospamplease.com
"D.Onstenk" <d.on...@chello.nl> wrote in message news:<2s5oavF...@uni-berlin.de>...
> I'm sure they are fine guitars that look great ... apart from the the ugly
> headstock. If so many guitarist are turned off by them - and I think this
> statement has been amply proven here over the years - and they are a tiny
> bit marketing minded at Heritage they'd change the headstock design.
>
> I think they'd sell way more archtops if they'do that. Beats me why they
> haven't yet.
>
> Personally I could never own one just because of that headstock.
>
> #####
>
>
> "gooeyboy" <gooe...@verizon.net> schreef in bericht
> news:r9T6d.11044$Xd2.10932@trndny01...
> > Sorry gang, I know my head will roll for this one but
> > why buy an Eastman instead of a Heritage?
> >
> > The Heritage is American made for the same or less money.
> > I've played Eastman and some of them are ok
> > but some of them are crude.
> > I have little to no complaints with Heritage
> > and if you can find one second hand it's usually at a good price.
> >
> > Call me old fashioned bit I just don't get it.
> > Congratulations to everyone who has bought an Eastman and loves it
> > but before you plunk down your cold hard earned,
> > take a spin through Kalamazoo.
> >
> > A tear coming down my cheek like the Indian in that stupid commercial
> > gooeyboy
> >
> >
> >
Rob
Gibson someone posted a link to a month or so ago. Aside from the
toad-stabber headstock. Which doesn't seem all that ugly to me.
RD
thomas wrote:
> "Steve" <elr...@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<euU6d.21864$QJ3....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>...
>
>>What I don't like about them is the separate fingerboard extension, where
>>the Heritage is one piece neck
>
>
> I thought that Eastman made the fretboard both ways, with and
> without the suspension?
>
> Comparing the two companies in general, Heritage guitars are
> kind of ugly; Eastman's are very good-looking. Beyond that,
> I compare piece by piece, not company by company.
>
> The "buy American" trope is immoral. Chinese luthiers need
> to eat just as much as American luthiers. I refuse to value
> one human life more than another on the basis of nationality.
> God will get you for that.
Ra
> Ugly?? Why I oughtta! My H575 is a dead ringer for some purty, old
> Gibson someone posted a link to a month or so ago. Aside from the
> toad-stabber headstock. Which doesn't seem all that ugly to me.
>
> RD
Some of those Super Eagles are gorgeous.
I love the looks of my Mahogany topped model too.
I'm not real fond of some of the bursts..
but I don't care for bursts, in general.
( got a J185 EC burst for sale though, 3 months old )
--
best regards,
Ra
----------------------------------------------------
http://surfpick.com
Lignum Vitae
----------------------------------------------------