Endorsing Guitars (Long)
BD
This is not intended as an inflammatory post, but I thought it might
be an interesting issue to talk about. I am not aiming the comments at
any individuals, rather at the phenomenon in general as it seems to
operate in the music business.
****** Health Warning ******
Recent posts have set me to thinking about artist endorsements of
music gear, the most obvious example being the endorsement of guitar
models or indeed the development of signature guitars.
I have to say that in my younger days, when I was a misguided teenage
rock fan, I owned a couple of signature guitars. One of them was a
damn fine guitar in its own right, the other (the more expensive of
the two) may have been a fine guitar, but I am guessing that it was so
individual a design (specific to the needs of the artist in question)
that I found it unplayable after the initial novelty had worn off.
The phenomenon also exists in the jazz world and I have to say that I
have recently become sceptical about the practice. I always thought
that it operated along the lines of "I use the Fenson Stratopaul and
it's a great guitar"...said artist is seen using said guitar on a
regular basis and therefore people know the sort of sound and style it
can be used for etc etc...in return said artist receives a free
guitar(s) in lieu of his support. Seems reasonable...I like the
guitars and use them, so I am happy to recommend them. All above
board.
It now appears, however, that artists also receive royalties on the
guitars sold. Given the above scenario, I guess that's OK as far as it
goes...as long as said artist is sincere...how do you gauge that? If
he's used the guitar for the last few years then it's reasonable to
assume he's genuine. On that basis, I would be questioning the Barney
Kessel model (twin cutaways) given that I don't think (could be wrong)
that he ever actually used this guitar for jazz, or rather the
endorsement of it.
Am I saying that an artist should not be allowed to change guitars?
Of course not. Some recent examples of high profile artists who have
had signature guitars produced...Pat Metheny, Martin Taylor, George
Benson (OK, not so recent)...BUT...all of these guys use their
signature guitars as their main guitars therefore I, as an indivual
feel that they are sincere in their endorsement of the company.
What about dead artists such as Charlie Christian and Wes?
Well, the signature guitars are basically the guitars that they used
during their careers. Maybe the materials have been updated, maybe the
pickups are a bit more modern, but they are, in spirit, the guitars
that they used.
A recent example that made me very sceptical was our very own Jimmy
B's defection to Hohner guitars, and then additional change to
Sadowsky before a Hohner model had even come out. I think he hinted
that it was because the business side of things couldn't be agreed
with Hohner. In spite of this, he says that Bob B makes the finest
guitars in the world...I would not be brave enough to disagree with
that comment. If that is the case, why the move away? It seems to be a
financial issue. In which case I have to question how sincere the
endorsement is if it is money related...particularly if some young kid
then goes and blows a lot of hard earned money on an instrument an
artist endorses for no other reason than that he is paying paid to.
As Jimmy himself said recently, it's ironic that when you finally make
it in the music world the companies start throwing gear at you, but
when you really need it...
I apologise if I sound very negative about this, and I don't mean to
have a dig at Jimmy - it's just that his example was what got me to
thinking - it is ultimately up to the artist what they choose to do,
I'm not trying to suggest how to live their life, just that I am
becoming very cynical about the whole artist endorsement and signature
model phenomenon.
I'm more than happy to be proved wrong on this one, or have the error
of my ways pointed out to me.
Just thought this might make an interesting topic to discuss, and I
know we can have a mature debate about it without mudslinging or
trolling - if Jimmy is offended by anything I have written, I
apologise, but it was not my intention to offend. I obviously don't
have the full picture about Jimmy's reasons for endorsing and there
may be more to it.
Cheers.
GregD/OASYSCO
news:21bbb4a5.04100...@posting.google.com:
> ****** Health Warning ******
>
> This is not intended as an inflammatory post, but I thought it might
> be an interesting issue to talk about. I am not aiming the comments at
> any individuals, rather at the phenomenon in general as it seems to
> operate in the music business.
>
> ****** Health Warning ******
>
> Recent posts have set me to thinking about artist endorsements of
> music gear, the most obvious example being the endorsement of guitar
> models or indeed the development of signature guitars.
>
> I have to say that in my younger days, when I was a misguided teenage
> rock fan, I owned a couple of signature guitars. One of them was a
> damn fine guitar in its own right, the other (the more expensive of
> the two) may have been a fine guitar, but I am guessing that it was so
> individual a design (specific to the needs of the artist in question)
> that I found it unplayable after the initial novelty had worn off.
I owned a D'Aqusito-designed Swiss archtop in the 70's. I had no idea
whe D'Aquisto was nor did I care if he only designed the guitar and
never actually touched it. I fell in love with it on looks alone.
>
> The phenomenon also exists in the jazz world and I have to say that I
Yeah, but it's way bigger in the rock world - SRV, Clapton, and many
many others.
> have recently become sceptical about the practice. I always thought
> that it operated along the lines of "I use the Fenson Stratopaul and
> it's a great guitar"...said artist is seen using said guitar on a
> regular basis and therefore people know the sort of sound and style it
> can be used for etc etc...in return said artist receives a free
> guitar(s) in lieu of his support. Seems reasonable...I like the
> guitars and use them, so I am happy to recommend them. All above
> board.
Why should folks be limited to endorsing things they only use
themselves? When a basketball player holds up a bottle of floor cleanser
on TV, am I to believe that he actually cleans his own floors?
>
> It now appears, however, that artists also receive royalties on the
> guitars sold.
They should. Thier name that they have spent a lifetime promoting has
got to be worth something.
> Given the above scenario, I guess that's OK as far as it
> goes...as long as said artist is sincere...how do you gauge that? If
> he's used the guitar for the last few years then it's reasonable to
> assume he's genuine. On that basis, I would be questioning the Barney
> Kessel model (twin cutaways) given that I don't think (could be wrong)
> that he ever actually used this guitar for jazz, or rather the
> endorsement of it.
>
> Am I saying that an artist should not be allowed to change guitars?
>
> Of course not. Some recent examples of high profile artists who have
> had signature guitars produced...Pat Metheny, Martin Taylor, George
> Benson (OK, not so recent)...BUT...all of these guys use their
> signature guitars as their main guitars therefore I, as an indivual
> feel that they are sincere in their endorsement of the company.
>
> What about dead artists such as Charlie Christian and Wes?
>
> Well, the signature guitars are basically the guitars that they used
> during their careers. Maybe the materials have been updated, maybe the
> pickups are a bit more modern, but they are, in spirit, the guitars
> that they used.
>
> A recent example that made me very sceptical was our very own Jimmy
> B's defection to Hohner guitars
I almost bought a Hohner SE40 for $400, but thought it was kinda junky -
don't tell Jimmy, though. I'm thinking Hohner gives Jimmy free
harmonicas for endorsing their guitars... make that "guitar" as I think
they only have one model.
>, and then additional change to
> Sadowsky before a Hohner model had even come out.
And isn't that the right thing to do - before they commit to a model?
Johnny Smith has switched endorsing companies so many times, I'm noyt
sure who all out there *hasn't* made a JS model.
>I think he hinted
> that it was because the business side of things couldn't be agreed
> with Hohner.
They really like making harmonicas and that's what I heard nix'ed the
deal for Jimmy. He wanted a $300 archtop, but they insisted on a $5
harmonica. They just couldn't reach an agreement with Jimmy wanting a
guitar and Hohner only willing to part with a Harmonica.
> In spite of this, he says that Bob B makes the finest
> guitars in the world...I would not be brave enough to disagree with
> that comment. If that is the case, why the move away? It seems to be a
> financial issue. In which case I have to question how sincere the
> endorsement is if it is money related...particularly if some young kid
> then goes and blows a lot of hard earned money on an instrument an
> artist endorses for no other reason than that he is paying paid to.
Well, I've got a feeling that if some young kid blows his wad on a
Benedetto then he's a very rich, young kid.
> As Jimmy himself said recently, it's ironic that when you finally make
> it in the music world the companies start throwing gear at you, but
> when you really need it...
>
> I apologise if I sound very negative about this, and I don't mean to
> have a dig at Jimmy - it's just that his example was what got me to
> thinking - it is ultimately up to the artist what they choose to do,
> I'm not trying to suggest how to live their life, just that I am
> becoming very cynical about the whole artist endorsement and signature
> model phenomenon.
>
> I'm more than happy to be proved wrong on this one, or have the error
> of my ways pointed out to me.
It's all about making a living. Samick's deal with Charlie Christian to
endorse a guitar smacks of, well, the occult :)- I mean, he's been dead
for decades, yet somehow they got the permission of his estate to use
his name on a guitar that he never played by a maker who wasn't even in
business back in the day.
Joe Pass endorsed the Epi JP sig archtop but never, ever used it.
Basketball players, baseball players, entertainers - all of 'em endorse
stuff they may or may not use. It's the way they make a living. I don't
have a problem with it.
>
> Just thought this might make an interesting topic to discuss, and I
> know we can have a mature debate about it without mudslinging or
> trolling - if Jimmy is offended by anything I have written, I
> apologise, but it was not my intention to offend. I obviously don't
> have the full picture about Jimmy's reasons for endorsing and there
> may be more to it.
>
> Cheers.
>
But you some in anonymous and no signature at the bottom.
Greg
Mondoslug1
>They really like making harmonicas and that's what I heard nix'ed the
>deal for Jimmy. He wanted a $300 archtop, but they insisted on a $5
>harmonica. They just couldn't reach an agreement with Jimmy wanting a
>guitar and Hohner only willing to part with a Harmonica.
Yeah but Hofner agreed.
Mark Guest
(snip)
> It now appears, however, that artists also receive royalties on the
> guitars sold.
Jazz musician are, IMO, the most highly trained, lowest paid professionals
out there. A very few receive industry support via product endorsements. Is
that the case with all endorsers? I don't think so, but I'd like to learn
more. (Jack? Comment?) Even if every endorser made a couple of hundred
(right!) off each endorsed product, I fail to see the harm. It is great to
see industry promoting jazz and jazz musicians through endorsement deals.
Consumers bear the responsibility to be informed. Those who make significant
purchases based on the endorsement of an individual not known to the
purchaser are likely to make poor choices until they learn to become better
informed.
And while we're disagreeing, let me point out that Jimmy Bruno worked with
Hofner, not Hohner.
Mark Guest
Mark at MarkGuest.net
www.MarkGuest.net
Mondoslug1
There are very, very, very, FEW players/artists jazz or otherwise being paid
"money" for endorsements.
Rick R.
anything he can do connected with jazz guitar to make a living is
justified...
morally? when you put a price on your goods or services
you can kiss part of your soul goodbye..
"BD" <poster_...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:21bbb4a5.04100...@posting.google.com...
First Alternate
I am
> becoming very cynical about the whole artist endorsement and signature
> model phenomenon.
>
Some years back I played bass in a band that opened for a national act.
Their bassist was gracious enough to let me plug into his rig for our set.
He was a "name" and was a Carvin endorser; his picture was even in their
catalog at that time.
He had not one item of Carvin gear on stage.
Ra
"BD" wrote
> I have to question how sincere the
> endorsement is if it is money related...particularly if some young kid
> then goes and blows a lot of hard earned money on an instrument an
> artist endorses for no other reason than that he is paying paid to.
You just figuring that out now?
I pay no attention to artist endorsements.
I find the comments in this group to be a far more valuable indicator of value.
Joe Pass would have probably played an L-5, or something like that,
if he wasn't so underapprecaited, that he needed things like endorsement deals.
If he chose his all guitars on merit, he probably wouldn't have spent time
playing with electrical tape covering the headstock logo.
I think Joe Pass is the greatest... but I don't care what instrument he endorsed.
--
best regards,
Ra
----------------------------------------------------
http://surfpick.com/wholesale
Now... wholesale to the public
----------------------------------------------------
Harry J
"Mondoslug1" <mondo...@aol.comwaht> wrote in message
news:20041004084510...@mb-m22.aol.com...
Many companies have changed their policies regarding free product in favor
of artist discount as well.
I just got a Brian Moore endorsement deal last week, had it been a year ago
or so, they would have given me a guitar.
Don't get me wrong, not complaining here... I mean who the hell am I?
Harry Jacobson
www.harryj.net
j...@jackzucker.com
almost every case, the discount they are offering is more than what I
could buy one for on ebay.
I think you have jazz musicians confused with rock stars...
If it were about the money, I wouldn't bother with the endorsement and
would simply buy the pieces used.
Gerry
<use...@freetoys.com> wrote:
> > I have to question how sincere the endorsement is if it is money
> > related...particularly if some young kid then goes and blows a lot
> > of hard earned money on an instrument an artist endorses for no
> > other reason than that he is paying paid to.
>
> You just figuring that out now?
>
> I pay no attention to artist endorsements. I find the comments in
> this group to be a far more valuable indicator of value.
>
> Joe Pass would have probably played an L-5, or something like that,
> if he wasn't so underapprecaited, that he needed things like
> endorsement deals.
>
> If he chose his all guitars on merit, he probably wouldn't have spent
> time playing with electrical tape covering the headstock logo.
>
> I think Joe Pass is the greatest... but I don't care what instrument
> he endorsed.
On the other hand I don't think there are high-visibility players like
Pass and Bruno that would endorse a product that was *bad* per se.
They may have their own needs but when inking an endorsement on a
guitar or guitar-line, it is only their own ethics involved that
qualify the guitar as worthy of carrying their name. That kind of
endorsement is pretty personal. It may not be the guitar they
personally play but it's the kind of guitar they wouldn't have a
problem recommending to their fans.
"Blowing a lot of hard earned money" is what one will do, mostly, on
high-end guitars. Many come with out a signature and will eventually
prove themselves unsuitable for a guitarist as that guitarists approach
morphs and they find themselves drawn to and away from various
characteristics. This happens with and without endorsement.
--
Invest wisely: Over the past 75 years, stocks have averaged annual gains of 2.3
percent under GOP administrations, compared with 9.5 under Democratic ones.
-- Jerry Heaster
Greger Hoel
<ja...@REMOVETHISMarkGuest.net> wrote:
(subject header)
>Endorsing Guitars (Shorter reply)
Why splitting the thread? You don't have to make a new thread every
time you don't quote the entire content. In fact, Usenet guidelines
encourage you to only quote *exactly* what you're replying to. You're
s'posed to split the thread when you're changing the subject discussed
in it.
(reply to BD's first post)
>And while we're disagreeing, let me point out that Jimmy Bruno worked with
>Hofner, not Hohner.
Actually, it's Höfner :P
Okay, I'll stop now, I promise.
--
_______________________________________________
Always cross a vampire, never moon a werewolf
To reach me, swap spammers get bent with softhome
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
j...@jackzucker.com
> Jazz musician are, IMO, the most highly trained, lowest paid
professionals
> out there. A very few receive industry support via product
endorsements. Is
> that the case with all endorsers? I don't think so, but I'd like to
learn
> more. (Jack? Comment?)
Typically the "superstar" artists receive royalties on signature
models. This applies to Scofield, Metheny, Vai, etc. Vai got $250,000
up front on his signature model. Jimmy probably didn't get quite that
much! :-)
Typically in the jazz field, a signature instrument does not entail
royalties but instead benefits both the artist and the company by
virtue of mutual public relations efforts. Again, as you climb the
ladder from obscurity to super stardom there are variations upon the
theme.
Jaz
Mark Guest
> Why splitting the thread? You don't have to make a new thread every
> time you don't quote the entire content. In fact, Usenet guidelines
> encourage you to only quote *exactly* what you're replying to. You're
> s'posed to split the thread when you're changing the subject discussed
> in it.
>
> (reply to BD's first post)
> >And while we're disagreeing, let me point out that Jimmy Bruno worked
with
> >Hofner, not Hohner.
>
> Actually, it's Höfner :P
>
> Okay, I'll stop now, I promise.
Hi Greger,
I guess you're right and I'm wrong. I can live with that.
Best,
j...@jackzucker.com
I'd like to say a word about that. To me, guitars are tools. Nothing
more, nothing less. To put them up on a pedestal as art is ok but only
if music is not the consideration. Yes, D'Aquisto and D'Angelico made
some wonderful pieces of art but my favorite guitarists (Joe Pass, Pat
Metheny, Jim Hall and even Wes Montgomery) made some of the best music
in history playing the Gibson 175 which was the cheapie way back
then...
Regarding someone endorsing but not using the gear, there are a lot of
reasons for that. Some gear just isn't appropriate for a given
situation. I might be endorsing a Hofner Verythin but I'm not going to
use the guitar on a rock or fusion gig. Sometimes there are travel
issues. A very well known guitarist who occasionally posts on this
group has an artist's deal with a company and had his custom archtop
ruined by the airlines. He's now considering using a cheapie korean
guitar for gigs on the road. Allan Holdsworth who loves his Carvin
namesake guitar uses a different guitar on the road that does not have
a headstock and therefore can be easily stored on the overhead
compartment on an airplane.
There are also times where you just feel like using something different
for a different sound. Most artists have loosely structured endorsement
deals which allow them to use the correct tool for the correct job
Jaz
GregD/OASYSCO
news:20041004083306...@mb-m22.aol.com:
That's because they don't make harmonicas! Still, I wonder now that Jimmy
has endorsed Hohner, if he'll be pulling out a harp at his shows. Go,
Jimmy, get down and blow some harp, man! Yeahhh....
Greg
GregD/OASYSCO
news:1096908439....@h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com:
>
> First Alternate wrote:
>> I am
>> > becoming very cynical about the whole artist endorsement and
> signature
>> > model phenomenon.
>> >
>>
>> Some years back I played bass in a band that opened for a national
> act.
>> Their bassist was gracious enough to let me plug into his rig for our
> set.
>> He was a "name" and was a Carvin endorser; his picture was even in
> their
>> catalog at that time.
>>
>> He had not one item of Carvin gear on stage.
>
> I'd like to say a word about that. To me, guitars are tools. Nothing
> more, nothing less. To put them up on a pedestal as art is ok but only
> if music is not the consideration.
Jack, you would not believe what my flamey natural ES-175 looks like
when up on a stand next to my drummers vintage Tama drums in natural -
gorgeous furniture, just gorgeous.
> Yes, D'Aquisto and D'Angelico made
> some wonderful pieces of art but my favorite guitarists (Joe Pass, Pat
> Metheny, Jim Hall and even Wes Montgomery) made some of the best music
> in history playing the Gibson 175 which was the cheapie way back
> then...
Ah-ha! I knew you had the same secret longing as I... I just knew it; I
could feel it.
Greg
PS. Just kidding
Mark Guest
news:1096907972.8...@k26g2000oda.googlegroups.com...
(Jack? Comment?)
>
> Typically the "superstar" artists receive royalties on signature
> models. This applies to Scofield, Metheny, Vai, etc. Vai got $250,000
> up front on his signature model. Jimmy probably didn't get quite that
> much! :-)
Thanks for the info. $250k??!!! I guess whoever was doing the spending knew
what they were doing. Or were using other people's money.
>
> Typically in the jazz field, a signature instrument does not entail
> royalties but instead benefits both the artist and the company by
> virtue of mutual public relations efforts. Again, as you climb the
> ladder from obscurity to super stardom there are variations upon the
> theme.
There's a ladder, you say?
Best,
Bill Ribas
news:Xns95788644...@68.6.19.6...
http://www.hohnerusa.com/harmonicas.htm oh yes they do Greg . . .
Kurt Shapiro
First Alternate
> >
> > He had not one item of Carvin gear on stage.
>
> I'd like to say a word about that. To me, guitars are tools. Nothing
> more, nothing less.
Agree entirely.
To put them up on a pedestal as art is ok but only
> if music is not the consideration.
Again, agree entirely.
>
> Regarding someone endorsing but not using the gear, there are a lot of
> reasons for that. Some gear just isn't appropriate for a given
> situation. I might be endorsing a Hofner Verythin but I'm not going to
> use the guitar on a rock or fusion gig.
Then don't sign the deal.
Rbsoul
some wonderful pieces of art but my favorite guitarists (Joe Pass, Pat
Metheny, Jim Hall and even Wes Montgomery) made some of the best music
in history playing the Gibson 175 which was the cheapie way back
I agree with you totally Jack, but I would venture to guess that many of these
cats had (and have) some pretty nice guitars in their personal collections at
home, but like most of us, prefer (ed) to keep them at home and not damage
them...instead using the workhorse guitars for gigs and recording.
i bought one of the Vestax D'Angelico guitars and keep it in my living room,
like someone would keep a grand piano. It doesn't leave the house. The Jazzica
is my workhorse and goes out all the time.
Wes eventually started gigging with an L5 (as does Kevin Van Sant). That IMHO
is more than just a workhorse guitar! And is considered by some the end all in
guitar beauty. (I think it was displayed by the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston
during the Exhibit Dangerous Curves: Art of the Guitar in 2001, what a great
Exhibit that was!!)
But I have always thought that the instrument really is secondary to the music.
Give Segovia a Harmony and it's still going to sound like Segovia! :>}
Ken Willinger
http://hometown.aol.com/rbsoul/myhomepage/profile.html
GregD/OASYSCO
news:sqWdnY9TPdN...@comcast.com:
> There a appears to be some confusion here between Hohner and Hofner.
>
>
>
Not on my part.
Greg
Jack Zucker
news:tKg8d.35348$uY3.29140@fed1read03...
> Then don't sign the deal.
What deal do you think I signed? Usenet...:-)
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing "Sheets of Sound for Guitar"
Check it out at: www.sheetsofsound.net
Jack Zucker
fender jazzmaster. I don't think these guys valued 10 tops.
thomas
>
> On the other hand I don't think there are high-visibility players like
> Pass and Bruno that would endorse a product that was *bad* per se.
I played a Korean guitar with JP's name on back in the early 90s
that was very low-end. Don't remember the make. It was a student
model archtop at best. I don't know if he ever played one like
that in public. I think I heard that he did those endorsements
because he had cancer and wanted to leave something behind for
his wife to live on.
First Alternate
"Jack Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
news:XrydnXrYf-6...@adelphia.com...
> "First Alternate" <FirstAl...@yahoo.NONONSENSEcom> wrote in message
> news:tKg8d.35348$uY3.29140@fed1read03...
>
> > Then don't sign the deal.
>
> What deal do you think I signed? Usenet...:-)
>
Well, then tell me. What exactly happens when you become an endorser? What
is the agreement? What is the benefit to you, what is the benefit to the
manufacturer, and most importantly, what is the benefit to the consumer?
It is looking to me that there are implications being made with plausible
deniability, so the participants can claim they are not responsible for the
inferences made by the public. Show me where I'm wrong.
Gerry
<FirstAl...@yahoo.NONONSENSEcom> wrote:
> > Regarding someone endorsing but not using the gear, there are a lot
> > of reasons for that. Some gear just isn't appropriate for a given
> > situation. I might be endorsing a Hofner Verythin but I'm not going
> > to use the guitar on a rock or fusion gig.
>
> Then don't sign the deal.
Why not, if the guitar is "endorsable"?
There seems to be some confusion between recommending a guitar for
others and using it yourself; they aren't necessarily connected nor
need they be. A doctor can recommend an apendectomy, but not have one
himself. if a guitarist tells me about a certain feel and style he
wants to produce, I can recommenda a guitar in his price range with
those general qualities, and certainly not purchase it myself.
An endorsement doesn't mean you use the product, it means you are
associated with it and would recommend it's use to others.
Roger Sadowsky
> A recent example that made me very sceptical was our very own Jimmy
> B's defection to Hohner guitars, and then additional change to
> Sadowsky before a Hohner model had even come out. I think he hinted
> that it was because the business side of things couldn't be agreed
> with Hohner. In spite of this, he says that Bob B makes the finest
> guitars in the world...I would not be brave enough to disagree with
> that comment. If that is the case, why the move away? It seems to be a
> financial issue. In which case I have to question how sincere the
> endorsement is if it is money related...particularly if some young kid
> then goes and blows a lot of hard earned money on an instrument an
> artist endorses for no other reason than that he is paying paid to.
Jimmy addressed all of this on August 19 with this post:
The guitar endorsement story:
The 1st guitar I received sometime in 1991 was a 6 string Manhattan from Bob
Benedetto. It was a carved top arch top with a floating pick up. What can
I say...Bob makes the finest solid carved top guitars. I used that guitar
for 1 year then moved to a 7 string. After ten years Bob became associated
with Fender/Guild. Bob suggested that he try to make a laminated arch top,
about 16 inched with a built in pick up of course the guitar was top shelf.
At that time I was playing a 16" 7 string with a built in pick up. Bob made
that guitar because I had just recorded with Joey DeFrancesco and needed to
play a lot louder than I had been playing before. My style of music changed
too. I moved to a more electric sound and wrote a lot of original tunes
that required a different sound than the traditional archtop with a floating
pick up.. The whole musical landscape changed. Of course the critics all
missed it because they are deaf and can only hear whether or not someone
used a chorus etc. Very few actually know what they are hearing musically.
That's another rant.
To continue, I used that guitar for many years and finally had Bob make
me a solid body 7 string Benny. I believe I have the 1st one. That was
easier for travel and had no feedback issues and sounded totally electric,
which was fine because that's where my music was going.
It seemed only natural when the Fender Guild deal happened with Bob that
Bob and I thought that a laminate guitar with one PU, small body would be
ideal. Of course Bob made a 1st class instrument. Problem was that now I
had to deal with Fender a huge corporation.
One of the reasons for having a signature guitar is to have something
you can use all the time, that's custom made for you and that you would
HONESTLY recommend to others. Reason 2 was that I thought it would be a
great idea to have an affordable instrument that most guys could buy and
that would play great. Reason 3 is to make a small amount of money from the
sale of the guitars. This involves contracts, promotion , clinics etc. At
this point I had to deal with a very large corporation instead of just Bob
and Cindy. In a nutshell, Fender and I could not agree on the marketing
approach and the pricing of the guitar. It has nothing to do with the
quality of the instrument. I didn't feel comfortable putting my name on a
guitar that was not being marketed the way I wanted and that I felt was
priced too high. The guitar itself was great. Bob understood my situation
and I removed my name from the guitar. Fender understood as well but
thought they knew more about selling guitars than I did. Maybe they are
right. Nevertheless , we parted as friends. There are no hard feeling
between Fender and I.
Bob and Cindy will always be my dear friends. They have done so much for my
career etc. that I always will hold Bob and Cindy in high regard, both as a
maker and as human beings.
Along comes Hofner at a NAMM show. Hearing that I was no longer with
Fender they asked about designing the type of guitar that I wanted. After a
year or so of research, they came up with two very fine instruments. They
were very close to what I needed. Several more attempts were made, each one
getting better and better. We still had contract things to work out at this
point.
IN the interim I played one of Roger Sadowsky's guitars and I
immediately fell in love with it. It was a perfect match. Here was a guitar
already exactly the way I wanted while Hofner was getting close. Between
that and the business end of things, I went with Roger, it was a no
brainer.
Hofner understood the situation. I am still friends with the Hofner people,
all of them. They make great guitars and I will always give them high
praise.
Roger and I are planning a JB model, not much different from the
Sadowsky that I am playing now. There will also be JB strings somewhere
down the line and who knows what else.
I found Roger to be very thoughrough and exacting in making the guitar play
EXACTLY how I wanted. For me, I prefer the sound of a laminate guitar if you
are going to play thorugh an amp. That's the reality of playing live.
Roger's guitar, with slight modifications came out perfect. It is by far the
finest laminate guitar on the market, bar none. It does the job, has a great
accoustic sound and most importantly , it is easy to play and sounds "over
the top" when plugged into any amp. The modifictions I spoke of were scale
length, and nut width. Roger knows better than I what he changed.
Plus Roger and I hit it off personally. Bob still makes great guitars,
but so does Roger Sadowsky and Bob is an admirer of Roger's work, . Roger's
guitar fit the bill in all the ways that I mentioned. I'd be a fool not to
go with it. Everything fell into place at the right time.
I have to give Fender and Hofner a lot of credit for their understanding
of my position. Both compainies can make a great instrument, but only
Sadowsky made me a guitar that fit like a glove. There will be more info at
my site and eventually be totally updated as soon as I get some time off
from sevaral recording projects and video endeavors and the next CD( this is
the one after the solo release in November) So I am buried in several
projects simultaneously. As far as specs and pricing etc, it's best to
consult Roger. Hope this clears up all the conjecture.
I am always amazed at how important these type issues are to most
guitarists. I am fortunate to be where I am. A lot has to do with luck
and being around wonderful artitsts like Roger, Bob, and great compaines
like Hofner and Fender/Guild.
Roger Sadowsky
signature models. I never released a Signature Model until the Jim
Hall and I was convinced that would be my one and only. Although I
was not looking to do another one, I could not pass up the opportunity
to work with Jimmy Bruno.
All I can say is if either Jim or Jimmy were motivated by money, I
would be the last person they would want to work with. There is no
way I will be able to sell a fraction of the guitars that either
Fender/Guild or Hofner could.
The reason Jim and Jimmy are with me is because it is all about the
integrity of the endorsement and the quality of the instrument. If it
were about the money, I would not be able to compete with the large
companies.
Roger Sadowsky
First Alternate
> Why not, if the guitar is "endorsable"?
>
> There seems to be some confusion between recommending a guitar for
> others and using it yourself; they aren't necessarily connected nor
> need they be. A doctor can recommend an apendectomy, but not have one
> himself. if a guitarist tells me about a certain feel and style he
> wants to produce, I can recommenda a guitar in his price range with
> those general qualities, and certainly not purchase it myself.
>
> An endorsement doesn't mean you use the product, it means you are
> associated with it and would recommend it's use to others.
Thank you for validating the opinion I have always held about endorsements.
Max Leggett
wrote:
Roger, despite the fact that a gentleman can never have too many
guitars, I'm selling 3 of mine. I have gas no more. A D'Angelico
reissue will be more than enough. But damn, I sure do fancy one of
those Jim Halls. I really don't think there's another guitar out there
that I _do_ fancy - not even a Bennie excites me - but that JH model
has me inflamed. So I'll start sticking my pennies into an old jam jar
and, once that jam jar is full, you'll be the first to know. :-)
Max Leggett
From Roger Sadowsky's site: "Roger and Jim began to collaborate on a
Sadowsky model and were committed to the idea that this would have to
be a guitar that Jim would want to play, not just endorse."
Jimmy Bruno
> "Mondoslug1" <mondo...@aol.comwaht> wrote in message
> news:20041004084510...@mb-m22.aol.com...
> > Mark Guest wrote:
> >
> > >> It now appears, however, that artists also receive royalties on the
> > >> guitars sold.
The ideal situation is when you endorse a product that you actually
play. You play it because it fits your needs perfectly. And we do
get paid. How dumb do you think we are. However, money would not be
enough to cause me to endorse one product over another. the 1st thing
is you have to like it, otherwise it's BS and everyone will know it.
Last thing I want is getting an email from some kid who saved all his
money to buy a JB whatever and find out that it's no good. That would
be a nightmare. It happened to me early in my career when I didn't
know any better.
Mark Guest
news:d3087a05.04100...@posting.google.com...
> The ideal situation is when you endorse a product that you actually
> play. You play it because it fits your needs perfectly. And we do
> get paid. How dumb do you think we are. However, money would not be
> enough to cause me to endorse one product over another. the 1st thing
> is you have to like it, otherwise it's BS and everyone will know it.
> Last thing I want is getting an email from some kid who saved all his
> money to buy a JB whatever and find out that it's no good. That would
> be a nightmare. It happened to me early in my career when I didn't
> know any better.
Hi Jimmy,
As I mentioned earlier, I'm pleased that some manufacturers help support
jazz artists with endorsement deals. It's nice that you have high standards
for your deals. If every musician used similar standards, the original
poster would have nothing to complain about.
Jimmy Bruno
>
> This is not intended as an inflammatory post, but I thought it might
> be an interesting issue to talk about. I am not aiming the comments at
> any individuals, rather at the phenomenon in general as it seems to
> operate in the music business.
>
> ****** Health Warning ******
> !st no offense taken. The issue is never money with anything that I
do. You need to worry about being good or playing a good instrument.
I never base decisions on money, those decisions are always wrong. A
very wealthy individual told me that whatever you do, manufacturer or
represent, make sure it is the best that you can do ;. the the money
will follow. I have found this to always be true in my case. As far
as all the switching of guitars, I can't get into my contractual
obligations on the net but it was not about money. Some issues were
marketing, price point of the instrument, inlays , no inlays etc.
There is so much involved it's overwhelming. My tastes have also
changed in the last few years. I like a darker sound that I can only
get from a laminate guitar with a built in pick up. Dealing with
Roger Sadowsky is easy, one guy to talk with and make decisions, not
a huge company. Plus, and foremost, I love the sound of his
archtops. Does Bob make great carved top guitars? absolutely. I don't
play that type guitar anymore. The guitar that Guild and Bob were
designing was a laminate guitar. Things went south when I could not
agree with Fender( not Bob) about the marketing and pricing of the
instrument. Bob and I are sill dear friends and I speak with him
frequesntly on the ephone. Hope that answers your questions. Most
guys won't go for the money over the quality. Most players have a lot
of integrity when it comes to something like that.
I won't take a dumb gig no matter how high profile, or how much money
it pays, if I don't like the music or feel that i could not to justice
to the music itself.
There are not of lot of us left. At least for me, I'm not going to go
the sell out route.
You (no one in particular) have this idea that all jazz musicians are
poor. Nothing could be farther the truth. I do extremely well
finacailly and so do most other players that i associate with.
I;m not saying that most people are naive but I have to tell you,
getting into this jazz scene with CDS and all the other appendages
that go with it, was a giant surprise to me. Nothing was the way i
thought it would be. So it's easy to get misconceptions about the biz
and other things as well. I was a complete newbie, this is after
having been a studio musician and a sideman for almost 20 years. I
started my jazz career at 35 , I am 51. i'm still learning things
about the business end of the whole thing. There is nothing negative
about it. It's only negative if YOU make it that way. That's another
post.
HOpe that clears up your thoughts. a good thread, this is
Jack A. Zucker
>
> "Jack Zucker" <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
> news:XrydnXrYf-6...@adelphia.com...
> > "First Alternate" <FirstAl...@yahoo.NONONSENSEcom> wrote in message
> > news:tKg8d.35348$uY3.29140@fed1read03...
> >
> > > Then don't sign the deal.
> >
> > What deal do you think I signed? Usenet...:-)
> >
>
> Well, then tell me. What exactly happens when you become an endorser?
Depends on whether you're a star or not. If you're not (like myself), the
company agrees to sell you a guitar at roughly dealer cost (approximately
10% higher than ebay) <grin>. If you're a star...Well, I can't answer that
one.
> What
> is the agreement? What is the benefit to you, what is the benefit to the
> manufacturer, and most importantly, what is the benefit to the consumer?
If you go back and read some of these threads, I've answered this several
times. The benefit to me is a discounted price plus hopefully, a mention on
the manufacturer's website and possibly appearances on their behalf at
shows, advertisements, etc. It works both ways. For the consumer, how can I
answer that. Each person has to make their own evaluation. It's all apples
and oranges. If you like Jimmy's sound, you might benefit by getting a
Sadowsky, Clarus and Raezers-Edge cab. However, if you like Paul
Bollenback's sound, maybe you'd prefer a Guild Stewart through a Fender
Twin. I guess the question of consumer benefit seems pretty obvious to me.
> It is looking to me that there are implications being made with plausible
> deniability, so the participants can claim they are not responsible for
the
> inferences made by the public. Show me where I'm wrong.
Huh?!? I have no idea what you're saying. If you're claiming that as an
endorser I should assume liability or culpability should you get an
instrument you're not happy with, well that's plain ridiculous. I never got
a dime when the aftershave I bought after Pete Rose endorsed it failed to
entice all the chicks at the gigs! :-)
Jack A. Zucker
mean you exclusively use that product. Remember Britany being photographed
with a Pepsi? However, most folks *DO* use what they endorse but it doesn't
mean that they use nothing else.
George Benson helped design the GB series guitars and uses them virtually
ALL the time. Still, I've seen him playing a $50,000 D'Angelico on occasion.
Does that make me cynical? Heck no. It just means that he occasionally wants
a different sound.
A guitar is a tool. Keep repeating that to yourself. You don't marry them.
You use them to construct music. No more, no less.
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
"First Alternate" <FirstAl...@yahoo.NONONSENSEcom> wrote in message
news:D5j8d.7396$%t3.7095@lakeread01...
Mondoslug1
>> > "First Alternate" <FirstAl...@yahoo.NONONSENSEcom> wrote in message
>> It is looking to me that there are implications being made with plausible
>> deniability, so the participants can claim they are not responsible for
>the
>> inferences made by the public. Show me where I'm wrong.
>
>Huh?!? I have no idea what you're saying.
That makes three of us.
Jimmy Bruno
nothing else except for a small body electric that I played at the Blue note
"Max Leggett" <hepkatre...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4161c069....@News.sprint.ca...
Jimmy Bruno
"Ra" <use...@freetoys.com> wrote in message
news:1ic8d.236996$%n4.4...@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
> "BD" wrote
>
> > I have to question how sincere the
> > endorsement is if it is money related...particularly if some young kid
> > then goes and blows a lot of hard earned money on an instrument an
> > artist endorses for no other reason than that he is paying paid to.
>
>
>
> I pay no attention to artist endorsements.
> I find the comments in this group to be a far more valuable indicator of
value.
>
> Joe Pass would have probably played an L-5, or something like that,
> if he wasn't so underapprecaited, that he needed things like endorsement
deals.
>
> If he chose his all guitars on merit, he probably wouldn't have spent time
> playing with electrical tape covering the headstock logo.
>
>
> I think Joe Pass is the greatest... but I don't care what instrument he
endorsed.
>
>
>
> --
> best regards,
> Ra
> ----------------------------------------------------
> http://surfpick.com/wholesale
> Now... wholesale to the public
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
>
Jimmy Bruno
fits
"Roger Sadowsky" <ro...@sadowsky.com> wrote in message
news:4da46edf.04100...@posting.google.com...
Jimmy Bruno
models. all I can say it's the best money you will have ever spent. No BS.
IF you don't like that guitar, I'll give you four free lessonsnews:4161bd65....@News.sprint.ca...
Jimmy Bruno
Bill Ribas
"GregD/OASYSCO" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95789E16...@68.6.19.6...
I hide my head in shame. listen for the "DOH!"
Bill Ribas
> and I still can't type !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe we could all chip in for a typing course for Jimmy.
Gerry
<FirstAl...@yahoo.NONONSENSEcom> wrote:
> It is looking to me that there are implications being made with plausible
> deniability, so the participants can claim they are not responsible for the
> inferences made by the public. Show me where I'm wrong.
Plausible deniability of what? The public inference is that the
professional recommends that use of this guitar to the consumer public.
Not need to deny, or retain the plausibility of denial, that the
instrument is unplayable or a hindrance to the consumer. Quite the
opposite. Jesus, these are production runs of guitars, not custom-made
guitars.
I'm not sure I understand your basick vantage point. Is it that a
professsional should not endorse a production guitar that he wouldn't
pick to spend his life with?
Max Leggett
wrote:
I'm going to try to get him to try my new book: "Six Essential
Fingerings for the Jazz Typist." In fact, I'll give him a signed copy
in return for a Sadowsky Jim Hall. Wotta deal!!!!! :-)
Justin Otto
> I started my jazz career at 35
This is the single most inspirational thing I've heard all year. :-)
> this is after having been a studio musician and a sideman for almost 20
> years.
Oh darn. You spoiled it. :-(
J.
thom_j
> and I still can't type !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that I'd give ya' typin' lessons for exchange of guitar lessons
from you!! How can you be this deal Jimmy? What a deal!
What a deal! 8^)'....... wheelin' dealin' tee'..
Greger Hoel
wrote:
LOL - priceless
--
_______________________________________________
Always cross a vampire, never moon a werewolf
To reach me, swap spammers get bent with softhome
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Adler
picture of Jimmy Bruno playing the guitar it's supposed to convey to
you that if you buy the guitar you too will sound like him. The issue
is not the intention of the artist, which I believe to be pure, but how
that intention is used by the company which is usually misleading at
best.
Tom Walls
d...@danadler.com says...
(patch cord, tuner, etc)". IMHO if the buyer is so gullible as to
believe that buying a guitar endorsed by their guitar hero will make
them sound like said hero, then the money is better off in the hands of
the luthier(manufacturer, shop owner, running-dog lackey).
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
GregD/OASYSCO
@k17g2000odb.googlegroups.com:
True.
Today, online shops selling the Epi Joe Pass heavily suggest that if you
but that guitar, you, too can sound like JP. It's commercialism...
misleading? Perhaps to an extent, but that's advertising for ya.
It's true for all brands of all types of goods.. cars that make us feel
like we're free as the wind; cleaning products that free us from
housework so we can go out to dinner; fragrances that will make us as
attractive as top notch male models, creams that will make us young
again, exercise equipment that will make our bodies better than they
ever were... it goes on and on and on. Not a lick of truth to any of it,
but it's nice to romanticize that even if we can't actually be this or
that, we can buy products to at least "feel" like we're striving for
this or that.
Greg
>
> -Dan
> http://danadler.com
>
>
Jack Zucker
news:1096978772.2...@k17g2000odb.googlegroups.com...
> But that's not how the marketers use it. When Benedetto had a full-page
> picture of Jimmy Bruno playing the guitar it's supposed to convey to
> you that if you buy the guitar you too will sound like him.
I disagree. What it's supposed to convey is that if someone of Jimmy Bruno's
stature is playing the guitar, than the guitar must really be great because.
We're all supposedly intelligent adults and the marketing strategy of an
archtop guitar is not the same strategy (nor is the audience the same) as
the strategy aimed at creating an image, for example Britany drinking coke.
By the way, that ad did not imply that "you too" could be a slut if you
drank coke...
Gerry
Adler <d...@danadler.com> wrote:
> When Benedetto had a full-page picture of Jimmy Bruno playing the
> guitar it's supposed to convey to you that if you buy the guitar you
> too will sound like him.
That's true. In booze manufacturer's ads the idea is that if you drink
Canandian Club you'll be able to get women like that. Is it dishonest
or unethical to use the hot babes in such an ad, because the
implication is that you'll get laid, and you most clearly will not?
Should the woman in the ad reject the work because of the intent to
mislead potential customers? Or the photographer?
Despite the implications I don't think anybody who can pay for one of
these signature guitars would tell you outright that the believe buying
the guitar will make them sound like Bruno. Their dreams are their
own.
Nate Lamy
> ...[]...I might be endorsing a Hofner Verythin but I'm not going to
> use the guitar on a rock or fusion gig. ...[]...
> Jaz
As an aside, Jack, you should try the Verythin for rock & fusion. It
has a distinctive voice that works really well in those contexts.
- Nate
Mondoslug1
>"Dan Adler" <d...@danadler.com> wrote in message
>news:1096978772.2...@k17g2000odb.googlegroups.com...
>> But that's not how the marketers use it. When Benedetto had a full-page
>> picture of Jimmy Bruno playing the guitar it's supposed to convey to
>> you that if you buy the guitar you too will sound like him.
>
>I disagree. What it's supposed to convey is that if someone of Jimmy Bruno's
>stature is playing the guitar, than the guitar must really be great because.
I'm with ya on this.
Gerry
<mondo...@aol.comwaht> wrote:
> >I disagree. What it's supposed to convey is that if someone of Jimmy Bruno's
> >stature is playing the guitar, than the guitar must really be great because.
>
> I'm with ya on this.
Curious. It would follow, then, that any guitarist in a picture with
any guitar is endorsing that guitar.
Mondoslug1
>Bruno's
>> >stature is playing the guitar, than the guitar must really be great
>because.
>>
>> I'm with ya on this.
>
do over...can I take it back?
I guess I just mean, a guy's in an ad for a guitar...you assume he thinks it a
good guitar not - necessarily that you'll sound like him if you buy it.
Steven Rosenberg
just for marketing purposes. It's easy enough when you follow a pro to
see what gear he's using.
The fact that Jimmy Bruno's music has been changing over the years and
has prompted him to choose different instruments is very enlightening.
And remember, especially at Jimmy B's level, this is a business.
Whatever Jimmy can do to further his music -- in terms of
endorsements, appearances at trade shows, etc. -- is all part of being
a pro in today's industry. I think just about every professional
musician can learn a lot from Jimmy on how to build and maintain a
career (and one's integrity) in the difficult marketplace that now
exists.
And as far as gear goes, the members of RMMGJ show on a daily basis
how easy it is to sell gear they no longer need or want. I admire your
ability to let this stuff go instead of letting it pile up. I don't
think it's possible to fully evaluate an instrument unless you've
lived with it for awhile, and that often means buying it (if it passes
the initial sniff test, that is).
On a related topic, I heard John Pizzarelli playing (with George
Shearing, I think) WITHOUT the scatting, and his guitar (the Moll)
sounds great. Bet he's selling a lot of instruments for the maker.
ro...@sadowsky.com (Roger Sadowsky) wrote in message news:<4da46edf.04100...@posting.google.com>...
> I can understand the skepticism concerning endorsements and artist
> signature models. I never released a Signature Model until the Jim
> Hall and I was convinced that would be my one and only. Although I
> was not looking to do another one, I could not pass up the opportunity
> to work with Jimmy Bruno.
>
> All I can say is if either Jim or Jimmy were motivated by money, I
> would be the last person they would want to work with. There is no
> way I will be able to sell a fraction of the guitars that either
> Fender/Guild or Hofner could.
>
> The reason Jim and Jimmy are with me is because it is all about the
> integrity of the endorsement and the quality of the instrument. If it
> were about the money, I would not be able to compete with the large
> companies.
>
>
> Roger Sadowsky
j...@jackzucker.com
Nate Lamy wrote:
> As an aside, Jack, you should try the Verythin for rock & fusion. It
> has a distinctive voice that works really well in those contexts.
> - Nate
Mine didn't have enough sustain due to the trapeze tailpiece. I had
ordered the other model with the stop tailpiece and then a shipping
snafu occurred and I never received it. Right around that time, I
decided that the neck heavy thing was going to be a deal-breaker for me
so I never re-ordered it.
icarusi
news:K9KdnYuIvaI...@adelphia.com...
> Joe Pass was given his 175 when he got out of jail.
They only seem to do methodone courses now. Life was better back then.
Icarusi
--
remove the 00 to reply
Don Judy
"icarusi" <icar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41632b48$0$54815$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
years or so. And they gave you nothing back then, not even a bus ticket. You
stepped out the gate and were done with each other. Maybe with a few dollars
from making license plates or leather filet or milking the cows. On the
other hand, I hear they had a hell of a big band while he was in.
Don
Greger Hoel
wrote:
>
>"icarusi" <icar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:41632b48$0$54815$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
>> Jack Zucker <j...@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
>> news:K9KdnYuIvaI...@adelphia.com...
>> > Joe Pass was given his 175 when he got out of jail.
>>
>> They only seem to do methodone courses now. Life was better back then.
>>
>> Icarusi
>> --
>> remove the 00 to reply
>>
>I doubt anyone would need methadone after being in the penitentiary for 10
>years or so.
JP was in prison for 10 years?! What did he do? And seriously, do you
think heroin addicts who go down for ten years, can't score smack
inside?
Tom Walls
gre...@spammersgetbent.net says...
> >I doubt anyone would need methadone after being in the penitentiary for 10
> >years or so.
>
> JP was in prison for 10 years?! What did he do? And seriously, do you
> think heroin addicts who go down for ten years, can't score smack
> inside?
>
>
Unless they are extremely well-fixed, not enough to sustain a habit. Joe
was in Lexington IIRC, and back in those days at Lexington I think it's
extremely doubtful that Joe could have scored.
Tom Lippincott
Gerry <add...@domain.com> wrote in message
news:051020040748569391%add...@domain.com...
> In article <1096978772.2...@k17g2000odb.googlegroups.com>, Dan
> Adler <d...@danadler.com> wrote:
>
> > When Benedetto had a full-page picture of Jimmy Bruno playing the
> > guitar it's supposed to convey to you that if you buy the guitar you
> > too will sound like him.
>
> That's true. In booze manufacturer's ads the idea is that if you drink
> Canandian Club you'll be able to get women like that. Is it dishonest
> or unethical to use the hot babes in such an ad, because the
> implication is that you'll get laid, and you most clearly will not?
>
> Should the woman in the ad reject the work because of the intent to
> mislead potential customers? Or the photographer?
>
actually, I always assumed those ads were saying "our product will dull the
pain of knowing you will never be with a woman who looks like this."
--
Tom Lippincott
Guitarist, Composer, Teacher
audio samples, articles, CD's at:
http://www.tomlippincott.com
8 string guitar audio samples at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/tomlippincottmusic.htm
Max Leggett
<tomlip...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> Should the woman in the ad reject the work because of the intent to
>> mislead potential customers? Or the photographer?
>>
>actually, I always assumed those ads were saying "our product will dull the
>pain of knowing you will never be with a woman who looks like this."
I was just at the doctor's office and one of the magazines was Dance
International, ballet and whatnot. Chock full of ads by prima
ballerinas of major companies touting this brand of tutu and that
brand of shoe. Neither the tutu nor the shoe will get you into the
ABT, and there's no suggestion that they will. Ditto guitar ads - I'll
never play like Jimmy Bruno, for a host of reasons, regardless of what
guitar I might play. The fact that Jimmy likes the Sadowsky and Sco
the Ibanez doesn't imply that either will boost my playing ability.
14-year old gearheads might go for it - if I get that Death Metal
pedal then ... - but no one else does. I like Laphroaig single malt
scotch, but buying it won't make you as suave and debonair as me, and
I wouldn't suggest otherwise. :-)
thomas
>
> JP was in prison for 10 years?! What did he do? And seriously, do you
> think heroin addicts who go down for ten years, can't score smack
> inside?
JP was in a Texas prison during the 1950s. Apparently his mother
or somebody got a guitar to him while he was doing time, and
so he got a lot of practicing in.
When he got out, he joined the Synanon rehab cult. He played
there on a Jazzmaster, and cut his first few records on that
guitar. Then someone gave him the 175.
Gerry
Lippincott <tomlip...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > Should the woman in the ad reject the work because of the intent to
> > mislead potential customers? Or the photographer?
>
> actually, I always assumed those ads were saying "our product will dull the
> pain of knowing you will never be with a woman who looks like this."
Me, I have a fantasy life. Which is actually more depressing than it
sounds...
Gerry
<gre...@spammersgetbent.net> wrote:
> JP was in prison for 10 years?! What did he do?
Like Stan Getz, I believe he was in for possession of narcotics. I
don't believe he did anything remotely like 10 years in prison, but
can't verify that easily. The stock blurbs point out he "wasted a
decade". I think that relates to his big a washed-out addict as well as
his stint(s) in prison.
> And seriously, do you think heroin addicts who go down for ten years,
> can't score smack inside?
Yes, they can't score smack inside. It's very very difficult for them
to get luxuries--though it can be done if you have money and
connections. But a $100-dollar-a-day habit can not be maintained unless
you were a significant man on the outside who can pay off a long line
of guards and others to ensure you're left alone. Joe Pass wasn't that
kind of guy.
thomas
>
> actually, I always assumed those ads were saying "our product will dull the
> pain of knowing you will never be with a woman who looks like this."
Or: "Drink enough of our product, and all women will look like this."
Gerry
<tomb...@jhu.edu> wrote:
Clearly there's more marketing subtext for booze than guitars...
Bill
> In article <eev7m0l7ivac4nqkb...@4ax.com>, Greger Hoel
> <gre...@spammersgetbent.net> wrote:
>
> > JP was in prison for 10 years?! What did he do?
>
> Like Stan Getz, I believe he was in for possession of narcotics. I
> don't believe he did anything remotely like 10 years in prison, but
> can't verify that easily. The stock blurbs point out he "wasted a
> decade". I think that relates to his big a washed-out addict as well as
> his stint(s) in prison.
>
> > And seriously, do you think heroin addicts who go down for ten years,
> > can't score smack inside?
>
> Yes, they can't score smack inside. It's very very difficult for them
> to get luxuries--though it can be done if you have money and
> connections. But a $100-dollar-a-day habit can not be maintained unless
> you were a significant man on the outside who can pay off a long line
> of guards and others to ensure you're left alone. Joe Pass wasn't that
> kind of guy.
I think Joe Pass meant wasting 10 years by being on drugs. I don't
think he did jail time, just Synanon to dry out, and where he was
discovered, methinks.
Bg
David Berry
"Jimmy Bruno"
> Joe covered the headstock for a very good reason
j...@jackzucker.com
been using for years. I wanted to see if we could work out an
arrangement for me to endorse their guitars. I got a call a few days
ago from their artist's relation program director. He offered to give
me one of their guitars at about 50% off of list price. In exchange,
the proposal was that I show their guitar on the cover of my next book,
feature their guitar on my DVD and of course have a review on my
website.
The thing is that with tax factored in, I can get one of their guitars
on ebay for several hundred less than what they are offering me a new
guitar for. This is fairly typical of the deals that are offered for
lower tiered players.
GregD/OASYSCO
news:1097153445....@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Interesting, if not demoralizing. 50% off list price isn't a deal unless
it's a maker who doesn't allow discounts.
Greg
Gerry
<ott...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I think Joe Pass meant wasting 10 years by being on drugs. I don't
> think he did jail time, just Synanon to dry out, and where he was
> discovered, methinks.
He did jail time, it's what almost all the bios say. I doubt that they
are all wrong. While we're guessing, I don't think that meant a long
term. Back then you did a few years for narcotics possession. I think
the reason he wound up at the relatively new Synanon was possible as an
alternative to jail and/or a court mandated program. At that time
heroin addiction seemed a life-long problem and for awhile Synanon had
an exceptional record.
What Joe Pass "meant" I don't know. The stock 3-paragraph bio that
floats endlessly around the web says "But after serving in the
military, Pass became a drug addict, serving time in prison and
essentially wasting a decade".
It doesn't say he spent a decade in prision.