Es-165 vs Es-175
al
between these two models. (I know, people will jump in and say "get a
Heritage" or "get a Guild", but before trying those I'd like to know
more about the Gibson models since those are sort of the traditional
benchmark against which to compare similar models by other makers)
From what I can tell, the Es-165 is a 175 with a) gold hardware
instead of chrome, b) one pickup instead of two, c) a different model
pickup (is this right?), d) different tailpiece (the 60s style, rather
than the original 50s), e) different knobs, and f) "Herb Ellis"
written on the headstock instead of the little crownish thing. What
I'm not sure of: 1) other than saying "Herb Ellis", is the headstock
different? I seem to recall hearing that the "Gibson" is a decal, not
an inlay. Is this right? Is the headstock veneer the same type?
Does the 165 Headstock look nice or cheesy (assuming one can live with
it saying "Herb Ellis" (hey, all the LP guys don't seem to mind theirs
saying "Les Paul"). 2) Is the neck the same one piece mahogany, same
grade of fingerboard wood and same grade/type of fret marker inlays?
Same feel/profile? 3) Are 165s typically more flamed maple ply than
175s? The pics I've seen usually seem to be. 4) Assuming I am right
that the pickup is a different type (not a true vintage replica), does
it have a good jazz sound? 5) Does a 165 come with the same case as a
175?
Assuming the headstock looks nice, not cheesy, the pickup sounds as
good for jazz, the neck materials and profile are the same and the
case is the same, I have a hard time figuring why to spend the extra $
for a 175 when I don't use the bridge pickup anyway.
Thanks to all 165 owners/users for their help.
Art Vandelay
165 is smaller than the 175. Anyone know the specs for sure?
Brad
LarryV
Also, the ES165 is much shallower in depth than an ES175. Basically,
they're totally different guitars.
Joey Goldstein
LarryV wrote:
>
> The ES165 has a solid center block, whereas the ES175 is a hollowbody.
> Also, the ES165 is much shallower in depth than an ES175. Basically,
> they're totally different guitars.
You are very mixed up. You may be thinking of the ES135.
The 165 is identical to the 175 except that it has a single pickup (490r
whereas the 175 has a '57 Classic), old style tail piece and the
available finishes are probably somewhat different. The wood and the
dimensions are identical.
--
Joey Goldstein
Guitarist/Jazz Recording Artist/Teacher
Home Page: http://www.joeygoldstein.com
Email: <joegold AT sympatico DOT ca>
LarryV
Dotneck
> I'm certainly no expert on these models, but if I'm not mistaken, the
> 165 is smaller than the 175. Anyone know the specs for sure?
> Brad
>
>
The major difference is the pickups...a 175 has two and a 165 has only
one in the neck position. Any other difference is a minor cosmetic
distinction...
Nazodesu
<nos...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> > The ES165 has a solid center block, whereas the ES175 is a hollowbody.
> > Also, the ES165 is much shallower in depth than an ES175. Basically,
> > they're totally different guitars.
>
> You are very mixed up. You may be thinking of the ES135.
> The 165 is identical to the 175 except that it has a single pickup (490r
> whereas the 175 has a '57 Classic), old style tail piece and the
> available finishes are probably somewhat different. The wood and the
> dimensions are identical.
This is a description of my 175; single pickup, a non-fixed wood bridge
and what I assume is the "old style" tail piece--it's the same one I
see on a bona fide Herb Ellis guitar. I have no name inscription at
the top. I thought it was a 175. It's a 165...?
Dennis O'Neill
wrote:
>This is a description of my 175; single pickup, a non-fixed wood bridge
>and what I assume is the "old style" tail piece--it's the same one I
>see on a bona fide Herb Ellis guitar. I have no name inscription at
>the top. I thought it was a 175. It's a 165...?
Check the label, viewable inside the bass-side F-hole.
For a long time Gibson made both single- and double-pickup ES175s
(until the 60s I guess, but I'm not sure). Based on what you wrote
I'd guess you have an older ES175. The ES165 came along in the 90s.
And then there's always the Gibson Custom Shop, which would probably
make you a spruce-topped, 3.5" deep, fully-hollow Explorer if you
wanted one.
al
To get back to the original questions in my post, I guess I am
interested in the subjective opinions of those in the know about the
cosmetic distinction. Specifically, does the decal versus inlay
headstock look kind of cheesy? (not that I would pay almost 1000 more
for a 175 just because of this, but, not having seen one in person, it
sounds cheesy). From pics I can see what the "Herb Ellis" signature
looks like, but can't really get a good sense of how the decal versus
inlay thing plays out in person. Also, are the fretboard inlays the
same material or are they some sort of cheaper substitute? I guess I
can't figure out why it would cost almost 1000 more for an inlayed
"Gibson" versus a decal and for one less pickup and two fewer
controls. I guess I find the pricing interesting. To me, it reflects
more the fact that Gibson decided to market the HE to a lower
price-point, figuring many people would still want a "real" 175 and
pay the extra money. To me, it proves Gibson COULD make 175s and sell
them for, say, 300 more than a HE, rather than 1000 (the 300 would
cover an extra pickup, two pots, two knobs, an inlayed "gibson" I
figure), but sees a chance to cover two price points with essentially
the same product.
Mark Guest
news:mg2jauohck77r2nn5...@4ax.com...
(snip)
> And then there's always the Gibson Custom Shop, which would probably
> make you a spruce-topped, 3.5" deep, fully-hollow Explorer if you
> wanted one.
>
--
Mark Guest
JazzerWB at JahWho dot com
Joey Goldstein
It seems that Gypson is just calling the 1 pup version a 165 now.
Joey Goldstein
Gypson could be making most of their guitars for $1000.00 including the
ES 175.
> (the 300 would
> cover an extra pickup, two pots, two knobs, an inlayed "gibson" I
> figure), but sees a chance to cover two price points with essentially
> the same product.
--
Nazodesu
<dcon...@boo.net> wrote:
According to the label it *is* an ES175. I assume I must have seen
that at some time. It's serial is 100079. Have any idea what year it
may have been made?
Nazodesu
<nos...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> To me, it reflects > more the fact that Gibson decided to market the
> HE to a lower > price-point, figuring many people would still want a
> "real" 175 and > pay the extra money. To me, it proves Gibson COULD
> make 175s and sell > them for, say, 300 more than a HE, rather than
> 1000
>
> Gypson could be making most of their guitars for $1000.00 including
> the ES 175.
If Gibson could make 10 guitars each year and sell them for 20 million
dollars each, they'd be delighted. Johnny Appleseed, they ain't.
John Dahlstedt
Recently I
decided I wanted to go back to the shorter scale length and looked for
175's.
They are out there but I opted for a less expensive 165. It required
some
tune-up type stuff...fret leveling etc...(others have posted about
Gibsons
lack of doing all the little detail stuff to their newer guitars...use
search
for 165's)..and I opted to fit an ebony bridge which really opened the
sound
up significantly. The metal tune-o-matic type bridge sounded awful.
Ref the
Herb Ellis signature in the headstock...it bugged me too...nothing
personal
towards Herb, it could have been anyones name...I took a sharpie and
went over
it. Alcohol will cut it if I wanted to sell the instrument. I cut
labels off
clothing too...just a personal thing. I saw a small group play a few
weeks ago
and the guitar player had a 165 with the name blacked out also! I am
very satisfied with the playability of the 165 but there are
problems...like the
neck wants to twist slightly when tightened...it hasn't been a problem
for me,
but the lack of detail in the newer products may be the reason to seek
out
an older 175. The necks on the 50's 175's varied quite a bit. Some
tend to be
"clubbier" than others. The necks on the 165's are more consistent.