The TROLL is Busted by Russell Malone!!!
van
Russell Malone:
Richard Bornman,
I've been checking out your posts and opinions about myself, and other
players over the years. You are certainly entitled to your opinions.
But you need to be aware that everytime you point your finger at other
people, you've got three pointing back at yourself, and you open
yourself up for scrutiny. That said, I have actually heard you play
the guitar. And after hearing you, there's really not much else to
say.
Russell Malone
Joe Finn
news:96de4f38-b8f3-435e...@r19g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
Yikes!! .....joe
--
Visit me on the web www.JoeFinn.net
Or say hello via Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/?ref=home
>
jimmybruno
Russell is a master player. Don't get on his bad side.
Joe Finn
news:bbe7c64d-2cb2-4973...@a21g2000prj.googlegroups.com...
I was thinking more of a certain someome who manages to get on just about
everybody's bad side. 8-) ....joe
jimmybruno
That's who I was talking about Joe, certainly not you
sheetsofsound
Hopefully he contributes more stuff. Would love to get his point of
view on other subjects.
jimmybruno
Russell knows a lot about gear
Lord Valve
> Russell knows a lot about gear
So do I, but if you diss a pie the mods have a finger in, you'll be awarded
the Royal Order of the Boot.
Lord Valve
Lifetime Banned - The Girlyman Page
invisaman75
Everyone has right to there opinion but some one that is in the public eye (like Russell Malone) that jumps into verbal battles on a Internet forum with the many poster with "arm chair" opinions got his "work cut out" for him.
Regardless what some else says I still like Russell Malone playing but doesn't mean everyone has to like it.
335
>
> - Show quoted text -
something like that happened on this group with Henry Johnson. Some
guy was getting in Henry's face about being too much like Wes or
Benson or something to that effect, and I think HJ got into it a
little bit with the guy and then split. It's too bad. It would have
been cool to have a player like Henry posting here.
sheetsofsound
agreed. We should be cultivating guys like Russell and Henry
Greger Hoel
> something like that happened on this group with Henry Johnson. Some
> guy was getting in Henry's face about being too much like Wes or
> Benson or something to that effect, and I think HJ got into it a
> little bit with the guy and then split. It's too bad. It would have
> been cool to have a player like Henry posting here.
Nothing like that happened on this group. Check the archives. If you get
personally offended because somebody has the audacity to say that Django
is a more heard of jazz guitarist than Wes Montgomery, you should never
access Usenet.
--
Sendt med Operas revolusjonerende e-postprogram: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Tim McNamara
<96de4f38-b8f3-435e...@r19g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
van <sg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
"That one like to part my hair." - John Wayne
--
"It is not unfrequent to hear men declaim loudly upon liberty, who, if we may
judge by the whole tenor of their actions, mean nothing else by it but their
own liberty ‹ to oppress without control or the restraint of laws all who
are poorer or weaker than themselves." Samuel Adams
edisoned
He also has a great sense of humor.
Ed
pmfan57
I remember that and that's not an accurate portrayal. It was about
the respective merits of Django and Wes and a pretty subtle point was
being made by both sides. It wasn't bad at all.
335
maybe I got the HJ thing mixed up with someone else. I was under the
impression that Henry checked out of here due to some negative stuff
that got thrown at him.
Chickenhead
If someone has Malone's e-mail address, it might be worth an e-mail to him
to verify identity of the poster.
Could be another "George" or something like that. It might even be Borman
himself!
Chickenhead
- Chiknhed.
"Chickenhead" <kuNOrtSPAMs...@YOUhoVERYtmail.MUCHcom> wrote in
message news:ika302$elo$1...@news.albasani.net...
RB
This stuff makes me laugh. First of all the only time I have ever been
"busted" on the 'net for anything, was when a friend posted my spoof
videos at AAJ, lauding them as "great, unsung etc etc", and Holger
called me on it.
I was very embarrassed, and it was my vanity that allowed them to
remain on AAJ...That's being "busted".
My various comments thru the aeons here or at any other net site are
there w/ my full knowledge. They are retrievable. This is something I
have known since the start....
I have zero to hide. I have my opinions, and they are honest and
uninformed at times, and probably contradictory too, but I stand by
them... I also have changed my mind about certain strongly held ideas.
You know, like they way that ALL humans behave, including Russell and
Van.
I always go out of my way to state that I, unlike a lot of people it
seems, am able to separate the man/woman from their music. I may love
their music (Getz) but think the guy is an a-hole or vice versa. This
is what adults do...
The difference is that I accord other people the same latitude in
their opinions as I allow myself. People talk shite, at times, other
times they vacillate, other times they joke. This I know, and expect
in humans. Only children expect airbrushed black and white.
I am hardly "busted"...."Busted" is for playgrounds and schoolyards,
and I am an adult....Funny stuff!
sheetsofsound
he did. I spoke to him about it. It was a lack of respect...
Tom Walls
> he did. I spoke to him about it. It was a lack of respect...
Lack of respect comes cheap around here. I get it all the time, but I
don't let it drive me away. I let it fester as a deep personal grudge
against the guilty party, hoping one day to retaliate in kind.
Joe Finn
news:84f293de-9af4-4b81...@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com...
I recall hearing him for the first time on those early Harry Connick albums.
He has been recording as a leader since 1992. Still in his 40's I believe he
has developed into one of the greatest players of his generation. He brings
a strong sense of the tradition and a high level of musicality and swing to
his recordings. His solo rendition of "What a Friend We Have in Jesus" still
knocks me out. He also did some stuff on the Billy Strayhorn documentary
with Dianne Reeves which is amazing. His recorded output is a substantial
body of work at this point and I think it will continue to hold up very
well; very well indeed.
And if his facebook remarks are any indication Russell could also find work
as a comedian! Some of his posts are hilarious! .................joe
sheetsofsound
involved if you didn't criticize other pros on a public forum. It's
not just about being an adult, it's a matter of respect to folks who
are out there trying to play publicly. I know that you feel some folks
are getting undue accolades but so what? Just let it slide. You do
have much to contribute so focus on the positive things you have to
offer.
Klatu Verata Necktie
The trouble with this is that it may lead to an Amen chorus discussion
forum. The site would be completely irrelevant if one were lambasted
for giving an honest opinion in a thread titled, "What do you think of
such and such player?". I do agree, however, that one should always
try to be as polite and thoughtful as possible in one's discussions.
paul
>
> The trouble with this is that it may lead to an Amen chorus discussion
> forum. The site would be completely irrelevant if one were lambasted
> for giving an honest opinion in a thread titled, "What do you think of
> such and such player?". I do agree, however, that one should always
> try to be as polite and thoughtful as possible in one's discussions.
+1, agree 100%. I recently read art taylor's awesome book, "notes and
tones" and one of the questions he asks everyone interviewed is what
they think of criticisms of their playing?
I definitely understand the choice not to publicly criticize others,
but I am mystified by folks thinking it's wrong for anyone to do.
jack, do you also feel that restaurant critics, record reviewers, and
everyone else that does similar things should also only write positive
reviews?
at the end of the day this is the internet, and people are going to
say all manner of things and anyone who can't get used to that is not
going to enjoy interacting with others via the internet very much.
--paul
Chickenhead
It's worthy of mention that RB uses his real name and has clips all over the
place, so calling RB a "troll" seems way off base. RB may be disrespectful,
brutal, obnoxious, etc., but he's no troll. He's also got a wicked sense of
humor and plays his ass off.
I really hate to see a player of Malone's caliber get chased away. We
definitely do NOT want to chase away players on that level. We run the risk
of being an Amen chorus, but on the converse we risk being a bunch of
irrelevant hobby-rockers because we've chased away all the name pros. Guys
like Malone deserve a lot of respect. I don't blame them for wanting to
have nothing to do with a bunch of wannabe clowns who don't give up the
respect someone like Malone has earned and deserves.
No easy answers on this one.
"paul" <pcsa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2cef1763-3bb9-47a0...@r19g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
Steven Bornfeld
Steven Bornfeld
>
> This stuff makes me laugh. First of all the only time I have ever been
> "busted" on the 'net for anything, was when a friend posted my spoof
> videos at AAJ, lauding them as "great, unsung etc etc", and Holger
> called me on it.
> I was very embarrassed, and it was my vanity that allowed them to
> remain on AAJ...That's being "busted".
>
> My various comments thru the aeons here or at any other net site are
> there w/ my full knowledge. They are retrievable. This is something I
> have known since the start....
> I have zero to hide. I have my opinions, and they are honest and
> uninformed at times, and probably contradictory too, but I stand by
> them... I also have changed my mind about certain strongly held ideas.
> You know, like they way that ALL humans behave, including Russell and
> Van.
Why would you stand by "uninformed, contradictory opinions"--and
publicly acknowledge it?
Just curious...
Steve
>
> I always go out of my way to state that I, unlike a lot of people it
> seems, am able to separate the man/woman from their music. I may love
> their music (Getz) but think the guy is an a-hole or vice versa. This
> is what adults do...
>
> The difference is that I accord other people the same latitude in
> their opinions as I allow myself. People talk shite, at times, other
> times they vacillate, other times they joke. This I know, and expect
> in humans. Only children expect airbrushed black and white.
>
> I am hardly "busted"...."Busted" is for playgrounds and schoolyards,
> and I am an adult....Funny stuff!
Steven Bornfeld
>
> +1, agree 100%. I recently read art taylor's awesome book, "notes and
> tones" and one of the questions he asks everyone interviewed is what
> they think of criticisms of their playing?
>
> I definitely understand the choice not to publicly criticize others,
> but I am mystified by folks thinking it's wrong for anyone to do.
> jack, do you also feel that restaurant critics, record reviewers, and
> everyone else that does similar things should also only write positive
> reviews?
>
> at the end of the day this is the internet, and people are going to
> say all manner of things and anyone who can't get used to that is not
> going to enjoy interacting with others via the internet very much.
>
> --paul
>
Of course people are going to say what they will say. But RB is not a
professional reviewer, he's a professional musician. You guys have
enough people sniping at your livelihoods on the outside. And many of
you know each other, whether professionally or on this ng for many
years. I've seen a lot of mutual support and even love here.
If someone puts up clips and asks for honest opinions, they usually get
them. Most of the comments are constructive. Telling someone they have
"bad time" is not constructive (unless you have a very specific example
and a way to improve--and maybe not even then).
Yeah, I can respect someone as a musician, and revile them as people.
But if you were a club owner, talent agent or in any position to give a
gig to someone, whom would you rather hire? (obviously, there have been
monster players so important that they can get away with being
distasteful and worse, but how many are there?)
Charlie Sheen
sheetsofsound
you've totally missed the point. I never said we should turn into an
amen bro forum but going into the middle of a barney kessell thread
and saying he doesn't swing or doing the same thing in a Tal Farlow or
Jimmy Raney thread is not only silly (after all, all 3 of those guys
gigged with Bird) but is a deliberate attempt at trolling IMO. There's
absolutely no other reason to do that. And not only that but as a pro
musician, how can you not see how that would hurt your own career? And
to answer Paul, the latter is the difference between a critic and a
player.
Tim McNamara
<a8fc7b80-9e2c-4a0c...@w7g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
sheetsofsound <jackz...@gmail.com> wrote:
Although when the pro in question is an inveterate jackass towards other
pros and an inflated opinion of himself, there is a certain satisfaction
when someone really heavy comes along and sets him back on his heels.
Tom Walls
> This is a really great and delicate issue.
>
> It's worthy of mention that RB uses his real name and has clips all over
> the place, so calling RB a "troll" seems way off base. RB may be
> disrespectful, brutal, obnoxious, etc., but he's no troll.
This is where you're wrong. Making deliberately provocative comments to
inflame the discussion is precisely trolling. Anonymity is a separate
issue. What's more, RB has owned up to trolling. He gets a kick out of
his "outlaw" status. God save us. There's nothing in the world to stop
him from straightening up and joining the conversation and showing a
little courtesy, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
Bob R.
> at the end of the day this is the internet, and people are going to
> say all manner of things and anyone who can't get used to that is not
> going to enjoy interacting with others via the internet very much.
>
That sums it up. If you can't tolerate differences of opinion,
criticism, etc., Usenet is not the place for you. Nobody gets "chased
away" from a discussion group; they decide to participate or not. If
you expect to be unanimously revered or to have your opinions accepted
unquestioningly by all, disappointment surely awaits. Start a fan club
page instead.
sheetsofsound
sorry but i disagree. Excuses for poor behavior are excuses. Doesn't
matter whether it's on the internet or face to face.
Bob R.
I'm not offering excuses for poor behavior. I'm acknowledging that
it's a fact of life and that the internet has its share.
sheetsofsound
To quote you, "ok, nevermind". ;)
Dan Adler
I agree with that. I think people's livelihoods are on the line. The
people here are all connoisseurs and understand that we are splitting
hairs on the end of a pin, but someone could do a google search on an
album and decide not to buy it based on that - which I don't think is
anyone's intent. I personally don't believe in negative reviews. I
think if something is bad, just ignore it. It hurts enough to be
ignored. Most of the jazz industry conducts itself that way. You will
rarely hear a musician or a respectable jazz critic say something bad
about someone else. Downbeat is the only exception - they actually
write these stinging negative reviews, and I stopped reading it
because of that.
BTW, in real life, RB is the sweetest and most polite person you could
ever meet - a classic case of DrJ&MrH. The two of us actually met RM
together a few years ago in NY, and they shook hands and had a cordial
talk. I'm pretty sure RM was aware of what RB had written about him at
that point, and he had no hard feelings. In fact, as I recall, RB felt
embarrassed by how nice RM was to him, and I thought he had sworn off
negative personal attacks at that point, but I guess he still
dabbles...
Lord Valve
> On Feb 26, 12:33 pm, sheetsofsound <jackzuc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > As a professional musician, I still think it would be better for all
> > involved if you didn't criticize other pros on a public forum. It's
> > not just about being an adult, it's a matter of respect to folks who
> > are out there trying to play publicly. I know that you feel some folks
> > are getting undue accolades but so what? Just let it slide. You do
> > have much to contribute so focus on the positive things you have to
> > offer.
>
> I agree with that. I think people's livelihoods are on the line.
Doubtful.
> The people here are all connoisseurs and understand that we are splitting
> hairs on the end of a pin, but someone could do a google search on an
> album and decide not to buy it based on that - which I don't think is
> anyone's intent.
Decide not to buy it based on one negative review?
Google's gonna give plenty of hits...you assume the one
negative review is going to be the top hit? And the only
one that gets read? Besides...the way music is marketed
now, you can almost always hear a sample of every tune
on the disc (or in the download), so I don't see how a
negative review is going to change anyone's tastes.
> I personally don't believe in negative reviews.
Ah, ok...
So you read only positive reviews, convinced yourself
it was what you wanted and went right out and bought
a Pinto... ;-) (BTW - I had a Pinto. It never blew up,
and it ran like a top right up until my old lady forgot
to add oil for about six months. Siezed up tighter'n
the proverbial nun's, um, well, you know...)
> I think if something is bad, just ignore it. It hurts enough to be
> ignored. Most of the jazz industry conducts itself that way.
There's a jazz industry?
Damn...when did that happen? Far as I can see,
it's snobs vs. nerds, with the snobs slightly in
the ascendancy. Not that there's anything *wrong*
with that....
> You will
> rarely hear a musician or a respectable jazz critic say something bad
> about someone else.
Indeed.
Americans, programmed by the PC leftist media,
have largely lost the ability to judge, to discriminate,
to take a stand. We're (ok, "we're" doesn't include me)
scared to death we'll offend someone. <shrug>
> Downbeat is the only exception - they actually
> write these stinging negative reviews, and I stopped reading it
> because of that.
Really?
I mean, no shit - really? Hell, I have Downbeats
back to the late fifties when I started reading
it, and I can remember reading a review of
a Trane gig one of their writers attended. He
said something like "Man, he blew 45 minutes
of C minor ninths. Boring!" Hell, maybe it was!
So I guess it's OK by you if I don't read the New
York Times because it's full of commie bullshit. ;-)
> BTW, in real life, RB is the sweetest and most polite person you could
> ever meet - a classic case of DrJ&MrH. The two of us actually met RM
> together a few years ago in NY, and they shook hands and had a cordial
> talk. I'm pretty sure RM was aware of what RB had written about him at
> that point, and he had no hard feelings.
Awwww....ain't that sweet?
> In fact, as I recall, RB felt
> embarrassed by how nice RM was to him, and I thought he had sworn off
> negative personal attacks at that point, but I guess he still
> dabbles...
Well, there's chops involved in being an asshole.
It's high art, see? Not just anyone can do it
*well*, y'know. Some folks have made a
career of it...Don Rickles, Redd Foxx, cats
like that. Hell, one of the biggest assholes
on the planet just got elected mayor of Chicago.
Go figure.
Lord Valve
"I'm not an asshole, but I *play* one on the Internet." - Lord Valve
Mr Maj6th
wrote:
That sounds like the attitudes of supporters of the trusts and
consortiums of the late nineteenth century, or the Wall Street moguls
that brought on our current economic situations.
How far does one go with this; no critique of any creative endeavor?
Then one must define creative; economically, socially, philosophical.
If I feel that I sense a flim-flam situation in any endeavor, I will
speak out. I dislike hyperbole and/or social manipulation for
personal enrichment. Speaking out forces the "great unwashed" to
intellectually rationalize their collective or personal impressions,
and avoids knee-jerk subjective philosophies.
One man's observation after two glasses of Merlot and no gig tonight,
and I might be wrong
.
Maj6th
sheetsofsound
Again, you miss the point. Nobody's saying you just uniformly say
everything is glorious.
What I'm talking about is acrimoniously dismissals of some of th
egiants of the jazz world (i.e. dissing pass, kessel, raney, farlow).
You can discuss strengths and weakness and say you notice Wes was
rushing on 4 and 6 etc, but when you make a statement saying raney or
kessel or farlow didn't swing you're either:
a) Trolling
b) Ignorant
And again, it's one thing to honestly discuss some of these issues
privately but to put them on usenet?!? Sorry, I just don't think it's
good form.
Mr Maj6th
"Again" I miss the point? Would you please inform me of the "first"
point I missed?
Since I missed the first point, of course, I, by definition, must not
be aware of it.
Maj6th
sheetsofsound
You're raising a strawman argument as are several others on this
thread. Nobody said to heap unwarranted praise on everyone. Anyway, no
need to reply. I'm just repeating myself here and you're in a
sarcastic mood.
Gerry
>>> And again, it's one thing to honestly discuss some of these issues
>>> privately but to put them on usenet?!? Sorry, I just don't think it's
>>> good form.
>>
>> "Again" I miss the point? Would you please inform me of the "first"
>> point I missed?
>
> You're raising a strawman argument as are several others on this
> thread. Nobody said to heap unwarranted praise on everyone. Anyway, no
> need to reply. I'm just repeating myself here and you're in a
> sarcastic mood.
The reference to a logical fallacy called "straw man" is cited
incorrectly so often that it has come to mean "me no like" in rmmgj
parlance. For reference by those who may be confused regarding its
usage:
"A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy
based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a
straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by
substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent
proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having
actually refuted the original position."
--
-- Gerry
Mr Maj6th
I resent your reply to my post. Not only does it demean and impugn my
post by starting out, "again, you miss the point," it implies I don't
understand the impetus and contents of my own post and sets your
opinion up as the absolute criterion. In addition, it explicitly
states that I have not understood other points as well, without
pointing to examples. There is no reason for someone to reply with
this confrontational tenor.
I have also noticed that more and more here, that if someone disagrees
with a reply to their posts, they dismiss the reply by attributing it
to a "troll," rather than rationally explaining their own position;
much like a theologian who rather than explaining a moral dilemma,
says, "That's the way God wants it."
Maj6th
ES175_Player
dis other people over their passions is beyond me. Every player on
this forum, has put in untold hours practicing the 6 stringed lady.
Sure there's some things I hear that I don't particualry enjoy, but I
always keep it in mind, that the guy playing it digs the hell out of
it. And a lot of things grow after time. 1st time I heard Chet Baker
scat sing "Just Friends" I cringed. But after awhile it really grew on
me. And to read some of this stuff lately around here, makes me
wonder. Especially when you hear guys claiming about Bruno's lack of
technique and articulation, or the stuff about Malone. Makes me wonder
if there's something wrong with my ears when I hear those comments..
Tim McNamara
<76fd2817-a300-4d3b...@v31g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>,
Dan Adler <d...@danadler.com> wrote:
> BTW, in real life, RB is the sweetest and most polite person you
> could ever meet - a classic case of DrJ&MrH.
Wow.
Tim McNamara
Gerry <add...@domain.com> wrote:
Sheets was using the term correctly, then.
Mr Maj6th
I would prefer honest well-informed constructive critique over
Pollyanna's and platitudes from a group of sycophants in an ol' boy's
network any time; but that's just sarcastic old me.
(Three glasses of Merlot!)
Maj6th
Paul
It's a free country dude. If someone doesn't like Tal, and
expresses it, tough. That won't stop fans of Tal from enjoying
him...and in fact, it may even pull in new fans!
All news is good news. If I say, "X guitarist sucks donkey
balls!",
you can bet there are people who are gonna Youtube "X", just to
see if they agree or not!!
The WORST response would be no response at all.....
So, stop being so dishonest, and tell everyone what you
really think about their videos....it's the only way they are
gonna get better!!!
Mr Maj6th
Thanks, good post.
You must expand "me no like" to the response, Troll, as well. I see
your not working tonight as well.
Maj6th
Mr Maj6th
wrote:
I think people get confused and think just because it is said, it may
be true and could violate their beliefs. It's only when there may be
a question of truth do individuals react; Nobody runs down the street
screaming, "the sun will rise in the east tomorrow." A rose, is a
rose, is a rose........
'Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.'
Keats
Maj6th
Gerry
If you don't like a genius guitarist/demi-god/cultural icon, or you
think it's a bad track, just say explicitly why you think it lacks
merit. If you can only say "it sucks", doesn't swing, isn't hip,
something vague, well it's not really a discussion, is it? Why would
one bother to counter that with "YOU suck!" That isn't one iota better.
I find that all the topics that go into the trash start when the topic
turns to the participants. That will ALWAYS sabotage a discussion; it's
the quickest route.
If you disagree with someone's view, try to do it like an adult,
without calling them a dick or a douchebag. And try to do it without
phrases like, "Maybe you are unable to understand", or "If that's okay
with you," or "people like you" or the all-important clarification
between "professionals" and lower order mammals. That's just goading.
People in the real world bite their tongue and 99% of time can manage
to carry on in life.
So we have flame-bait; Kenny Burrell is boring. But to then call the
flame-baiter a douchebag, bird-dog their every message, or start new
topics to complain about them, that too is flame-bait. Both are
mutually unjustifiable. As Dad would say "I don't care who started it,
you're both in trouble!"
If people are disrepesctful--ignore them. The number of screaming
matches would descend to zero, instead of comprising about a third of
the activity here.
Civility. It's not a new concept.
--
-- Gerry
Paul
Yes, you would be amazed how effective ignoring someone
who is trying to bait you into a flame war can be.
Life on NGs is so much better when you limit your arguments to
one or two posts!
Bottomline: Let the other asshole have the last word!!!!
TD
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 22:28:27 -0800 (PST), Paul <quiller...@gmail.com>
>
> - Show quoted text -
"Nobody runs down the street
screaming, "the sun will rise in the east tomorrow." A rose, is a
rose, is a rose......."
Wait a minute...I saw a guy yesterday on 8th Ave yelling out those
very same words followed by "California or bust!"
Too earthly ye are for my sport;
There's a beverage brighter and clearer.
Instead of a piriful rummer,
My wine overbrims a whole summer...
Keats
-TD
sheetsofsound
yes and I used the term correctly putupkin.
The strawman in this case is the argument that folks should only talk
in glowing accolades about everyone. Nobody ever said that.
Bill Williams
sheetsofsound
general. The negativity just astounds me.
TD
> This Keats dude who keeps putting up his stuff using regular posters' names is an obvious TROLL!
Troll sat alone on his seat of stone,
And munched and mumbled a bare old bone;
For many a year he had gnawed it near,
For meat was hard to come by.
Done by! Gum by!
In a cave in the hills he dwelt alone,
And meat was hard to come by.
Tolkien
-TD
Paul
> This whole thread reeks of what is wrong with internet chat forums in
> general. The negativity just astounds me.
Yes, this is why humanity may not be worth saving!
It's a downward spiral, and it's only exacerbated by
the fact that words can be too easily misunderstood.
People naturally assume you meant the worst, and it
goes downhill from there.
I'm actually very cool in this NG, because of all the
cool advice that I've gotten here. So I let flame wars
die out if I can.
But you cannot be too nice anywhere!
Believe me, I've tried to be a nice person
(in the in-person world too), and people just
stomp all over you! It's horrible!
But the bottom line is: An Artist MUST
have a nice, thick skin to protect them.....it's
absolutely essential. There is just no way you
can please everyone. There will ALWAYS be
people who dislike your work.....so fucking what?
Tom Walls
>
> But the bottom line is: An Artist MUST
> have a nice, thick skin to protect them.....it's
> absolutely essential. There is just no way you
> can please everyone. There will ALWAYS be
> people who dislike your work.....so fucking what?
>
That's easy to say, but, in my experience, artists hate that shit. Maybe
they would benefit from the thick skin but... are we made of stone?
sheetsofsound
> On 2/27/11 9:09 AM, Paul wrote:
>
>
>
> > But the bottom line is: An Artist MUST
> > have a nice, thick skin to protect them.....it's
> > absolutely essential. There is just no way you
> > can please everyone. There will ALWAYS be
> > people who dislike your work.....so fucking what?
>
> That's easy to say, but, in my experience, artists hate that shit.
yes, I think this has been demonstrated over and over.
Tim McNamara
Gerry <add...@domain.com> wrote:
> Civility. Honestly, it's not that difficult.
>
> If you don't like a genius guitarist/demi-god/cultural icon, or you
> think it's a bad track, just say explicitly why you think it lacks
> merit. If you can only say "it sucks", doesn't swing, isn't hip,
> something vague, well it's not really a discussion, is it? Why would
> one bother to counter that with "YOU suck!" That isn't one iota
> better.
>
> I find that all the topics that go into the trash start when the
> topic turns to the participants. That will ALWAYS sabotage a
> discussion; it's the quickest route.
>
> If you disagree with someone's view, try to do it like an adult,
> without calling them a dick or a douchebag. And try to do it without
> phrases like, "Maybe you are unable to understand", or "If that's
> okay with you," or "people like you" or the all-important
> clarification between "professionals" and lower order mammals. That's
> just goading. People in the real world bite their tongue and 99% of
> time can manage to carry on in life.
>
> So we have flame-bait; Kenny Burrell is boring. But to then call the
> flame-baiter a douchebag, bird-dog their every message, or start new
> topics to complain about them, that too is flame-bait. Both are
> mutually unjustifiable. As Dad would say "I don't care who started
> it, you're both in trouble!"
"But Dad, he hit me back first!"
> If people are disrepesctful--ignore them. The number of screaming
> matches would descend to zero, instead of comprising about a third of
> the activity here.
>
> Civility. It's not a new concept.
--
Tim McNamara
Tom Walls <tomw...@gmail.com> wrote:
An artist- at least a good one- puts themselves on the line with their
work. Art isn't something they do, it's something they are. Of course
they are often going to be hurt by criticism. If you develop too much
of a shell, it affects your art negatively.
TD
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes, the kids say that in Scotland.
-TD
Joe Finn
"van" <sg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d773f80f-0d7d-4870...@dw8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 26, 10:04 pm, sheetsofsound <jackzuc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 26, 9:58 pm, Mr Maj6th <maj...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 18:12:16 -0800 (PST), Dan Adler <d...@danadler.com>
>
> > >On Feb 26, 12:33 pm, sheetsofsound <jackzuc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> As a professional musician, I still think it would be better for all
> > >> involved if you didn't criticize other pros on a public forum. It's
> > >> not just about being an adult, it's a matter of respect to folks who
> > >> are out there trying to play publicly. I know that you feel some
> > >> folks
> > >> are getting undue accolades but so what? Just let it slide. You do
> > >> have much to contribute so focus on the positive things you have to
> > >> offer.
>
> privately but to put them on usenet?!? Sorry, I just don't think it's
>
> - Show quoted text -
>>>I pretty much agree with most of this. To ENTIRELY dismiss a player
>>>who has played on literally hundreds of jazz records because you think
>>>they have bad time, don't swing, have a poor time feel,etc... is
>>>subjective to the point that it shouldn't be aired on a public forum.
>>>They played on all those records because musicians knew they could
>>>play(not because some music business dickhead thought they could make
>>>a ton of money appealing to tone deaf 13 year-olds).
>>>As far as other players are concerned, RB has pulled the same crap,
>>>which is downright cruel and sadistic, especially if it's someone in
>>>the NG.
In spite of the cruelty and sadism, I find it refreshing indeed to see
someone emphatically proclaiming their adulthood. 8-) It's something you
don't see everyday: a real newsgroup moment!!
This has restored my flagging faith in humanity; at least for the time
being. <sigh>
Are we taking nominations for thread of the year yet? .....joe
--
Visit me on the web www.JoeFinn.net
Or say hello via Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/?ref=home
Gerry
> The strawman in this case is the argument that folks should only talk
> in glowing accolades about everyone. Nobody ever said that.
You are correct; I misidentified.
--
-- Gerry
TD
Yea Gerry, Albeit perhaps for the sake of your own momentum, I have
often noticed that you sometimes tend to merely grab at straws.
-TD
Paul
Artist also hate constructive criticism? Some of it
is legitimate, and should be listened to.
Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.....
As for the insidious, truly malicious attacks on
someone's work out of sheer jealousy by the author,
there ain't much you can do about it.....hence the
thick skin. You can also be selective about what you
chose to read.
Tom Walls
>
>
> Artist also hate constructive criticism? Some of it
> is legitimate, and should be listened to.
>
> Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.....
>
> As for the insidious, truly malicious attacks on
> someone's work out of sheer jealousy by the author,
> there ain't much you can do about it.....hence the
> thick skin. You can also be selective about what you
> chose to read.
Do you really think that this thread is about constructive criticism?
Paul
> In article <ikdnie$u4...@four.albasani.net>,
> Tom Walls <tomwa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 2/27/11 9:09 AM, Paul wrote:
>
> > > But the bottom line is: An Artist MUST have a nice, thick skin to
> > > protect them.....it's absolutely essential. There is just no way
> > > you can please everyone. There will ALWAYS be people who dislike
> > > your work.....so fucking what?
>
> > That's easy to say, but, in my experience, artists hate that shit.
> > Maybe they would benefit from the thick skin but... are we made of
> > stone?
>
> An artist- at least a good one- puts themselves on the line with their
> work. Art isn't something they do, it's something they are. Of course
> they are often going to be hurt by criticism. If you develop too much
> of a shell, it affects your art negatively.
>
Attitude can be more important than talent.
Benoit David, who replaced John Anderson of
the band Yes, said that he doesn't need a thick
skin....people are free to either like or dislike his
work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRffqvs5VQw
jazzylover59
line, and the initial post.
After I researched the original post on "The Gear Page," I realized
that some contributors here may not be aware that the words of Richard
Bornman on that particular thread was initially a criticism of a
young, up-and-coming jazz guitarist, Dan Wilson. Someone I am very
familiar with, and am aware that Russell supports wholeheartedly.
I believe that Russell finally piped in after that "attack" (and I do
call it an attack) on Dan's style of playing. Mr. Bornman basically
stated that Dan is not going anywhere with his music if he continues
to play the way he does (with George Benson licks ~ puleez), which I
think is a terribly negative and ignorant thing to state, whether it
be his opinion or not. I totally agree with Jack on these words of
opinionated and disrespectful postings.
I have also read posts on other blogs/forums by Mr. Bornman from years
past, and he has not changed at all in the manner in which he shares
his opinions. He may be a nice guy in person, but from what I have
read, he does not share or contribute in a positive manner. He rather
alienates himself, speaking from a corner of the room all by himself,
so-to-speak. Most of us see him for what he is, and he will not
change. He will continue to embarrass and expose himself and his
opinions. That is all they are: opinions.
It is posters like Mr. Bornman that have ultimately turned off players
of Mr. Malone's stature and abilities from participating in any forum.
I do not necessarily agree that Russell should have stated what he
did, when he did, and why he did, mainly because he probably has no
intention to ever participate in a guitar forum on a regular basis. As
much as I respect the guy, I don't appreciate people throwing their
weight around based on their position in life.
Dan Wilson, on the other hand, and his music can stand up for himself.
Whatever Mr. Bornman contributed on that initial thread, I totally
disregard, because I don't feel he has a right to say what Dan should
be playing, or where he should be going in his music. Dan has to
decide that for himself.
Mr. Malone can keep playing his beautiful music, his way, and
entertaining us with his jokes as well. As he has frequently stated,
"Noone will every play like Russell Malone, except Russell Malone."
~~~~~~~~~~
Kandie Le Britain Webster in Washington State ~ jazzylover59
"Live Life And Play Music Like It's Your Last Day On Earth. One Day
You'll Be Right." ~ Russell Malone, Quote on "Playground" (MAXJAZZ,
2004)
Paul
> In article <ikdnie$u4...@four.albasani.net>,
>
> > On 2/27/11 9:09 AM, Paul wrote:
>
> > > But the bottom line is: An Artist MUST have a nice, thick skin to
> > > protect them.....it's absolutely essential. There is just no way
> > > you can please everyone. There will ALWAYS be people who dislike
> > > your work.....so fucking what?
>
> > That's easy to say, but, in my experience, artists hate that shit.
> > Maybe they would benefit from the thick skin but... are we made of
> > stone?
>
> An artist- at least a good one- puts themselves on the line with their
> work. Art isn't something they do, it's something they are. Of course
> they are often going to be hurt by criticism. If you develop too much
> of a shell, it affects your art negatively.
>
Attitude can be more important than talent.
Paul
Well, we are talking about it right now, right?
I haven't read the comments by the "RB" on
Malone.........
Mondoslug
> On Feb 27, 10:49 am, Tom Walls <tomwa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2/27/11 12:32 PM, Paul wrote:
>
> > > Artist also hate constructive criticism? Some of it
> > > is legitimate, and should be listened to.
>
> > > Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.....
>
> > > As for the insidious, truly malicious attacks on
> > > someone's work out of sheer jealousy by the author,
> > > there ain't much you can do about it.....hence the
> > > thick skin. You can also be selective about what you
> > > chose to read.
>
> > Do you really think that this thread is about constructive criticism?
I wish Clapton would lose the Strat & Fender Amp & get back to playing
a real fucking guitar & amp...Gibson & Marshall.....
oops. Wrong thread!
Greger Hoel
<jackz...@gmail.com>:
> On Feb 25, 8:42 pm, 335 <335pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 25, 6:56 pm, pmfan57 <jwrag...@aol.com> wrote:
>> > On Feb 25, 5:06 pm, sheetsofsound <jackzuc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > On Feb 25, 4:58 pm, 335 <335pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > something like that happened on this group with Henry Johnson.
>> Some
>> > > > guy was getting in Henry's face about being too much like Wes or
>> > > > Benson or something to that effect, and I think HJ got into it a
>> > > > little bit with the guy and then split. It's too bad. It would
>> have
>> > > > been cool to have a player like Henry posting here.
>>
>> > > agreed. We should be cultivating guys like Russell and Henry
>>
>> > I remember that and that's not an accurate portrayal. It was about
>> > the respective merits of Django and Wes and a pretty subtle point was
>> > being made by both sides. It wasn't bad at all.
>>
>> maybe I got the HJ thing mixed up with someone else. I was under the
>> impression that Henry checked out of here due to some negative stuff
>> that got thrown at him.
>
> he did. I spoke to him about it. It was a lack of respect...
Points were made that Django was more copied by guitar players than Wes.
Johnson claimed it was "fact, not opinon" that Wes was more copied than
Django. Rmmgj not being an amen choir, somebody disagreed. That's some
awful lack of respect, yeah.
--
Sendt med Operas revolusjonerende e-postprogram: http://www.opera.com/mail/
sheetsofsound
> På Sat, 26 Feb 2011 07:24:57 +0100, skrev sheetsofsound
>
>
>
> > On Feb 25, 8:42 pm, 335 <335pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Feb 25, 6:56 pm, pmfan57 <jwrag...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> > On Feb 25, 5:06 pm, sheetsofsound <jackzuc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > On Feb 25, 4:58 pm, 335 <335pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > something like that happened on this group with Henry Johnson.
> >> Some
> >> > > > guy was getting in Henry's face about being too much like Wes or
> >> > > > Benson or something to that effect, and I think HJ got into it a
> >> > > > little bit with the guy and then split. It's too bad. It would
> >> have
> >> > > > been cool to have a player like Henry posting here.
>
> >> > > agreed. We should be cultivating guys like Russell and Henry
>
> >> > I remember that and that's not an accurate portrayal. It was about
> >> > the respective merits of Django and Wes and a pretty subtle point was
> >> > being made by both sides. It wasn't bad at all.
>
> >> maybe I got the HJ thing mixed up with someone else. I was under the
> >> impression that Henry checked out of here due to some negative stuff
> >> that got thrown at him.
>
> > he did. I spoke to him about it. It was a lack of respect...
>
>
> Points were made that Django was more copied by guitar players than Wes.
> Johnson claimed it was "fact, not opinon" that Wes was more copied than
> Django. Rmmgj not being an amen choir, somebody disagreed. That's some
> awful lack of respect, yeah.
There was more than that, some expressed in private emails.
Greger Hoel
<jackz...@gmail.com>:
> There was more than that, some expressed in private emails.
Well, I sure hope so. That that was the reason, that is, not that he was
harassad in e-mails. The way it appeared to go down here, it didn't make
sense at all.
Al
am confused why anyone cares what he thinks.
sheetsofsound
> I can't find a single mp3 or video of Richard Bornman anywhere, so I
> am confused why anyone cares what he thinks.
Richards an excellent player. He's as critical of himself as he is of
others and deleted his clips because he was embarrassed but he really
does play very well.
John K
While we are talking about Russel, what cd's of his would anyone
recommend? I've only heard a few excellent cuts on the radio and his
work with Diana Krall. The work with Krall was swinging, in the
pocket, melodic and very short.
nqbqbep
His live CD with Benny Green.
jazzylover59
> While we are talking about Russel, what cd's of his would anyone
> recommend? I've only heard a few excellent cuts on the radio and his
> work with Diana Krall. The work with Krall was swinging, in the
> pocket, melodic and very short.
For a piano/guitar duo recording, I actually prefer the studio
recording "Bluebird" (2004/Telarc) that Russell did with Benny, which
includes "Reunion Blues, "Feel Like Makin' Love," an excellent
arrangement of "Love For Sale," (a tune that my jazz pianist daughter
now plays with her guitar duo partner), "Bluebird," and "Passport."
Another recording that RM fans may be interested in hearing, is 2009
"Portrait," where Russell is the special guest of the Northwestern
State University Jazz Ensemble, directed by Arthur White. The
recording includes big band arrangements of three original
compositions by Russell ~ "Mugshot," "To Benny Golson," and "You
Should Know Better." Russell is featured on every song. My favorite
beng the Bobby Watson ballad "The Love We Had Yesterday."
"Heartstrings" (VERVE/Tommy LiPuma) was well received back in 2001,
with the stellar rhythm section of Kenny Barron, Christian McBride,
and Jeff "Tain" Watts. All songs on the recording are arranged by
Russell, and the final track is a lovely solo piece of "What A Friend
We Have In Jesus." The rest of the record is produced with complete
strings sections directed (?) by Johnny Mandel, Dori Caymmi, and Alan
Broadbent.
"Russell Malone" and "Black Butterfly" are is earlier works, of course
both well received.
He busted out in 2004 with "Playground" as his first MAXJAZZ recording
with the String Series.
Seriously, I enjoy each of his other recordings: "Sweet Georgia
Peach" (1998) with another stellar rhythm section of Kenny Barron, Ron
Carter, and Lewis Nash; "Look Who's Here" (2000), recorded with his
touring band at the time. And of course, there are the two volumes of
"Live At Jazz Standard" (MAXJAZZ) recorded in September 2005.
Russell's latest release is "Triple Play" (pianoless ~ with David Wong
on bass, and Montez Coleman on drums) which has experienced extensive
jazz radio airplay, and has been placed in some lists for Top 10 jazz
recordings for 2010. Russell puts a different spin on his popular
"Sweet Georgia Peach." It ends with a solo piece in "Unchained Melody"
which I don't particular care for on this recording, but others rave
about. I've heard him play it live twice, and much prefer experiencing
it that way. In fact, seeing him play live is multiple times better
than any recording you will ever hear.
One recording that I do not enjoy is "Wholly Cats," recorded in 1995
in Japan by Venus Records, but not released until 1999. Guitarists
seem to like that one though.
My favorite recording to listen to because I am a singer, is Diana
Krall's "When I Look In Your Eyes" (1999) which was nominated for a
Grammy for Album of the Year, and won for Jazz Vocal. The interchange
between Diana on piano and Russell on guitar is wonderful. It gives a
whole new meaning to the phrase "start and finish each other
sentences." I believe Russell's solo work on "East of the Sun" was
nominated for a Grammy.
Another recording that Russell participated in is yet another Grammy
winner (1997 for Latin Jazz) by Roy Hargrove's Crisol band, is
"Habana." "O My Seh Yeh," the opening 10 minute track is my favorite.
Does anyone know that the first Grammy winning record that Russell
participated in was Branford Marsalis' "I Heard You Twice the First
Time" back in 1992?
His complete discography as a leader can be found on his All About
Jazz musician profile page, listing all tracks and original
compositions on each release, the personnel, and guitars used on each
recording (which is numerous).
John K
Thanks.
That should keep me busy
Bg
> recommend? I've only heard a few excellent cuts on the radio and his
> work with Diana Krall. The work with Krall was swinging, in the
> pocket, melodic and very short.
Sweet Georgia Peach is a really nice Malone CD.
<http://www.amazon.com/Sweet-Georgia-Peach-Russell-Malone/dp/
B00000ADJZ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1299090850&sr=1-1>
Bg
John K
> On Feb 26, 1:05 pm, Klatu Verata Necktie <solja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > The trouble with this is that it may lead to an Amen chorus discussion
> > forum. The site would be completely irrelevant if one were lambasted
> > for giving an honest opinion in a thread titled, "What do you think of
> > such and such player?". I do agree, however, that one should always
> > try to be as polite and thoughtful as possible in one's discussions.
>
> +1, agree 100%. I recently read art taylor's awesome book, "notes and
> tones" and one of the questions he asks everyone interviewed is what
> they think of criticisms of their playing?
>
> I definitely understand the choice not to publicly criticize others,
> but I am mystified by folks thinking it's wrong for anyone to do.
> jack, do you also feel that restaurant critics, record reviewers, and
> everyone else that does similar things should also only write positive
> reviews?
>
> at the end of the day this is the internet, and people are going to
> say all manner of things and anyone who can't get used to that is not
> going to enjoy interacting with others via the internet very much.
>
>
I'm not sure what the big deal is about someone not liking or
criticizing a certain player's, playing if he has some valid reasons.
There are plenty of jazz guitarists that I don't like but I think are
master players. Their playing leaves me cold. The only reason for
criticizing a player would be to not ruffle feathers of friend's of
the players that might give you gigs, then, it would seem to be better
to be politically correct.
Some people might get upset if I say I've never been crazy about Tal
Farlow's playing. I don't like his time feel. Not everyone can have
the same opinion or should.
Keith Freeman
> Farlow's playing. I don't like his time feel.
Yup, been there, done that, still got the scars ;-}
-Keith
Clips, Portable Changes, tips etc.: www.keithfreemantrio.nl
e-mail: info AT keithfreemantrio DOT nl
Carl
you... :-) Some people just don't have a handle on that "freedom of
speech" thingy, or the free exchange of ideas and opinions, or an allowance
for differences of opinion, unless, of course, it's they that want to be
heard.
John K
Yea....freedom of speech...indeed.
John K
...or try criticizing someone sort of music practicing that they've
put 100's of hours into ...heck, not even criticizing it...but
questioning it.
sheetsofsound
> On Feb 26, 2:38 pm, paul <pcsanw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 26, 1:05 pm, Klatu Verata Necktie <solja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > The trouble with this is that it may lead to an Amen chorus discussion
> > > forum. The site would be completely irrelevant if one were lambasted
> > > for giving an honest opinion in a thread titled, "What do you think of
> > > such and such player?". I do agree, however, that one should always
> > > try to be as polite and thoughtful as possible in one's discussions.
>
> > +1, agree 100%. I recently read art taylor's awesome book, "notes and
> > tones" and one of the questions he asks everyone interviewed is what
> > they think of criticisms of their playing?
>
> > I definitely understand the choice not to publicly criticize others,
> > but I am mystified by folks thinking it's wrong for anyone to do.
> > jack, do you also feel that restaurant critics, record reviewers, and
> > everyone else that does similar things should also only write positive
> > reviews?
>
> > at the end of the day this is the internet, and people are going to
> > say all manner of things and anyone who can't get used to that is not
> > going to enjoy interacting with others via the internet very much.
>
> I'm not sure what the big deal is about someone not liking or
> criticizing a certain player's,
There's no big deal. You can criticize whomever you want. But then
don't whine when others vehemently disagree with you or even call you
out as Malone did with Bornman. You can't have it both ways. You want
the freedom to throw stones but you also want the protection of not
having stones thrown back. Surprised everyone always overlooks that.
Klatu Verata Necktie
>
> - Show quoted text -
The perfect way to immunize oneself would be to start a critical post
by saying, "I suck." Once you've gotten that out of the way, you can
make whatever comment you'd like.
What I don't get is why so much offense is taken at comments directed
at public works of art. If I say that I don't care for Artist X's
music, people will come out of the woodwork to tell me that Artist X
is better than I am. No doubt that is true; however, I'm not a public
artist who is competing with the rest of the artistic community for
listenership
Graham
religion, they need to validate it by making everyone else believe in
it too.
Similarly, if they love/hate artist X, it is not enough to just state
their opinion - they want everyone else to adopt it too.
I don't think there's a problem if people just say they don't like a
player, give constructive reasons why, and keep the language neutral.
It's when they say: "X sucks/is lame, and anyone who disagrees with me
is deaf, and I can prove it by reference to clip Y" that things go
downhill.
John K
Russel couldn't play, then, his response to trash him back would be
suitable...like he did.
I don't see anyone whining, here.
Carl
Tim McNamara
<3ba53e7e-b50f-44c9...@o30g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
sheetsofsound <jackz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You want the freedom to throw stones but you also want the protection
> of not having stones thrown back. Surprised everyone always overlooks
> that.
Nice encapsulation of American politics, especially the current right
wing bobbleheads in Congress.
--
"It is not unfrequent to hear men declaim loudly upon liberty, who, if we may
judge by the whole tenor of their actions, mean nothing else by it but their
own liberty ‹ to oppress without control or the restraint of laws all who
are poorer or weaker than themselves." Samuel Adams
sheetsofsound
>
> sheetsofsound <jackzuc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You want the freedom to throw stones but you also want the protection
> > of not having stones thrown back. Surprised everyone always overlooks
> > that.
>
> Nice encapsulation of American politics, especially the current right
> wing bobbleheads in Congress.
funny, i thought that's what you just did. A typical republican
volley / response...
Klatu Verata Necktie
You're a Republican. No, you're a Republican. Naw ahh, you're a
Republican. Powerful stuff.
Neer
> As a professional musician, I still think it would be better for all
> involved if you didn't criticize other pros on a public forum. It's
> not just about being an adult, it's a matter of respect to folks who
> are out there trying to play publicly. I know that you feel some folks
> are getting undue accolades but so what? Just let it slide. You do
> have much to contribute so focus on the positive things you have to
> offer.
I used to get bugged by some of the comments Richard would post, as
they almost seemed Dali-like, but they don't bother me anymore. He is
an opinionated person like all of us; at least he is not passive
aggressive. I'm OK with Bornman.