How Johnny Smith Got His Uniquely Beautiful Sound!

[Steve]

I posted something about this in another thread but felt that it was worth creating a new thread about. Aside from the fact that he used a lot of close voicing piano like stretch chords, a large part of Johnny Smith's beautiful, fat sound was a combination of him using his Gibson Johnny Smith model with the suspended pick up and his Ampeg Fountain Of Sound amplifier. That particular tube amp laid on its' back suspended above the floor on short legs so that the sound shot straight up in the air like a fountain! Couple that unique combination with a musical genius who has perfect pitch and perfect technique and you have Johnny Smith - the John Williams of the pickstyle jazz guitar!
Steven Herron
Peabody Conservatory Trained Guitarist
http://www.chordmelodyguitarmusic.com/Johnny-Smith-guitar-tab-tablature-books-DVDs.htm

[edisoned]

If I"m not mistaken, before he signed with Gibson, he used a D'angelico for many of his early recordings.
ed
Here's some Johnny Smith live. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLhmWQgY4ps
Here's a couple of his album covers holding a D'Angelico too
http://www.jazz.com/music/2009/9/2/johnny-smith-some-of-these-days
http://music.yahoo.com/johnny-smith/albums/sound-of-the-johnny-smith-guitar--6381590

[rpjazzguitar]

Here's a gorgeous clip of What Are You Doing the Rest of Your Life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQHRPC81DDg&feature=related

Playing the D'A.

[charlieguitar]

He also played a Guild at times. There was a guy on here a while back who studied and played with some in Colorado.If anyone remembers who he was he could possibly let us know if Johnny needed the particular rig that is mentioned or if he could get his sound by various methods.
Charlie

[van]

On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:37:33 PM UTC-4, Steve wrote:

JS used the FOS amp only on live gigs. A good friend of mine played bass with him on some gigs and knew Jess Oliver, the electronics genius behind the FOS and the Ampeg B-15 bass amp.
On most of the Roost recordings of the 1950s, this is my best estimation of how he got that incredible sound (leaving out his technical and musical mastery of the guitar):
He plugged his D'Angelico into a pre-amp, and then directly into the board, without using any amplifier.
I'm pretty sure he used a DeArmond pickup, but I don't think the 1100 was invented yet.
I implore any JS expert out there- JG, Rick Ireland (whatever happened to him?)or whomever, to either add or correct this.
Steve,
I've searched the ChordMelody site for Stacy McKee's JS transcriptions, and all I've come up with is a huge list of Stacy McKee arrangements. Could you tell me where the JS ones are? Thanks.

[mark cleary]

"rpjazzguitar" wrote in message
news:0dfa3f34-068e-4e95...@googlegroups.com...

Here's a gorgeous clip of What Are You Doing the Rest of Your Life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQHRPC81DDg&feature=related

Playing the D'A.

I have wrote about this in the past but Johnny let me play his D'angelico
when I was at his shop in 1979 that summer. I must say it was beautiful and
had flatwound strings, which I do not like, but through an amp or direct it
makes for a great sound.
Johnny was a gentleman in every respect and treated an 18 year old jazz
guitar learner/player like gold. I had my Barker with me and he played it
too. Told me to never part with it, it was a great guitar and the prices of
Gibson were going to skyrocket. So far I have taken his advice the Barker is
still here playing great. He also explained how he wanted the JS Gibson
built because it was something the old builders did and both Barker and
Hollenbeck agreed with his thinking for the most part. Johnny is an
excellent repairmen I might add even told me how he set intonation without
ever using a tuner. The Man Had Ears!


Deacon Mark Cleary
Epiphany Catholic Church

[Steve]

On Thursday, September 20, 2012 3:05:29 PM UTC-5, van wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:37:33 PM UTC-4, Steve wrote: > I posted something about this in another thread but felt that it was worth creating a new thread about. Aside from the fact that he used a lot of close voicing piano like stretch chords, a large part of Johnny Smith's beautiful, fat sound was a combination of him using his Gibson Johnny Smith model with the suspended pick up and his Ampeg Fountain Of Sound amplifier. That particular tube amp laid on its' back suspended above the floor on short legs so that the sound shot straight up in the air like a fountain! Couple that unique combination with a musical genius who has perfect pitch and perfect technique and you have Johnny Smith - the John Williams of the pickstyle jazz guitar! > > Steven Herron > > Peabody Conservatory Trained Guitarist > > http://www.chordmelodyguitarmusic.com/Johnny-Smith-guitar-tab-tablature-books-DVDs.htm JS used the FOS amp only on live gigs. A good friend of mine played bass with him on some gigs and knew Jess Oliver, the electronics genius behind the FOS and the Ampeg B-15 bass amp. On most of the Roost recordings of the 1950s, this is my best estimation of how he got that incredible sound (leaving out his technical and musical mastery of the guitar): He plugged his D'Angelico into a pre-amp, and then directly into the board, without using any amplifier. I'm pretty sure he used a DeArmond pickup, but I don't think the 1100 was invented yet. I implore any JS expert out there- JG, Rick Ireland (whatever happened to him?)or whomever, to either add or correct this. Steve, I've searched the ChordMelody site for Stacy McKee's JS transcriptions, and all I've come up with is a huge list of Stacy McKee arrangements. Could you tell me where the JS ones are? Thanks.

Hi Van,
If you have a fax number I can fax you the list. We don't have those up on the website yet.
Steven Herron

[Bill Godwin]

What if you post it here? You might get some more sales: )

[jmga...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, September 20, 2012 3:05:29 PM UTC-5, van wrote:

> JS used the FOS amp only on live gigs. A good friend of mine played bass with him on some gigs and knew Jess Oliver, the electronics genius behind the FOS and the Ampeg B-15 bass amp.
>
> On most of the Roost recordings of the 1950s, this is my best estimation of how he got that incredible sound (leaving out his technical and musical mastery of the guitar):
>
> He plugged his D'Angelico into a pre-amp, and then directly into the board, without using any amplifier.
>
> I'm pretty sure he used a DeArmond pickup, but I don't think the 1100 was invented yet.
>
> I implore any JS expert out there- JG, Rick Ireland (whatever happened to him?)or whomever, to either add or correct this.
>

I can't say for sure, but here's my take, which is only an opinion...on Roost 2203 (The Johnny Smith Quartet)--probably my favorite JS album--and JS Foursome Volume One, he was plugged into the board. In fact the liner notes on 2203 even mention it as the first time this was ever done. If you notice or listen, the guitar tone on these two albums is not as "pure" as on other albums; it seems to have more reverb and the articulation seems more "clipped," which I attribute to early technology all the way around: pickup, cords from the guitar to the board, etc. Still, I am not an electronics/recording expert.

I also recall seeing a photo of one of the quartet recording sessions where there's clearly a mic in front of the amp. So, I don't think he used the direct process on all of his recordings.

Now that I think about it, JS wrote the liner notes on Reminiscing (the one recorded in a neighbor's living room) and he describe everything down to the type of microphones on how that was recorded.

John Galich

[van]

On Friday, September 21, 2012 11:55:57 PM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:
> On Thursday, September 20, 2012 3:05:29 PM UTC-5, van wrote: > JS used the FOS amp only on live gigs. A good friend of mine played bass with him on some gigs and knew Jess Oliver, the electronics genius behind the FOS and the Ampeg B-15 bass amp. > > On most of the Roost recordings of the 1950s, this is my best estimation of how he got that incredible sound (leaving out his technical and musical mastery of the guitar): > > He plugged his D'Angelico into a pre-amp, and then directly into the board, without using any amplifier. > > I'm pretty sure he used a DeArmond pickup, but I don't think the 1100 was invented yet. > > I implore any JS expert out there- JG, Rick Ireland (whatever happened to him?)or whomever, to either add or correct this. > I can't say for sure, but here's my take, which is only an opinion...on Roost 2203 (The Johnny Smith Quartet)--probably my favorite JS album--and JS Foursome Volume One, he was plugged into the board. In fact the liner notes on 2203 even mention it as the first time this was ever done. If you notice or listen, the guitar tone on these two albums is not as "pure" as on other albums; it seems to have more reverb and the articulation seems more "clipped," which I attribute to early technology all the way around: pickup, cords from the guitar to the board, etc. Still, I am not an electronics/recording expert. I also recall seeing a photo of one of the quartet recording sessions where there's clearly a mic in front of the amp. So, I don't think he used the direct process on all of his recordings. Now that I think about it, JS wrote the liner notes on Reminiscing (the one recorded in a neighbor's living room) and he describe everything down to the type of microphones on how that was recorded. John Galich

Thanks for the info, John.
I'm reading the liner notes for 2203 and 2223, and it's just as you say, but he does say on 2223 "that, owing to the string noises of the guitar, the solos on this AND OTHER ALBUMS were recorded with the guitar connected directly into the recording console, thus eliminating the majority of these extraneous sounds."
So probably everything after 2203 was recorded without an amp.
You can tell he probably used an amp on the "Jam Session" LP, because the sound is completely different from the sound on 2203 and beyond.
The only ones who know about the pre-amp are people who were on the scene back then.

[ott...@hotmail.com]

Here's a clip of A Live gig somewhere, where he's having fun.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLhmWQgY4ps>

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[clevelandjazz]

i have to disagree that his sound was based on his equipment. This is a common fallacy among internet chat forum users.

Johnny Smith's sound is largely based on his picking approach which was to pick from the elbow and using rest-strokes. He even adjusted the pickguard so he could do rest-strokes on the high E string.

[van]

On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 10:23:31 AM UTC-4, clevelandjazz wrote:
> i have to disagree that his sound was based on his equipment. This is a common fallacy among internet chat forum users.
>
> Johnny Smith's sound is largely based on his picking approach which was to pick from the elbow and using rest-strokes. He even adjusted the pickguard so he could do rest-strokes on the high E string.

Didn't you watch the hour long video interview with JS? He talks about the way he really picks. The elbow thing was just to help develop picking across the strings at slow tempos. At fast tempos, he used more wrist.

He never mentioned adjusting the pickguard in the video interview, or any of the many interviews I've read. He never mentions rest strokes, either.
Where did you get that info? Are you sure you're not confusing JS with Joe Pass, who used rest strokes like Django did?

If you read the thread, I was talking about the differences between his sound live, compared to the sound on his records, which was much stronger.
While his picking technique did play a role in his sound, the added factors of using a D'Angelico New Yorker with a DeArmond pickup plugged straight into the board on recordings, resulted in that incredible sound which influenced Pat Martino and countless other guitarists.
JS also may have used a pre-amp before going straight into the board also.

[clevelandjazz]

i'm not confusing he and pass but I think you may be right based on this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQHRPC81DDg

[Tim McNamara]

Looking at lots of players on YouTube and in person, it appears to me
that no one picks solely from the elbow and, given the laws of physics
and the neurological functioning of the human arm and hand, it would be
silly to do so. Much greater accuracy and facility is available with
the wrist- the elbow for large movements (which string you're playing,
for example) and the wrist for actual alternating picking. You're
moving too much mass trying to do alternate picking from the elbow; it's
inefficient compared to using the wrist. The way the brain is wired we
have much better fine motor control from the wrist than from the elbow.

[van]

Watch the video. It's on a thread entitled "Great Johnny Smith Interview" from a few days ago. He explains how that book "Aids To Technique" fucked up the technique of thousands of players (including me).

[ott...@hotmail.com]

Here's a vid that shows Smith's And Mundell's right hand work.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jlDZ4OqMtI>

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[Mark Kleinhaut]

Tim, I play with lots of arm for the fasted stuff. I feel there's the most speed from the arm but the wrist and fingers offer the most control.

[charlieguitar]

Right, let's not forget the fingers and hand. Smith said that he often warmed up for gigs by flexing and relaxing the muscle found at the base of the thumb, which he felt was most important when it comes to pick control,rather than practicing! This places a lot more importance on the hand than ststements that have been attributed to him in the past. Charlie

[charlieguitar]

Statements that should have been.

[decap...@yahoo.com]

Absolutely false.

[Tim McNamara]

Which part?

[bire...@mac.com]

Hey guys, I came across this thread recently and I wanted to share with all of you that Rick Ireland (my father) passed away in October of 2011. It was nice finding some of these groups that he participated in... His love of guitars and his good friend Johnny Smith were with him always. I own two of Johnny's guitars now and his original custom made JS Emrad amplifier. He gave these to my father some years ago. Still uncovering things to this day. Just wanted to fill everybody in... Thanks for being his friend... Bobby

[van]

I'm very sad to hear that. Rick was a great guy, and he always talked about JS the man and JS the musician in equally reverent tones.

I remember him talking about going fishing with JS a lot, and all the great times they had together.

I tried emailing Rick a few times, but had no luck. Now I know why. RIP, Rick.

Which guitars did he give your Dad?

[charlie...@gmail.com]

JS is one of my all time favorite players. He did use the DArmond RC 1000...I have one for sale for $425. Its the red insert just like his...NOT a reissue.
Check out my tribute to him on 'What's New'. I got to meet him a few times and talk guitars...he is missed! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l0QyTl_BUI

[van]

On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 10:29:19 PM UTC-4, charlie...@gmail.com wrote:
> JS is one of my all time favorite players. He did use the DArmond RC 1000...I have one for sale for $425. Its the red insert just like his...NOT a reissue.
> Check out my tribute to him on 'What's New'. I got to meet him a few times and talk guitars...he is missed! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l0QyTl_BUI

That was great! I especially dug the shades. You ain't playin' shit unless you got shades on. ;- )Did you use his D tuning on that? You got that almost over amplified sound that JS got, because his DeArmonds had such a strong output.
The Guild repros of the RC 1000 and 1100 have only half the output of the originals.
His chord work is tough to play, and JS did it so smoothly that even classical guitarists are in awe of him.
I did a gig with Billy Butler, and he said that Smith's solo guitar arrangements were transcriptions of piano solos by some pianist around back then.

I could believe it; he uses harmonic ideas and voicings that only a pianist would think of and play.

Do you remember any specifics of what you talked about when you met JS?

[ott...@hotmail.com]

On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 10:29:19 PM UTC-4, charlie...@gmail.com wrote:

> JS is one of my all time favorite players. He did use the DArmond RC 1000...I have one for sale for $425. Its the red insert just like his...NOT a reissue.
> Check out my tribute to him on 'What's New'. I got to meet him a few times and talk guitars...he is missed! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l0QyTl_BUI

Very Nice work, thanks a Lot for posting that.
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