Last CS-336 vs ES-335 report for now...
GregD
The neck on the CS-336 is 1/16" narrower (1-10/16). I know what the specs
say and the nut does seem to be 1-11/16, but the neck itself measures less.
Granted, it's hard to say exactly because the neck curves, but on the 335,
when measured the same way, it was clearly 1-11/16. Remeasured several
times to be sure.
I understadn the necks on the CS-336 get handmade attention, which may
account for the discrepancy. In any case, the feel on the neck and
fretboard of the CS-336 is clearly superior to the ES-335, though you can
easily get used to the 335.
The neck on the ES-335 is wide and flat compared to the CS-336's neck,
which is more rounded on the back and more crowned on the fretboard.
Funny thing... I was thinking (yeah, I know that alone is funny), but if I
had paid full price for these guitars, I wouldn't keep either one of them.
Greg
GregD
I reversed the offending saddles on the bridge of the CS-336 thta were
set too far back Thaqnkfully, that fixed the problem such that going
with a larger gauage wouldn't pose a problem. Good thing, too, since the
CS-336 does *not* use the spacer plug-like thing that other Gibson semis
use, making it impossible for me to relocate the bridge posts.
That is, the bridge posts are anchored directly to the top (and what
ever support mechanism is underneath).
This is unlike other Gibson semis, which use a plug that is drilled into
the top; the bridge posts rest in the plug. To relocate the bridge, you
remove the plugs, route out the hole slightly backwards (or forwards as
needed) and put the plug back into hole and wedge small pieces of wood
in the gap to stabilize it. Because the plug has a flange bigger than
the plug, any work within 1/8"-1/4" (slightly elss than 1/4") is
imperceptible.
I have to admit that the CS-336 is the better playing and sounding
guitar and with the bridge impediment removed, the CS-336 is the front-
runner for me to keep. It just sounds like what I expected a 335 to
sound like.
The Es-335 sounds much crisper - a little too much for my tastes. I
wouldn't mind if that was true when both pups are on, but it's true of
the neck, too.
And even though, the 335 is crisper than the CS-336 on the neck pup, the
CS-336 is clearer sounding. What is the deal with that?
The CS-336 stays in tune better than the ES-335, too. Could be because
the strings on the Es-335 are brand new, while the CS-336 strings may be
more played in. Still, I left both over night and the CS-336 was in tune
the next day.
After resetting the intonation after I swapped around the saddles, the
CS-336 has almost perfect intonation up and down the neck as measured
with a chromatic tuner. A couple of notes (and I mean like only 3 or 4)
are off my a cent or so, but I can't hear that.
In the end, the CS-336 is fun to play as i said on my first review. It
sounds different thna my 175 but not so much so that it approaches Strat
territory, which the 335 seems to want to flirt with.
The CS-336 is light and small, which is kinda nice after wielding ES-
135's and 137's for the past 5 years. The neck is superior on the CS-
336, too, for feel and playability, since I prefer a more crowned feel
to the fretbaord than the flatter approach the ES-335 takes. The CS-336
feels more like a 175 in that respect, but without the thicker neck.
Now, the question is... do I keep it?
Hmm, let's see... new Gibson archtop with full factory warranty... could
sell it tomorrow for more than I paid (same is true for the 335 and I
probably could get more for the 335 since they are more popular)...
sounds excellent (I mean, really nice)... plays wonderfully... has
virtually perfect intonation everywhere... is a solid wood guitar with a
carved top... is a Custom Shop product... is light and easy to handle...
and it's way dif than anything else I have owned...
The downside: slight spider-webbing on the finish on the back; not very
noticeable, though and seemed to have lessened after my hand polish,
which may mean it's left over finishing compound or somebody else let
polish dry on it... ebony finish (not striking like the VSB version with
figured top)... case with 5 latches will take some getting used to...
daggone, that's about it in the negative department.
Greg
Pt
No two guitars are exactly alike especially those that are not mass
produced on a machine.
I played my 72 strat for decades.
It had a very thin neck with a short radius.
It was the only guitar I played so it was what I liked.
When I bought other guitars I didn't like them.
Necks were too short, too fat, too wide, frets too big etc.
I never did find another guitar that had a neck like my old strat.
So I finally gave up trying to find a guitar that felt like my strat.
Each guitar feels and plays differently.
I now play the guitar as it is and enjoy it to the best of my ability.
My main guitar these days (Guild) has a fat neck with big frets.
The things I hated most.
But after a year of playing it exclusively (at gigs and jams) I love
this guitar and would not be comfortable playing a skinny neck strat.
But again...if I had a skinny neck strat I would get used to it and
love it.
I think your problem is too many guitars.
Choose one that you like and just play that guitar.
Pt
Jack A. Zucker
a 335.
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
"GregD" <Your...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:Xns974C6E69...@70.168.83.30...
GregD
news:43tks1dgnmcant0kd...@4ax.com:
> I think your problem is too many guitars.
> Choose one that you like and just play that guitar
How many guitars do you own again, Pat? Just to set the record straight, I
think you have several times the number I have :)-
As for the "analysis", this is the way I work through problems...
upside/downside, cost-benefit and once I get past that, I make use of the
tool.
This time the tool is a guitar; the next time it may be a new mainframe,
server farm, drill press, car, whatever.
I know it seems excessive - the analysis, but it's the way I do business
for music, work, fun. This analytical phase is wrapping up now, which 'aint
bad considering it's been less than 24 hours and only cost me about 6 hours
of my time. Time well spent to spend the kind of money we're talking about.
Greg
Phil
I always enjoy your reviews. I'm glad you mentioned that your height
is about 5' 7" because that's my height also. Consequently a guitar
that you find comfortable (or uncomfortable) might also feel the same
way for me. I am finding that the my physical height - and the
"aspect ratio" of my particular build - has a significant effect on
which guitar models are right for me.
As much as I love the sound (acoustic especially) and the slim neck on
my full-sized Samick HJ-650 (L-5 copy), I've come to realize that the
bulk of thing and the posture it puts me in, tires me out quickly and
gives me a sore back. Consequently I too am looking at guitars with
slimmer bodies - or least smaller than the HJ650.
Thanks....Phil
Pt
>Pt <can.n...@reached.com> wrote in
>news:43tks1dgnmcant0kd...@4ax.com:
>
>> I think your problem is too many guitars.
>> Choose one that you like and just play that guitar
>
>How many guitars do you own again, Pat? Just to set the record straight, I
>think you have several times the number I have :)-
I own a lot of guitars.
You know how that goes.
But most sit in the closet.
I play two guitars most of the time.
Acoustic and Guild Blues 90 electric.
The rest just gather dust.
I decided long ago that I can not play different guitars.
My fingers miss the strings, the sound is not there etc.
Ask me why I have so many guitars.
Wish I had an answer.
I remenber having just one guitar for decades.
Never had a problem with that.
I think it's time for me to get rid of some guitars.
But they are money in the bank when you need it.
Pt
frank
<snip>
> I have to admit that the CS-336 is the better playing and sounding
> guitar and with the bridge impediment removed, the CS-336 is the front-
> runner for me to keep. It just sounds like what I expected a 335 to
> sound like.
>
> The Es-335 sounds much crisper - a little too much for my tastes. I
> wouldn't mind if that was true when both pups are on, but it's true of
> the neck, too.
>
> And even though, the 335 is crisper than the CS-336 on the neck pup, the
> CS-336 is clearer sounding. What is the deal with that?
<snip>
> Greg
Greg,
One possible answer regarding the sound of the 335 is a manufacturing
screw-up reversing the pickups. I have never seen a guitar with
hum-canceling pickups where the DC resistance of the neck was higher than
the bridge as you report.
Two consequences of the actual impedance as reflected in the DC resistance
are if higher then higher output with less high harmonics in the output. A
bridge pickup in the neck position would among other things sound less
"clear" to use your term.
Frank
Jack A. Zucker
characteristics and number of turns, wire diameter etc., are equally
important. I played through a dimarzio mini humbucker that was close to 15k,
yet sounded beautifully sweet. There's lots of stuff going on there besides
just the impedance.
However, on a given set of pickups like 57 classics and the dc resistances
you measured, it's likely that gibson switched the bridge and neck by
mistake...
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
"frank" <fpir...@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.01.15....@localnet.com...
LarryV
measured even though I've owned my HRF for 7 years now.
If you like it and it sounds and plays good, just keep it and be done
with it. Guitars are meant to be played not kept in pristine condition
for resale tomorrow. A bit of spider webbing in the finish ain't gonna
hurt the playability. My HRF has a lot of dings in it, but I consider
it a working guitar, and well, shit happens. I try to keep it in as
nice of a condition as possible, but a few dings give it character. So
the resale won't be as good as if it were in immaculate condition if I
were ever to sell it, but in the meantime, I've had a blast playing it
and enjoying it, so whatever I would lose in resale I would consider
the cost of ownership and enjoyment.
Jack A. Zucker
you've had it and gigged it and played it under a variety of conditions.
Therefore, a good rule of thumb is to only buy stuff that you can resell for
equal value. If you get a guitar that dinged or has finish problems you will
lose money if you ever resell it.
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
"LarryV" <lar...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:1137350563....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
GregD
news:1l0ls1tjsuapmvg8k...@4ax.com:
Pat, when I first started playing in the late 70's, I only owned one
gutiar at a time and it was plenty. I nver ever thought of owning more
thna ne until 20 years later when I had a little more income :)-
Greg
GregD
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
Hey, Phil. I'm glad my reviews help. You know I don't big boxes when
sitting. When standing, even my 175 is too big. This CS336 is just right,
though a little smallish at first sitting. Standing, it's a joy.
Greg
>
> Thanks....Phil
>
>
GregD
news:pan.2006.01.15....@localnet.com:
Good point. I had a '97 ES-135 - the one with P100's. Gibson swapped
them around and put the strongest one n the neck. The result was a thin
bridge sound and a very bassy neck sound.
The '57 classics in the ES-335 do not have a bridge/neck model; it's one
size fits all and obviously Gibosn didnt measure them before installing.
Greg
>
> Frank
>
>
GregD
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
> Gotta agree PT. I've never measured half the stuff that Greg has
> measured even though I've owned my HRF for 7 years now.
> If you like it and it sounds and plays good, just keep it and be done
> with it. Guitars are meant to be played not kept in pristine condition
> for resale tomorrow. A bit of spider webbing in the finish ain't gonna
> hurt the playability.
In fact, I'm overlooking that because the thing plays so well and sounds so
good.
>My HRF has a lot of dings in it, but I consider
> it a working guitar, and well, shit happens.
Dings on a used gutiar are ot be expected. dings (which there none) on a
new Custim Shop guitar that sells for $2400, well, that's another story.
> I try to keep it in as
> nice of a condition as possible, but a few dings give it character. So
> the resale won't be as good as if it were in immaculate condition if I
> were ever to sell it, but in the meantime, I've had a blast playing it
> and enjoying it, so whatever I would lose in resale I would consider
> the cost of ownership and enjoyment.
Ah, looking to sell, are we? What are you asking for it? <g> Just
kidding...
Greg
GregD
news:kZqdnTTJye6...@adelphia.com:
> That misses an important point. You can't tell if a guitar's a keeper
> until you've had it and gigged it and played it under a variety of
> conditions. Therefore, a good rule of thumb is to only buy stuff that
> you can resell for equal value. If you get a guitar that dinged or has
> finish problems you will lose money if you ever resell it.
>
Precisely.
Greg
frank
> You can't always generalize about the dc resistance of a pickup. Magnet
> characteristics and number of turns, wire diameter etc., are equally
> important. I played through a dimarzio mini humbucker that was close to 15k,
> yet sounded beautifully sweet. There's lots of stuff going on there besides
> just the impedance.
>
<snip>
Absolutely correct Jack, and I should have said all other factors being
equal. The difference in sound between a powerful ceramic magnet pickup
like the SD Invader pickup (Now, there's a winner for your next swap in
the neck position on your favorite jazz box!) and an Alnico magnet pickup
like the SD Jazz is dramatic. The former is considerably higher impedance
also which obscures the contribution of magnetic field strength to the
ultimate sound.
Turns and wire diameter are where the DC resistance comes from and relate
closely to impedance at audio frequencies, a factor that doesn't involve
the magnet.
Still, one significant difference between the sound of single coil pickups
and dual-coil humbuckers is generally the lower impedance of the singles.
It is a law of physics that the impedance of a coil resists the passage of
higher frequencies more than lower, and therefore attenuates the higher
harmonics more (capacitance is just the opposite for what that's worth).
There's no voodoo of which I am aware that will allow a 15K pickup to have
the chime, articulateness, and clarity of a 7K of similar design. That's
not to say I would challenge for a moment your characterization of that
DiMarzio as "sweet." What exactly you mean by that - a singing
musicality, smooth-voiced, full and round, whatever, might be hard to
express in words that mean the same to all readers.
Frank