no more heritage johnny smith model
BREZ9091
has expired. how might this effect those of us lucky enough to allready own
one of these incredible sounding models? seems to me they might begin to
appreciate in value. i thought this to be the best model, in their line. and
thats a fine line!
sgcim
I hope the new ones will be cheaper (and the old ones appreciate!)
John Galich
>Worse than the deal having expired...He signed a deal with Guild.
>First there was a Gibson Johnny Smith, then a Heritage and now a
>Guild....
Actually, the chain is a bit longer...he started by developing a guitar for
Gretsch in the late '40s/early '50s, which never got off the ground due to
apparent quality issues (the prototype's neck twisted within 2 weeks). Then,
he designed a similar guitar for Epiphone, which also never was put into
production. (See pages 212-213 of "Epiphone The House of Stathopoulo by Jim
Fisch and L.B. Fred for the details and a photo).
He signed with Guild around 1955 with the "Johnny Smith Award" model, so
he's gone full circle. Being very particular, he had some disagreements with
Guild over the guitar's construction. When Guild didn't acquiesce, he let
the deal expire in 1960 and switched his endorsement to Gibson. (See page
142, "The Guild Guitar Book" by Hans Moust where Johnny is quoted
extensively on the issue). This guitar eventually became known as the Artist
Award.
>The Gibson was an incredible instrument. The one I had was so nice
>that Pat Martino wanted to trade his hand-made Koontz for it.
Sounds like you had a great one! Many were very fine, especially those made
early on to about 1969-70 when, from what I understand, the quality could be
all over the place. If I recall a Smith interview correctly (perhaps Rick
Ireland can help here), he learned that the JS was the only Gibson archtop
that did not have a mold/template; therefore consistency couldn't be
controlled. The comment I remember Johnny saying was something like he could
come closer to the original specs with a jackknife.
In my experience, I owned a 1977 wine red JS that was an unresponsive "boat
anchor"; I was really disappointed when I got it. In 1984, I bought a Guild
Artist Award, which became my main guitar. From that point forward, the
Smith stayed mostly in its case (it never improved with age) until I sold it
in the mid-1990s; I understand it's somewhere in Europe.
>I played a Heritage and didn't like it as much as the Gibson. I'm sure the
>Guild is nice but at this point and with 3 different endorsement
>deals, I think it's pretty obvious that these deals are no different
>than what Nike does.
Apparently, quality concerns raised their ugly head again at Heritage.
There's an article/interview entitled "Johnny Smith Goes Full Circle" in the
news section of the Classic Jazz Guitar website (www.classicjazzguitar.com),
in which he says he's "very particular" with things with his name on them.
Guild approached him again and he feels very comfortable with Bob
Benedetto's involvement with they company.
Sorry for the long reply...
John Galich
BREZ9091
Joe Finn
> Actually, the chain is a bit longer...he started by developing a guitar
for
> Gretsch in the late '40s/early '50s, which never got off the ground due to
> apparent quality issues (the prototype's neck twisted within 2 weeks).
Then,
> he designed a similar guitar for Epiphone, which also never was put into
> production. (See pages 212-213 of "Epiphone The House of Stathopoulo by
Jim
> Fisch and L.B. Fred for the details and a photo).
>
> He signed with Guild around 1955 with the "Johnny Smith Award" model, so
> he's gone full circle.
I have had the pleasure of trying out the Award model. Like many Guilds from
this era it was absolutely gorgeous. The fullness of the lush tone and
playability were memorable.
> Being very particular, he had some disagreements with
> Guild over the guitar's construction. When Guild didn't acquiesce, he let
> the deal expire in 1960 and switched his endorsement to Gibson. (See page
> 142, "The Guild Guitar Book" by Hans Moust where Johnny is quoted
> extensively on the issue). This guitar eventually became known as the
Artist
> Award.
>
> >The Gibson was an incredible instrument. The one I had was so nice
> >that Pat Martino wanted to trade his hand-made Koontz for it.
>
> Sounds like you had a great one! Many were very fine, especially those
made
> early on to about 1969-70 when, from what I understand, the quality could
be
> all over the place. If I recall a Smith interview correctly (perhaps Rick
> Ireland can help here), he learned that the JS was the only Gibson archtop
> that did not have a mold/template; therefore consistency couldn't be
> controlled. The comment I remember Johnny saying was something like he
could
> come closer to the original specs with a jackknife.
>
A singer I used to work with had a Johnny Smith Gibson. It was a beautiful
sunburst and was one of the finest electric guitars I have ever played. The
acoustic tone was exquisite and it sounded even better through the amp. He
had purchased it new and didn't seem to play it much so it was in pristine
condition. I later heard it had been stolen.
I don't understand the comment about the absence of a template. What do you
mean by this? ....joe
Visit me on the web. www.JoeFinn.net
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Joe Finn
news:20020730183750...@mb-mt.aol.com...
The Heritage Johnny Smith will appreciate. I have been told by Heritage that
the older Eagles are worth more than when they were new. The late
eighties/early nineties Eagles are just now beginning to mature. The JS will
be swept up in this trend too. .........joe
--
David C. Stephens
"Joe Finn" <J...@joefinn.net> wrote in message
news:3d489...@corp.newsgroups.com...
> "BREZ9091" <brez...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20020730183750...@mb-mt.aol.com...
> > well seems heritage now must call it the aa deluxe model, as endorsement
> deal
> > has expired. how might this effect those of us lucky enough to
allready
> own
> > one of these incredible sounding models? seems to me they might begin
to
> > appreciate in value. i thought this to be the best model, in their
line.
> and
> > thats a fine line!
>
> The Heritage Johnny Smith will appreciate. I have been told by Heritage
that
> the older Eagles are worth more than when they were new. The late
> eighties/early nineties Eagles are just now beginning to mature. The JS
will
> be swept up in this trend too. .........joe
I'd like to think that my Heritage (a custom Golden Eagle) is increasing in
monetary value, but I wouldn't believe the kind people at Heritage on this
one. If you purchase a new Heritage at a fair price from a dealer like Jay
Wolfe, chances are that it will depreciate for several years, including an
initial big drop in value. Your absolute dollar loss may be less than buying
the equivalent Gibson at new street prices, but none-the-less there will be
an initial decline. After the initial decline, the power and mystique of the
Gibson name will cause the Gibby to gain value much faster than the Heritage
(although, it will take some time before either reaches their original
retail value). Someone that has the misfortune of paying full list price for
either a Heritage or Gibson will likely grow old before their guitar is
worth what they paid for it.
;-)
Dave
Rick Ireland
We are leaving Friday the 9th to see Johnny and Sandy for a few days. I
will ask him about this after a couple of drinks.
Rick Ireland
thomas
as an investment. Buy it to play it. Predicting the collector's
market is extremely difficult, because there is so little rationality
involved.
"David C. Stephens" <dcs...@swbell.net> wrote in message news:<9O929.3$4x1.8...@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>...
BREZ9091
epiphone casinos for 7-900 not too very long ago, and the prices now are
through the roof. a new gibson super 400 my brother in law bought 10 years ago
has skyrocketed in value. buying smart is what its all about. the heritage
johnny smith is unique in that each one is signed has abalone inlay etc. when
heritage goes under or more likely is swallowed up by someone else then the
demand will intensify. i hope it never happens but i feel it will.
Jack A. Zucker
> i disagree. the market can be predicted just like the stock market.
Damn, you must be good. Even Alan Greenspan can't do that!
Jaz
Jack A. Zucker
It's like the guys who want to sell stock secrets...
--
web: http://www.jackzucker.com
"BREZ9091" <brez...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020801180555...@mb-bj.aol.com...
David C. Stephens
guitars that they make. Probably the biggest business risk relates to the
succession as the founders retire and want to pass along the heritage (pun
intended). Hopefully, they've planned on that.
I'm curious to hear how much your brother-in-law's new Super 400
appreciated. I haven't seen anyone make money on a new Gibson of the last
couple of decades. Maybe I've missed something. (I do know of an individual
that's able to by prototypes and similar very low production items from
Gibson at dealer cost levels. He's an exception to my regular guy "anyone".
Maybe he's your brother-in-law, cause I know he's a S400 aficionado in the
biggest way possible).
Dave
"BREZ9091" <brez...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020801180555...@mb-bj.aol.com...
Joe Finn
Some old Corvettes are bringing more than they did brand new. Old guitars,
too.
Gibsons, Epiphones, and Heritage, too. I turned over an older Selmer Mk VI
at a profit recently.
Within this market there is most definitely a buck to be made.
I don't think Heritage is going bye-bye just yet. ........joe
Mike Healy
BREZ9091 <brez...@aol.com> wrote:
>i disagree. the market can be predicted just like the stock market.
This might have the opposite meaning that you intended ;-P
Mike Healy
Jay Wolfe
Hmmmmmmm. Where'd you get that model name? The guys at Heritage have never
heard of that.
I have 3 new Johnny Smith's available, and have ordered more- which won't
have his name on them nor the rose inlay. They'll be less dough & I've
changed a couple specs.
The new Kenny Burrell signature model is finally being made & I now
have photo's of the 1'st prototype- if anybody would like some- e-mail me
direct.
--
"BREZ9091" <brez...@aol.com> wrote in message
well seems heritage now must call it the aa deluxe model, as endorsement
deal
> has expired
John Galich
John Galich