Tube Jazz Guitar Amp - The Search Continues!
lfio
out. I played through a Carr Rambler, and Fender Deluxe Reissue and a
Koch Twintone. The Carr was my favorite - the Deluxe was quite nice
as well. The were similar, but to my ears the Carr was like a more
transparent Deluxe. The tone of my guitar came across much more with
the Carr. Also, it seemed perfectly tuned for an archtop. No
feedback even at high volumes. The Twintone was definitely not what I
was looking for.
I'm curious about the Heritage Kenny Burrell amp. From what I'm
reading, Heritage amps are very high quality, and the higher wattage
appeals to me. Any feedback on how it compared to the Carr would be
greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Lou
Jim Soloway
I'm going to offer you some very simplistic advice. If you really
like the Rambler and it does what you want...then buy it and never try
another amp. Seriously. You can drive yourself seriously crazy trying
to find the "perfect" amp. It's really not worth the madness. The
Rambler is a fine amp and the differences between it and several of
it's immediate competitors are small and their value entirely
subjective.
lfio
hesitate. One is that the Carr may not have enough clean headroom for
every gig. The other is price - the Carr is a lot of friggin
dough! .
> subjective.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
sheets
Chickenhead
enough clean headroom for some gigs; and they cost a helluva' lotta'
freakin' dough. Get it anyways.
Once I got used to that Rambler, nothing else seemed to sound right to me.
I was so nervous about spending that much dough on an amp when I bought it,
but ever since I started gigging with I've been convinced that it's the best
gear investment I ever made. I had a nervous feeling in the pit of my
stomach for a couple weeks after I bought it; spending that much on gear
freaked me out. But shortly thereafter . . .
It improved my sound so much that it has paid for itself many times over in
satisfied clients who compliment the guitar tone, more compliments from
other musicians, better gigs, better pay, and better demos. At the time I
bought it, I didn't think it would make as much difference as it did -- I
was just treating myself. Once I started gigging with it though, I realized
how much difference it made and it became far more than just a luxury. It's
probably the one gear purchase I've never regretted.
In large rooms and outdoor gigs, it probably doesn't matter too much what
you use as long as it has some headroom. At that point it's mostly damage
control. For those type of gigs where I need headroom, I use a $250 Peavey
Classic 100 and a Redstone and/or RE cab. It's cheap, powerful, and sounds
good at high db. Even if it had the headroom, the Carr's detail would be
wasted in most of those situations. You'll never find an amp that will work
for every room and situation.
I agree that the Rambler is perfectly tuned for archtop. I also get an
EXCELLENT sound from the Rambler with my $160 Sejung nylon-string
classical-electric. You wouldn't think it would work, but it does. As long
as I'm not so loud that I'm feeding back or running out of headroom, it does
something to the sound that makes it sound like an expensive guitar that was
recorded by a super-good engineer with super expensive gear.
It makes that $160 eBay Sejung junk box sound like a $6000 guitar.
Something about the way the Rambler is tuned and balanced, along with the
quality of the (tube-driven!) reverb, works very well with the nylon-string.
"lfio" <lf...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1192069219....@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
Pat Smith
Vincent the other day and it is the best one yet. Just my 2 cents. I
have been very very happy with the Carrs
Rick Ross
"lfio" <lf...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1192069219....@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> I hear you Jim....but there are a couple of things that make me
> hesitate. One is that the Carr may not have enough clean headroom for
> every gig. The other is price - the Carr is a lot of friggin
> dough! .
>
the $2,.000 price range is lot a lot of "dough" these days for a quality
handwired amp..
this is the one I use;
http://chicagobluesbox.com/content/newsletter_details.asp?ArticleID=7
built like a tank, simple controls, great sound...in fact, when I got it I
was so impressed I bought another one at a discount..ignore the "blues"
vibe..this is a great jazz guitar amp..
Charlie X
(see pics on my site http://charliex.com)
It did sound perfect for archtop and even with a floating pup i had a
good jazz sound.
I also have the Rivera Jazz suprema 55. When i got that amp i swore
off solid state amps forever. You cannot get the vibe of a tube amp
from anywhere else.
GO for the carr or check out a rivera (about the same price) however
you will not run out of clean power with the rivera if u play larger
gigs.
I may add a carr to my collection but the poster is also correct. Get
a good amp...and stick with it. Stop 'tone chasing' because it will
never end. But the amp is important to your sound and more important
as to how YOU feel when u play.
So spend the money now and only cry once. If u buy another amp to get
you by, you cry every time you have to use it.
check out my clips at http://charliex.com
sheets
> You cannot get the vibe of a tube amp
> from anywhere else.
gotta disagree there. I sold all my tube amps after playing the axe-fx
modeler. It gets a great jazz sound like an idealized fender reverb
amp without the hassles of the tubes.
Todd Lainhart
>
> I'm going to offer you some very simplistic advice. If you really
> like the Rambler and it does what you want...then buy it and never try
> another amp. Seriously. You can drive yourself seriously crazy trying
> to find the "perfect" amp. It's really not worth the madness. The
> Rambler is a fine amp and the differences between it and several of
> it's immediate competitors are small and their value entirely
> subjective.
This is good advice.
If you decide that you do want to go the DRRI route because of $$$, I
would first look into boutique alternatives that will put you between
the DRRI and the Rambler.
I bought and built an Allen Old Flame for a little north of $1000, and
it's a very nice amp - a Super Reverb type. I can't compare it to the
Rambler as I haven't played one, but I didn't want to spend that kind
of money (and I would love to own a Carr amp).
-- Todd
dcs...@swbell.net
I'll second the Allen in this price range. In the upper end, I'd go
with an Allesandro Italian Greyhound head with a Raezer's Edge S10-ER
cab. You get a lot for your money from Allen.
Dave
Charlie X
amps....like jazzkat and clarus and jazzamp...you will get a wonderful
sound...but i cannot get the same tactile feel of the guitar through
any of those (i had them all) like i get with tubes. I played these
for years then played a tube amp at the last guitar show and its a
different planet..outside of the tone issue..for me its just the
feel...but thats just me!
pmfan57
Is it a small unit for recording, or an amp?
Jim Soloway
I felt that way for a long time, but I found that putting a clean
boost in front of some of these solid state jazz amps made a huge
difference in feel. Right now, I'm running a BBE Boosta Grande into a
Schertler David and it's amazing to me how big a difference just a
small amount of boost in betweent he guitar and the amp can make in
the feel. No, it's not the interplay I get from tubes, but it's a lot
closer with a lot less hassle and lot more tonal consistency at
various volume levels.
Marc
just to add to the insanity, I'm digging my Frenzel "Super Deluxe
Plus." Great jazz sound, lots of tonal flexibility, and custom-
handmade for under a grand!?!?! I've played in small to large venues
since I received it this summer, and it kicks everywhere. They're
custom, though, so you can't go try one out, unless there's an owner
in your area . . . Highly recommended.
http://www.frenzeltubeamps.com
Have fun!
mike
heard. I bought a blackface Fender Showman head (no reverb, cost
around $500-600), had a cabinet made by JD Newell (200) and installed
a JBL D-130 speaker (200). It is the ultimate, and it cost about
$1000. I'm also a very big fan of Standels. Even the old solid state
Standel amps with germanium transistors sound tube-like.
sheets
> I will agree that you can get awsome tones from some of the great
> amps....like jazzkat and clarus and jazzamp...you will get a wonderful
> sound...but i cannot get the same tactile feel of the guitar through
> any of those (i had them all) like i get with tubes.
You had an axe-fx?
I bet I've had more than you and you *CAN* get that feel out of it.
Charlie X
> I felt that way for a long time, but I found that putting a clean
> boost in front of some of these solid state jazz amps made a huge
> difference in feel. Right now, I'm running a BBE Boosta Grande into a
> Schertler David and it's amazing to me how big a difference just a
> small amount of boost in betweent he guitar and the amp can make in
> the feel. No, it's not the interplay I get from tubes, but it's a lot
> closer with a lot less hassle and lot more tonal consistency at
> various volume levels.
thanks Jim...i never tried the BBE...not familiar with it..but would
be worth a try as i also like the lightweight and convienience of SS.
I still have my RE 12 cab and am considering a jazzamp head since i
heard one at the show this weekend. I must say.. the best tone i have
heard live (recently) was Randy Johnston who was running a Jazzkat and
a Bass Jazzkat together. It was killin me! I talked to him about it
and he says he just has to have his music man 112 tube amp but also
tries various SS amps. They all sound good but feel different. I guess
it could be a 'mood' thing? It is nice to have a few different amps to
pick from (no pun intended). I will check out the BBE and see what it
does for me..thanks again!
Jim Soloway
There's a lot to be said for the sound you can get from a two amp
setup. John Stowell plays an AER in conjunction with an Acoustic
Image combo (The Acoustic Image replace a Music Man hybrid).
Individually, neither amp is overwhelming, but together, they really
bloom. I've experimented with a two amp rig, but without a quality AB/
Y box, you can run into noise issues really easily. I've been looking
at a few quality AB/Y boxes and if I can find one that works well, I
was thinking of picking up a Henriksen JazzAmp 10 and running it in
conjunction with my Schertler. Running two amps kind of kills the
size/weight benefit, but at least they'd both be ultrlights on their
own. :)
I think the real problem is that most of us have a set of conflicting
criteria. We want lots of clean head room but it a small, lightweight
package. We want warmth and an interactive feel, but we want it at
low volume levels. We also want to fill larger rooms or cut through a
drummer without the tone distorting, but we don't want to loose all of
our tone when we turn down. Plus we want it all in a reliable build.
It's easy to get 70% of that but the last 30% is where the real crazy
making begins.
Jim Soloway
never been a great typist, but that may be a new personal record for
the most clams in a single post. :)
Chickenhead
got mine for $250. With a Redstone 10V or RE12 cab, it's a monster with as
much headroom as I've ever needed. I'd love to try it with a Redstone 12
someday. Even with a good cab, the total price was still less than a used
DRRI -- And it has a LOT more headroom than a DRRI.
It's not quite as sweet as the Carr, but it gets 85-90% there; plus, unlike
the Carr, it's got enough headroom for just about anything. It's a PITA to
lug around, seeing as it weighs about 40 pounds. It's the closest I've been
able to get to the Carr tone though at high db levels. I suspect with the
right 12" speaker cab, and maybe a fresh set of tubes, I could probably get
to about 95% of the Carr sound. A cap job would be nice too, since the head
is probably old enough to vote. My vocalist calls the head "Old School,"
because it looks so old and beat up, and kind has that old tubes and and
electronics smell when it gets hot. I call it "Gigantor," because it's so
freakin' huge, heavy, and a PITA to lug around. In truth, it's really not
THAT bad though, since, due to it's being separated from the cab, it still
weighs less and is less of a back breaker than my old Hot Rod Deluxe was.
Plus, the Redstone cab is so light that, aside from an extra trip to the
car, it almost makes up for it.
Like I said, I LOVE my Rambler and, so far, nothing else I've tried has been
as good; but I have to have another amp for when I need the headroom. The
PV C100 head with a good cab is the closest I've gotten so far at high
wattage. I will say, however, that the PV's reverb is nowhere near as nice
as the Carr's. I suspect with a cap job, and the right tubes, and maybe a
little mod-ing on the reverb tone stack, I could get even closer to the
Carr -- Or as close as a Class A/B can get to a Class A.
I never tried any of the Xotic or BBE boost pedals when I had the Clarus 2R
SIII, and I've never tried Jack's super-modeler. I was never able to quite
get the right sound and feel out of solid-state though. If I could get to
85% of the Carr with a solid-state amp, but have substantially more headroom
and the weight of a Clarus, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I tried though and
finally gave up. I decided a hand truck was less aggravation than fighting
my tone all night.
I disagree with it simply being a "feel" issue for tubes. Admittedly, I
haven't tried the boost methods yet. However, my experiences with recording
reamped tracks, as well simple hearing perception indicate that there is
indeed a difference. I recently had a conversation with guitarists friend
who has a few E.E. degrees about this, and even he agreees.
In the linear, non (or very low) distortion area, there's less difference.
However, once you start entering that area between high gain metal and clean
tone, there are physical properties of the tubes that, ultimately, end up
running very complex and unduplicatable algorithms on the signal. The
frequency response, compression at various frequencies and amplitudes,
generated harmonics at various frequencies and amplitudes (or
voltages/amperages) is just too complex and variable to reproduce with
digital modeling, and not possible with transistors.
I can hear a difference in the tone on re-amped tracks when running through
a tube or solid-state amp. I could probably set a tube amp, or screw with
the track, or whatever, to make a tube amp sound pretty transistor-ish; and
I could probably come pretty close to a tube sound with a good transistor
amp at the right setting. Nonetheless, I hear a difference. Could you fool
me? Of course you could. Could I always tell if it's tubes or solid-state?
Of course not. Despite that, the tube tracks just seem to sound better most
of the time. I would be mighty surprised if anyone could duplicate with
modeling or transistors the tone of my Carr Rambler, properly mic'd at the
right setting.
The Rambler's sweet spot is big and wide. I might be able to get close if I
spent days and days futzing with just the right guitar, the right guitar
setting, the right mic, tone, reverb, room, EQ, compression, modeled or
transistor distortion, and then processed, EQ'd, multi-band-compressioned,
split-and-separatelyprocessedandreintegrated the track(s) just right; and
then re-do all that for every slight gain, tone or reverb change. But why
do it when I can just plug into the Carr, slap just about any mic in front
of it, and have love on just about any guitar in 5-10 minutes or less.
I can put the Carr up in just about any small jazz gig and instantly have a
tone I like, or I can spend all night futzing with EQ, gain, guitar knobs,
modeling settings, etc., on a solid-state rig. Same deal with the Peavey
Classic 100 in a large room: I can struggle all night with solid-state, or
maybe get lucky now and then depending on the room geometry, etc.; or I can
set up my tube rig, be happy, and play.
"mike" <ionah...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1192124768.8...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
sheets
you 100% there? 99% ? 90% ? Not sure. All I can tell you is that i've
sold all my spare vacuum tubes and tube amps and for the first time
ever, I don't even bother to look at guitar amps any more. It sounds
wonderful through a Clarus by the way...
And works equally well for jazz, blues, rock, acoustic guitar or bass.
I found that it's got its own unique voice but definitely has a feel
like you're playing through a great tube amp including idealized tube
reverb and the nice thing is that as you get louder, you don't lose
any of the characteristics that sounded so groovy at low volumes like
you do with the carr. Plus it doesn't get hot, seems to be very
reliable and is very light though I wish they'd make a pod version.
The other thing is that the effects (reverbs, delays, etc) are high-
end lexicon quality. Again, FWIW, I am not an endorser for these
guys....But if you're looking for a high end tube amp, this should be
a consideration if tone is what you're after.
Chickenhead
"Jim Soloway" <j...@jimsoloway.com> wrote in message
news:1192128829.0...@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
Jim Soloway
Jack, I know there's a monster thread over at TGP on this thing, but I
really don't know much about it. As I understand it, this is a
digital pre-amp with highly programmable (and high quality) modeling
and effects. Is that right? You still need a power amp yes? I'd
also like the vital statistics (size and weight) if you know them off
the top of your head. Thanks.
And ChickenHead, I would never suggest that I can make my solid state
sound LIKE my tube amps. I can get the feel a lot closer and I think
I can make them sound as good (for my very limited application), but
as good definitely does NOT mean the same.
charles robinson
other with dual tens. They are so new that they aren't even shown on the
JazzKat site yet. Given that the non-tube JazzKat has such a great sound
there is a good possibility that these might even be better.
Charlie
"Charlie X" <diym...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1192128040.0...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Chickenhead
I didn't get the impression you said that. I wasn't even addressing your
post. I was just blathering about my own personal experience and opinions.
I wish I'd tried some various boost pedals with the 2R SIII. I'm glad you
mentioned it, since it's something I hadn't tried. If I could get a tone I
liked even 90% as much that way, I'd be on it like the proverbial white on
rice. I'll be keeping my eye out for an opportunity to give that setup a
try. I hate dealing with tubes: i.e., the changes in sound at different
levels, the heat, the weight, the delicacy and fragility, variability, etc.
I'm not even entering the "tubes v. solid-state" debate. I wouldn't defend
tubes to anyone. I've had better tone success with 'em, but they're a
pain-in-the-ass and hardly perfect. If there's a SS rig or setup I haven't
tried (and there's a LOT I haven't tried) but should keep my eye out for,
I'm there. There's just too many things I haven't tried.
For my limited applications, and the time and gear I've had, I've had more
success with tubes at getting a tone I like. I am most certainly no
authority on this, and would LOVE to find a lightweight solid-state rig I
was happy with. I appreciate hearing your experiences, and others too.
It's a foregone conclusion that someone is going to mention something they
like that I haven't tried. I very much hope at least one of those
"somethings" is The One that works. No one wants to hear about good
solid-state tone experiences more than I do. If I could ditch those damned
little persnickity glass bottles and still like my tone, I'd be one happy
camper.
"Jim Soloway" <j...@jimsoloway.com> wrote in message
news:1192137726....@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
sheets
> On Oct 11, 1:26 pm, sheets <jackzuc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > IMO, the axe-fx gives you the feel and tone of a tube amp. Does it get
> > you 100% there? 99% ? 90% ? Not sure. All I can tell you is that i've
> > sold all my spare vacuum tubes and tube amps and for the first time
> > ever, I don't even bother to look at guitar amps any more. It sounds
> > wonderful through a Clarus by the way...
>
> > And works equally well for jazz, blues, rock, acoustic guitar or bass.
>
> > I found that it's got its own unique voice but definitely has a feel
> > like you're playing through a great tube amp including idealized tube
> > reverb and the nice thing is that as you get louder, you don't lose
> > any of the characteristics that sounded so groovy at low volumes like
> > you do with the carr. Plus it doesn't get hot, seems to be very
> > reliable and is very light though I wish they'd make a pod version.
>
> > The other thing is that the effects (reverbs, delays, etc) are high-
> > end lexicon quality. Again, FWIW, I am not an endorser for these
> > guys....But if you're looking for a high end tube amp, this should be
> > a consideration if tone is what you're after.
>
> Jack, I know there's a monster thread over at TGP on this thing, but I
> really don't know much about it. As I understand it, this is a
> digital pre-amp with highly programmable (and high quality) modeling
> and effects. Is that right? You still need a power amp yes? I'd
> also like the vital statistics (size and weight) if you know them off
> the top of your head. Thanks.
It's a 2 rack space by 12" deep and around 8lbs.
It's really an effect unit but one of the main effects is various tube
preamps and power amps, cabinets, mics, etc. It happens to be much
better than any of the traditional model but the designer says it's
not a modeler. Not sure what the differentiation is...
And yes, you still need a power amp. For a while I was using a stewart
1.2 power amp but now I'm running it through my clarus bass amp but it
sounds equally good through a P/A , home stereo, etc.
Feel free to call or email offline.
sheets
On Oct 11, 5:36 pm, "charles robinson" <robinsonch...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> The JazzKat people have some one tube amps out now, one with one ten and the
> other with dual tens. They are so new that they aren't even shown on the
> JazzKat site yet. Given that the non-tube JazzKat has such a great sound
> there is a good possibility that these might even be better.
> Charlie
>
> "Charlie X" <diymu...@excite.com> wrote in message
Joey Goldstein
getting from the AXE-FX?
Any clips at all?
--
Joey Goldstein
http://www.joeygoldstein.com
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/joeygoldstein
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
sheets
> Hey Jack...Did you ever post any clips of the clean jazz tones you're
> getting from the AXE-FX?
> Any clips at all?
>
> --
> joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
Not yet. 'm using it for a duo CD I'm working on. I'll try to post
some stuff this weekend.
charles robinson
Charlie
"sheets" <jackz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192142295.5...@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Chickenhead
spent checking out that Rambler at American Music -- That's a bit of a
coincidence. I can't remember which amp you liked with the 7 string, but I
don't think you were happy with the low end on any of them with the 7.
-Kurt "Chickenhead" Shapiro
"Jim Soloway" <j...@jimsoloway.com> wrote in message
news:1192137726....@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> And ChickenHead, I would never suggest
lfio
amp in stock - One Flight Up Guitars in New Haven Connecticut. So I
took a ride down there with my guitar to check it out. As soon as I
asked about the amp, he jumped all over me - "what's your price? I
dont want you trying out the amp and then buying it on the net". I
told him that I'd definitely prefer to buy the actual amp I play, so
as long as his price was in line with what I've seen elsewhere, we'd
be good. He then told me that the list was $2800, his sale price was
$2100 and the best he could do was $1800 (which is $300 more than I
typically see it for sale). He then offered to let me audition the amp
for $100. Insane! I understand the challanges that the small music
store is up against these days, but this guy's business model is just
whacked. Oh yeah - and he also told me that the amp has been in the
store for about 2 years. Geez...I wonder why he cant seem to sell
it?!?
So needless to say, I told the guy what I thought about his business
practices and left the store without trying the amp. I think it was a
sign from above to buy the Carr. Perhaps, when this idiot goes out of
business and liquidates , I'll buy the Heritage at below cost.
All of the feedback has been great - thanks so much.
Lou
On Oct 11, 11:52 pm, "Chickenhead"
> > And ChickenHead, I would never suggest- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
tom walls
lf...@optonline.net says...
>
> OK...check this out...I found a local dealer with a Heritage Burrell
> amp in stock - One Flight Up Guitars in New Haven Connecticut. So I
> took a ride down there with my guitar to check it out. As soon as I
> asked about the amp, he jumped all over me - "what's your price? I
> dont want you trying out the amp and then buying it on the net". I
> told him that I'd definitely prefer to buy the actual amp I play, so
> as long as his price was in line with what I've seen elsewhere, we'd
> be good. He then told me that the list was $2800, his sale price was
> $2100 and the best he could do was $1800 (which is $300 more than I
> typically see it for sale). He then offered to let me audition the amp
> for $100. Insane! I understand the challanges that the small music
> store is up against these days, but this guy's business model is just
> whacked. Oh yeah - and he also told me that the amp has been in the
> store for about 2 years. Geez...I wonder why he cant seem to sell
> it?!?
>
> So needless to say, I told the guy what I thought about his business
> practices and left the store without trying the amp. I think it was a
> sign from above to buy the Carr. Perhaps, when this idiot goes out of
> business and liquidates , I'll buy the Heritage at below cost.
>
> All of the feedback has been great - thanks so much.
>
> Lou
>
>
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
tom walls
kuNOSPAMrts...@hotmail.com says...
tomb...@jhu.edu
> OK...check this out...I found a local dealer with a Heritage Burrell
> amp in stock - One Flight Up Guitars in New Haven Connecticut. So I
> took a ride down there with my guitar to check it out. As soon as I
> asked about the amp, he jumped all over me - "what's your price? I
> dont want you trying out the amp and then buying it on the net". I
> told him that I'd definitely prefer to buy the actual amp I play, so
> as long as his price was in line with what I've seen elsewhere, we'd
> be good. He then told me that the list was $2800, his sale price was
> $2100 and the best he could do was $1800 (which is $300 more than I
> typically see it for sale). He then offered to let me audition the amp
> for $100. Insane! I understand the challanges that the small music
> store is up against these days, but this guy's business model is just
> whacked. Oh yeah - and he also told me that the amp has been in the
> store for about 2 years. Geez...I wonder why he cant seem to sell
> it?!?
I'd enjoy watching that guy try to pick up women.
jim
"lfio" <lf...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1192065776.4...@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>
> I'm curious about the Heritage Kenny Burrell amp. From what I'm
> reading, Heritage amps are very high quality, and the higher wattage
> appeals to me.
I've been playing the KB Freedom 40 for a year with my 30 year old 175. I
like it. Very solidly built with a beautiful jazz sound, one input, one
volume, no separate gain, lots of clean headroom, loud, nice reverb. I
think they're made for a classic jazz sound, period.
My .02.
Jim
Rick Ross
"lfio" <lf...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1192188592.4...@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> OK...check this out...I found a local dealer with a Heritage Burrell
> amp in stock - One Flight Up Guitars in New Haven Connecticut. So I
> took a ride down there with my guitar to check it out. As soon as I
> asked about the amp, he jumped all over me - "what's your price? I
> dont want you trying out the amp and then buying it on the net". I
> told him that I'd definitely prefer to buy the actual amp I play, so
> as long as his price was in line with what I've seen elsewhere, we'd
> be good. He then told me that the list was $2800, his sale price was
> $2100 and the best he could do was $1800 (which is $300 more than I
> typically see it for sale). He then offered to let me audition the amp
> for $100. Insane! I understand the challanges that the small music
> store is up against these days, but this guy's business model is just
> whacked. Oh yeah - and he also told me that the amp has been in the
> store for about 2 years. Geez...I wonder why he cant seem to sell
> it?!?
>
> So needless to say, I told the guy what I thought about his business
> practices and left the store without trying the amp. I think it was a
> sign from above to buy the Carr. Perhaps, when this idiot goes out of
> business and liquidates , I'll buy the Heritage at below cost.
>
boutique amp manufacturers have always struggled to find adequate retail
representation...once they cross the line from direct to dealers it usually
gets ugly...
but many builders are so mired in the frustrating complexities of their in
house direct marketing they get sucked in to the allure of dealers doing the
selling for them so they can focus on building and product
development...IMHO, with very few exceptions, expensive boutique amps have
no business in music stores....builders are better off selling direct with
time limited unconditional return policy....I have owned and played several
high end amps and I cannot remember ever plugging into one that sounded
"bad" enough that I packed it up and sent it back...amps, like guitars, take
a while to work into your playing....you're not going to plug in and find
love at first pluck...it is unlikely you'll be disappointed with the
Carr...or anything in this category....
sheets
at low volumes like trio gigs with no drummer but it was swamped and
wooly/farty trying to play jazz with a loud drummer or electric keys
or sax. It had a great vintagey blues tone but once again, got muddy
at higher volume levels. It also ran EXTREMELY hot which carr told me
was normal and when I got the amp, the amp chassis had fallen out, It
turns out that the amp is bolted to the rear baffle board which was
held on by 4 wood screws into pine which wasn't very good for
longevity.
I'd look for a used fuchs or allen amp. They are both built like tanks
and get gorgeous jazz tones. Joe Jewell's cd was done with a Fuchs.
Rick Ross
"sheets" <jackz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192209384....@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
when I got the amp, the amp chassis had fallen out, It
> turns out that the amp is bolted to the rear baffle board which was
> held on by 4 wood screws into pine which wasn't very good for
> longevity.
>
that's scary..given the overall rep for relaibility
Todd Lainhart
I agree with the Fuchs comment. If you're in the market for that kind
of $$$ (which is where a new Carr would put you), see if you can get a
used Fuchs 50 ODS head. Lot's of jazzers (including JZ prior to the
Axe-FX) use Fuchs gear.
Chickenhead
a lot. Even sent back east to Carr once. The only prob I ever had was when
the power tubes died. New tubes and back in business -- Unfortunately, I
sent it to Carr for them to figure out instead of buying fresh tubes. I
will say, however, that they were quite nice and understanding about it,
didn't charge me a ridiculous fee for being so stupid as to send them an amp
that only needed new power tubes, and they didn't even charge me to ship it
back.
Jazz with a loud drummer and the Carr doesn't work. Especially in a large
room. If the drummer's doing brushes or has a light touch, it's fine. Also
depends on the room. In my limited experience, it seems to depend as much
on the room as the drummer.
It's not that it's too quiet in a loud situation, it just, as Jack so
perfectly said, turns "wooly/farty." At that point it'd do a fine vintage
blues tone or sound okay with a solid body, but with a hollow-body trying to
do a clean jazz sound it's not happening. Maybe the trick is to mic it
through the PA -- I haven't tried that yet on a gig.
One thing to keep in mind though: The amplifier section puts out a lot of
bass, so when you turn it up to that point, you have to back the bass knob
off or the speaker and cab can't really handle it. I actually got that
information from Carr, and there's a lot of truth to it -- The amp wasn't
designed play loud without rolling the bass knob back even if you're looking
for a vintage blues tone.
For myself, I came to the conclusion that I just wasn't going to find an amp
that did everything perfectly in every situation. The Rambler is a
one-trick pony. It does medium and low-volume clean jazz tone better than
anything I've tried so far. It does that one trick very well. I decided it
was better to have two tube amps -- The Carr for low-volume situations and a
higher wattage tube head for when I need the headroom -- Rather than
compromise at either end. Fortunately, an excellent used high-wattage all
tube head didn't cost me much; I didn't go boutique, but just looked for a
tube head with lots of power and a great clean sound.
I'm probably infamous for playing cheapo Chinese and Korean slave-labor jazz
boxes on the gig, but the Rambler's a different story. It really DOES make
that much of a difference. My $200 Arbor White Falcon copy through the
right amp sounds better than my Wes through the wrong amp.
Also, for most pop/funk/blues gigs, I use my upgraded PV C30. In those
situations, I'm usually playing a single-coiled solid-body anyways. So far,
I just haven't found an amp that does everything and every situation so well
that I'm not compromising at some point. I decided it was better to have
different amps for different gigs, than try to make one amp work for every
gig. It could happen someday though -- I just haven't found that one amp
yet. This being a pretty competitive business, I really don't have the
luxury of being able to compromise too much: If I don't sound at least as
good as the last group that played somewhere, then I can pretty much kiss
the gig goodbye. As musicians, we tend to think our civilian audiences
won't know the difference. I've not found that to be true: Often they
can't describe why something sounds better, but civilians still feel it.
Tone and timbre is just as important to non-musician audiences as other
musical considerations, probably even more so. Most of the gigs I do don't
pay me for my genius and virtuousity (nyuk, nyuk), so I HAVE to get a good
tone.
There's a lot of pricey gear that really isn't going to sound any better
than cheap gear, but some pricey gear really does sound substantially
better. To me, the Carr is one of those.
Spending $15,000 on a vintage 64 strat to "ooh" and "ahh" over would be
ridiculous in my case. So would spending a fortune on a Dumble or a genuine
59 Fender Buxmaster Reverb so gearheads could drool over it. Even a nice
luthier-made archtop is out of my league. The current crop of overpriced
re-issue and new "closet classic" guitars and amps seems pretty silly to me.
However, spending an extra grand on an amp that sounds a LOT better and gets
regularly gigged, is not the same. Even spending an extra grand two or
three times, to buy different amps for different regular gigging situations,
seems pretty reasonable to me.
I've never had the pleasure of playing an Allen or Fuchs, so I have no
opinion whatsoever on the comparison. It'd certainly be worth checking out.
If I could find one around here to check out, I'd love to do it. I'd be
surprised if either one did a clean sound as well as the Carr but at both
high and low volume. If I could find an amp that sounded like the Rambler,
but at both low and high volume levels, I'd be tickled pink.
I think it's just one of the difficulties of working with tubes -- that
different amps and configurations have their sweet spots at different volume
levels. Also, the Rambler is not that heavy; it weighs less than a Fender
HRD. If you want a lot of headroom from a tube amp, you're going to pay for
it with weight. The Rambler is quite carry-able for a tube combo, which
makes it especially appealing for certain gigs. I think that was part of
the intention when they designed it, thus the name "Rambler."
It works great in, say, a small or medium restaurant where you might be
doing a drummerless duo or trio, or working with a brush drummer -- In that
situation, it seems to really fill the room with a velvet blanket. I
haven't been able to duplicate that sound and quality at that volume level
with other amps, even tube amps. The higher powered tube rigs I've used
that sound better than the Carr at high volume just don't seem to have the
Carr's quality and dimension to the sound when I've had them at lower volume
levels.
If you don't want to compromise, you'll probably have to own more than one
amp. Nuthin' wrong with that though ;-D
"sheets" <jackz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192209384....@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
sheets
drums) and the carr sounded beautiful for those gigs. Regarding using
different amps for different gigs - I know several guitarists who use
that tactic. Bollenback was using a vibrolux reverb for small gigs and
a twin for large gigs though the last time I saw him he was using a
polytone.
Jazzer
<kuNOSPAMrts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>For lo-dough, that Peavey Classic 100 head kicks major gluteus maximus. I
>got mine for $250. With a Redstone 10V or RE12 cab, it's a monster with as
>much headroom as I've ever needed. I'd love to try it with a Redstone 12
>someday. Even with a good cab, the total price was still less than a used
>DRRI -- And it has a LOT more headroom than a DRRI.
>
>It's not quite as sweet as the Carr, but it gets 85-90% there; plus, unlike
>the Carr, it's got enough headroom for just about anything. It's a PITA to
>lug around, seeing as it weighs about 40 pounds. It's the closest I've been
Hi Chicken.
I'm just wondering why you mentioned it was a PITA to lug around at
40 lbs (Peavey) when the Carr site mentions the Rambler is also 40lbs?
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Charlie X
Pt
> I found a local store that had a few of the amps I wanted to check
> out. I played through a Carr Rambler, and Fender Deluxe Reissue and a
> Koch Twintone. The Carr was my favorite - the Deluxe was quite nice
> as well. The were similar, but to my ears the Carr was like a more
> transparent Deluxe. The tone of my guitar came across much more with
> the Carr. Also, it seemed perfectly tuned for an archtop. No
> feedback even at high volumes. The Twintone was definitely not what I
> was looking for.
> I'm curious about the Heritage Kenny Burrell amp. From what I'm
> reading, Heritage amps are very high quality, and the higher wattage
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Lou
Since when do jazzers actually care about tone?
Pt
Gerry
> Since when do jazzers actually care about tone?
--
Those who wish to sing always find a song. -- Swedish proverb
Mitch
> I found a local store that had a few of the amps I wanted to check
> out. I played through a Carr Rambler, and Fender Deluxe Reissue and a
> Koch Twintone. The Carr was my favorite - the Deluxe was quite nice
> as well. The were similar, but to my ears the Carr was like a more
> transparent Deluxe. The tone of my guitar came across much more with
> the Carr. Also, it seemed perfectly tuned for an archtop. No
> feedback even at high volumes. The Twintone was definitely not what I
> was looking for.
>
> I'm curious about the Heritage Kenny Burrell amp. From what I'm
> reading, Heritage amps are very high quality, and the higher wattage
> appeals to me. Any feedback on how it compared to the Carr would be
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Lou
Mitch
TD
van
that I'm starting to get GAS for... Great sound.
Mitch
Mitch
rpjazzguitar
It worked reliably for about 35 years and then started having problems. Caps and so forth. I had all the work done and after 45 years or so put in new tubes.
The amp does not sound the same. It is impossible to get all NOS tubes for this amp (I got as many as I could). It breaks up a little bit quicker than it used to. Just enough to make chords sound muddy.
This has led me to wonder how easy it really would be to duplicate the old sounds, even with the same gear, unless you can really get NOS.
TD
Pt
Did you replace the speaker?
Pt
David J. Littleboy
>> The amp does not sound the same. It is impossible to get all NOS tubes
>> for this amp (I got as many as I could). It breaks up a little bit
>> quicker than it used to. Just enough to make chords sound muddy.
>>
>> This has led me to wonder how easy it really would be to duplicate the
>> old sounds, even with the same gear, unless you can really get NOS.
>
>Speakers wear out too.
>Did you replace the speaker?
think newer design speakers would be more efficient, handle more power, and
if not sound better at least offer you a choice of sounds.
Also, an amp that "didn't used to break up so quickly" may be an amp that's
being played by someone who's playing a lot louder than they used to. Twenty
years of gradual hearing deterioration and things ain't like what they used
to be. Or you are just getting better and actually have real musical need of
more volume.
Whatever, 20 years is a long time, especially if you've been working on your
music.
--
David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
John A.
John
rpjazzguitar
I was able to get tubes with the right numbers. 7591 etc. Some are JJ, some are Tungsol and I think there are some NOS GE tubes in there.
It still has some intermittent problem in the reverb circuit that causes it to make loud unpleasant noises occasionally. I can deal with it by turning the reverb to zero, but the thing that makes that amp great is the reverb. Eventually, if I find a local tube amp genius, I'll give him a shot at it.
van
van
> I found a local store that had a few of the amps I wanted to check
> out. I played through a Carr Rambler, and Fender Deluxe Reissue and a
> Koch Twintone. The Carr was my favorite - the Deluxe was quite nice
> as well. The were similar, but to my ears the Carr was like a more
> transparent Deluxe. The tone of my guitar came across much more with
> the Carr. Also, it seemed perfectly tuned for an archtop. No
> feedback even at high volumes. The Twintone was definitely not what I
> was looking for.
>
> I'm curious about the Heritage Kenny Burrell amp. From what I'm
> reading, Heritage amps are very high quality, and the higher wattage
> appeals to me. Any feedback on how it compared to the Carr would be
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Lou
I've also got two "coffee can" SRO EV 12s sitting around loose, but they're too heavy to put in the Twin.
Some guy out of state wanted to buy them, but it's too much trouble to ship them.
I hated the way my B-120 sounded through the Twin, but that was when it had a SD/SL pickup on it. I had Roger Borys put in a KA pickup specially made for the B-120 guitars, but I haven't played it through the Twin yet.
My Parker P-44 sounds great through the Twin, but it's not a jazz sound.
Mitch
Mitch