Amp or no Amp????
Sam Smiley
Epiphone Emperor guitar and Roland Blues Cube amp (both sound great!). My
tone amplified is similar to Jim Hall's, or if I'm in a bass-guitar duo I
use a tone that has the accoustic sound, but amplified (similar to Mark
Whitfield on the Marksman). Anyways, I play a little differently without an
amp than I do with one. I always use an amp when I play gigs or sessions,
but I never use one to practice. So today I finally realized, I should
pracice with an amp!! I know it sounds dumb of me to go so long without
using it.
So... I just wondered if anyone thinks you should practice with or with out
an amp. Or if anyone thinks I should pracitce with or without an amp.
Thanks for any input.
Michael Fitzgerald
<dolp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Anyways, I play a little differently without an
>amp than I do with one. I always use an amp when I play gigs or sessions,
>but I never use one to practice. So today I finally realized, I should
>pracice with an amp!! I know it sounds dumb of me to go so long without
>using it.
>So... I just wondered if anyone thinks you should practice with or with out
>an amp. Or if anyone thinks I should pracitce with or without an amp.
How's this for good advice from the big names? I included the whole
quote because there's a lot of good info from Ted.
------------------
TED DUNBAR: Les Spann, a guitarist who played with Dizzy Gillespie,
told me about Wes because I also used my thumb. I was in pharmacy
school at the time and, as luck would have it, my class visited an
Indianapolis company in 1957, which was when I first met him. In about
1960 I ended up getting a job in a drug store right across the street
from the Missile Room where he played. After I'd close up, I'd play
and hang out with him. When he left to make Full House (Riverside)
with Miles Davis's rhythm section, I took his place in his group for a
couple of months.
When I first met Wes we talked about playing with the thumb, and he
said, "Control is a bitch, ain't it?" He told me to practice with my
amp because the guitar and the amp are one instrument. That made so
much sense. He perfectly understood how his thumb worked and he
treated it like a science. He also talked about phrasing, saying, "You
have to phrase everything you play. No note should be wasted;
everything inside a statement should be economical and to the point.
The phrasing should have a feeling on it." He was that specific. He
understood music with only his ears. Buddy and Monk also had that kind
of talent.
One day I asked Wes how he got such a fantastic sound out of his old
Gibson amp. He took me to a raggedy radio shop where a guy with a
cigarette hanging out of his mouth and glasses down on his nose did
something that made it respond the instant you'd touch the guitar. You
could play his instrument with only your left hand-that's how
sensitive his set-up was.
Wes once said, "You know, I don't have to play." He meant that he
wasn't going to die if he couldn't play the guitar. I learned a lot
from that statement. He had a large family and he was going to do
whatever it took to fulfill his responsibilities. Playing came so damn
easy to him. He was always just smiling and laughing like it was
nothing. He was one of those unique human beings who understands the
qualities that make good music. He didn't try to impress anyone. Even
though he practiced, he didn't have to do it 18 hours a day. I've
never seen anyone like him.
Source: Ferguson, Jim, "Portrait of Wes", Jazz Times, August 1995, p.
32.
-------------
Mike
David C. Stephens
playing with the amp on if you don't practice it.
Dave
Sam Smiley <dolp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8hebnd$33i$1...@news.wmich.edu...
> I was thinking about something. I never practice with an amp. I have an
> Epiphone Emperor guitar and Roland Blues Cube amp (both sound great!). My
> tone amplified is similar to Jim Hall's, or if I'm in a bass-guitar duo I
> use a tone that has the accoustic sound, but amplified (similar to Mark
> Whitfield on the Marksman). Anyways, I play a little differently without
an
> amp than I do with one. I always use an amp when I play gigs or sessions,
> but I never use one to practice. So today I finally realized, I should
> pracice with an amp!! I know it sounds dumb of me to go so long without
> using it.
> So... I just wondered if anyone thinks you should practice with or with
out
> an amp. Or if anyone thinks I should pracitce with or without an amp.
> Thanks for any input.
>
>
Sam Smiley
instrument.
YES!! This is what I think I was looking for. And from the master!
John C. Link III
Michael Fitzgerald wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Jun 2000 15:40:11 -0400, "Sam Smiley"
> <dolp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Anyways, I play a little differently without an
> >amp than I do with one. I always use an amp when I play gigs or sessions,
> >but I never use one to practice. So today I finally realized, I should
> >pracice with an amp!! I know it sounds dumb of me to go so long without
> >using it.
> >So... I just wondered if anyone thinks you should practice with or with out
> >an amp. Or if anyone thinks I should pracitce with or without an amp.
>
cripe
practice w/it. My touch w/amps has mainly come from lots of playing out
w/various amplifiers in various situations.
But, the idea of the amp and the guitar comprising one instrument is right
on.
David C. Stephens wrote in message <393ad...@news1.prserv.net>...
Mark Kleinhaut
"David C. Stephens" <dcs...@ibm.net> wrote:
> I always practice with my amp. I don't see how you can develop the
touch for
> playing with the amp on if you don't practice it.
>
>
Well, I think I should just offer an alternative opinion here. I
practice about 70% of the time without an amp. OTOH, I gig 100% with
my amp.
When I studied with Ted Dunbar at Rutgers (1975-1979), he did talk
about the importance of practicing with an amp, but he also spent a lot
of time teaching without being plugged in. And just about all of my
one-on-one lessons as well as the group lessons were unplugged. I
think Ted would have said to you that you should do it both with and
without. They are different and there are things to be gained from
each.
The guitar & amp being one instrument is ultimately true enough, and
when you play in a group there can be little doubt that this combined
voice is what everyone hears. But, I feel that development of tone and
voice on the instrument comes first and foremost from the guitar's
acoustic response to your touch, and that the amp's job then becomes to
faithfully amplify this voice. Keep in mind that my perspective comes
as an acoustic archtop (floating pickup) player and that I personally
do not care for things like effects such as compressors, chorus, and
distortion nor do I care much for the sound of solid body guitars
generally. When I try out archtop guitars I almost never plug them
in.
The challenge I find with translating my acoustic sound
(touch/response/tone) to the final amplified result is that the sound
varies considerable from room to room based on the acoustics of each
performance space. In otherwords, its not that the guitar & amp are a
single instrument (as Wes said) but it is the combination of guitar,
amp and room that form the complete sound or "instrument" that the
listener hears. Of course, this is why our amps have all those
wonderful knobs to play with, so that we can get our sound in what ever
room (hopefully) that fate throws us.
Add to the equation the variety of posible playing volumes and things
get still more complicated. I think we have all experienced how much
the tone and response changes depending on our volume. Some of this
has to do with the basic frequency response of human hearing (which is
decidedly non-linear, see "Fletcher Munson curves"), but it is also
true that rooms will resonate differently at different voluems. Oh,
and then if there are some people in the room it all changes again.
So, I guess I come back to practicing acoustically because, to me, that
is the source of the sound I'm going for. When I practice with the
amp, I turn its volume to a very low setting and sit very close to
it...this way virtually eliminating the effect of room acoustics. When
all is said and done... this blend of acoustic with soft amp (for low
end fullness) is really my concept of the perfect tone.
--
Mark Kleinhaut
Info and soundclips available at
www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Amphora.html
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Joe Finn
Sam Smiley wrote:
>
> So... I just wondered if anyone thinks you should practice with or with out
> an amp. Or if anyone thinks I should pracitce with or without an amp.
> Thanks for any input.
Well, on Friday night the weather in Lenox, Mass. was dreadful. Thunder and
lightning ruled the skies. On the job I stood with my trusty GB-10 plugged in as
per usual when the power failed. The configuration was piano, tenor and me. The
other guys had a good chuckle as we continued plowing through Ellington and
Strayhorn standards. I just chunked along for about an hour playing quarter
notes. That's life. This happened to me twice on the stand last year, too. With
newly reinforced respect and admiration for Freddie Green I'll say that it
wasn't too bad at all. It was fun. Did practicing acoustically prepare me for
this in some way? Not really.
As far as that goes, I like to break up the routine. I practice acoustic or
plugged in, different times of day, inside ,outside and even in the car waiting
to pick up my son after his tennis lesson. I think it helps me maintain a fresh
perspective. At least that's what I keep telling myself..... joe
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Victor Magnani
It took me about 25 years to figure out that it's important to practice
with an amp. So don't feel bad.
I spent most of that time playing solid or semi-hollow guitars, or lousy
acoustics. None of these do much for your tone. Now, after all this time
I have to start from ground zero to try and get a good tone.
For horn players, tone production is one of the most essential things that
they work on. Why should it be different for guitarists?
I do think that practicing with a good acoustic sounding instrument can be
about as good as practicing with an amp, or at least beneficial in it's own
way, but you have to play plugged in at least a fair amount of the time.
Victor
TomLippinc
philosophy.
I think it's important to be "intimate" with one's instrument acousically as
this is the true source of the sound, but in a "real" playing situation all
that changes (to greatly varying degrees). I went through a period years ago
where I was trying to practice (amplified) at "gig" volume levels after
realizing how different the sound, feel and response of the instrument was at
those volumes. That did help me but there is only so much you can do at home
to "duplicate" all the factors on an actual gig.
To me, one of the biggest variables for a gig that no one has really mentioned
(particularly for hollow body guitars) is interaction with other instruments.
When I was younger I used to constantly get frustrated when I'd play with a
drummer because the guitar suddenly sounded completely different. All the
playing techniques, amp settings, ect. that I'd worked on at home to get a nice
sound in my bedroom no longer seemed to work with drums and/or other
instruments like horns, or even piano. I think this is something you just have
to chalk up to experience; the more times you play in those kind of settings,
the more comfortable you get and the less an adverse environment will fluster
you.
I've been a solid body convert for a while now, partially based on my desire
for more consistency of sound and response in adverse environments. This is a
blanket statement (and just my experience), but I've found that it's easier to
get a good sound with a hollow body in my living room, and easier to get a good
sound with a solid body on a gig (or when playing in my living room WITH a
drummer, for that matter). I have other reasons for liking solid body
electrics; the (of course, again a generalization) easier playability, lack of
feedback problems, and additional sustain, but even with those factors
excluded, for me I'd rather be able to get a consistent sound I'm happy with on
gigs than to be ecstatic about my "living room tone" but constantly battling
with the frustrating realities of physics "in the trenches". I do think a lot
of players get great sounds with hollow body guitars, both live and on
recordings, so I'm not trying to say "I'm right and others are wrong" or
anything.
That's just what works for me. With that said, I do a good bit of my playing
on a semi hollow nylon string and with that instrument I face all the same
issues I would with a hollowbody jazz box. With this instrument, as I said
before, I've found that a good deal of experience playing both plugged and
unplugged seems to get the best results. Probably the two biggest things that
change for me when playing amplified nylon string are that the differences in
dynamics are more pronouced (so I have to be more exacting with my touch) and I
have to be more conscious of unwanted ringing open strings and/or feed back and
thus be more careful about dampening unplayed strings.
Tom Lippincott
peatea
I practice with an acoustic(elec) Ovation strung with 12's and unplugged.
I play loud Blues, Rock, jazz each Friday either through a Marshall stack
or a Fender Vibroverb and an American Fat Tele, Old Strat, 66 Rickenbacker
or SG Doubleneck. All my electrics are strung with 10s. By practicing on
heavier strings it makes my electric playing fast and easy. Then on
Sundays I play plugged in acoustic.
I have not yet mastered the best plugged in acoustic tone on this but a
recent purchase of a 462 Sonic Maximizer has helped considerably. I say
that as far as practicing goes (and I don't do enough of it) playing my
acoustic is best for my fingers. They gain strength and speed. But on the
onther hand since I live in a condo I can't experiment with the sounds I
want on the electrics. I use a Boss Bedal box with 6 devices with an
analog delay at the end. Many of my sounds are trial and error on the
spot. One of the biggest problems with the pedal board is that almost all
effects have a preamp volume and gain control. So I am going from preamp
to preamp to preamp etc = feedback. What ever happened to the days when
you just plugged your ES-335 into a non-reverb Fender tube amp?
Pt
Jose Paulo Xavier Pires
> Lots of people have made good points. I tend to go with the "do both"
> philosophy.
> (...)
> I've been a solid body convert for a while now, partially based on my desire
> for more consistency of sound and response in adverse environments. This is a
> blanket statement (and just my experience), but I've found that it's easier to
> get a good sound with a hollow body in my living room, and easier to get a good
> sound with a solid body on a gig (or when playing in my living room WITH a
> drummer, for that matter). I have other reasons for liking solid body
> electrics; the (of course, again a generalization) easier playability, lack of
> feedback problems, and additional sustain, but even with those factors
> excluded, for me I'd rather be able to get a consistent sound I'm happy with on
> gigs than to be ecstatic about my "living room tone" but constantly battling
> with the frustrating realities of physics "in the trenches". I do think a lot
> of players get great sounds with hollow body guitars, both live and on
> recordings, so I'm not trying to say "I'm right and others are wrong" or
> anything.
Pardon me if this is pretty silly, but I was wondering if your band
is not playing too loud.
Sometime ago, I faced similar problems due to the volume the band
was playing.
For example, our drummer plays well jazz and bossa, but he spent a
long while playing with rock bands and, after that, he was striking the
drumset too heavy, even when playing jazz and bossa.
(If the drummer plays too loud, the sax player plays too loud,
so will do the other folks and you will be forced to play too loud.)
First I though that something was wrong with my guitar,
but after a while I realized that something was wrong with
the band (!).
We took a long time working out on that issue and now a day
the volume we play allows me get a great tone with hollow
body guitars live, very similar to what I get at home.
JP
Chris Smart
TomLippinc (tomli...@aol.com) wrote:
: Lots of people have made good points. I tend to go with the "do both"
: philosophy.
Agree totally. I play a solid-body Les Paul type thing with .11-.52. At
night, when things are quiet in the house and I have to be quiet also, I
love playing it unplugged. I play more then for the vibrations through
my fingers and wrist then for the sound, although I can hear myself just
fine too.
Then I plug back in and discover all those ringing adjacent strings. <G>
How many others just love that acoustic feedback loop thing between
left-hand and instrument? I always judge guitars based on feel and
vibration transmission back up my hand, then their plugged-in tone.
TomLippinc
>Pardon me if this is pretty silly, but I was wondering if your band
>is not playing too loud.
>Sometime ago, I faced similar problems due to the volume the band
>was playing.
>
well, your point is certainly a valid one, but A) I play with quite a few
different musicians in different contexts and instrumentations, rather than
just with one specific group, B) I often don't have control over who the other
musicians on the gig are, C) I sometimes play in situations where it is
appropriate to play at louder volumes (for example, an outdoor concert doing
primarily fusion type stuff). I also have found that other factors like
audience noise or the acoustics of the room tend to have just as much influence
on the sound as the volume of the band. My point is, with a solid body guitar
I find that no matter what situation I may be going into, I can almost always
get a reasonably consistent tone.
Tom Lippincott
peatea
Smart) wrote:
I hate the volume wars. They happen too often and are difficult to control.
The cause is: One guy will turn up to solo and not turn down, so the rest
of the group turns up to be heard. In no time it is out of control.
Another reason is that someone will kick his effect in, most have volume
controls are are set too loud. It is hard to control without a volume cop
running back and forth between players and telling them to turn down.
Another thing I hate is when 6 different players play 6 different things at
the same time, between songs.
Pt
Mark Kleinhaut
pea...@earthlink.net (peatea) wrote:
>
> I hate the volume wars. They happen too often and are difficult to
control.
> The cause is: One guy will turn up to solo and not turn down, so the
rest
> of the group turns up to be heard. In no time it is out of control.
> Another reason is that someone will kick his effect in, most have
volume
> controls are are set too loud. It is hard to control without a
volume cop
> running back and forth between players and telling them to turn down.
> Another thing I hate is when 6 different players play 6 different
things at
> the same time, between songs.
> Pt
>
Sounds like you're describing a high school rock band! I thought I
read back a while a go that you were an old duffer. Are you reliving
your youth or something?
peatea
<dolp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I was thinking about something. I never practice with an amp. I have an
> Epiphone Emperor guitar and Roland Blues Cube amp (both sound great!). My
> tone amplified is similar to Jim Hall's, or if I'm in a bass-guitar duo I
> use a tone that has the accoustic sound, but amplified (similar to Mark
> Whitfield on the Marksman). Anyways, I play a little differently without an
> amp than I do with one. I always use an amp when I play gigs or sessions,
> but I never use one to practice. So today I finally realized, I should
> pracice with an amp!! I know it sounds dumb of me to go so long without
> using it.
> So... I just wondered if anyone thinks you should practice with or with out
> an amp. Or if anyone thinks I should pracitce with or without an amp.
> Thanks for any input.
I think that you should practice with exactly the same setup and volume as
you gig/jam with....but for me that is impossible. I live in a condo.
So I practice with an acoustic guitar strung with heavy strings. When I do
play electric (strung with 11's) it is fast and easy but it takes a while
to get the sound I want from my amp.
Pt
OASYSCO
>I hate the volume wars. They happen too often and are difficult to control.
>The cause is: One guy will turn up to solo and not turn down, so the rest
>of the group turns up to be heard. In no time it is out of control.
>Another reason is that someone will kick his effect in, most have volume
>controls are are set too loud. It is hard to control without a volume cop
>running back and forth between players and telling them to turn down.
>Another thing I hate is when 6 different players play 6 different things at
>the same time, between songs.
>Pt
When I played in a garage band many years ago (we even played out a few times),
my wife (who was then our singer) complained about what she called "guitar
wars" wherein we'd get louder and louder and louder until at the end of most
practice sessions, neighbors called the cops - and we were practicing indoors!
In addition to vocalists, we had 3 guitarists, a bassist, and a drummer.
I had a full Marshall stack with 8-12" Celestions, 100 watt (no master volume)
tube head; one guy had a Pignose head with a 4X10 cab, and the other guy had a
2x12 Peavy combo.
Guess who won those "guitar wars"? The other guys combined could not equal 1/2
of what my Marshall could put out.
Ah, the good ol' days!
Nowadays, the total wattage of all of my 4 amps combined is still less than 75%
of that single Marshall head which was sold to finance my wedding those many
moons ago.
Greg
peatea
> I've been a solid body convert for a while now, partially based on my desire
> for more consistency of sound and response in adverse environments.
Just wondering. What solid body guitar do you use?
Pt
peatea
<markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <peatea-ya02408000...@news.earthlink.net>,
> pea...@earthlink.net (peatea) wrote:
>
> >
> > I hate the volume wars. They happen too often and are difficult to
> control.
> > The cause is: One guy will turn up to solo and not turn down, so the
> rest
> > of the group turns up to be heard. In no time it is out of control.
> > Another reason is that someone will kick his effect in, most have
> volume
> > controls are are set too loud. It is hard to control without a
> volume cop
> > running back and forth between players and telling them to turn down.
> > Another thing I hate is when 6 different players play 6 different
> things at
> > the same time, between songs.
> > Pt
> >
>
> Sounds like you're describing a high school rock band! I thought I
> read back a while a go that you were an old duffer. Are you reliving
> your youth or something?
I'm not reliving my youth, I am STILL living it.
Pt
icarusi
news:peatea-ya02408000...@news.earthlink.net...
> What ever happened to the days when
> you just plugged your ES-335 into a non-reverb Fender tube amp?
> Pt
I did that recently. Well it was a Aria TA-40 and the Twin's reverb
was bust, but the result was the same. It sounded pretty good for some
rootsy bluesy stuff.
Icarusi
--
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TomLippinc
(I think that was a quote from me); frankenstrat
Tom Lippincott