Song with key changes: Layla?
Sherm
Sherm
Guy Snape
> Verse to chorus and back, perhaps?
> Sherm
OK ...
<gets guitar, launches spotify>
The riff and chorus go Dm Bb C which is in D minor (natural minor or
Aeolian if we want to be specific, because of the Bb and C natural). At
the end of the chorus, it pivots around E natural (pivot note is the
proper technical term), which is the natural third of C major and the
flattened third of C# minor, which is the first chord of the verse.
The verse goes
C#m G#m C#m A B E
F#m B E A
F#m B E
which is all very clearly in E major - starting the verse on the vi
(lower case indicates minor) chord is very distinctive. The key change
back to Dm happens via the next A chord on "Laaay ...", which is the IV
of E and also the V of Dm so it leads very naturally back into the
chorus. Although the root movement is just going round the cycle at that
point, it's taking us a long way harmonically (from four sharps to one
flat), which is very clever since in the preceding line the same A chord
appears in the same place and doesn't sound like it's taking us anywhere
at all. That F#m B E A is a similar progression to the first four chords
of Autumn Leaves, I've seen it described as a ii-V-I with an overshoot
as it goes round the cycle to the tonic and then one step further.
The lovely instrumental bit at the end is in C, it veers off from the C
in the uncompleted chorus/riff. There is a Bb in there which is
harmonically interesting - I think of it as a secondary subdominant, or
IV of IV (i.e. Bb is the fourth chord in F major, F is the fourth chord
in C major). This also crops up in the Sweet Home Alabama/Werewolves of
London progression D - C - G. Believe it or not, there have been heated
discussions amongst the theory geeks on rmmgj (j for jazz) about what
key Sweet Home Alabama is in! I've always loved the second chord in the
instrumental bit: it's just a 1st inversion C major chord (i.e. with E
in the bass, makes for a nice chromatic bass line going to the F),
always sounds so uplifting, cf. Nessun Dorma.
I could go on ... Great song, anyway.
- guy
anyt...@contractorcom.com
1) You're full of shit, Snape.
2) I Bet Clapton never gave the above a moment's thought.
3) 'Sweet Home Alabama' is in A all the way through.
4) You're still full of shit.
HTH,
Pete
norman...@verizon.net
wrote:
Man....
I have to laugh at myself..... I was fooling around with the chords
thinking... these are COMPLETELY wrong...
Was it the bridge?? The verse goes nothing like that....
I know the son pretty well..... Can't get the middle right... but
this is just wrong....
So I happily did what I know......
I met her in a club down in old Soho..............
Lola.... Then I looked again just now..... Doh!!!
Norman (The Homer Simpson Of The Acoustic World!) Draper
in...@altavista.com
wrote:
> The lovely instrumental bit at the end is in C
Actually, according to the web page over at http://www.zoeybot.com/soswp/wp/l/Layla.htm
, while the instrumental ending (coda) was indeed originally played in
C major "the coda was shifted in pitch microtonally and has no
distinct key."
Also, that famous coda to "Layla" was actually composed by Clapton's
drummer at the time, Jim Gordon, who in 1983 murdered his mother with
a hammer and knife. Gordon was sentenced to 16 years to life in a
mental hospital, with most his time served at the state institution
(booby hatch) in Atascadero, California--he's still locked up in an
asylum, by the way. An interview with Gordon from the hospital can be
found over at http://www.iem.ac.ru/clapton/articles/gordon.washpost.html
.
http://inyo.100webspace.net/daydreambeliever.mp3 (24kbps mp3--
unfortunately, my server won't allow uploads over 500kb).
My solo, acoustic, instrumental 6-string guitar version of "Daydream
Believer," composed by the late John Stewart; huge #1 hit for The
Monkees in late 1967. I can keep it on the server for a week or two, I
reckon.
Guy Snape
I know.
> 2) I Bet Clapton never gave the above a moment's thought.
Possibly not in those terms, but he would have known what keys he was
changing between.
> 3) 'Sweet Home Alabama' is in A all the way through.
No, it's not. The chords are D, C, and G. There is a case to be made for
it being in D or in G, but it definitely ain't in A.
> 4) You're still full of shit.
Thanks for the reminder.
- g.
>
> HTH,
>
> Pete
Sherm
<g...@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk> wrote:
>Possibly not in those terms, but he would have known what keys he was
>changing between.
I bet he know's Sweet Home Alabama's not in A.
Sherm
Sherm
<g...@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk> wrote:
>Sherm wrote:
>> Verse to chorus and back, perhaps?
>> Sherm
>
>OK ...
>
><gets guitar, launches spotify>
You rock, you guy you!
I like when I'm right.
And I like when Pete's wrong. :-)
Sherm
Guy Snape
You must live a happy life ;-)
- guy
>
> Sherm
Guy Snape
> On Mar 15, 9:55 am, Guy Snape <g...@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> The lovely instrumental bit at the end is in C
>
> Actually, according to the web page over at http://www.zoeybot.com/soswp/wp/l/Layla.htm
> , while the instrumental ending (coda) was indeed originally played in
> C major "the coda was shifted in pitch microtonally and has no
> distinct key."
How the heck did they manage that on a piano? The tuning of the whole
recording is about 1/4 tone higher than A=440, but that doesn't mean it
"has no distinct key", just that one of their tape machines was a bit
fast (whether deliberately or otherwise). It's not exactly Schoenberg.
> Also, that famous coda to "Layla" was actually composed by Clapton's
> drummer at the time, Jim Gordon, who in 1983 murdered his mother with
> a hammer and knife. Gordon was sentenced to 16 years to life in a
> mental hospital, with most his time served at the state institution
> (booby hatch) in Atascadero, California--he's still locked up in an
> asylum, by the way. An interview with Gordon from the hospital can be
> found over at http://www.iem.ac.ru/clapton/articles/gordon.washpost.html
I didn't know about that, what a sad state of affairs.
- guy
Guy Snape
> in...@altavista.com wrote:
>> On Mar 15, 9:55 am, Guy Snape <g...@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The lovely instrumental bit at the end is in C
>>
>> Actually, according to the web page over at
>> http://www.zoeybot.com/soswp/wp/l/Layla.htm
>> , while the instrumental ending (coda) was indeed originally played in
>> C major "the coda was shifted in pitch microtonally and has no
>> distinct key."
>
> How the heck did they manage that on a piano? The tuning of the whole
> recording is about 1/4 tone higher than A=440, but that doesn't mean it
> "has no distinct key", just that one of their tape machines was a bit
> fast (whether deliberately or otherwise). It's not exactly Schoenberg.
That page also says the verse is in C#m which is also wrong. The first
chord does not determine the key of a piece of music, although many
pieces do start on the tonic chord. The last chord, and any resolutions
are a far better guide, and there are two ii-V-Is to E, and no strong
resolutions to C#m. Imagine ending the song on the word "pride" and not
going into the chorus, the harmony would sound completed, no?
- guy
Sherm
<g...@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk> wrote:
>You must live a happy life ;-)
When the big dogs run, he should stay on the porch with me and Norm.
:-)
What coda are you guys talking about it? I haven't heard the original
in years, only the acoustic version.
Sherm
norman...@verizon.net
Hey,
I'm still working on Lola!! Leave me out of this!!
Norman (Umless There's Money Involved!) Draper
Guy Snape
> On Mar 16, 8:26 am, Sherm <wheezer1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:36:14 GMT, Guy Snape
>>
>> <g...@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk> wrote:
>>> You must live a happy life ;-)
>> When the big dogs run, he should stay on the porch with me and Norm.
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> What coda are you guys talking about it? I haven't heard the original
>> in years, only the acoustic version.
The bit where it changes tempo completely after the vocals finish and it
becomes piano led, with some slide guitar coming in after a while.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48skhbR_F0c&feature=related
(This one's in C, but some videos have it in C#)
- g.
RichL
> in...@altavista.com wrote:
>> On Mar 15, 9:55 am, Guy Snape <g...@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The lovely instrumental bit at the end is in C
>>
>> Actually, according to the web page over at
>> http://www.zoeybot.com/soswp/wp/l/Layla.htm , while the instrumental
>> ending (coda) was indeed originally played in
>> C major "the coda was shifted in pitch microtonally and has no
>> distinct key."
>
> How the heck did they manage that on a piano? The tuning of the whole
> recording is about 1/4 tone higher than A=440, but that doesn't mean
> it "has no distinct key", just that one of their tape machines was a
> bit fast (whether deliberately or otherwise). It's not exactly
> Schoenberg.
"has no distinct key" => Duane Allman's slide playing is out of tune
with the piano.
anyt...@contractorcom.com
wrote:
Have neither of you noticed? I ALWAYS say everything's in A!
Pete
anyt...@contractorcom.com
wrote:
Odd, isn't it? I love the single version of 'Layla' and actively
detest the extended version, whatever key it's in.
Pete
Guy Snape
Have you not noticed? We never listen to anything you say! :-)
- g.
>
> Pete
hank alrich
I try to listen, but I don't understand much of it.
--
ha
shut up and play your guitar
anyt...@contractorcom.com
wrote:
Neither do I - I just have to scribble it all down to get it out of my
brain...:-)
Pete
Misifus
> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:28:48 -0800, walk...@nv.net (hank alrich)
> wrote:
>
>> Guy Snape <g...@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> anyt...@contractorcom.com wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:26:10 -0500, Sherm <wheez...@sbcglobal.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:36:14 GMT, Guy Snape
>>>>> <g...@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You must live a happy life ;-)
>>>>> When the big dogs run, he should stay on the porch with me and Norm.
>>>>>
>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> What coda are you guys talking about it? I haven't heard the original
>>>>> in years, only the acoustic version.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sherm
>>>> Have neither of you noticed? I ALWAYS say everything's in A!
>>> Have you not noticed? We never listen to anything you say! :-)
>> I try to listen, but I don't understand much of it.
>
> Neither do I - I just have to scribble it all down to get it out of my
> brain...:-)
>
> Pete
It's yer accent, Pete. Almost as bad as Duff's.
-Raf
--
Misifus-
Rafael Seibert
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rafiii
home: http://www.rafandsioux.com
anyt...@contractorcom.com
wrote:
>anyt...@contractorcom.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:28:48 -0800, walk...@nv.net (hank alrich)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Guy Snape <g...@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> anyt...@contractorcom.com wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:26:10 -0500, Sherm <wheez...@sbcglobal.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:36:14 GMT, Guy Snape
>>>>>> <g...@snapefamily.theobvious.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You must live a happy life ;-)
>>>>>> When the big dogs run, he should stay on the porch with me and Norm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What coda are you guys talking about it? I haven't heard the original
>>>>>> in years, only the acoustic version.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sherm
>>>>> Have neither of you noticed? I ALWAYS say everything's in A!
>>>> Have you not noticed? We never listen to anything you say! :-)
>>> I try to listen, but I don't understand much of it.
>>
>> Neither do I - I just have to scribble it all down to get it out of my
>> brain...:-)
>>
>> Pete
>
>
>It's yer accent, Pete. Almost as bad as Duff's.
>
> -Raf
I've got Celtic ancestry - and I don't understand Duff either.
Thankfully, I understand Ethel perfectly...:-)
Pete
