Initial B-Band AST/UST evaluation
John Zyla
one to use (among other things) a B-Band soundboard pickup (AST) in
conjunction with an under-sadle B-Band (UST). Here are my first
impressions.
The equipment I installed uses the new model 2150 preamp - similar to
the Core99, but allows for then new pickup configuration. I installed
with the preamp at factory settings, which are bass boost ON, treble
boost OFF, gain reduction OFF, low cut filter OFF. This I installed
into my personal guitar, an 25+ year old Alvarez. I have Elixir extra
lights on the guitar, and these are what I usually use, though I
sometimes use other strings (DR, Martin, or D'Addario) on the guitar.
This guitar had a previously installed B-Band in it which I loved.
First impressions. Well. the B-Band under saddle pickup is pretty nice
in itself on this guitar. Clear and airy, and very sensitive. When I
installed the new pickup system, I did not have balance problems, so
no clay is in the saddle slot. The newest B-Band UST pickups seem to
not have string-to-string balance problems, at east in my limited
experience. The soundboard trancducer I mounted with the supplied
putty-like sticky adhesive, which works very well indeed in holding he
pickup to the wood, but is easily enough removed it you want to tweak
placement of the pickup. I mounted the pickup on the soundboard, on
the bass side, just below the bridgeplate between the inside of the
bass side x-brace and the first transverse brace. I want to try some
different placements, just for kicks to see what the effect is, but I
figure one needs to just choose a generally good (logical) spot, and
not try to fine-tune pickup placement with a soundboard pickup. You
can EQ for the small differences - - and personally, if I let myself
be anal about where I stick the thing, looking for an elusive "sweet
spot", I will drive myself crazy.
Ok. Sound. My first impression when I plugged the thing in was "man,
this thing is really "live"! " And it is, the B-Band UST itself is
rather sensitive, and when used with the new soundboard pickup, it's
just so more sensitive. I was expecting a more bassy sound, but the
effect I noticed was - in addition to the very "live" sound of the
system, the sound was very "crisp" and seemed to bring out a lot of
upper harmonic content. This is very subjective I realize - - so I
am just using words I can find to convey what my impressions of the
sound were.
Effect - well, I thought I would be wanting to immediately fiddle with
placement of the soundboard pickup, but the new sound was so
enjoyable, I ended up spending about 50 minutes just playing the
guitar and listening.
In summary, I will say that I like the sound of the new combination I
tried better than the B-Band UST alone - which I really liked too!
Very enchanting.
That's all!
Mark Pluimer
w/onboard blender) in a Larrivee D-05 and I love it-best acoustic sound I have
experienced. I am looking forward to getting a natural sound on another
guitar, but do not want to drill into the side. How do you adjust the blending
between the UST & AST???
Mark Pluimer
>John Zyla posts:
Rocky Jones
On 08 Feb 2001 17:13:54 GMT, mar...@aol.com (Mark Pluimer) wrote:
>Thanks for the evaluation. I have one of B-Bands New2 Frontier (mike and UST
>w/onboard blender) in a Larrivee D-05 and I love it-best acoustic sound I have
>experienced. I am looking forward to getting a natural sound on another
>guitar, but do not want to drill into the side. How do you adjust the blending
>between the UST & AST???
>
>Mark Pluimer
Hey Mark,
I, too, love the tone and flexibility of the New2 Frontier - I believe
it's the best of the onboard setups, particularly dual-sourced. In
fact, I'm looking to get another one semi-used or NOS (read: cheap)
that I can have installed in a Taylor 310. We'll see...
Regarding the UST/AST, I seem to recall reading (a Larry Pattis post?)
that the signals ran summed-together off the jack, w/o blending
capabilities. However, a deja-news search might come in handy here,
unless John clarifies it himself.
Blessings,
Rocky
Del 'ADIOS' to reply.
Tom Loredo
>
> >How do you adjust the blending
> >between the UST & AST???
It's as Rocky remembered---the two signals are passively mixed; there
is presently no adjustment. However, it may not have been clear from
John's post that the 2150 several of us are beta testing is just
that---a beta product. One of the things under consideration before
going to production is whether there should be some way to adjust
the balance. There is a tradeoff in cost and complexity that has
to be weighed. I don't think the B-Band folks have settled on it yet.
Stay tuned.
Peace,
Tom Loredo
Bill Chandler
the following, and served it to the group:
>Thanks for the evaluation. I have one of B-Bands New2 Frontier (mike and UST
>w/onboard blender) in a Larrivee D-05 and I love it-best acoustic sound I have
>experienced. I am looking forward to getting a natural sound on another
>guitar, but do not want to drill into the side. How do you adjust the blending
>between the UST & AST???
<snipped John's excellent B-Band review>
Mark--Have you checked out Pick-Up The World? No drilling needed,
just put the pickup element in the guitar. I use PUTW #27 pickups on
both my Guild dreads (6 & 12 string), and have never used (or even
heard) a pickup with such clean, natural sound. I run these through a
Baggs PADI, and into the house PA and my Fender Acoustasonic Jr.
Drop David Enke a line at pic...@rmi.net -- he'll take good care of
you. Their website is http://www.pick-uptheworld.com/ .
Not an employee--just a very satisfied customer.
-----
"The truth knocks on the door, and you say, 'Go away, I'm
looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling."
--Robert M. Pirsig, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
the above e-mail address remains totally fictional.
the real one is bc9424@spamTHIS!.concentric.net (if you remove spamTHIS!.)
Bill Chandler
...bc...
mike...@my-deja.com
zylaN...@joymail.com (John Zyla) wrote:
> I found the time to install the new B-Band pickup system that allows
> one to use (among other things) a B-Band soundboard pickup (AST) in
> conjunction with an under-sadle B-Band (UST). Here are my first
> impressions.
>
John:
I understand that connections in the new pre-amp for the UST and the
AST are "stacked" into the same channel, and that another channel is
available to pass through the signal of an on-board mic? Is this the
case? If so, I assume the output in your test was mono, with no
ability to separately EQ the UST and AST? Is this a problem? What
external pre-amp/DI were you using?
Mike
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Graham & Carolyn Vest
Has anyone tried using simply the mic and the AST?
I use an internal mic (A-T Pro-95) alone, which does a wonderful job of
recreating the sound of the guitar through a PA, but I also like an external
mic to pick up the other tones from the soundboard that the internal misses
(or does not project as well). Wouldn't a soundboard transducer be good at
picking up these (soundboard) tones?
I'll admit I'm not excited about installing an UST, nor have I experienced
the wonders of the B-band that many rave about. I'm just curious how the
mic/AST sounds (and if my theory has any merit whatsoever).
sonically inquisitive,
Graham
Bob Dorgan
I don't think so.
I'm speaking generally here, but an internal mic and a soundboard
transducer sound quite a bit like each other.
Plus you'd have the perfect combo for uncontrollable feedback.
Bob Dorgan
Hmemerson
>
Hi Graham,
I've been using a sound-board pickup and internal mic for over 7 years
now.Prior to that I only used a soundboard pickup, and I put my first one in a
guitar in 1970.
Your logic is very 'sound'.
regards,
Howard Emerson
Bob Dorgan
And you do have great live sound.
Very natural.
I'd like to get the chance to hear that set up in a setting where higher
volumes are required.
Since you've combined the two, have you played in a large venue, or in a
very crowded area where you had to push the amp?
Bob Dorgan
Tony Rairden
at least in the US, superceding EMF Acoustics...), but IIRC, the 2150
is stereo out, with stacked ASTs passively summed in one channel and
the B-Band UST in the other. A mic is not part of the mix, as B-Band
feels the AST(s... you can use one or two...) has (have) the mic
component of the sound pretty well covered. It's a great-sounding rig!
Tony Rairden
First Quality Musical Supplies
www.fqms.com
<mike...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:95v5m5$h76$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Hmemerson
>Very natural.
>I'd like to get the chance to hear that set up in a setting where higher
>volumes are required.
>Since you've combined the two, have you played in a large venue, or in a
>very crowded area where you had to push the amp?
Hi bob,
I almost always request that the soundmen ,"Set it flat and make it loud. I'll
take it from there". While playing solo, I tend to like the house system to be
loud and I use my Fishman AP-8 amp as a monitor for the guitar, with my vocals
going into the stage monitors. If I'm playing a smaller venue, I plug my
guitars into a Pocket Blender and on into the second channel of the amp. My
vocal mic then goes into the first channel. I'm good to go with this setup for
about 2-300 people depending on the room layout. The amp goes up on a stand, to
my right and slightly in back of me so that I can hear it well, but not have
much of a feedback problem.
Although I'm strictly solo, the system can function at much higher volumes as
long as you use a soundhole cover.
At some point, though, if the volume is at hard-rock band volume, the
naturalness of the acoustic takes a back seat to just cutting through the mix
and sounding vaguely like an acoustic, with no chance of feedback, which is
where a bridge pickup is shown to it's best advantage.
Hope this helps,
Howard Emerson
PS-For those who haven't seen it, the July 2000 Martin Sounding Board
Newsletter has an article that I wrote that goes into other detail about how
I've come to amplify my guitars. I do clinics for Martin and I'm a Fishman
Transducers performing Artist.
Bob Dorgan
Thanks Howard.
I'm dealing with the "cutting through the mix" at rock band volumes
right now. I've been filling in with a local band recently and the
blender and the mic are worthless at this level.
I'm using a b-band undersaddle, and can get enough volume from it alone,
but it's definately a compromise of tone without the mic.
I tried my Martin D18 with Fishman last week on one song and the quack
was pretty pronounced. These kids I'm playing with thought it sounded
great, but I couldn't keep the sour expression off my face.
I'm going to pick up a soundhole cover today and give that a shot this
weekend.
Bob Dorgan
John Zyla
I have not used a sound hole cover but I have seen one used (Scott
Denté uses one with his Langejans) and he gets pretty darned loud in
concert.
John
On Fri, 09 Feb 2001 14:14:22 GMT, Bob Dorgan <d77...@epix.net> wrote:
<snip)
John Zyla
pickups on the summed connector, or one AST and one UST on it, then
there is the MIC input too, it remains. I have the mic, AST and UST
installed on mine, but I do not use the mic.
John
John Zyla
summed. So, you need to conceptually think of the AST and UST as one
pickup. One very nice sounding pickup. :)
There is a connector for an internal mic in the preamp and this is
just passed out to one output on the stereo jack, so you have can
blend the mic and pickup(s) externally, with the method of your
choice.
John ZYla
Graham & Carolyn Vest
Most of what I do plugged in is solo, small venue stuff. When I have a
chance to work in larger, often outdoor, situations, or with a group I use a
baggs dual-source in a Gibson Gospel with the mike just up enough, depending
on the place. Bass players, in a smallish spot can get the feedback rolling
quickly on the mic, and I'd assume a soundboard transducer, too.
I am also anxious to hear how the baggs i-beam sounds. Anything to avoid the
quack
Graham (ducking)
David
"Graham & Carolyn Vest" <ggha...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:96283v$qhp$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
Graham,
now I know the reason for those (ducking) functions are that you find on
some compressor/limiters.
It is a pretty strange feeling when someone else's instrument can cause you
to start feeding back.
Suggestions:
Maybe try to position yourself away from being in front of the bass player's
cabinet as much as possible, and go with the ribbon to avoid the microphone
feedback.
The Bagg's ribbon isn't especially prone to 'quack', so are you sure your
sound-person isn't turning off all your bass to avoid feedback due to the
circumstances?
At the point where the mid-frequencies cross with the bass on the mixing
console, that could be right where the 'quack' appears, and the compensation
from the board is giving you an exaggerated tone.
???
David Enke
Pick-up the World
www.pick-uptheworld.com
pic...@rmi.net
800-375-2656>
Tony Rairden
toward stacked (passively summed) ASTs in one channel and the B-Band UST in
the other. The thinking is that the ASTs' sound is so mic-like that a mic
would be redundant...
Tony Rairden
First Quality Musical Supplies
www.fqms.com
"John Zyla" <zylaN...@joymail.com> wrote in message
news:3a841a0e...@news.cs.ohiou.edu...
Graham & Carolyn Vest
you're right the baggs is less a quacker. The situation I mentioned was from
practicing with a band this past summer in a small basement room. I could
run, but I could not hide. Now that you mention it, I did cut back on my
bass to avoid the feedback.
Another reason why this is a great group.
Graham