Tacoma neck replacement

[Tom Reese]

I have a guitar kit that I started quite a while ago and stalled out
on because the neck fitting process intimidated me.

I also have a Tacoma DM9 with a cracked neck that needs replacement
among other issues.

I'd like to replace the neck on the Tacoma as practice for the kit
guitar but first I need to get a new neck for it.

Can anyone tell me if a Martin neck from the 1833 shop would fit the
Tacoma? Did Tacoma use the same dovetail or is it different? Should I
order one from Stewmac instead? Some other source?

Is it practical to plan to reuse the fretboard or should I plan on a
new one?

thanks for any help you can offer.

[Steve Hawkins]

Tom Reese <tomr...@comcast.net> wrote in news:67eada9b-cca5-46b0-9221-
4b58f3...@v14g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

Doing the Garth Brooks thing with your Tacoma? Your best bet is too take
off the neck and see what you have, IMHO.

Steve Hawkins

[JD]

Most Tacoma guitars have a bolt-on neck with the
notable exception of their archtop so the Martin
neck is out. It's doubtful that a StewMac bolt-on
would match the Tacoma's bolt pattern.

[Tom Reese]

On Jan 25, 12:59 pm, Steve Hawkins
<stephen.hawki...@frontier.comREMOVETHIS> wrote:
> Tom Reese <tomre...@comcast.net> wrote in news:67eada9b-cca5-46b0-9221-
> 4b58f3187...@v14g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

> Steve Hawkins- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

this guitar was never completely right and now it's worse but I like
the way it sounds. I think it's worth the effort and I could only make
it worse by smashing it. I was trying to get some idea what I was
getting into before I started but you're right.

Someone on another forum said that Tacomas have bolt on necks so it
won't work as practice for the kit but it will still be an interesting
exercise. I have a couple heat lamps so I'll go to work on the
fingerboard and see what happens from there.

thanks for the reply Steve

[Tom Reese]

> would match the Tacoma's bolt pattern.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

thanks for the reply JD. you're the second person who said they're
bolt on so that's probably correct.

I can probably do what I need to to get the stewmac neck to fit. It's
worth a try. Tacoma as a company is apparently out of business so my
only chance is to cobble something together or try to make one from a
block. I'll work on removing the old one and see what I have.

[JD]

Fender bought Tacoma. Maybe you can get a neck
through them? I'd try that before I tried to
retrofit something to the existing block. If
you're planning on using both the StewMac neck
*and* heel block it could work.

[Steve Hawkins]

Tom Reese <tomr...@comcast.net> wrote in news:9784a1ef-b8ce-4173-9fe0-
94d294...@o13g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:

I believe you're right on the bolt-on. Check that the fingerboard
extension isn't bolted down too, some builders don't glue them. If it's
a butt fit, you might be able to convert a replacement neck to a bolt
neck with some modifications and hardware. Keep us informed and don't
forget to use the Mad Scientist's laugh every once in awhile.

Steve Hawkins

[Tom Reese]

> *and* heel block it could work.- Hide quoted text -

Possibly get a neck from Fender but I think they'd want me to pay
them to do the work and the guitar isn't worth that expense. That's
what they told someone on the other forum.

the stewmac heel block would force me to remove the top and I DON'T
want to get that deep into it. I have a complete woodshop in my
basement and I'm confident that I can machine the tenon on the stewmac
neck to fit the Tacoma mortise (either cut it or pad it). I could also
glue dowels into the existing block and then redrill to match the neck
if I need to do so.

[Tom Reese]

> if I need to do so.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

after re-reading the other forum, supposedly the Tacoma necks don't
have tenons. If that's true then I can probably buy a Stewmac neck and
cut the tenon off of it. The issue then would be getting the inserts
in the neck for the bolts.

I'll work on removing the existing neck then consider my options.

[JD]

I forgot about the top; they're nearly impossible
to remove without boogering them up. Two things to
be careful of; Make absolutely sure that the
StewMac is the same scale and make sure the bolt
holes place the neck properly relative to your saddle.

[Tom Reese]

On Jan 25, 2:23 pm, JD <jdblackwe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Make absolutely sure that the
> StewMac is the same scale and make sure the bolt
> holes place the neck properly relative to your saddle

yeah that does complicate things. I have to put the fingerboard back
in the exact same place so I don't have to deal with moving the
bridge.

[JD]

Yeah, it would really suck to put that much work
in then find out it plays out of tune.

[Mike Brown]

> I have a complete woodshop in my
> basement and I'm confident that I can machine the tenon on the stewmac
> neck to fit the Tacoma mortise (either cut it or pad it). I could also
> glue dowels into the existing block and then redrill to match the neck
> if I need to do so.

That's more or less what I was thinking. Mods to either the heel block
or the heel (or both) shouldn't be too difficult.

MJRB

[Tom from Texas (The Tom Risner Fund for Deserving North Texas Guitarplayers is not liable]

What?!! Playing out of tune is a problem?

Tom from Texas

[Tony Done]

"Tom Reese" wrote in message
news:8f8c1474-a896-494c...@n6g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...

****************

Check the scale lengths. I expect they are the same, but you can't be sure.

Tony D

[Tony Done]

"Tom Reese" wrote in message

news:67eada9b-cca5-46b0...@v14g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...

***************

FWIW, I would likely go for a dry bolt-on neck joint, using a couple of
bolts through the neck block. Maybe put a reinforcing rod up into the heel
to anchor the bolts, depending on how much confidence I had in the ability
of the heel to resist cracking. The advantage of a dry bolt-on joint is that
it would be very amenable to cut-and-try fitting for getting the neck angle
and intonation right, and the joints tidy - you could check set up before
gluing the fretboard extension . At least some LaSiDo guitars use that kind
of joint.

Tony D

[Les Cargill]

Tom from Texas (The Tom Risner Fund for Deserving North Texas

Depends. Which tune?

--
Les Cargill

[Tom Reese]

a dry fit is exactly how I'll do it and I'll definitely check the
scake length.

My concern now is to get the inserts into the new neck without
cracking it. I have to install those perfectly. If those holes are off
just a little I think the heel could crack when I tighten the bolts. A
dowel through the heel might be a good idea.

I'm going to try to reuse the old inserts. I'm guessing that they're
glued in but I'm not sure. I've seen some inserts (not in guitars
though) that screwed into place (coarse wood screw threads on the
outside and machine threads on the inside).

My concern

[Tony Done]

"Tom Reese" wrote in message

news:7cf7422a-95b6-40fb...@do4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

*******************


I reckon you can line them up by getting the neck joint to a good fit, then
make a pointed marker the same diameter as the neck block holes as a center
punch that can be pushed through the neck block holes from the inside to
mark the position on the neck

One of the guys (Keith Adams rip) off aga sent me some brass screw-in
inserts the use for electric guitar neck bolts that look good to me. I think
I would have them as a loose screw fit, to avoid splitting the heel, and
epoxy them in. They should be easy enough to find at handyman stores. At
worse you could always enlarge the neck block holes a bit to help the fit.

Tony D

[JD]

The problem is that even if they are the same
scale length the way the neck interfaces with the
block could be different from the original and
result in error. There's no *easy* reference plane
to measure from, the saddle being the critical
constant. If you can position the neck relative to
the center of the saddle to the nut, which will be
awkward, you should be OK.

[JD]

Slide and anything bluegrass.

[Tony Done]

"JD" wrote in message
news:4f21b6e1$0$23706$c3e8da3$a8a6...@news.astraweb.com...

************

That's true. Another way of looking at it is, assuming that the scale length
is the same and that it is a typical 14-fret dread, what is the exact
location of the body fret in relation to the body? I think small adjustments
could be made to the heel, either by shimming it, which is what I did to my
old National reso, or by taking some off the back of the heel.

Tony D

[JD]

That's true. I'm just not sure I'd trust the
accuracy of positioning the neck relative to the
14Th fret and the body plane. It *should* work but
the dimension isn't what defines whether it's in tune.

[Mike Brown]

In article <jfqdte$477$1...@dont-email.me>,

Just call it jazz improvisation.

MJRB

[Tom Reese]

progress report:

I removed the bolts and and used a heat lamp to loosen the fretboard
from the guitar body. I am now working on removing the fingerboard
from the neck.

The inserts for the bolts are brass and don't have screwdriver slots.
This is probably all for the better. Screwing the inserts into the
heel could probably crack it.

The inserts are actually inserted into a separate piece of wood that
was then glued into the heel.

I posted a picture of the inserts on my Facebook page if you're
interested:

https://www.facebook.com/?sk=lf#!/photo.php?fbid=3174002072995&set=a.3174001672985.2159181.1353863466&type=1&theater

[JD]

Good job! Looks like all you'll really have to is
figure out whether to shim or shave the block. It
won't be hard to transfer the hole locations.

[Tom Reese]

On Jan 27, 12:46 pm, JD <jdblackwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/27/2012 5:51 AM, Tom Reese wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > progress report:
>
> > I removed the bolts and and used a heat lamp to loosen the fretboard
> > from the guitar body. I am now working on removing the fingerboard
> > from the neck.
>
> > The inserts for the bolts are brass and don't have screwdriver slots.
> > This is probably all for the better. Screwing the inserts into the
> > heel could probably crack it.
>
> > The inserts are actually inserted into a separate piece of wood that
> > was then glued into the heel.
>
> > I posted a picture of the inserts on my Facebook page if you're
> > interested:
>

> >  https://www.facebook.com/?sk=lf#!/photo.php?fbid=3174002072995&set=a....

>
> Good job! Looks like all you'll really have to is
> figure out whether to shim or shave the block. It

> won't be hard to transfer the hole locations.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

to make the hole spacing foolproof, I'm going to cut that block with
the inserts out of the old neck and reuse it. I'll rout a slot in the
new neck and put the inserts in it. My shaper jig should make the
routed slot foolproof. The only issue then will be getting the correct
vertical dimension. I obviously want the end of the neck to line up
with the sound board. I'm thinking about a sliding dovetail joint to
get it perfectly lined up. Tighten it, a drop of glue at the top of
the slot to hold it and then put the fingerboard on.

I'll also rout the end of the neck a little bit (like the existing
neck) to give me a tighter joint. That will also give me a very little
bit of play for the bolts and lessen the chance of a neck crack when I
tighten it up.

[JD]

Sounds like you've thought your process through well.

[Tom Reese]

> Sounds like you've thought your process through well.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

tightening that dovetail joint with the routed end could very well
cause the end grain to split out. I have to think about that some
more. I don't want to ruin the neck.

[David Hajicek]

"Tom Reese" <tomr...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:67eada9b-cca5-46b0...@v14g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...

>I have a guitar kit that I started quite a while ago and stalled out
> on because the neck fitting process intimidated me.
>
> I also have a Tacoma DM9 with a cracked neck that needs replacement
> among other issues.
>
> I'd like to replace the neck on the Tacoma as practice for the kit
> guitar but first I need to get a new neck for it.
>
> Can anyone tell me if a Martin neck from the 1833 shop would fit the
> Tacoma? Did Tacoma use the same dovetail or is it different? Should I
> order one from Stewmac instead? Some other source?
>
> Is it practical to plan to reuse the fretboard or should I plan on a
> new one?
>
> thanks for any help you can offer.

After reviewing your pictures (later in string), Yes, a Martin or StewMac
neck could be made to work. The insert block probably also reinforces the
heel. Inserts could be screw-in depending on style. You could epoxy in
some inserts too.

Why are you replacing vs repairing the neck?

Dave H

[David Hajicek]

"Tom Reese" <tomr...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:ef29bfb6-894b-42c6...@f14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...

+++++++++++++

Glue in some doweling running vertical through the heel as reinforcement.

Dave H

[Tom Reese]

On Jan 27, 4:30 pm, "David Hajicek" <haji...@skypoint.com> wrote:
> "Tom Reese" <tomre...@comcast.net> wrote in message

> Dave H- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

that wouldn't reinforce the shear plane where the split would occur.
Visualize the vertical piece of wood holding the bolt inserts sliding
in a dovetailed channel. the corners of wood holding it in place would
be really weak and probably fracture when I tried to tighten the bolts.

[Tom Reese]

On Jan 27, 4:28 pm, "David Hajicek" <haji...@skypoint.com> wrote:
> "Tom Reese" <tomre...@comcast.net> wrote in message

> Dave H- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

the neck is split in such a way that a repair wouldn't hold up.

[Tony Done]

"Tom Reese" wrote in message

news:67eada9b-cca5-46b0...@v14g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...

I have a guitar kit that I started quite a while ago and stalled out
on because the neck fitting process intimidated me.

I also have a Tacoma DM9 with a cracked neck that needs replacement
among other issues.

I'd like to replace the neck on the Tacoma as practice for the kit
guitar but first I need to get a new neck for it.

Can anyone tell me if a Martin neck from the 1833 shop would fit the
Tacoma? Did Tacoma use the same dovetail or is it different? Should I
order one from Stewmac instead? Some other source?

Is it practical to plan to reuse the fretboard or should I plan on a
new one?

thanks for any help you can offer.

****************

Just looking at your pic of the heel joint on facebook. You mention lack of
screwdriver slots. If I was screwing (assuming it is a screw) those things
in I would use a bolt with a locknut, not a screwdriver. Too easy to bugger
a slot with a screwdriver, then maybe have to clean the internal thread up.

Tony D

[David Hajicek]

"Tom Reese" <tomr...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:c0db486f-41b2-420c...@h6g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

++++++++++++

I guess I wasn't thinking of anything so complicated. Reinforce the heel
and put the inserts directly into the heel. Use epoxy on the inserts or
thread shear could be a problem.

If you do what you propose, epoxying the dovetail insert will do much of the
same function. Shearing the wood should not be a problem if it is epoxied
in place.

These bolts need not be so tight as to damage the wood, only enough to hold
against the string tension and to make the joint stable.

Dave H