Froggy Bottom Guitars: completely new website!
Hans Andersson
Really nice and lots of good pictures. They are still tweaking it so
let them know if you have reactions.
Hans
Stephen Boyke
Hans Andersson wrote:
Yeah. And check out the FAQs they listed on their website (reposted
below). What a bunch of elitists! I like FB guitars, but, quite
frankly, I wouldn't buy an instrument from such snoots. There are
simply too many other wonderful instruments (and luthiers) out there.
Again, what a bunch a snoots!
--
Stephen T. Boyke
(Frequently Asked Questions)
Q. Where does the name Froggy Bottom come from?
A. It's a Blues reference particularly meaningful to Michael and his
lifelong love of the Blues. In the early part of the 20th century in the
Mississippi Delta former slaves-turned sharecroppers (the originators of
the Blues and juke joints) called their farmland "de froggy bottom"
because it would flood and attract mating amphibians.
Q. What gauge strings should I use on my Froggy?
A. All of our grand concert and smaller guitars are designed for use
with nothing heavier than light gauge strings. Full size guitars can be
strung with light or medium gauge.
Q. What brand or type of strings do you recommend for my Froggy?
A. We encourage players to try different types of strings to determine
their own preference. We supply and enthusiastically endorse GHS brand.
New instruments are strung with Bright Bronze or Vintage Bronze.
Q. What is the process for ordering a custom guitar from the shop?
A. Initial contact is usually made over the phone or by snail/email.
Consultation visit(s) can be useful when geographically possible. We
require a deposit of 50% with the order and do not commence building
until all details are decided and confirmed.
Q. What are the benefits of buying directly from the shop instead of
through a dealer?
A. Direct buyers have access to and attention from the actual builders,
scheduling flexibility, one-on-one consultation to determine specific
needs of the Player.
Q. If I buy a Froggy from a dealer can I still call and ask questions of
you directly?
A. The service a dealer gives is part of his/her commission. It is
really not appropriate to call us with questions the dealer should answer.
Q. I love my Froggy but I have to sell it. How do I find out what it is
worth?
A. We do not deal in used instruments. Your best bet is to visit a
reputable established dealer in used instruments for an appraisal. Check
the Dealers page for Froggy Bottom dealers.
Q. I bought a used Froggy recently from a dealer. Does the warranty
extend to me?
A. No. The warranty applies only to the original owner, who must mail in
the warranty card within ten days of purchase.
Q. How long does it take to receive a custom built guitar once a down
payment has been received?
A. The details of scheduling or complexity of the order can vary how
long an order takes. It can take from 5 weeks to 6 months from time of
order to receive a custom guitar.
Q. My label smudged when I put my humidifier in. Can I get a new label?
A. No. Sorry. Labels are permanently glued in and are very difficult to
remove.
Q. What kind of pickups do you use in your guitars?
A. We have installed a wide variety of pickups in our guitars over the
years. sound quality, relliability, ease of installation, cost,
flexibility, etc. must be evaluated by the Player.
Q. Do Froggys have an adjustable truss rod?
A. Yes. All of our instruments have a very simple and powerful 2-piece
adjustable truss rod. The truss rod in any guitar is intended ONLY to
adjust neck relief, NOT action height. We require rod adjustment only be
performed by a certified Froggy Bottom dealer, or by our shop personnel.
Q. Do you use bound fingerboards?
A. No. All of our binding materials are real wood, which stains badly
from hand oil and perspiration.
Q. Can I tour the workshop?
A. We discourage casual tours and frown on people just showing up with
no appointment. Visits for serious buyers can be scheduled, however
Q. Can you send me a catalogue?
A. No. Connection with the internet has reduced the call for catalogues
significantly. At this time the website is our catalogue. Feel free to
print out pages. When and if a printed catalogue is available we will
make it generally known.
Steve Hawkins
>
>
>Hans Andersson wrote:
>
>>Go look at Froggy Bottom Guitars' new website:
>>
>>www.froggybottomguitars.com
>>
>>Really nice and lots of good pictures. They are still tweaking it so
>>let them know if you have reactions.
>>
>>Hans
>>
>
>Yeah. And check out the FAQs they listed on their website (reposted
>below). What a bunch of elitists! I like FB guitars, but, quite
>frankly, I wouldn't buy an instrument from such snoots. There are
>simply too many other wonderful instruments (and luthiers) out there.
> Again, what a bunch a snoots!
>
I visited the site and read the FAQ. I see no reason for your reaction and
find their business practices to be fairly typical for the industry. Great
site and great instruments. I stopped by their booth at NAMM and found them
to be friendly folks.
Steve Hawkins
Hans Andersson
> Yeah. And check out the FAQs they listed on their website (reposted
> below). What a bunch of elitists! I like FB guitars, but, quite
> frankly, I wouldn't buy an instrument from such snoots. There are
> simply too many other wonderful instruments (and luthiers) out there.
> Again, what a bunch a snoots!
Whoa, Stephen. I am not sure why you reacted so strongly, but
the Froggy Bottom folks are anything but elitists. What was it exactly
that made you angry? Visits to the shop are often not encouraged by
small shops since guitar makers essentially work all day, often every
day to get their
orders met. I hope you reconsider because everyont I know that know
these
guys has nothing but good things to say. They make great guitars too,
I think.
Hans
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Bob Dorgan
>
>
> Hans Andersson wrote:
>
> >Go look at Froggy Bottom Guitars' new website:
> >
> >www.froggybottomguitars.com
> >
> >Really nice and lots of good pictures. They are still tweaking it so
> >let them know if you have reactions.
> >
> >Hans
> >
>
> Yeah. And check out the FAQs they listed on their website (reposted
> below). What a bunch of elitists! I like FB guitars, but, quite
> frankly, I wouldn't buy an instrument from such snoots. There are
> simply too many other wonderful instruments (and luthiers) out there.
> Again, what a bunch a snoots!
>
What parts of the FAQ are you referring to? I checked it out this morning
and nothing struck me as elitism, but I only gave it a quick run through.
Bob Dorgan
No Busking
> What parts of the FAQ are you referring to? I checked it out this morning
> and nothing struck me as elitism, but I only gave it a quick run through.
I didn't have as strong a reaction as Stephen, but their FAQ could use some
work. It sounds like it was written by their attorney and their mother
("Don't BOTHER my little Michael while he's working...he has IMPORTANT
things to do.")
These phrases probably don't come off quite the way they intend them to...
"Q. If I buy a Froggy from a dealer can I still call and ask questions of
you directly?"
"A. The service a dealer gives is part of his/her commission. It is really
not appropriate to call us with questions the dealer should answer. "
How about, "We have an excellent dealer network, and they can answer your
questions more quickly and efficiently than we are able to directly. For
custom instruments commissioned directly from the factory, please call the
Froggy Bottom luthier you dealt with at the time of purchase."
"Q. I bought a used Froggy recently from a dealer. Does the warranty extend
to me?"
"A. No. The warranty applies only to the original owner, who must mail in
the warranty card within ten days of purchase."
They've phrased it in such a way that it sounds like they're in a race with
you to invalidate the warranty. My guess? If I have a receipt made out to
me for a new instrument from a Froggy Bottom dealer, and NEVER mailed in the
warranty card, they'd probably honor the warranty (at least I'd HOPE so).
The phrase about the warranty card was extraneous to the question, probably
isn't entirely true, and causes unease in a potential buyer.
"Q. My label smudged when I put my humidifier in. Can I get a new label?"
"A. No. Sorry. Labels are permanently glued in and are very difficult to
remove. "
Kind of an odd thing to put in the FAQ (does it really come up that often?),
but you'd think they'd try to reach some sort of accomodation for a customer
with a lifetime warranty on a high-dollar instrument.
"Q. Do Froggys have an adjustable truss rod?"
"A. Yes. All of our instruments have a very simple and powerful 2-piece
adjustable truss rod. The truss rod in any guitar is intended ONLY to adjust
neck relief, NOT action height. We require rod adjustment only be performed
by a certified Froggy Bottom dealer, or by our shop personnel."
Deal killer for me. If there's not a Froggy dealer just a few miles down
the road, I'm NOT going to mail the freakin' guitar back to the factory for
a truss rod adjustment...yet the warranty is invalid if a qualified guitar
tech from my hometown tweaks the rod. Better to tell the customer "If
there's not a dealer nearby, please have your regular repairman contact us
and we'll work with him to insure that the adjustment is handled properly."
"Q. Can I tour the workshop?"
"A. We discourage casual tours and frown on people just showing up with no
appointment. Visits for serious buyers can be scheduled, however"
Try, "We're a small operation and unfortunately don't have the time or
personnel to give casual factory tours...if you drop by for a tour, it's
quite possible (probable, even) that no one will be available to give you
one. If you are interested in commissioning a Froggy Bottom Guitar, please
give us a call and we'll work out a scheduled time when you can visit. "
"Q. Can you send me a catalogue?"
"A. No. Connection with the internet has reduced the call for catalogues
significantly. At this time the website is our catalogue. Feel free to print
out pages. When and if a printed catalogue is available we will make it
generally known."
Sounds like "You Luddite idiot...how dare you ask!?" How about, "We no
longer produce a catalog, but all of the information and specifications on
our instruments can be found here on our website. Please feel free to print
out pages as you require."
I've not met these people, and have no reason to doubt Steve's word that
they're fine folks. But what they've written in their FAQ gives the
impression that they're kinda tight-assed.
--
Michael Pugh
Gorblimey
Bob Dorgan <dor...@fltg.net> wrote in message
news:u6i1jkq...@corp.supernews.com...
Not so much elitism, but I found it fairly snotty. They could have said all
the same things without answering quite so directly, eg, factory tours by
appointment only, rather than saying they 'frown' on casual visitors.
There can't be much worse than a fan of their guitars turning up and getting
a frosty welcome.
Pete
Bob Dorgan
"No Busking" <nobu...@erols.com> wrote:
> I've not met these people, and have no reason to doubt Steve's word that
> they're fine folks. But what they've written in their FAQ gives the
> impression that they're kinda tight-assed.
> --
>
> Michael Pugh
Thanks Mike,
I see your points.
I suppose that because I'm a small business owner I tend to give other small
business owners the benefit of the doubt.
After re-reading the FAQ, I agree with you about the truss rod issue.
The hesitancy to schedule factory tours is something I can relate to. I have
had a few customers that were interested in our ornamental iron services
request shop tours. If it's a deal killer, I'll schedule them in for a time
when the shop is closed. If they insist on being here when we're in
production, the deal is killed.
Back on topic:
I love FB guitars.
Bob Dorgan
No Busking
small
> business owners the benefit of the doubt.
Yeah, I'm very pro-business as well, and don't have much use for the
high-horse entitlement attitude that many consumers have worked themselves
into these days...seems like folks want to beat the last penny out of
manufacturers, and still expect perfect service in the equation.
I'm sure there's a good reason and a story behind everything they wrote, but
to someone that doesn't know them, it gave a pretty sour impression. It
sounds like a gripe about customers rather than an FAQ.
I love Froggy Bottom guitars as well...every one I've ever played has been a
great instrument. Even so, if I was looking to buy one, that FAQ would
have put me off...f'rinstance, compare how FBG handled the warranty question
with what we've all heard about Martin going out of their way to honor
warranties on 40-year-old guitars with no receipt (tracing where it was
bought and from whom, and checking it against shipping records and the
serial number).
And I just found the whole smudged label thing bizarre...there's GOT to be a
story behind that one. The neck on a guitar can be replaced, but the label
is unfixable at ANY price?
- Mike
Stephen Boyke
Perhaps I did overreact when I first read it, but reading it again
still ticks me off.
--
Stephen T. Boyke
ooglewoogle
were way off the mark. Like you say, not that much of what they
said was bad...but goodness - they way they said it. I would be
*scared* to contact them for anything...I mean..I don't wanna
inconvenience them by spending a few thousand with them!
My vote's for Mike to rewrite the Froggy page.
Glen
ps. my favourite staff member is Woodberry Bottom! :O)
maybe the group should have a *guess-the-wood-by-lick*
competition? who would win??
Adrian R.
I agree. I clicked over to the website before I'd read the thread, and
the FAQ's felt like they were written when someone was in a foul mood.
Nothing too unreasonable. The sticker issue seems odd. I'd leave that
off and deal with it as the issue comes up. I agree with everything
Stephen said including his reworked FAQ's. They are far better and get
the same point across. I'm only adding my "metoo" in hopes that the
thread gets noticed and the FAQ's are improved.
Someday I'll own a Froggy K. The first time I heard a Froggy I was
hooked. It still remains my grail sound I look for (along with a
Claxton that blew me away). My perceived tone of the FAQ's wouldn't
change that, but it might change someone's mind who isn't so
enthralled with Froggys.
The rest of the website looks great. The bios are nice and bring you a
little closer to who builds the guitars. It's a "small shop" which may
be less desirable to some than having an individual luthier, but the
bios really put your mind at ease that the production is in good hands
and the shop isn't so big that you feel lesser work might slip by.
Adrian
Hojo2x
>My vote's for Mike to rewrite the Froggy (FAQ) page.
Or, better yet, for one of us to send the company copies of Mike's thoughtful
post and his e-mail address and let them follow up on it if they so choose.
I also agree with Michael in that this is almost certainly not intentional on
the part of the good folks at Froggy Bottom: learning to write prose that will
inform but not offend is a delicate art, and as we navigate the dangerous
shoals of newsgroup discussions it doesn't take a genius to see that a great
many people never master it.
I sure got jumped on a LOT when I first tried my hand at this form of
communication. That's one reason my posts are so LONG as well as so weaselly -
I got tired of people I'd never heard of bellowing: "Well, you dumb SHIT, you
forgot this, this and THIS!!!!"
Those folks Froggy Bottom have a lot time-eating work to do, and they were
trying to communicate their concerns as a company and a business as best they
could. But they're guitar builders, not guitar writers.
Could they do better at conveying their concerns? Sure. And they probably
will. But it might not be as much of a burning priority for them as those of
us sitting at home in our comfy computer chairs might like.
Since they're in business, if someone cares to pass Mike's post along to them
perhaps they'll choose to take some of his suggestions. But Mike himself
shouldn't pass it along, and NONE of us should take the position that these
granite-jawed flinty-eyed Vermonters had DAMNED well better take our
unsolicited advice if they want to thrive in today's uncertain business
climate.
I reckon they can decide that for themselves....
Wade Hampton Miller
T-bone
>
> I agreed with Glen when he wrote:
>
> >My vote's for Mike to rewrite the Froggy (FAQ) page.
>
> Or, better yet, for one of us to send the company copies of Mike's thoughtful
> post and his e-mail address and let them follow up on it if they so choose.
>
> I also agree with Michael in that this is almost certainly not intentional on
> the part of the good folks at Froggy Bottom: learning to write prose that will
> inform but not offend is a delicate art, and as we navigate the dangerous
> shoals of newsgroup discussions it doesn't take a genius to see that a great
> many people never master it.
>
> I sure got jumped on a LOT when I first tried my hand at this form of
> communication. That's one reason my posts are so LONG as well as so weaselly -
> I got tired of people I'd never heard of bellowing: "Well, you dumb SHIT, you
> forgot this, this and THIS!!!!"
Hey, you got jumped on for a lot of reasons.
Want a list?
HAHHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Bob Dorgan
Gorblimey
Hojo2x <hoj...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020212170435...@mb-mc.aol.com...
>
> Since they're in business, if someone cares to pass Mike's post along to
them
> perhaps they'll choose to take some of his suggestions. But Mike himself
> shouldn't pass it along, and NONE of us should take the position that
these
> granite-jawed flinty-eyed Vermonters had DAMNED well better take our
> unsolicited advice if they want to thrive in today's uncertain business
> climate.
Well, I'm sure YOU could, if you WANTED too!
Pete
MAIB
lackluster. I also had an email exchange once with them, and found them not
particularly inviting. I had expressed an interest in visiting the shop (I
travel up that way a lot). I doubt anyone here would say that I'm not a
potential customer for a custom guitar. Their response was to suggest I
visit a dealer. Ummm... jeez, thanks.
I read the new "FAQ" and found it almost laughable. FAQ? Well, I suppose.
Perhaps it should be falled FAQTWFA (frequently asked questions that we find
annoying).
Someone here suggested that it is common for small builders to discourage
shop visits. Not in my experience. The small builders that I've
corresponded and dealt with have been most encouraging and gracious in that
regard. I spent a fine day at Harvey's a couple years ago. Could he have
been working instead? I imagine so. Did he give me any indication
whatsoever that he would prefer to be doing so? Nope. Ever other builder
I've had any contact with has enthusiastically encouraged me to visit their
shop, including Kim Walker (who's time has got to be in AT LEAST as great
demand as Froggy's).
I would guess Froggy's are fine guitars. And probably the people who make
them are fine people. But I have very little interest in finding out if
these things are true or not. There are too many excellent builders out
there who are more warm and welcoming. Should someone point all this out to
them? Perhaps, if someone cares. My general experience is that small
business owners don't show much interest in criticisms of their marketing
skills. And anyway, if they're the kind of people who can write that kind
of stuff, they're probably not going to change.
No harm meant. Just my 00 cents worth.
Mark
Gorblimey
MAIB <messe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:BPha8.1144$Nv5....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>I spent a fine day at Harvey's a couple years ago. Could he have
> been working instead? I imagine so. Did he give me any indication
> whatsoever that he would prefer to be doing so? Nope.
Why do I instinctively know this statement to be true?
P
Shirley Worrall
Because it was spoken by a lawyer, of course!
Next question?
Best wishes,
--
Shirl
Hans Andersson
I have emailed Michael Millard, as I know him and know that the
perceptions of him
resulting from this page are entirely inaccurate (read "180degrees
off").
Please give the rest of the site a look because it is a dramatic
improvement over
the old rather lackluster site.
I have played the Michael Millard personal K, and can vouch for its
brilliance.
At $18K, I won't be buying it but I think, as a poster pointed out at
13th fret, this is the price that Michael sets when he doesn't really
want to sell. That M really has me curious tho'.
Happy surfing,
hans
MAIB
"Shirley Worrall" <sh...@the-sty.com> wrote in message
news:9edj6uol4uhkebnhf...@4ax.com...
Here, here! Hey, Shirl, do you have to wear one of those funny wigs in
court like the men do? Just wondering,
Solicitor Lane
Kurt
<han...@tulane.edu> wrote:
>
>I have emailed Michael Millard, as I know him and know that the
>perceptions of him
>resulting from this page are entirely inaccurate (read "180degrees
>off").
Well.... it's been said that perceptions *are* reality.
If his FAQ causes these sorts of reactions, I'd imagine he'd want to
remedy the situation. I don't think anyone has suggested that Michael
is anything other than a fine person.
Kurt
Shirley Worrall
<messe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> >>I spent a fine day at Harvey's a couple years ago. Could he have
>> >> been working instead? I imagine so. Did he give me any indication
>> >> whatsoever that he would prefer to be doing so? Nope.
>> >
>> >Why do I instinctively know this statement to be true?
>>
>> Because it was spoken by a lawyer, of course!
>>
>> Next question?
>>
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> --
>> Shirl
>
>
>Here, here! Hey, Shirl, do you have to wear one of those funny wigs in
>court like the men do? Just wondering,
Yes :) They're fun - horsehair has a certain charm about it....
>Solicitor Lane
<Grin> You should take the Bar exam here. Then you can wear one too
and we can get an interesting piccy for the photo page :)
Best wishes,
--
Shirl
chaya
they have an ugly web site. I know I may be offending some of you who
posted that they like it, but I really think it's bad design. Yuck.
csj
Steve Hawkins
>On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 01:37:41 GMT, "MAIB"
>>court like the men do? Just wondering,
>
>Yes :) They're fun - horsehair has a certain charm about it....
>
>>Solicitor Lane
>
><Grin> You should take the Bar exam here. Then you can wear one too
>and we can get an interesting piccy for the photo page :)
>
>Best wishes,
That's a great idea Shirley! Good thing I'm bringing my camera to UK5. :-)
Steve Hawkins
Jeff M
I've had the pleasure of speaking with Michael in the past and he was
very helpfull and informative, willing to take his time to talk to me
during what I am sure was a busy day for him. The "FAQ" section of his
web site does give the wrong impression of his business from what I
can tell.
Norman Draper
> Want a list?
> HAHHAHAHAHHH
Shut up. Thank you.
With warmest regards,
Norman (I'd Spell It HAHAHAHA) Draper
Norman Draper
>
> I have emailed Michael Millard, as I know him and know that the
> perceptions of him
> resulting from this page are entirely inaccurate (read "180degrees
> off").
Hans, I really don't understand. Where is the sniping? And "that's
what we do here"? I just re-read all the posts and don't see the sniping
you refer to.
I also just visited the Froggy website and, after seeing the FAQ in
context, it seems.... worse. I have met or visited several luthiers and
large shops and have NEVER been greeted with anything less than a warm
welcome and at least the offer of a tour. I would hope for the same in
Vermont.
One thing that amazes me is the truss rod statement in the FA. Looking
at the map of dealers on the map at the site, I noticed there is a HUGE
distance between dealers. Suppose I were transferred to, oh..... Austin,
Texas. I'd have quite a hike to have a set-up done; I'm estimating
something close to 1000 miles to the nearest dealer. Does Michael really
believe that only a Froggy Bottom dealer can adjust a trust rod?
I am the proud owner of two Froggy Bottom guitars, so this isn't exactly
a "what if" post. They are wonderful instruments. I can't help wondering
if I would buy them after reading the site. I probably would. I only wish
I had a better feeling about the things I've read.
Norman (I Love Having A Frog's Ass On My Headstock!!) Draper
Jeff M
> a "what if" post. They are wonderful instruments.
Norman, what models/wood combinations do you own?
Hans Andersson
> what we do here"? I just re-read all the posts and don't see the sniping
> you refer to.
Hi, again, Norman.
My post was simply to let people know that know that they have
revamped their website, esp since it was mentioned as an unfavorable
site by someone a couple weeks ago. Then, there's all this criticism
of the FAQ with little, some, mention of the other 40+ pages posted.
The FAQ has been rewritten in the past days.
Have a fine day, Norman
hans
No Busking
> "Really nice and lots of good pictures. They are still tweaking it so
> let them know if you have reactions."
Then, when folks had some specific comments about the FAQ, he wrote:
> My post was simply to let people know that know that they have
> revamped their website, esp since it was mentioned as an unfavorable
> site by someone a couple weeks ago. Then, there's all this criticism
> of the FAQ with little, some, mention of the other 40+ pages posted.
Gosh, Hans, it's a great website with lots of pretty pictures. I really
like the color yellow, and am glad they chose it as a recurring theme on the
site. And that orange text on a yellow background is just the BEST. Plus,
they put up pictures of all the guitars they make...I mean, how clever can
you get!?!
Is that the sort of "reactions" you were looking for? I can't see where
it'd be very helpful to them.
It's a fine site, Hans...but don't post the address asking for reactions if
you're going to be offended with honest feedback. There were multiple posts
by people with lots of nice things to say about Froggy Bottom...and some of
those same people had critical comments about the site.
There were also posts by folks that had LESS than favorable experiences with
Froggy Bottom. Those may have been the most helpful posts of all, if they
take them to heart.
I sincerely hope that Froggy Bottom Guitars doesn't share your attitude...if
they do, they'll only want to hear good things about themselves.
--
Michael Pugh
p.s. I really do like the "Know Your Guitar" page, where they label "Frog"
on the headstock.
Hans Andersson
> like the color yellow, and am glad they chose it as a recurring theme on the
> site. And that orange text on a yellow background is just the BEST. Plus,
> they put up pictures of all the guitars they make...I mean, how clever can
> you get!?!
> Is that the sort of "reactions" you were looking for? I can't see where
> it'd be very helpful to them.
Sorry I mentioned it. Wasn't really looking for anything, just letting
folks know.
> It's a fine site, Hans...but don't post the address asking for reactions if
> you're going to be offended with honest feedback. There were multiple posts
> by people with lots of nice things to say about Froggy Bottom...and some of
> those same people had critical comments about the site.
> There were also posts by folks that had LESS than favorable experiences with
> Froggy Bottom. Those may have been the most helpful posts of all, if they
> take them to heart.
Which posts were those? I reviewed all posts and didn't see any that
referred to unfavorable experiences with this maker. All the comments
were relatd to the website or theoretical problems with getting a
truss rod adjusted. I hope you can point them out to me otherwise you
have clearly liabled a respected maker. There's the "free thinking"
thing again. I consider it loose thinking.
Hans
No Busking
> referred to unfavorable experiences with this maker. All the comments
> were relatd to the website or theoretical problems with getting a
> truss rod adjusted. I hope you can point them out to me otherwise you
> have clearly liabled a respected maker. There's the "free thinking"
> thing again. I consider it loose thinking.
Perhaps the post below didn't show up on your ISP's new feed...
Incidentally, Hans, through this I've never insulted you or accused you of
anything other than having an opinion different than mine.
You, on the other hand, have personally attacked my intellect ("sloppy
thinking" and "loose thinking"), and accused me of liable. You have also
mistakenly stated that the 13th fret and Lowden list never have posts
removed (LOL...my first question is...how would you know?) You asked for
feedback, then chafed when you got it.
Which is all rather amusing, since you're the one that throws around the
accusations of deeply personal attacks and sloppy thinking.
You seem pretty determined to be dissatisfied here, so go ahead and enjoy
yourself. I'm going to wander off and do some sloppy dreaming.
post of less than favorable experience with Froggy Bottom follows...
"MAIB" <messe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:BPha8.1144$Nv5....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> FWIW, I never cared for the old Froggy website. I found it rather
> lackluster. I also had an email exchange once with them, and found them
not
> particularly inviting. I had expressed an interest in visiting the shop
(I
> travel up that way a lot). I doubt anyone here would say that I'm not a
> potential customer for a custom guitar. Their response was to suggest I
> visit a dealer. Ummm... jeez, thanks.
<rest of Mark's post snipped>
Hans Andersson
> > Which posts were those? I reviewed all posts and didn't see any that
> > referred to unfavorable experiences with this maker. All the comments
> > were relatd to the website or theoretical problems with getting a
> > truss rod adjusted. I hope you can point them out to me otherwise you
> > have clearly liabled a respected maker. There's the "free thinking"
> > thing again. I consider it loose thinking.
>
> Perhaps the post below didn't show up on your ISP's new feed...
Indeed I overlooked that post. But "posts?".
> Incidentally, Hans, through this I've never insulted you or accused you of
> anything other than having an opinion different than mine.
>
> You, on the other hand, have personally attacked my intellect ("sloppy
> thinking" and "loose thinking"), and accused me of liable.
My reference was to the lack of "posts" with FBG problems. It struck me
that you
were most interested in pointing out these negative "posts" which amount
to
a maker referring a customer to a dealer. Thanks for pointing out that
post
which I did overlook. I still only see one post, so I guess that could
be considered
sloppy on your part. Who cares. I don't. This has gotten overblown, so
i'll
just shut up.
> Which is all rather amusing, since you're the one that throws around the
> accusations of deeply personal attacks and sloppy thinking.
>
> You seem pretty determined to be dissatisfied here
I am only determined to be fair and thought your post was less than
fair to FBG.
Let's go play guitar.
No Busking
> fair to FBG.
Did you actually read what I wrote? Here, let me help you...
"These phrases probably don't come off quite the way they intend them to..."
(followed by some constructive suggestions on how they could improve).
"I've not met these people, and have no reason to doubt Steve's word that
they're fine folks. "
"I love Froggy Bottom guitars as well...every one I've ever played has been
a
great instrument. "
For someone determined to be fair, you sure like to ignore facts, or make
them up as you see fit.
> This has gotten overblown, so i'll
> just shut up.
Good call, since you've gotten a little sloppy.
--
Michael Pugh
chaya
favorite part of the website is that the pictures of the staff are
better quality than the pictures of the guitars. What are they selling
here?
csj (ducking as I type)
MAIB
"Hans Andersson" <han...@tulane.edu> wrote in message
>
> Which posts were those? I reviewed all posts and didn't see any that
> referred to unfavorable experiences with this maker. All the comments
> were relatd to the website or theoretical problems with getting a
> truss rod adjusted. I hope you can point them out to me otherwise you
> have clearly liabled a respected maker. There's the "free thinking"
> thing again. I consider it loose thinking.
As Michael pointed out, I posted of what I considered to be a relatively
negative experience with the builder. And by the way, the word is "libel"
not "liable." And this thread is really stupid.
Mark
Don Wallace
"MAIB" <messe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:BPha8.1144$Nv5....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> lackluster. I also had an email exchange once with them, and found them
not
> particularly inviting. I had expressed an interest in visiting the shop
(I
> travel up that way a lot). I doubt anyone here would say that I'm not a
> potential customer for a custom guitar. Their response was to suggest I
> visit a dealer. Ummm... jeez, thanks.
I really hate the new site. It is too wide and I know that browsers can be
adjusted but their site is the only one I have encountered where I would
have to
change my settings. Really annoying.
As for visits, maybe things have changed but I called Froggy Bottom last
year and wanted to drop by since I was going to be in the area. The trip
got called off, unfortunately, but in our email and phone conversations,
they
could not have been nicer. As for referring people to dealers, that seems
to be the case with most luthiers and I think it is because of the dealers
who demand exclusivity and get really touchy if you talk with the source.
Don Wallace
No Busking
> As for referring people to dealers, that seems
> to be the case with most luthiers and I think it is because of the dealers
> who demand exclusivity and get really touchy if you talk with the source.
Could be, but...
Elsewhere on the site they make a point of highlighting the advantages of
dealing with them directly (rather than with a dealer). It's odd when
juxtaposed with the standoffish wording in the FAQ.
Mark's experience notwithstanding, I still think they probably don't mean it
quite the way they say it. They're obviously busy building guitars, and
they've obviously had some issues with trying to get work done while
civilians were attempting to mill around the place.
If that's the case, they just need to adjust the wording a little to set the
right attitude. If they really DON'T want to mess with customers, they've
written it perfectly.
--
Michael Pugh
Hans Andersson
> negative experience with the builder. And by the way, the word is "libel"
> not "liable." And this thread is really stupid.
>
> Mark
Thanks for the correction.
I agree.
Cheers,
hans