Martin Custom Shop Decisions
Richard Cook
I recently happened across a used Martin 000-28VS (slot head, 12-fret)
and fell in love.
I'm kinda partial to pretty guitars, and the 28VS is fairly plain so
I've been fantasizing what I'd order if I can scrape up the $$ to
actually place an order for a Martin Custom Shop instrument.
Here's where I'm looking for a bit of rmmga help.
If I order an Adirondeck top, would it look better with Aging Toner or
Vintage Toner? Other than the Sitka topped Martins I've seen with
one or the other, I have no idea what to expect (I don't particularly
like the darker yellow Vintage Toner lends to the Sitka, by the way)
Other than the amount of yellow, what the heck is the difference
between these two toners, anyway?
Scale length; I know the long (25.4") scale is probably better for
alternate tunings due to the higher tension of the strings. Since I
have other guitars that are particularly well suited for that purpose,
what tonal characteristics would a short-scale(24.9") neck offer over
the longer scale? My fingers aren't exactly long and skinny, so I
assume the short scale would be easier for me to do those fancy 'jazz
chords'. <gr>
I'm thinking 1 3/4 width at the nut and 2 5/16 at the bridge, which is
something of a comprimise since I do SOME fingerstyle but mostly
flatpicking - strumming, actually... The 000-28VS is 1 15/16 and 2
5/16 respectively.
If I win the lottery I'm going to go for the new 000-45s Steven Stills
model just introduced at NAMM, only without SS name on it and the
torch inlay on a rounded slot headstock. And the toner and neck width
mentioned above.
What do 'yall think?
-rich cook-
GAS sufferer
madgamer
Richard Cook wrote:
Well for my 2 cents worth would be to say that if you have that much
money to spend there are so many real good luthiers that would build a
guitar that would more than meet your dream requirements. Its up to you
but I think you need to think out of the Martin box when thinking a
great custom guitar...but its your dream and your money.
Larry
>
Tom Reese
> There's so much inlay on the back you need sunglasses.
> It's of a peacock, which struck me as appropriate. But on the back? No one
but
> you can see it, unless you ostentatiously carry it onstage with the back
facing
> the audience. No . . . there are stage lights, and it might start a fire.
I don't think Martin intends to ever sell the guitar. I think it's meant to
be a celebration of the companys history and success.
Tom Reese
McCollum
"John Rethorst" <no...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:noone-020435....@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> In article <zQUMd.48751$EG1.27847@attbi_s53>, madgamer
<madg...@mchsi.com>
> BTW I saw (or was shown; I didn't go looking for it), a picture of
Martin's
> one-millionth guitar. There's so much inlay on the back you need
sunglasses.
> It's of a peacock, which struck me as appropriate. But on the back? No one
but
> you can see it, unless you ostentatiously carry it onstage with the back
facing
> the audience. No . . . there are stage lights, and it might start a fire.
>
overboard!
Lance
Rich Cook
wrote:
>Well for my 2 cents worth would be to say that if you have that much
>money to spend there are so many real good luthiers that would build a
>guitar that would more than meet your dream requirements. Its up to you
>but I think you need to think out of the Martin box when thinking a
>great custom guitar...but its your dream and your money.
>Larry
>>
Larry;
I've never been particularly interested in Martins, but that 000
really turned my head (and ears).
I do appreciate the independent luthiers, several of whom I've met in
person and many more who's work I truly appreciate. In fact I had a
custom guitar built several years ago, as many who've been in this ng.
for a relatively long time may recall. But as a close friend once
asked, rhetorically speaking:
"How many guitars does a guitar player need?"
"As many as he's already got - plus one more."
-rich-
Wade Hampton Miller
Just from my own perspective, I would suggest that you give the aging and
vintage toners a pass - all it is is pigment added to the lacquer. If you
actually play the guitar a lot and let the light hit it it will age fast enough
on its own.
If you REALLY want a darker top, go for the Martin sunburst. It's pretty
classy.
Regarding the scale length, Martin has only ever made a very few 12 fret Triple
O's with the shorter 24.9 scale length that they later used as standard on the
14 fret Triple O models. The vast majority were built with the longer scale
and were, in fact, the first Martin production models with that scale.
I don't think you'd get the power and response with a shorter scale length that
you'd get with 25.4" scale on that body. So my recommendation, as you've
probably figured out, is that you go with the longer one.
You wrote:
>My fingers aren't exactly long and skinny, so I >assume the short scale would
be easier for me to do those fancy 'jazz
>chords'. <gr>
Well, yeah, MAYBE, but maybe not. I think you'd adjust to it pretty easily.
And I think - in that body size - you'd get the tone you want with the longer
scale.
Short scale 12 fret Triple O's are not highly regarded by the folks I know who
are into that body style....
Hope this helps.
Wade Hampton Miller
Chugiak, Alaska
Check out some of my friends' sites, if you like:
http://jpstrings.com/
http://mcalisterguitars.com/
http://www.nationalguitars.com/
http://www.bluelioninstruments.com/
Mike brown
to spend that much money,
Having said that, If I had the opportunity in some way to place an order
on the Martin custom shop, I'd go for a 12 fret 000 cutaway in
braz/adirondac, no pickguard, not slot head, 1 3/4" modified V neck, short
scale, snowflake markers, herringbone trim.
MJRB
George W.
>I've never been particularly interested in Martins, but that 000
>really turned my head (and ears).
The only thing I'd suggest is to try a mahogany version of the guitar
but I don't know that there is one. You might try a 000-16SGT to get
an idea how mahogany compares.
G.
Rick Homan
(000-16SGT). Sweet guitar!
foldedpath
news:qb2801l8r4j2li3tk...@4ax.com:
> If I order an Adirondeck top, would it look better with Aging Toner or
> Vintage Toner? Other than the Sitka topped Martins I've seen with
> one or the other, I have no idea what to expect (I don't particularly
> like the darker yellow Vintage Toner lends to the Sitka, by the way)
> Other than the amount of yellow, what the heck is the difference
> between these two toners, anyway?
Just my opinion, but I wouldn't order a guitar with a toned top. I had that
discussion once, with Steve Swan when I ordered a semi-custom Santa Cruz. I
was after a quick fix... that great vintage look. He talked me out of it,
saying that if I really liked the guitar I'd be keeping it for a long time,
and it wouldn't take that many years for it to start looking good on its
own. He was right. The guitar's German spruce soundboard looked horribly
white to me when it first arrived. After a year or two, it was much better.
Now it's a bit over 6 years old, and the top looks great... a nice amber
color without chemical help.
One big problem with a toned/stained soundboard is that the wood will still
darken up a little over the years, and it's hard to predict where it will
end up. I have a toned-top '86 Guild that's drifted a bit towards the
orange side of deep amber, due to natural darkening in addition to the
stain color. It still looks good on that particular guitar, because they
used the stain on the flamed maple sides and neck also. The colors
integrate pretty well. But on a different guitar it might look weird.
You can speed up the natural darkening process if you keep your guitar out
on a stand near a window, for natural light exposure. Be careful about too
much heating from direct sunlight, depending on what climate you live in.
> Scale length; I know the long (25.4") scale is probably better for
> alternate tunings due to the higher tension of the strings. Since I
> have other guitars that are particularly well suited for that purpose,
> what tonal characteristics would a short-scale(24.9") neck offer over
> the longer scale? My fingers aren't exactly long and skinny, so I
> assume the short scale would be easier for me to do those fancy 'jazz
> chords'. <gr>
I'm a big fan of shorter (24 3/4" - 25") scales. Based on my experience, I
think you may give up a small amount of power and projection, but not
overall tone. If anything, shorter scales can sound a little "sweeter"...
although it depends on the individual guitar, string gauges used, etc.
There is a noticeable improvement (to me, anyway) in ease of fingering,
with just that 1/2" difference in scale length. I had my custom thinline
archtop built for a 25" scale, and my new nylon string guitar is 25" scale.
Taylor has started making shorter scale guitars. I think we might see this
as a growing trend, with all the aging baby boomers with fingers that don't
stretch as easily as they used to. Geezer guitars!
Normal light gauge will feel a little bit looser... great for blues bends,
but maybe not other things. If you want to retain the tension you feel on a
25.5" scale guitar, you can use a custom set of gauges. That will also help
balance any potential loss in volume or projection.
> I'm thinking 1 3/4 width at the nut and 2 5/16 at the bridge, which is
> something of a comprimise since I do SOME fingerstyle but mostly
> flatpicking - strumming, actually... The 000-28VS is 1 15/16 and 2
> 5/16 respectively.
That sounds good (for you, if you like it). I like wider nuts in the 1
7/8" range, but we all have different preferences here.
Good luck with the project!
--
Mike Barrs
Tony Done
like the look of them sufficiently that I would be prepared to put up with
the inconvenience when restringing, and I think they are a bit easier to
tune.
FWIW, I think I would choose englemann (if available) over adirondack, but
all else the same as you.
Tony D
"Mike brown" <rock...@senet.com.au> wrote in message
news:rockon02-050...@1cust112.tnt6.adl1.da.uu.net...
Mike brown
Done" <tony...@bigpond.com> wrote:
Restringing a slothead eats into my pickin' time.
#8^)
MJRB
Seriously, the look doesn't really do anything for me, except on a
classical, and the flatheads are easier to string.
Wayne Harrison
"Mike brown" <rock...@senet.com.au> wrote
> Restringing a slothead eats into my pickin' time.
>
> #8^)
>
> MJRB
>
> Seriously, the look doesn't really do anything for me, except on a
> classical, and the flatheads are easier to string.
although you are not the first to raise the issue, i have a ooo28vs that
presents me no more problem to restring than my other guitars. strange, eh?
wayne harrison
George W.
I'm kind of surprised by these comments too. It usually takes me less
time to string my slothead. One and a half turns are plenty since the
break angle is fixed. (More turns can lead to the string rubbing
against the slot.) A sharp bend at the end of the string eliminates
the need for locking the turns.
I think people have a problem when they take too many turns on the
pegs. You don't need it and it can make the strings a pain to remove.
G.
Tony Done
National-style slotheads than Martins, due to their narrow slots - my
Beltona has significant grooves at the bottom of the slots on the treble
side. The worst aspect of restringing a slothead for me is the behaviour of
the free end when winding on the string, and then cutting it off without
poking the finish with the end of the side cutters. I suppose I should cut
them to length before winding them on.
Tony
"George W." <geo_remove...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:djdc01hcl7rf08ob6...@4ax.com...
Steve Daniels
<tony...@bigpond.com>, to say:
>The problem with the strings rubbing on the slots is more evident on
>National-style slotheads than Martins, due to their narrow slots - my
>Beltona has significant grooves at the bottom of the slots on the treble
>side. The worst aspect of restringing a slothead for me is the behaviour of
>the free end when winding on the string, and then cutting it off without
>poking the finish with the end of the side cutters. I suppose I should cut
>them to length before winding them on.
You could take a pair of side cutters to a machine shop and have
the sides trimmed. They won't be as strong, but hey. It's only
a guitar string.
George W.
>The problem with the strings rubbing on the slots is more evident on
>National-style slotheads than Martins, due to their narrow slots - my
>Beltona has significant grooves at the bottom of the slots on the treble
>side. The worst aspect of restringing a slothead for me is the behaviour of
>the free end when winding on the string, and then cutting it off without
>poking the finish with the end of the side cutters. I suppose I should cut
>them to length before winding them on.
Works for me. Not trimming them first can lead to a mess. A 90 plus
degree bend snipped to 1/2" works fine. No locking or overwinding
needed. On my Martin D-18VS a couple of extra turns on the A and D
strings can lead to rubbing against the slot. I've never done it but
the previous owner obviously did. The direction of the wind..out or in
on the peg...can make a difference too.
G.
Mike brown
<geo_remove...@comcast.net> wrote:
On a flathead, I just slacken the strings, pull out the bridge pin and
uncoil the string off the post.
With a slot, you have to use a stringwinder to get the string off the post
quickly. JMHO
MJRB
Mike brown
<geo_remove...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 19:17:30 GMT, Tony Done wrote:
>
> >The problem with the strings rubbing on the slots is more evident on
> >National-style slotheads than Martins, due to their narrow slots - my
> >Beltona has significant grooves at the bottom of the slots on the treble
> >side. The worst aspect of restringing a slothead for me is the behaviour of
> >the free end when winding on the string, and then cutting it off without
> >poking the finish with the end of the side cutters. I suppose I should cut
> >them to length before winding them on.
>
> Works for me. Not trimming them first can lead to a mess. A 90 plus
> degree bend snipped to 1/2" works fine. No locking or overwinding
> needed. On my Martin D-18VS a couple of extra turns on the A and D
> strings can lead to rubbing against the slot. I've never done it but
> the previous owner obviously did. The direction of the wind..out or in
> on the peg...can make a difference too.
>
> G.
The coils on wound strings can loosen if you trim them before you tighten them.
Some string makers actually recommend that you don't trim until the string
is tight.
MJRB
George W.
>The coils on wound strings can loosen if you trim them before you tighten them.
>
>Some string makers actually recommend that you don't trim until the string
>is tight.
>
>MJRB
Newtones maybe. I have never, ever had a problem with coils loosening
on any strings I've used. As for needing a string winder to loosen
strings on a slothead....well, I've never done that either. There are
only about two turns on each peg and I just loosen slightly and use a
pair of needlenose pliers to pull the string out of the shaft hole. I
know people don't like stringing/unstringing slotheads and I respect
that. I've never found it to be a problem.
G.