Maple vs. Walnut and Koa

[Flyfis4fun]

Had a chance to play a Maple 614 ce Taylor yesterday and was very surprised by
the tone. Not nearly as bright and cold sounding as I expected it to be. In
fact I would even describe the tone as warm. Unfortunately the store didn't
have any of the Koa or Walnut backed series so I need to ask how these woods
tend to differ in tones compared to Maple

Thanks.

Mike

[SBoyke]

In a message dated Wed, Oct 14, 1998 9:24 AM, flyfi...@aol.com55 (Flyfis4fun)
wrote:

All other things being equal, b&s tonewoods go something like this:

From darkest to brightest: Rosewood, Walnut, Koa, Mahogany, Maple. However,
it isn't quite right to say maple is "simply" brighter than the others, or that
walnut is darker than koa. Each tonewood has unique aural characteristics.
Some describe these in terms of the amount of overtones produced relative to
the fundamental of the tone being played or some other technical description.
I tend to think of these sounds with descriptive words:

Rosewood: deep, rich, sustaining
Walnut: sweet, warm, honest
koa: excited, woody, balanced
mahogany: wholesome, woody, sparkling
maple: clear, smooth, direct

Many other factors effect the contribution these woods make to an instrument's
sound: the top wood, the body style, the luthier, the player, the music style.
For example, a koa/spruce guitar is a very different animal from a koa/cedar
one. A player using fingerpicks with poor technique (in the right hand) has a
hard time making any maple guitar sound at its potential, but can get by with
rosewood. Fast, intense pieces can become muddy sounding (even with supurb
technique) on large bodied guitars, particularly rosewood or walnut ones, but
the same pieces (with the same player) can sound less agitated, more accessible
(to the listener) with mahogany or maple. Each of these tonewoods can sound
wonderful, if part of a decent instrument played by a musician who cares about
tone (i.e., right hand chops).

Best solution: Pick one that speaks to your soul. In the following year or
two, get another but with different wood combinations, body style, luthier.
Keep this up for 10 years or so while your playing skills improve (10 hours per
week+). Take your "performance" temperature each 1000 hours of practice time.
At the end of ten years, you'll have many cool guitars and you'll be able to
play them very, very well.

--
SBo...@AOL.com

[Bob Abramowitz]

SBoyke wrote:
> Some describe these in terms of the amount of overtones produced:

> Rosewood: deep, rich, sustaining
> Walnut: sweet, warm, honest
> koa: excited, woody, balanced
> mahogany: wholesome, woody, sparkling
> maple: clear, smooth, direct

Hey, you forgot cabernet sauvignon and merlot!

Seriously: those are well-chosen adjectives for the woods at issue.

Bob "Oenophile" Abramowitz

[Jeannine Everhart]

It is difficult to describe sound, at least I find it difficult. You did
quite a nice job. I'll save your post. Thanks...

j9

SBoyke wrote in message <19981016013420...@ng-fb1.aol.com>...

>Rosewood: deep, rich, sustaining
>Walnut: sweet, warm, honest
>koa: excited, woody, balanced
>mahogany: wholesome, woody, sparkling
>maple: clear, smooth, direct
>

[Bruce White]

sbo...@aol.com (SBoyke) tickled his/her keyboard to write:

[SNIP]

>Rosewood: deep, rich, sustaining
>Walnut: sweet, warm, honest
>koa: excited, woody, balanced
>mahogany: wholesome, woody, sparkling
>maple: clear, smooth, direct

[SNIP]

Are we talking about tonewoods or wines? ;-)

(Just teasing those who know more than I about describing how a guitar
sounds. I always read these descriptions and it sounds an awful lot
like the way wine tasters describe the taste of various wines. My
little brain just can't understand these descriptions.)

Bruce
Bruce White
Senior Statistician, Imation
All opinions expressed etc., etc. ...
(Take the TRASH out of my email!)

[Luke Faulkenberry]

Hi S. Boyke,

Excellent post. As good a description as I have heard.

Luke

SBoyke <sbo...@aol.com> wrote in article

> Rosewood: deep, rich, sustaining
> Walnut: sweet, warm, honest
> koa: excited, woody, balanced
> mahogany: wholesome, woody, sparkling
> maple: clear, smooth, direct
>

[SteveY]

Bob Abramowitz wrote:
>
> SBoyke wrote:
> > Some describe these in terms of the amount of overtones produced:

>
> > Rosewood: deep, rich, sustaining
> > Walnut: sweet, warm, honest
> > koa: excited, woody, balanced
> > mahogany: wholesome, woody, sparkling
> > maple: clear, smooth, direct
>

> Hey, you forgot cabernet sauvignon and merlot!
>
> Seriously: those are well-chosen adjectives for the woods at issue.
>
> Bob "Oenophile" Abramowitz

I agree. It's really hard to make sense describing sounds, but SB has a good ear
and descriptions.
Naturally, since walnut was mentioned, I'll add my $0.02: It's da best!
-Steeb

[ken...@msn.com.au]

Great description.... about as good as I've seen it put.

Now, anyone want to try describing the "nose" of a 1963 00-28 Martin?

[BrianMcCar]

>From darkest to brightest: Rosewood, Walnut, Koa, Mahogany, Maple.

Interesting that this matches their order by albedo.

Maple is cold, light and sweet. Walnut is warmer and darker than maple, with a
meaty quality. Rosewood is very dark, warm and fragrant. Mahogany is rich and
authoritative. Koa is warm and distant, with a fiery undertone.

Sitka spruce has a big sound. Englemann is high, cold and dry. Adirondack is
older and more rounded. Red cedar is warmer and more nebulous than any of the
spruces. Redwood has the biggest sound of all. German spruce is precise and
disciplined.

>Rosewood: deep, rich, sustaining
>Walnut: sweet, warm, honest
>koa: excited, woody, balanced
>mahogany: wholesome, woody, sparkling
>maple: clear, smooth, direct

This is a cue for someone better at this than me.

Brian McCarthy

[Nick Naffin]

BrianMcCar wrote:

> German spruce is precise and disciplined.

You sure you're talking about wood here - or did a stereotype get the better of
you?

NN (Sour Kraut)
--
*********************************************************

NICK NAFFIN
acoustic guitarist
Toronto, Canada

http://www.interlog.com/~takenote/nicknaffin.htm

The new project:
http://www.interlog.com/~takenote/naffinwright.htm

********************************************************

[James Moat]

Hi SBoyke,
Thanks for the excellent descriptions. Where would you place
ovangkol on your list? I bought a Taylor 410 this summer and love
it. I looked at the 610 (didn't want a cutaway) the 710 (the
western red cedar was not as crisp to my untrained ears) and the
810 (loved it, but too expensive). The price was a factor, but I
love how this guitar looks and sounds.

BTW, this is a fabulous newsgroup. I am not a great guitarist,
but I am learning much from others' posts.

Thanks,
- James

--
- James

[fouad....@gmail.com]

On Friday, 16 October 1998 09:00:00 UTC+2, SBoyke wrote:
> In a message dated Wed, Oct 14, 1998 9:24 AM, flyfi...@aol.com55 (Flyfis4fun)
> wrote:
>
> >Had a chance to play a Maple 614 ce Taylor yesterday and was very surprised by
> >the tone. Not nearly as bright and cold sounding as I expected it to be. In
> >fact I would even describe the tone as warm. Unfortunately the store didn't
> >have any of the Koa or Walnut backed series so I need to ask how these woods
> >tend to differ in tones compared to Maple
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Mike
>
> All other things being equal, b&s tonewoods go something like this:
>
> From darkest to brightest: Rosewood, Walnut, Koa, Mahogany, Maple. However,
> it isn't quite right to say maple is "simply" brighter than the others, or that
> walnut is darker than koa. Each tonewood has unique aural characteristics.
> Some describe these in terms of the amount of overtones produced relative to
> the fundamental of the tone being played or some other technical description.
> I tend to think of these sounds with descriptive words:
>

> Rosewood: deep, rich, sustaining
> Walnut: sweet, warm, honest
> koa: excited, woody, balanced
> mahogany: wholesome, woody, sparkling
> maple: clear, smooth, direct
>

> Many other factors effect the contribution these woods make to an instrument's
> sound: the top wood, the body style, the luthier, the player, the music style.
> For example, a koa/spruce guitar is a very different animal from a koa/cedar
> one. A player using fingerpicks with poor technique (in the right hand) has a
> hard time making any maple guitar sound at its potential, but can get by with
> rosewood. Fast, intense pieces can become muddy sounding (even with supurb
> technique) on large bodied guitars, particularly rosewood or walnut ones, but
> the same pieces (with the same player) can sound less agitated, more accessible
> (to the listener) with mahogany or maple. Each of these tonewoods can sound
> wonderful, if part of a decent instrument played by a musician who cares about
> tone (i.e., right hand chops).
>
> Best solution: Pick one that speaks to your soul. In the following year or
> two, get another but with different wood combinations, body style, luthier.
> Keep this up for 10 years or so while your playing skills improve (10 hours per
> week+). Take your "performance" temperature each 1000 hours of practice time.
> At the end of ten years, you'll have many cool guitars and you'll be able to
> play them very, very well.
>
> --
> SBo...@AOL.com

@ SBoyke, thanks for the meaningful passionated description that I share although I am not a professional on the matter! What would you say about Pernambuco for instrument body, how would you describe its sound? Fouad

[Steve Hawkins]

fouad....@gmail.com wrote in
news:730d782f-741e-4305...@googlegroups.com:

Stephen wrote that post in 1998, I'm not sure he's around here anymore.

Steve Hawkins

[c21d...@gmail.com]

On Friday, October 16, 1998 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Bob Abramowitz wrote:
> SBoyke wrote:

> > Some describe these in terms of the amount of overtones produced:

>
> > Rosewood: deep, rich, sustaining
> > Walnut: sweet, warm, honest
> > koa: excited, woody, balanced
> > mahogany: wholesome, woody, sparkling
> > maple: clear, smooth, direct
>

> Hey, you forgot cabernet sauvignon and merlot!
>
> Seriously: those are well-chosen adjectives for the woods at issue.
>
> Bob "Oenophile" Abramowitz

Missed Engelmann Spruce, actually.