What finish material is on a Lowden?
Wade Hampton Miller
started the thread expressed admiration for the look of Lowden guitars. He's
got a custom guitar on order, and is trying to decide whether to go with a
satin finish or high gloss.
I wrote my usual "Remember, there are all SORTS of different finish materials
out there, they're not all the same" post in response, but don't actually know,
offhand, what sort of material Lowden's actually using.
It's not nitro-cellulose and I don't think it's poly UV, either. I vaguely
remember someone posting that it was an alcohol-based finish of some kind, but
I'd like more specific information than that, if possible.
Anyone know for certain?
Thanks in advance.
Wade Hampton Miller
Chugiak, Alaska
Remove the "Howdy" to reply...
Harmon Koeltz
could tell us.
HK
"Wade Hampton Miller" <hoj...@aol.comHowdy> wrote in message
news:20031107145734...@mb-m24.aol.com...
adrianfoden
> remember someone posting that it was an alcohol-based finish of some kind,
but
> I'd like more specific information than that, if possible.
It's just a regular polyester finish - the trick is that it gets hand rubbed
with steel wool to take it back to a very thin matt. Caught in the right
light the finish looks very hand-made... which is kind of cool in these days
of UV flash cured stuff.
Of course, look at a lowden square on and your eyes disappear into the grain
of the top - yum!
I have more details someplace - I'll see if I can dig them out.
adrianfoden
> I have more details someplace - I'll see if I can dig them out.
Found some more...
"The Lowden finish system is different in two ways at least from the
more comonly used satin finish on other guitars:
1) Other satin finishes are usually achieved by spraying one or two
coats of lacquer which contain a % of matting agent mixed into the
gloss base lacquer, thus satin lacquer in the tin has a 'milky'
appearance. Once dry, the satin coat is not touched or rubbed down in
any way. After a time this usually does go glossy, as with contact it
is more or less 'buffed' to a gloss. Lowden differs in that satin
lacquer is used all the way through the spray coats, not only the top
coats.
2) The final coat on a Lowden is rubbed down with very fine wet or dry
paper used wet and then steel wooled in 'tramlines' by hand. The finish
then looks great and feels very smooth. This adds to the depth of the
satin effect, thus resisting the effects of use much longer. On a non
rubbed finish the matting effect is achieved by the sprayed lacquer but
the hand rubbed matting is reached by, in effect, creating very fine
straight line scratches in the surface of the finish."
... so says George Lowden.
This isn't what I was thinking I had though. I'm sure I've more specific
detail elsewhere but can't seem to find it right now.
John Sorell
news:20031107145734...@mb-m24.aol.com:
Wade,
I certainly don't know, but I think the satin finish on Lowden's is quite
beautiful.
John
Peter MacDonald
<n...@thank.you> wrote:
Oops. Another reply in this thread was sent by mistake.
It is of interest that Lowden does NOT recommend using the usual guitar
polish (such as Martin's) on their finishes. They do recommend a
product called Punch Leather Care. I had experience with this product
when I owned a Lowden, and it does work very well for that particular
finish.
Peter
Julian Templeman
>I certainly don't know, but I think the satin finish on Lowden's is quite
>beautiful.
Yeah... the satin finish on mine certainly was, till I polished it for
years using ordinary polish. It's nice and shiny now :-)
jt
in london
Templeman Consulting Ltd.
London and North Wales
Patrick Murray
When I asked Lowden last year, what finish was on my F12.
Dave Ingham from Lowden told me it was a type of chemically formulated
Nitrocellulose.
Regards
Pat
Wade Hampton Miller
> What finish material is on a Lowden?
Patrick Murray wrote:
Did he actually say "nitrocellulose," or did he use the word "lacquer?"
Because it really doesn't behave like any nitro finish I've ever seen.
Over on the builder's newsgroup, British luthier Alan Marshall wrote that the
Lowden guys told HIM that it was an "acid catalyzed lacquer," which tells you
quite a bit and not much at all, both at the same time!
It could be that it's a nitro coat that then has some other chemical sprayed on
it, to give it that look and to also add some toughness to it.
One of the reasons I step into a lot of these threads when guitar finishes get
discussed is that the typical assumption on a lot of players' parts is that
there are two kinds of finishes: high gloss and satin.
The reality, of course, is that there are all SORTS of finishes available to
the guitar industry these days, it's a very competitive field, and it CHANGES -
what a guitar company was using five or ten years ago might not be what it's
using right now.
To make it even MORE complicated, a lot of the companies consider this finish
information to be proprietary knowledge: trade secrets, in other words.
So even if they DO tell you what's on there, they might not be giving you all
the information or even the basic truth....
So it makes it interesting trying to suss out exactly who's using what.
Anyway, thanks for the input, Patrick.
John Fowler
> After I asked:
>
> > What finish material is on a Lowden?
>
> Patrick Murray wrote:
>
> >When I asked Lowden last year, what finish was on my F12.>Dave Ingham from
> Lowden told me it was a type of chemically formulated
> >Nitrocellulose.
>
>
> Did he actually say "nitrocellulose," or did he use the word "lacquer?"
> Because it really doesn't behave like any nitro finish I've ever seen.
For what it's worth, Dermot Mcilroy uses an acid-catalyzed
nitrocellulose lacquer (yes, he actually said "nitrocellulose" and
"lacquer"). Since as far as I can tell it's the same as they use up
the road at Lowden, I think that's pretty close ta bein' yer answer.
John
Alan Marshall
And the fact that Dermot used to work for Lowden...............
Best Wishes, --
Alan Marshall
web site http://www.northworthy.com
e-mail in...@northworthy.com
adrianfoden
> >> Did he actually say "nitrocellulose," or did he use the word "lacquer?"
> >> Because it really doesn't behave like any nitro finish I've ever seen.
> >
> >For what it's worth, Dermot Mcilroy uses an acid-catalyzed
> >nitrocellulose lacquer (yes, he actually said "nitrocellulose" and
> >"lacquer"). Since as far as I can tell it's the same as they use up
> >the road at Lowden, I think that's pretty close ta bein' yer answer.
> >
> >John
> And the fact that Dermot used to work for Lowden...............
> Best Wishes, --
> Alan Marshall
The splendid McIlroy guitars undoubtedly show much of their Lowden heritage
but introducing them into the discussion about the Lowden finish is a bit of
a red herring. They're different.
I've snarfed (yet again!) a direct quote from Dermot to the lowden list
about this...
"...but for the record there are a few things you all should know. Having
worked for Lowdens for TEN years, the influences will always be there and I
am proud to say I have been influenced by Lowdens although my main influence
was former Lowden production manager Micky Uchida. Yes my guitars are
similar to Lowden except for the fact that the shape is different, as is the
all important Strut design, the Rosette and Soundhole, the Bindings and
Purfling inlays, the neck shape and thickness, the headstock, the thickness
of every piece of timber used, including Back & Sides and Top, the Lacquer
and the finishing process, yes even the bridge (although I do accept it is
very similar)and of course last but not least the sound (not better or worse
but different). Apart from these then I suppose it the same or is the fact
that I worked for the company and there is an automatic association made. I
have every respect for my former employer and I wish them good luck with
thier new Avalon range."
Patrick Murray
"Wade Hampton Miller" <hoj...@aol.comHowdy> wrote in message
> After I asked:
>
> > What finish material is on a Lowden?
>
> Patrick Murray wrote:
>
> >When I asked Lowden last year, what finish was on my F12.>Dave Ingham
from
> Lowden told me it was a type of chemically formulated
> >Nitrocellulose.
>
>
> Did he actually say "nitrocellulose," or did he use the word "lacquer?"
> Because it really doesn't behave like any nitro finish I've ever seen.
>
Wade
I just dug out the e-mail from Lowden. It does say nitrocellulose.
I originally asked the question because of a warning on my guitar stand
about the
pigment in the sleeves migrating to nitrocellulose lacquer.
You have raised a good point about manufacturers wanting to protect what
they consider proprietry
knowledge though.
In any case regardless of the finish they do make great guitars, really
light and responsive.
Patrick
Patrick Murray
"Wade Hampton Miller" <hoj...@aol.comHowdy> wrote in message
news:20031111215704...@mb-m24.aol.com...
>
> > What finish material is on a Lowden?
>
> Patrick Murray wrote:
>
> >When I asked Lowden last year, what finish was on my F12.>Dave Ingham
from
> Lowden told me it was a type of chemically formulated
> >Nitrocellulose.
>
>
> Did he actually say "nitrocellulose," or did he use the word "lacquer?"
> Because it really doesn't behave like any nitro finish I've ever seen.
Wade
I just dug out the e-mail from Lowden. It does say nitrocellulose.
I originally asked the question because of a warning on my guitar stand
about thepigment in the sleeves migrating to nitrocellulose lacquer.
You have raised a good point about manufacturers wanting to protect what
they consider proprietry knowledge though.
In any case regardless of the finish they do make great guitars, really
light and responsive.
Patrick
P.S This may appear twice as I got an error first time I posted it. If it
does then
I apologise profusely..