So I Chose the Fishman Rare Earth Blend
Troubleman
- Fishman Rare Earth Blend or EMF Acoustics B-band with condenser mic.
I ended up getting the Rare Earth Blend; I purchased three of them and
got a pretty good deal on the price. A friend who's Larrivee was stolen
recently needed a pickup, and another guitar player at my church
decided he'd had it with the clip-on microphone pickup he'd been using.
The store I went to had them in stock, the three of us agreed that they
sounded great, they offered us a deal - done. I've only gotten to use
the Rare Earth Blend once live - in church on Sunday through my
California Blonde. I need to fiddle around witht the location of the
floating microphone so I'll post a full review later, but my immediate
impression is very favorable. I had reservations about the pickup
sounding to "humbucker-ish", but it really does sound very natural. The
mic does a great job of capturing "the wood" of the instrument. I'd
concerns about catching the pickup with my fingers while picking; while
I do occasionally hit it with my picking hand pinky when finger-picking
at the front edge of the soundhole, it's really not a problem. So far,
all smiles.
peace,
jb
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David Kilpatrick
where I play just over the topmost frets (yes, unusual, but that's where
I normally play). Provides an extra small support and stops me wearing a
tiny hole in the lacquer! DK
"Troubleman (Jay Brown)" wrote:
>
> I ended up getting the Rare Earth Blend
I'd
> concerns about catching the pickup with my fingers while picking; while
> I do occasionally hit it with my picking hand pinky when finger-picking
> at the front edge of the soundhole, it's really not a problemS
George Reiswig
balance. As usual with magnetic pickups and bronze-wound strings, the first
and second string were too hot. The sound was not bad, though. Not as
natural as I'd like, but as part of a mic/magnetic/saddle system, a Rare
Earth with good string-to-string balance would probably be a good option.
GR
David Kilpatrick wrote in message
<3830551C...@maxwellplace.demon.co.uk>...
Charley Bonner
>balance. As usual with magnetic pickups and bronze-wound strings, the first
>and second string were too hot. The sound was not bad, though. Not as
Fishman sells a shim kit where you can raise the bass side very easily and fix
the balance. I've been using one stock for about a year and love it.
Charley
Adrian Legg
> I tried one of these, and I wasn't all that impressed with the string
> balance. As usual with magnetic pickups and bronze-wound strings, the first
> and second string were too hot.
Hi George; I don't think I ever had a magnetic that didn't benefit from
nickel strings. Apart from the balance,I think stuff goes missing in the
harmonics when the wrap is non-ferrous, but can't quantify it.
Contact info: www.adrianlegg.com
or http://www.roe.ac.uk/mjpwww/legghead.htm
George Reiswig
on had "zebra" strings, where the wraps alternated nickel and bronze. Even
with these, the balance problem was obvious...but I didn't notice a "shim
kit" as another contributor had suggested. Acoustically, I didn't care for
the zebra strings tone, either.
As with most compromises, it was far from optimal. Are the missing
harmonics in the amplified sound, or the acoustic sound? Might be useful
for people who are shopping.
As for me and my house, we'll stick with the B-Band!
GR
Adrian Legg wrote in message
<1e1buud.5x...@p119.nas1.is5.u-net.net>...
Adrian Legg
>. Are the missing
> harmonics in the amplified sound, or the acoustic sound?+++snip++++
Oops, I could have been clearer, couldn't I ?
Well, any harmonic with a node point right over the pick-up isn't going
to get picked up and amplified anyway - and this includes beautifully
struck artificial harmonics which (amplified) degenerate into
embarassing splats.
Also I think that the amplified tone of the ferrous core only on a
non-ferrous or bronze wound string sounds extremely weird, and that
switching to a ferrous wrap not only sorts out the balance problem but
dramatically increases the harmonic range of the amplified tone - though
obviously not to the point of bringing back the harmonics with the node
points right over the pick-up.
I've always assumed the acoustically inhibiting effect of hanging a
chunk of metal and plastic on a soundboard is actually useful in terms
of reducing feedback....
George Reiswig
vibration at all for that given frequency, so the pickup wouldn't...pick up!
Rather a clever physics observation, Adrian, and it explains a few things
that I've noticed before.
As for the tone, I'm growing more and more convinced that there are many
more ways to skin this cat than just one. Some people like the magnetic
tone, heavily processed, and that can sound great. Others like the B-Band,
with few effects or processing, and that can sound great. Others view any
amplification as an abomination. There are as many tones out there as there
are people and guitars, and many of them sound very good. To me, any
amplification is going to compromise the acoustic tone to some degree, even
a perfectly recorded acoustic guitar using $8000 mics and wonderful
recording equipment. I'm just happy I'm finding a tone that I find highly
usable.
GR
Adrian Legg wrote in message
<1e1cxpu.cm...@p66.nas2.is5.u-net.net>...
(SNIP)>Well, any harmonic with a node point right over the pick-up isn't
Adrian Legg
> Wow! I never thought of that...at a node, the string doesn't have any
> vibration at all for that given frequency, so the pickup wouldn't...pick up!
> Rather a clever physics observation, Adrian,
Oh no, it would have been clever if I'd figured it out *before* I tried
to play those harmonics in public - this stuff came out at the inquest.
:-)
--
George Reiswig
Still...
GR
Adrian Legg wrote in message
<1e1dmiy.fbw...@p93.nas2.is5.u-net.net>...
DEidelberg
>that I've noticed before.
Of course Mr. Legg is smarter than most of us. He has that accent (GRIN).
>As for the tone, I'm growing more and more convinced that there are many
>more ways to skin this cat than just one.
Is the cat named Tiddles?
Dick Schneiders
>
>
If you think that it is beautiful sounding here on the newsgroup, you should
hear it on personal email. :-)
Dick (I can't wait to actually meet Adrian and hear it in person) Schneiders
Troubleman
It goes with the demeanor - I'm telling you he floored the Capitol
Ballroom (Wash, DC) G3 show a few years back. For the remainder of the
evening I heard a bunch of poodle-haired shredders in 'Vai RULES!!!'
sleeve-less shirts ask "Dude - who WAS that guy from (fill in a
country: England, Scotland, Ireland, Canada, and others)?!? He was like
absolutely-wicked-killer!!!" Given his demeanor, somehow I can't hear
Mr. Legg using the phrase "absolutely-wicked-killer" in a description
of his music. That said, given his accent - I'm sure it would sound
quite stately if he did. :-)
pgku...@my-deja.com
the Rare Earth Humbucker with a Seymour Duncan SA2 pickup (I have these
on a Martin CHD-35). The SA2 has a very natural acoustic sound (no
piezo quack at all) but somewhat bass heavy without compensation. The
Rare Earth has a nice balanced sound and can deliver the brightness the
SA2 tends to lack. I feed the two signals into a BOSS AD-5 and blend
to taste.
The resulting combination I think is much better than a Rare Earth
blender because the SA2 is much less feedback prone than the Rare Earth
microphone (I have on of these on another guitar) and in fact all of
the mix can be weighted to this pickup if desired.
The nice thing is that you have the option to go all magnetic for some
tunes, all SA2 for others, or just set an appropriate blend and leave
it. I have found the Rare Earth blender too feedback prone to ever do
a 100% mic blend, and in fact have to generally allocate better than
50% of the blend to the mag pickup.
The trick is to get a 4 terminal strap jack (L.R. Baggs sells one) and
use a stereo cable with a splitter on the end.
Paul Kucharski
Acoustic Fingerstyle Guitar
http://www.execpc.com/~pgkuchar/index.html
In article <80s86l$3...@news.or.intel.com>,
"George Reiswig" <george....@intel.com> wrote:
> Wow! I never thought of that...at a node, the string doesn't have any
> vibration at all for that given frequency, so the pickup
wouldn't...pick up!
> Rather a clever physics observation, Adrian, and it explains a few
things
> that I've noticed before.
>
> As for the tone, I'm growing more and more convinced that there are
many
> more ways to skin this cat than just one. Some people like the
magnetic
> tone, heavily processed, and that can sound great. Others like the B-
Band,
> with few effects or processing, and that can sound great. Others
view any
> amplification as an abomination. There are as many tones out there
as there
> are people and guitars, and many of them sound very good. To me, any
> amplification is going to compromise the acoustic tone to some
degree, even
> a perfectly recorded acoustic guitar using $8000 mics and wonderful
> recording equipment. I'm just happy I'm finding a tone that I find
highly
> usable.
>
> GR
>
> Adrian Legg wrote in message
> <1e1cxpu.cm...@p66.nas2.is5.u-net.net>...
> (SNIP)>Well, any harmonic with a node point right over the pick-up
isn't
> going
> >to get picked up and amplified anyway - and this includes beautifully
> >struck artificial harmonics which (amplified) degenerate into
> >embarassing splats.
> >
> >Also I think that the amplified tone of the ferrous core only on a
> >non-ferrous or bronze wound string sounds extremely weird, and that
> >switching to a ferrous wrap not only sorts out the balance problem
but
> >dramatically increases the harmonic range of the amplified tone -
though
> >obviously not to the point of bringing back the harmonics with the
node
> >points right over the pick-up.
> >
> >I've always assumed the acoustically inhibiting effect of hanging a
> >chunk of metal and plastic on a soundboard is actually useful in
terms
> >of reducing feedback....
> >
> >
> >Contact info: www.adrianlegg.com
> >or http://www.roe.ac.uk/mjpwww/legghead.htm
> >
> >
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Adrian Legg
> The trick is to get a 4 terminal strap jack (L.R. Baggs sells one) and
> use a stereo cable with a splitter on the end.
Did you ever try the EMG jack with the little coiled spring contacts
inside ? It looked very elegant, but I wondered how it worked out in
practice...it looked like an extra set of dry connections.
--
George Reiswig
I actually use these (EMG UltraJacks) with both of my instruments'
B-Band/Mic systems. They work very well, and are more reliable in my
experience than other jacks. I've had several other jacks (including early
Switchcraft jacks that EMF used) fail on me when the contact got bent out of
position. The EMG (Not to be confused with our Finnish friends) jacks don't
have this problem.
The connections on it are for a TRS plug plus a battery "on" switch when
plugged in.
GR
Adrian Legg wrote in message
<1e1f7ob.1ls...@p21.nas2.is5.u-net.net>...
Troubleman
skeptical about the Fishman Rare Earth Blend set-up; I wasn't getting
the sound I wanted. After getting the internal mic aimed for optimal
sound I was happier, but still not pleased. I was running directly into
an SWR California Blonde w/Blonde on Blonde powered ext. cabinet. After
fooling with my rig for over an hour, I ran my signal through an LR
Baggs ParaAcoustic DI, then through "the Blondes" - Bingo! The set-up
really rocks; I'm quite pleased with the sound. That ParaAcoustic DI is
amazing - mostly the controls were set flat. I think I tweaked the
notch filter a tad to kill feedback, and goosed the sweepable mids a
hair, and added just a touch of treble. If you look at the controls the
are almost at zero. Whatever, I got the sound I wanted. I'd completly
forgotten that I'd used the ParaAcoustic DI yesterday at church. I'd
used it because I hadn't had a chance to aim the internal mic
optimally, and wanted to use the EQ in the ParaAcoustic DI to
compensate until I did get it aimed. I made a couple of adjustments and
played the mass, thinking I'd adjust the mic properly today. In the
final analysis, the Rare Earth Blend is capable of delivering the
goods. I think Mr. Legg was correct - it offers less feedback, probably
because of the soundhole pickup. The high-E is a bit hot, but no worse
than I've experienced with some ribbon transducers I've tried. All in
all the Rare Earth Blend sounds great. I'm getting alot of bottom end
without "booming" bass, and getting the sound of the wood, the sound of
the inside of the instrument without that nasal "honk" sound.
Surprisingly, the highs are quite nice as well. After fiddling witht he
blend control and getting it to where I liked the sound - it's pretty
close to where Fishman put the detent. Maybe they knew what they were
doing? Anywho (sic) the Taylor 410K sounds great with this pickup. Now
that I've the sound I want, I'm antsy to play...
pgku...@my-deja.com
I haven't tried these and actually didn't know about them. I need to
do a little research and see if I can find some information on them. I
checked Elderly Instruments and Stewart/McDonald and didn't see those
listed.
One of the unique aspects of this solution is that the guitar now has
two preamps and therefore two batteries. But I believe both the Rare
Earth and SA preamps disengage the battery when the jack isn't plugged
in. So a 4 terminal jack should do the trick except that this solution
probably won't support a mono cord any longer.
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll check it out.
Paul Kucharski
In article <1e1f7ob.1ls...@p21.nas2.is5.u-net.net>,
Commerc...@speech.com (Adrian Legg) wrote:
> <pgku...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > The trick is to get a 4 terminal strap jack (L.R. Baggs sells one)
and
> > use a stereo cable with a splitter on the end.
>
> Did you ever try the EMG jack with the little coiled spring contacts
> inside ? It looked very elegant, but I wondered how it worked out in
> practice...it looked like an extra set of dry connections.
>
> --
> Contact info: www.adrianlegg.com
> or http://www.roe.ac.uk/mjpwww/legghead.htm
>
>
Adrian Legg
>
> One of the unique aspects of this solution is that the guitar now has
> two preamps and therefore two batteries.
Well, unless the power consumption is unusually high or the voltages are
significantly different, there's no reason really why one shouldn't run
them both off the same battery. If one is a significantly lower voltage,
then it become a matter of figuring out resistor values to drop the
supply to it [don't look at me for the sums :-) ] In any case, switching
the battery on is usually simply a matter of shorting the battery
negative to ground, so why couldn't one socket could short both
batteries on the same contact ? I've run three separate units inside the
same guitar this way.
You'd be doing the same thing via a four contact socket as with a three
contact stereo one.
>But I believe both the Rare
> Earth and SA preamps disengage the battery when the jack isn't plugged
> in. So a 4 terminal jack should do the trick except that this solution
> probably won't support a mono cord any longer.
The point of a four contact socket is that it will support stereo *and*
still offer the opportunity via the extra barrel contact to short the
battery neg. to ground - tip for one signal, ring for the other signal,
one barrel contact off ground for the battery neg., and the fourth
contact grounded.
Doing it along the socket barrel saves all those insulated leaf contacts
that fatigue and get dusty, and makes it all easier to fit in an end-pin
jack.
George's experience with the EMG in practice is encouraging - I have
heard an adverse commentfrom a repairer here. My only caveat would be
that I think they'd need a regular squirt of contact cleaner because
both the contacts with the plug *and* the contacts via the springs with
the socket's actual (copper) contacts are dry.
I assume they have a web site somewhere..?
Unsung96
easier. It sounds pretty darn good. I'm not exactly sure what it sounds like
but it's a nice sound. I don't think I'd go straight to a DI without someother
EQ in line but through a Fishman Blender it sounds decent. I'm combining it
with the Fishman prefix that's already on there. It's a pretty large sound. It
ain't a mic and it ain't a piezo but I think I'm liking it. That's today
though.
pgku...@my-deja.com
> Well, unless the power consumption is unusually high or the voltages
are
> significantly different, there's no reason really why one shouldn't
run
> them both off the same battery. If one is a significantly lower
voltage,
> then it become a matter of figuring out resistor values to drop the
> supply to it [don't look at me for the sums :-) ] In any case,
switching
> the battery on is usually simply a matter of shorting the battery
> negative to ground, so why couldn't one socket could short both
> batteries on the same contact ? I've run three separate units inside
the
> same guitar this way.
It turns out that the Rare Earth doesn't bring out the battery wires,
so I don't have the option of wiring that battery to the jack. I still
have to see if the SA brings the battery wires to the existing jack
that's on there now.
>
> I assume they have a web site somewhere..?
>
I did find the EMG web site and got some information on the UltraJack.
It also turns out Elderly does carry them and sells them for $18. So
I'm going to take your suggestion and try this. I'll let you know how
it works out. I know I like the combined sound, now I just need to
make it permanent.
Paul Kucharski
Acoustic Fingerstyle Guitar
http://www.execpc.com/~pgkuchar/index.html
hank alrich
I did a sound reinforcement gig last night with Kelly Joe Phelps. He had
the Fishman RE humbuckerss in both of his guitars, and they sounded
marvelous. Fed pickup to Jensen transformer-based DI to Great River
MP2-MH mic pre, and then to a Millennia NSEQ-2 parametric, with which I
rolled-off less than 2 dB at 8 Khz. Sounded more acoustic without the
roll-off, but that's what his companion roadwarrior wanted. All in all
it sounded marvelous, but that's generally a given with such a player.
--
hank - secret mountain
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