Internet Radio Dealt Potentially Fatal Blow

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G'ville Cyclist

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Apr 17, 2007, 4:54:22 PM4/17/07
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Whither Whole Wheat Radio, Acoustic Stage, et.al?
<http://www.technewsworld.com/story/9sreyAt1DVZhus/Internet-Radio-
Dealt-Potentially-Fatal-Blow.xhtml>

G'ville Cyclist

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Apr 17, 2007, 4:56:26 PM4/17/07
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Sorry for the long url - try this
<http://tinyurl.com/ytnmna>

David Martel

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Apr 18, 2007, 9:31:26 AM4/18/07
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Cyclist,

How do these royalties compare with broadcast radio? This seems like a
supply and demand thing to me. Why does the author want Congress to fix this
rather than just letting the various groups sort it out over time.

Dave M.


don hindenach

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Apr 18, 2007, 9:49:15 AM4/18/07
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On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 13:31:26 UTC, "David Martel" <mart...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Cyclist,
>
> How do these royalties compare with broadcast radio?

Massively larger, especially for small stations. A bit larger, only if the
station is large and mainstream and well-connected in the industry.

> This seems like a
> supply and demand thing to me. Why does the author want Congress to fix this
> rather than just letting the various groups sort it out over time.

because congress/government is the one that is breaking it

The new fee structure is an obvoius ploy to remove competition and feed the
same-ol' same-ol' of the "music" industry

--
-donh-
donh at audiosys dot com

Al Evans

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Apr 20, 2007, 8:13:07 AM4/20/07
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In article <1176843262....@b58g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,

G'ville Cyclist <goo...@sulger.net> wrote:

Here's an email I got yesterday from Jean Synodinos, an excellent
singer-songwriter friend of mine (and by the way, she plays guitar quite
well, too:-).

-----

Hey friends --
 
Jean here.  You're getting this email if you're a good friend or a big
fan of music or a musician (or some adorable combo of the three).
 
If you're not yet aware, Internet radio is about to be shang-hai'ed by
Big Business.  These small radio stations are about to be charged
royalty payments.  Seems like a decent idea on the surface (I've gotten
tons of internet airplay, and who doesn't want to get paid for their
music?), but most of these stations don't generate anywhere near enough
revenue to afford these rates (which are to be back-paid to January
2006).  They'll shut their cyber doors, fast.  The probable consequence
for those that survive will be that they need to take on all the
trappings of terrestrial radio in order to survive.  These small
stations are generally run by the biggest of fans, for the love of the
music.  I owe a LOT to many of these stations; they've given me lots of
airplay, some great interviews, and generated fans and internet sales
for me I'd have never otherwise had.
 
And so, if I might be so bold as to ask, kindly take five minutes to
take action.  If you're an artist, this link is for you: 
http://www3.capwiz.com/saveinternetradio/issues/alert/?alertid=9631491
 
If you're a fan, this link is for you: 
http://www3.capwiz.com/saveinternetradio/issues/alert/?alertid=9631541
 
If you're interested in learning more, visit:
http://www.savethestreams.org/serendipity/ and
http://www.counterpunch.org/wilhelms04102007.html
 
Yes, it would be great to be paid for that airplay, but my music is
worth absolutely nothing if no one ever hears it--and that's exactly
what will happen if this royalty structure is signed into law.  I look
at internet radio as a very meaningful promotional tool, and I'm
grateful for its existence.
 
Thanks, y'all!
 
Jean
 
-----

In my opinion, she's right as rain. This is NOT about getting royalties
for the likes of her and me (and Mike Rickard, and George Wirth, and all
of the other songwriters who are never going to get any airplay on Clear
Channel stations). It is about squashing the competition.

Yes, I followed the link and sent email to my Senators and Congressman.
It only takes a couple of minutes. Go for it!

Thanks,
--Al Evans--

Larry Brown

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Apr 20, 2007, 9:44:18 AM4/20/07
to
On Apr 20, 7:13 am, Al Evans <a...@tbtm.org> wrote:
> In article <1176843262.151823.25...@b58g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,

> G'ville Cyclist <goo...@sulger.net> wrote:
>
> > Whither Whole Wheat Radio, Acoustic Stage, et.al?
> > <http://www.technewsworld.com/story/9sreyAt1DVZhus/Internet-Radio-Deal...>

>
> Here's an email I got yesterday from Jean Synodinos, an excellent
> singer-songwriter friend of mine (and by the way, she plays guitar quite
> well, too:-).
>
> -----
>
> Hey friends --
>
> Jean here. You're getting this email if you're a good friend or a big
> fan of music or a musician (or some adorable combo of the three).
>
> If you're not yet aware, Internet radio is about to be shang-hai'ed by
> Big Business. These small radio stations are about to be charged
> royalty payments. Seems like a decent idea on the surface (I've gotten
> tons of internet airplay, and who doesn't want to get paid for their
> music?), but most of these stations don't generate anywhere near enough
> revenue to afford these rates (which are to be back-paid to January
> 2006). They'll shut their cyber doors, fast. The probable consequence
> for those that survive will be that they need to take on all the
> trappings of terrestrial radio in order to survive. These small
> stations are generally run by the biggest of fans, for the love of the
> music. I owe a LOT to many of these stations; they've given me lots of
> airplay, some great interviews, and generated fans and internet sales
> for me I'd have never otherwise had.
>
> And so, if I might be so bold as to ask, kindly take five minutes to
> take action. If you're an artist, this link is for you: http://www3.capwiz.com/saveinternetradio/issues/alert/?alertid=9631491
>
> If you're a fan, this link is for you: http://www3.capwiz.com/saveinternetradio/issues/alert/?alertid=9631541
>
> If you're interested in learning more, visit:http://www.savethestreams.org/serendipity/ andhttp://www.counterpunch.org/wilhelms04102007.html

>
> Yes, it would be great to be paid for that airplay, but my music is
> worth absolutely nothing if no one ever hears it--and that's exactly
> what will happen if this royalty structure is signed into law. I look
> at internet radio as a very meaningful promotional tool, and I'm
> grateful for its existence.
>
> Thanks, y'all!
>
> Jean
>
> -----
>
> In my opinion, she's right as rain. This is NOT about getting royalties
> for the likes of her and me (and Mike Rickard, and George Wirth, and all
> of the other songwriters who are never going to get any airplay on Clear
> Channel stations). It is about squashing the competition.
>
> Yes, I followed the link and sent email to my Senators and Congressman.
> It only takes a couple of minutes. Go for it!
>
> Thanks,
> --Al Evans--

I'm glad to hear some artists speaking up on this. As soon I as first
started
hearing about these new rates and the impact they would have, I
thought
"But what about the exposure the artist gets?"
I don't know HOW much music I've bought on iTunes after hearing it on
Radio
Paradise, Martha's Vineyard Radio, and some other obscure internet
stations.
I've signed all the petitions I've seen, but I'm just waiting to see
how much of
my internet radio starts disappearing when this goes into effect.
Gonna' be sad.
Corporations rule I guess.

Isolated Larry in Michoacan

Bill Chandler

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Apr 20, 2007, 11:12:26 AM4/20/07
to
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:13:07 GMT, Al Evans <a...@tbtm.org> brewed up the
following, and served it to the group:

Al, thanks for this link. And thanks to Jean for sending this out. I
sent the mail...
--------
... Always tell her she is beautiful, even if she isn't.

the above e-mail address remains totally fictional.
the real one is bc9424@spamTHIS!.concentric.net (if you remove spamTHIS!.)
...please check out my music at http://www.soundclick.com/billchandler some time...
...Pictures and such at http://bc9424.cnc.net/txpicslinks.html

Bill Chandler
...bc...

Ty Ford

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Apr 20, 2007, 11:40:39 AM4/20/07
to
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:54:22 -0400, G'ville Cyclist wrote
(in article <1176843262....@b58g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>):

> Whither Whole Wheat Radio, Acoustic Stage, et.al?
> <http://www.technewsworld.com/story/9sreyAt1DVZhus/Internet-Radio-
> Dealt-Potentially-Fatal-Blow.xhtml>
>

No problem. Pandora.com PAYS royalties.
Great service btw.

Regards,

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

G'ville Cyclist

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Apr 21, 2007, 8:23:29 PM4/21/07
to
On Apr 20, 11:40 am, Ty Ford <tyreef...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:54:22 -0400, G'ville Cyclist wrote
> (in article <1176843262.151823.25...@b58g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>):

>
> > Whither Whole Wheat Radio, Acoustic Stage, et.al?
> > <http://www.technewsworld.com/story/9sreyAt1DVZhus/Internet-Radio-
> > Dealt-Potentially-Fatal-Blow.xhtml>
>
> No problem. Pandora.com PAYS royalties.
> Great service btw.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford
>
> --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
> Acting and Voiceover Demoshttp://www.tyford.com
> Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

Ty,
So you think the new law is a good thing for artists like me who send
out CD's to whole wheat and some other stations and get a few plays
and sales?
PS. Looks like I've been to Pandora - it says I like the Leo Kottke
station - that sounds about right. Thanks for the tip.
Art
Art

Ty Ford

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Apr 22, 2007, 8:38:01 AM4/22/07
to
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 20:23:29 -0400, G'ville Cyclist wrote
(in article <1177201409.7...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>):

Art,

Whether or not the law is good for you I can't say. I know musicians who
belong to ASCAP and or BMI who have never gotten a dime, even though their
music has been played on AM and FM.

Being able to upload anything anywhere is a freedom fraught with problems.
I mentioned copright on a site where someone had uploaded his own version of
a Beatles tune; a clear copyright infringement. Someone responded, "Hey man,
it's YouTube.", as if that made it OK. That was just weeks before the
lawsuit.

And, btw, while pandora has worked out a performance plan in the US, they
were still in search of a solution in Europe about 2 months ago when I wrote
an article including them.

Regards,

Ty Ford


--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services

Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

G'ville Cyclist

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Apr 22, 2007, 6:21:13 PM4/22/07
to

> And, btw, while pandora has worked out a performance plan in the US, they
> were still in search of a solution in Europe about 2 months ago when I wrote
> an article including them.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford
>
> --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
> Acting and Voiceover Demoshttp://www.tyford.com
> Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

Ty,
Is the article on-line?
Art

slideways

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Apr 23, 2007, 11:55:46 AM4/23/07
to
On Apr 20, 8:40 am, Ty Ford <tyreef...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:54:22 -0400, G'ville Cyclist wrote
> (in article <1176843262.151823.25...@b58g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>):

>
> > Whither Whole Wheat Radio, Acoustic Stage, et.al?
> > <http://www.technewsworld.com/story/9sreyAt1DVZhus/Internet-Radio-
> > Dealt-Potentially-Fatal-Blow.xhtml>
>
> No problem. Pandora.com PAYS royalties.
> Great service btw.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford
>

Pandora and live 365 are both out of business if they are forced
to pay the new rates. Royalties will far exceed their income if forced
to pay. The 3 judges of the CRB (Copyright Review Board) probably all
have VCR's at home blinking twelve O'clock.
Janis Ian and Claudia Schmidt have websites which show they have not
received dime one for their work. The royalties go to lawyers and
bureaucracy in the recording industry. The RIAA is large and evil
IMO..
sw

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

G'ville Cyclist

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May 5, 2007, 6:07:09 PM5/5/07
to
On May 1, 8:11 am, Larry Brown <larrybro...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Apr 23, 10:55 am, slideways <SprintCar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 20, 8:40 am, Ty Ford <tyreef...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:54:22 -0400, G'ville Cyclist wrote
> > > (in article <1176843262.151823.25...@b58g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>):
>
> > > > Whither Whole WheatRadio, Acoustic Stage, et.al?

> > > > <http://www.technewsworld.com/story/9sreyAt1DVZhus/Internet-Radio-
> > > > Dealt-Potentially-Fatal-Blow.xhtml>
>
> > > No problem. Pandora.com PAYS royalties.
> > > Great service btw.
>
> > > Regards,
>
> > > Ty Ford
>
> > Pandora and live 365 are both out of business if they are forced
> > to pay the new rates. Royalties will far exceed their income if forced
> > to pay. The 3 judges of the CRB (Copyright Review Board) probably all
> > have VCR's at home blinking twelve O'clock.
> > Janis Ian and Claudia Schmidt have websites which show they have not
> > received dime one for their work. The royalties go to lawyers and
> > bureaucracy industry. The RIAA is large and evil
> > IMO..
> > sw
>
> Well it's May.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18384667/site/newsweek/
> Don friggin' Henley and Sheryl Crow have seen the last of MY money!
> Boy that'll show 'em.
>
> LB

from the linked article - it's not real clear but it seems as if
Sheryl Crow and Don Henly are saying that giving away tunes is to the
detriment of performers. In other words, they're the good guys.
<quote>
He also dismisses the notion that he's giving away tunes to the
detriment of performers-an argument advanced by SoundExchange and the
Recording Artists' Coalition, a lobby group founded by Don Henley and
Sheryl Crow. "My experience was that, yes, when a song is played a lot
on the radio it generates some royalties. But what it really generates
is that people know your work." Which, says Byrne, translates into
album sales.
</quote>

I don't agree with Byrne's argument. Having CD's played on Whole Wheat
or Acoustic Stage has done nothing for my CD sales. I never see anyone
coming from those sites to my CD Baby pages. I would much rather get
royalties from SoundExchange, just like I do from Rhapsody or iTunes.

Ty Ford - I checked out Pandora - thanks for the tip. It seems like a
good thing.

don hindenach

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May 5, 2007, 6:52:29 PM5/5/07
to
On Sat, 5 May 2007 22:07:09 UTC, G'ville Cyclist <goo...@sulger.net> wrote:

> I would much rather get
> royalties from SoundExchange

glad you think you will actually get money from them (/lie)

good luck!

Larry Pattis

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May 5, 2007, 7:17:58 PM5/5/07
to
In article <ZGh26eEmFvyP-pn2-cOZUSW7j4duk@localhost>, don hindenach
<bounc...@driveway.splort> wrote:


I have received money from SoundExchange.

I didn't need luck.

They had my music as showing royalties had accumulated, and I filled
out the appropriate paperwork.

Then I was paid.

I expect to get more, over time.

--
Larry Pattis
email: LP "at" LarryPattis "dot" com
http://www.LarryPattis.com

Rick Ruskin

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May 5, 2007, 7:54:25 PM5/5/07
to
On Sat, 05 May 2007 22:52:29 GMT, "don hindenach"
<bounc...@driveway.splort> wrote:

>On Sat, 5 May 2007 22:07:09 UTC, G'ville Cyclist <goo...@sulger.net> wrote:
>
>> I would much rather get
>> royalties from SoundExchange
>
>glad you think you will actually get money from them (/lie)
>
>good luck!

They pay me like clockwork. It's not luck. It's business and they
take care of it.

Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com

anyt...@contractorcom.com

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May 5, 2007, 7:59:37 PM5/5/07
to
On 5 May 2007 15:07:09 -0700, G'ville Cyclist <goo...@sulger.net>
wrote:

>On May 1, 8:11 am, Larry Brown <larrybro...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Y'all might like to read this.

It points to quite a few places where you can hear stuff by
multimillionaires for nothing.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,2057269,00.html

Pete

don hindenach

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May 5, 2007, 8:05:17 PM5/5/07
to

and when the murder all the internet radio stations, that will stop. enjoy!

Rick Ruskin

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May 5, 2007, 9:18:48 PM5/5/07
to
On Sun, 06 May 2007 00:05:17 GMT, "don hindenach"
<bounc...@driveway.splort> wrote:

>On Sat, 5 May 2007 23:54:25 UTC, Rick Ruskin <lio...@isomedia.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 05 May 2007 22:52:29 GMT, "don hindenach"
>> <bounc...@driveway.splort> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sat, 5 May 2007 22:07:09 UTC, G'ville Cyclist <goo...@sulger.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I would much rather get
>> >> royalties from SoundExchange
>> >
>> >glad you think you will actually get money from them (/lie)
>> >
>> >good luck!
>>
>> They pay me like clockwork. It's not luck. It's business and they
>> take care of it.
>>
>> Rick Ruskin
>> Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
>> http://liondogmusic.com
>
>and when the murder all the internet radio stations, that will stop. enjoy!

A bullshit and uninformed argument. Much the same was said about the
creation of ASCAP. I'm thinking that you don't create music for a
living.

anyt...@contractorcom.com

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May 6, 2007, 9:53:48 PM5/6/07
to
On Sat, 05 May 2007 18:18:48 -0700, Rick Ruskin <lio...@isomedia.com>
wrote:

>
>A bullshit and uninformed argument. Much the same was said about the
>creation of ASCAP. I'm thinking that you don't create music for a
>living.

Try pulling that argument on Mozart.

Pete

Rick Ruskin

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May 6, 2007, 11:36:23 PM5/6/07
to

Meaning what? Mozart would argue against getting paid for public
performances of his compositions? He would have been anti-performing
rights organizations?

anyt...@contractorcom.com

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May 7, 2007, 7:15:40 AM5/7/07
to
On Sun, 06 May 2007 20:36:23 -0700, Rick Ruskin <lio...@isomedia.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 07 May 2007 01:53:48 GMT, anyt...@contractorcom.com wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 05 May 2007 18:18:48 -0700, Rick Ruskin <lio...@isomedia.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>A bullshit and uninformed argument. Much the same was said about the
>>>creation of ASCAP. I'm thinking that you don't create music for a
>>>living.
>>
>>Try pulling that argument on Mozart.
>>
>>Pete
>
>Meaning what? Mozart would argue against getting paid for public
>performances of his compositions? He would have been anti-performing
>rights organizations?
>
>
>Rick Ruskin
>Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
>http://liondogmusic.com

You missed the point, Rick. Mozart wrote every note for money....and
still died broke.

Pete

Message has been deleted

Rick Ruskin

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May 7, 2007, 9:35:24 AM5/7/07
to

1. You might have stated that in the 1st place.
2. I believe Mozart made a decent living for his period but pissed
his earnings away.
3. Mozart's situation has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

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