Horn Glissando

[Adam Burford]

Dear Horn players,

I make arrangements for various groups of wind instruments including
the horn.

I would like to learn more about the horn, and today I would like to
ask you about the glissando.

Is the glissando a quick legato over specific pitches? I assume that
it is not really like the trombone glissando which hits every
frequency in between the start and stop notes.

Is it possible to play a glissando slowly? (I've never heard one --
any orchestra pieces ask for it?)

Is it possible to play a glissando in the lower register?

Thanks,
Adam

[Jim Buchholz]

I have played glissandos with the trombone section in"Lassus Trombone"
piece. For low glissandos below middle C as written for horn I depress the
valves as a trumpet would do; horn notes written up to G note above 1st line
of staff are easy since the horn overtones are a step apart. Glissandos
moving down I have never run into. In the low register I might add the
depressed valves work because the overtones in the lower range are over a
step apart. One problem music writers have with horns is they should ask a
horn player first before it is cut in stone----some glissandos are
near-impossible to play.Everyone I have seen are upward movement to climax
emphasis.

jim buchholz
************************
"Adam Burford" <burfor...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:f3ff76cf.03122...@posting.google.com...

[Adam Burford]

Jim,

I appreciate your input. Thanks.

"Jim Buchholz" wrote

> One problem music writers have with horns is they should ask a
> horn player first before it is cut in stone----some glissandos are
> near-impossible to play.

Can I show you an example of what I'd like to do with the horn, and
you tell me if you think it's doable?

I arranged for wind quintet a bouncy popular piece "Powder and
Patches" composed in 1925 by Walter E. Miles. I wanted the horn
glissandos to be cheerful not dramatic.

Here's an isolated example taken from the middle of the piece:

Horn in F, quarter note = mm 178, 4/4 time.

measure 1:
Eb quarter note, bottom of staff, gliss up to...
Eb quarter note, top of staff.
rest quarter note.
Eb quartet note, top of staff, gliss down to...
measure 2:
Eb quarter note, bottom of staff.

The above passage is done in a decresc. from about mp to p.

Is it possible? Can this passage be done softly and quickly?

Thanks,
Adam

[Jim Buchholz]

Horn players usually communicate using a standard notation code system...
here it is:
High C written F horn note is called c3 (small c), coming down is b2,a2,g2
etc until you get to 3d space written C which is called c2 (small c), below
it is b1,a1 etc until you get to the written c note 2 notes under the 1st
treble staff line called called c1, under c1 are b,a,g,f,e,d,and c which is
the 2nd space of the bass clef----modern horn notation uses the bass clef
writing. Below c are B,A,G, etc down to C (2 ledger lines under the bass
clef. Going down further is B1, etc down to pedal C1.
NOTE how I used small and capital letters.
NOW I believe your question was a glissando from e1 flat to e2 flat (1st
line treble to 4 space treble clef) it can be done using the f side of the
double horn (2nd valve throughout with valve depression half way). On the Bb
side of the double horn the valves would be 1st valve all the way in the
glis BUT the horn would want to play a Eb chord since the overtones sounded
would be Eb,G,Bb,Eb. The f side of the horn has partials closer together to
make a smooth glis at mp or p.
But again glis for horn are usually done in fanfares for emphasis; not sure
why you want horns to do the glis??? You must have a reason.

jim buchholz
p.s. we use the above notation for horn written notes i.e. c1 etc since the
horn has a large range.

"Adam Burford" <burfor...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:f3ff76cf.03122...@posting.google.com...

[Adam Burford]

Thank you for the notation info, Jim! Yes, that's what I meant e1 flat
to e2 flat. 2 ways to do it! I wish I had a horn player handy to hear
both.

But to your question, "Why you want horns to do the glis?"... I'm
making a series of arrangements for wind quintet of early 20th century
popular music. One tune is especially bouncy, almost as if someone is
laughing. It was a challenge to me to put some orchestration skill to
match the quality of the music. So I used the horn to do some solo
glisses which is later joined in with the clarinet trading glisses. It
creates an image in my mind of kids laughing and jumping around. You
know, the bassoon is the serious instrument of the orchestra and the
horn is the clown. :)

Do you know of some reference work I can read to find out exactly what
partials the horn would pass through playing a glis on the f side of
the horn from e1 flat up to e2 flat?

Thanks,
Adam

"Jim Buchholz" <buchholzatacegroup.cc> wrote in message news:<bstdv...@enews2.newsguy.com>...

[Corbasse]

On 1 Jan 2004 08:04:49 -0800, burfor...@msn.com (Adam Burford)
wrote:

>Thank you for the notation info, Jim! Yes, that's what I meant e1 flat

Instead of numbers accents are used as well. It's the standard way to
notate octaves in most of Europe.

>
>Do you know of some reference work I can read to find out exactly what
>partials the horn would pass through playing a glis on the f side of
>the horn from e1 flat up to e2 flat?
>

It's not difficult to find out when you know the harmonic series,
which you should have heard about in theory classes.
the series in C is:
C-c-g-c'-e'-g'-bb'-c''-d''-e''-f#''-g''-ab''-bb''-b''-c'''

Transposed for your gliss you can get:
on 2nd valve F-horn: eb'-gb'-a'*-b'-db''-eb''
on 2+3 F-horn: eb'-gb'*-ab'-bb'-c''-d''*-eb''
on 1 Bb horn: eb'-g'-bb'-db''*-eb''
Notes with an * are appoximations of out of tune harmonics

The best thing to do I think is if you notate more or less what effect
you want and let the Horn player figure out the details ;)

Michiel van der Linden,
Bruges, Belgium