doubling on horn and trumpet
Jerry Houston
(Kopprasch), continued on valve trombone (Vizzutti), and finished on cornet
(more Vizzutti). In my experience, one embouchure has not interfered with
any other, but if you pick up a second instrument and it causes you to
ignore the first, then THAT will certainly affect your performance on the
first.
I play horn in a band and an orchestra, and flugelhorn and cornet in another
band. I practice both horn and cornet (at least) every day. I practice
valve trombone several times a week (but don't play that in any ensembles).
I think the key is to practice both religiously, and not ignore one for the
other.
I'm also convinced that I have a fatter low register on trumpet because of
my horn playing, and that high notes on the horn come a lot easier because
of my trumpet playing. The trombone is just plain therapeutic and relaxing;
it's almost like a lip massage.
Your mileage may vary, of course, but too many people have done too well at
doubling for me to believe that it can't work. It just needs to be done
right.
Best of luck to ya,
Jerry in Seattle
Sian Smith <q992...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:7ji2ei$4p2$1...@usenet.usq.edu.au...
<snip>
> Should I do it? What precautions should I take/things should I avoid?
> basically any information on this would be appreciated before I start
> (probably next term)
Sian Smith
(trumpet) at university. I took up horn briefly a couple of years ago (well,
for about 6 months) and liked it, but was advised by a former teacher to put
it down as it would ruin my trumpet chops. I've since heard a lot of
opinions on this from TPIN (the trumpet list) and I've been asked to take it
up for our uni's brass ensemble, which has currently got 6 trumpets, 3
horns, 3 troms, a tuba. My teacher has tentatively approved it...I was
wondering what kind of advice/opinions I could get from a horn list, anyway.
Should I do it? What precautions should I take/things should I avoid?
basically any information on this would be appreciated before I start
(probably next term)
Sian Smith
1st year trumpet, USQ, Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia
VIKTELL
school. It did me no harm, and I think helped me become better at each
instrument. My suggestion is to give it a try, and if you feel you're losing
your chops for trumpet, you can always stop the horn playing.
Karen
P.S. I went to solo festival on horn, trumpet, and oboe on one day, and did
very well in all three. It gives you a greater appreciation for the difference
in music that's played throughout the ensemble.
Yngve Skråmm
I started playing french horn at the tender age of 29 after a almost a
lifetime of playing trumpet. I continue to play some trumpet/flugelhorn
in the jazz/pop genre, but mostly french horn on "serious" things. I can
subscribe to what the other's have said, that you get a fuller sound in
the bottom register on your trumpet. On the only occation that I have
performed "in public" as a soloist on trumpet after I started playing
french horn, I was told that it was probably the best thay've heard me
play when it comes to tone, sound and expressivness. On the other hand,
as a trumpeter you have a h%&%&% of an advantage when it comes to the
upper register on the horn. I can play as high as ever needed (and
higher) without getting especially tired. Lots of grunting down in the
lower register, however...
Hope this helps,
Yngve
ShawnFen
buy a mellophone for marching band since they are played by the hornists, but
use a trumpet mouthpiece. Taking up horn hasnt hurt my sax playing any,
Shawn
Jim Buchholz
and valve trombone and Fluegelhorn. When called upon also oboe. I find
it easier to make the change from trombone to horn, small mouthpiece
trumpet affected my oboe playing some, horn did not affect trumpet.
Believe the muscle groups between horn and trumpet are not as great as
turmpet(horn) and Oboe.
Jim Buchholz
A-Ron Park
question is what's your level in those instruments? I think it's amatuer,
and so for your own pleasure, but belive, some good musician may say
something...
cheers ;-)
-aron-
Simone Yeung
>
Can anybody tell me whether the embouchure of horn affects flute's
embouchure?
Jerry Houston
and she said that the flute embouchure is very much like a trumpet
embouchure, and that no harm could come from mixing them.
Since no harm comes from mixing horn/trumpet (in my experience - I play both
every day), that would imply that you should probably go for it.
I also correspond regularly with a friend in the trumpet news group who
doubles on flute, to the point of playing both on nearly every gig he plays.
Wanting something quiet to play late at night in the apartment, I bought a
flute from someone on eBay, but have yet to make a sound with it (other than
whhssssshhhhh). I think something may be wrong with it! <g>
Simone Yeung <ywfa...@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:37647C07...@netvigator.com...
<snip>
BobbyCorno
>flute from someone on eBay, but have yet to make a sound with it (other than
>whhssssshhhhh). I think something may be wrong with it!
...must be the loose nut on the headjoint.
Scott "BobbyCorno" Peterson
Jerry Houston
how it goes. Thanks!
Jerry in Seattle
BobbyCorno <bobby...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990617205857...@ng-ba1.aol.com...
Brassmom
>Can anybody tell me whether the embouchure of horn affects flute's
>embouchure?
>
I have found horn and flute to be fairly compatable. There is ALWAYS an effect
when doubling on ANY instrument, however.
Bras...@aol.com
Southern New Jersey
Amanda Graves
The reason it is not a problem for horn players to play mellophone and horn
is mostly due to the fact that many of us use horn mouthpieces. In fact, in
my area I only know of about 3 mellophone players that use trumpet
mouthpieces; two are actually trumpet players the other, like you, plays
sax.
ShawnFen <shaw...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990610164116...@ng-fy1.aol.com...
CARVER
> Shawn,
> The reason it is not a problem for horn players to play mellophone and horn
> is mostly due to the fact that many of us use horn mouthpieces. In fact, in
> my area I only know of about 3 mellophone players that use trumpet
> mouthpieces; two are actually trumpet players the other, like you, plays
> sax.
This most often results in nasty icky out-of-tune-ness, you'll be sharp, but
it's closer to playing the horn than anything else. The embouchre(sp?) is
slightly different since the mouthpiece comes straight out of your face for
that nice "bells-up" look instead of the slight down angle you get on a horn in
your lap. But in my opinion, it's still easier to switch from mellophone to
horn this way, even when playing both every day. I guess I'm just lazy, but I
find it rather difficult to be constantly switching mouthpieces.
You may have to buy a mouthpiece adaptor for the horn mp to fit in the
mellophone. Contact the mellophone's manufacturer for the size and whereabouts
of the adaptor you'll need.
brian
John Chapple
>
> In article <376f2...@news.tislink.com>, "Amanda Graves" <4eve...@cblink.com> writes:
> > Shawn,
> > The reason it is not a problem for horn players to play mellophone and horn
[snip]
>
> You may have to buy a mouthpiece adaptor for the horn mp to fit in the
> mellophone. Contact the mellophone's manufacturer for the size and whereabouts
> of the adaptor you'll need.
Giardinelli ( www.giardinelli.com ) advertises it can make a mouthpiece
body to fit the mellophone with a horn cup and rim. They also make
separate rims and bodies (for the horn only), which may make switching a
little easier. Cups with custom shanks are advertised at the site as
being available.
Disclaimer: I have no connection whatsoever to Giardinelli.
Cheers
John
>
> brian
--
Please remove the text between and including the asterisks in my email
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Ken Moore
<jchapple@easy*NOSPAM*net.ca> writes
>Giardinelli ( www.giardinelli.com ) advertises it can make a mouthpiece
>body to fit the mellophone with a horn cup and rim. They also make
>separate rims and bodies (for the horn only), which may make switching a
>little easier. Cups with custom shanks are advertised at the site as
>being available.
I was brought up to consider mouthpiece switching a dangerous procedure,
but have come to the conclusion that a change of body is less of an
upset than a change of rim. What do other people think? If this is
true then the best solution might be to use a horn mouthpiece with a
screw-on rim and get a real mellophone body with the same screw thread.
The volume, throat and backbore could then be chosen in such a way as to
make the mellophone play in tune.
--
Ken Moore
k...@hpsl.demon.co.uk
Web site: http://www.hpsl.demon.co.uk/
CARVER
Sounds good. The next trick is to get a bunch of high school/college students
to keep track of all the moving parts. Either that, or find/fund a way to keep
lots of extra rims around.
brian
Ken Moore
>The next trick is to get a bunch of high school/college students
>to keep track of all the moving parts. Either that, or find/fund a way to keep
>lots of extra rims around.
Rim with player (in wallet?), mouthpiece body with instrument.
Tracy Tong
>The next trick is to get a bunch of high school/college students
>to keep track of all the moving parts. Either that, or find/fund a way to
keep
>lots of extra rims around.
Rim with player (in wallet?), mouthpiece body with instrument.
</snip>
I don't know about adults, but for high schoolers, anything that can get
lost, will get lost. Er, I mean, misplaced. Stuff seems to grow legs and
walk off, it seems.
- Tracy
http://horns.arecool.net
Dan Banks
>In article <7kpes2$j42$1...@bigdog.easynet.ca>, John Chapple
>I was brought up to consider mouthpiece switching a dangerous procedure,
>but have come to the conclusion that a change of body is less of an
>upset than a change of rim. What do other people think? If this is
The embouchure isn't the only consideration here, or at least it shouldn't be.
I do think that the sound in general from mellophones is better when a real
French horn mouthpiece is used with an adapter. I've never heard one played
with a horn mouthpiece on a trumpet shank, however. Until recently, I used
a different horn mouthpiece for concert playing than I did for marching.
My concert mouthpiece was chosen for all of the reasons one would choose a
mouthpiece for playing French Horn...... it so happens that it has a rather
thin rim and is unsuitable for marching. Mainly this is because with the
constant pressure and intermittant banging against my face, I needed a thicker
rim. The thicker rim also helped my endurance. Additionally I chose a bigger
mouthpiece (in almost all aspects) because I found that the range
requirements were never as extreme and I could put out a better sound at field
volume levels. Finally, my concert mouthpiece is unlaquered brass, while
we are required to march with all siver. During basketball/hockey season, I
switch back to using my concert mouthpiece in the mellophone.
Intonation is a significant problem. One thing that's important is to find an
adapter that doens't significantly alter the length of the horn.
Unfortunately, our adapters were added as a custom feature at the factory and
are a permanent fixture on the horn. I would rather have seen a custom built
leadpipe, but I had no say in the matter. The "standard" mouthpieces we are
issued are also a big problem. Most of our mellophone players are not horn
players, so they don't really know about mouthpiece stuff. Maybe 70% use the
standard mouthpiece. I can play our mellophones in tune using any mouthpiece
I've tried, but it takes a lot more work with some mouthpieces than others.
It also takes a while to learn by habit which notes to lip up or down.
Granted, if I forget and play a note out of tune, I will recognize this
immediately and correct it, but I would rather have not made a bad sound in
the first place. It's also important to recognize that not all players,
especially high school and beginners, are able to do this. I don't how which
aspects of a mouthpiece alter the intonation, but I do know that there IS a
difference. Alternate fingerings are one option, but generally I don't
like to use them. Typically I've found that with a little instruction and
work with a tuner, my fellow horn players do better with the standard
fingerings. Lastly, I am a firm believer in the use of the first and third
valve slides. I know this might seem obvious to a lot of people here, but in
my experience, way to many mellophone players overlook this tool.
Basically what I am saying here is that I believe you should use whichever
mouthpiece is best for the job. I think in many cases, using the wrong
mouthpiece will bring worse consequences than changing mouthpieces from one
instrument to another. It's also important to recognize that people's lips
are as individual as they are, and one mouthpiece will not fit everyone.
Recently, I found a mouthpiece that actually seems to have improved my
playing-while-marching that also shows promise as a concert mouthpiece. It
will take several months of playing on it before I'm "used" to it and can make
a good decision, though.
Dan Banks
Jerry Houston
isn't suitable for a mellophone at all. The shank is too narrow, the cup
too deep, and its bore and taper are designed for an instrument with twice
the tubing length. In order to even play a mellophone with a horn
mouthpiece, you need to patch it together with an adapter that brings the
mellophone receiver down to the shank size of a horn mouthpiece, and in the
process destroys the smooth transition from backbore to leadpipe.
And a trumpet mouthpiece, although the shank is the same diameter, is
designed for a mezzo-soprano (or higher) instrument, not an alto. A typical
trumpet mouthpiece cup is both too narrow and too shallow to be of much use
in a mellophone, even though it will fit in (and usually bottoms-out).
Using either of these on an alto horn detracts from its characteristic sound
and playability. The trumpet mouthpiece is too shallow and brassy, not to
mention nearly useless in the lower register. The horn mouthpiece is too
dark and somber, usually too restricted, and its typical deep V-shaped cup
doesn't support the alto horn's upper register very well.
I play an upright bell Austrian alto horn that was made in the late
nineteenth century (according to the technician who rebuilt its valves), and
I play it with a Denis Wick 3 "tenor horn" mouthpiece. (They call this a
"tenor horn" in the UK where Denis Wick products are made, but it's what we
think of as an "alto horn" here in the US.) In any British catalogs or
price lists, you'll want to look for tenor horn mouthpieces.
The DW mouthpiece is perfectly suited to the instrument, and I recommend it
highly for anyone who is contemplating playing a mellophone or other type of
alto horn. It's comfortable, fits right, sounds great, and doesn't cost all
that much. If I remember right, the DW 3 that I play is the middle one of
three that are available, and to me it seemed the best compromise for
all-around playing.
You're far better off keeping french horn mouthpieces in french horns,
trumpet mouthpieces in trumpets, and use a real alto horn mouthpiece for any
alto horn, including the mellophone.
By the way, switching from one rim to another isn't nearly as much of a
problem as some folks imagine it is (usually those who haven't given it a
try). I play both trumpet and horn nearly every day, and take a trumpet
lesson and a horn lesson every week. I play alto horn and valve trombone a
little less frequently. I sincerely believe that playing each one enhances
my abilities on all the others.
Regards,
Jerry in Seattle
Dan Banks <nos...@osu.edu> wrote in message
news:nospam+.54...@osu.edu...
> In article <HaQjuRAs...@hpsl.demon.co.uk> Ken Moore
<k...@hpsl.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
> >In article <7kpes2$j42$1...@bigdog.easynet.ca>, John Chapple
>
> >I was brought up to consider mouthpiece switching a dangerous procedure,
> >but have come to the conclusion that a change of body is less of an
> >upset than a change of rim. What do other people think? If this is
>
> The embouchure isn't the only consideration here, or at least it shouldn't
be.
> I do think that the sound in general from mellophones is better when a
real
> French horn mouthpiece is used with an adapter...
J.L Yate
writes
>I've been waiting for someone to point out that a horn mouthpiece really
>isn't suitable for a mellophone at all. The shank is too narrow, the cup
>too deep, and its bore and taper are designed for an instrument with twice
>the tubing length. In order to even play a mellophone with a horn
>mouthpiece, you need to patch it together with an adapter that brings the
>mellophone receiver down to the shank size of a horn mouthpiece, and in the
>process destroys the smooth transition from backbore to leadpipe.
>You're far better off keeping french horn mouthpieces in french horns,
>trumpet mouthpieces in trumpets, and use a real alto horn mouthpiece for any
>alto horn, including the mellophone.
for it.
>By the way, switching from one rim to another isn't nearly as much of a
>problem as some folks imagine it is (usually those who haven't given it a
>try). I play both trumpet and horn nearly every day, and take a trumpet
>lesson and a horn lesson every week. I play alto horn and valve trombone a
>little less frequently. I sincerely believe that playing each one enhances
>my abilities on all the others.
For horn and cornet playing, regularly playing lower pitched and larger
mouthpieced instruments like Tenor (i.e. Alto) horns seems to encourage
my embouchure blood circulation and endurance in a way that does does
not happen if only the smaller instruments are played. This really does
work. What really doesn't work all that well however, is finding the
time to play (and especially to practise) at both ends of the spectrum!
I am sure this is the main reason why the advice given to young players
not to play multiple brass instruments is essentially sound. The other
reason is literally sound - perhaps when learning we need to be
stuck at least for a time with just the one instrument, in order to
build an authentic idea of the sound we expect to make when playing.
--
J.L Yate