Which wrap is best?
Gary Suits
Matthew Williams wrote:
>
> I am considering which model horn to buy and I would like some
> feedback on which horn wrap everyone likes; Kruspe, Geyer, or Descant.
> I am looking for a horn that has a little resistance as possible and a
> large sound. So which kind does everyone prefer?
>
> Matt Williams
> Enloe High School
> Raleigh, NC
Matt,
An interesting question.
I played a Conn 8D for about fifteen years, and really liked the horn i
had. It is a Kruspe wrap, that is, the thumb valve is at the mouthpiece
end of the valve machine. This has been the most popular horn design in
America, as evidenced by the number of 8Ds out there. The only problem
with it is the little piece of tubing that connects the F and Bb side of
the horn. It is about two inches long, and makes a tight u-turn. Tests
have proven that this little tube creates a lot of unwanted turbulence in
the airstream, making moving from one side to the other difficult.
To combat this, two horn makers designed horns with the thumbvalve ot the
other end of the machine, making all of the airways as straight as
possible. Charles Geyer, a horn builder in Chicago, began building these
horns in the 30's and 40's (I think). Since his horns were handmade,
there aren't too many around, and his horns are very much sought after by
professionals. Conn is now making an exact copy of his design, the 10D. I
have one, and I just love it. It is a very open horn, less resistive that
the 8D. Plus, it is made of yellow brass, which I believe is capable of a
more varied color palette.
Schmidt is the other builder of horns with the change valve at the
opposite end. The difference is that a Geyer wrap looks like this -OOOo-,
whereas the Schmidt wrap looks like this ^OOOo^. Well, kinda, but I think
you get the idea. I don't think there is any real difference. Yamaha is
making copies of the Schmidt wrap.
As for descant horns, you don't need one yet. These horns are pitched in
Bb/F alto, the F side being an octave higher than a standard double. They
are for all that high baroque music that is very taxing on the face.
Until you get a job that pays well enough to own one, don't.
Stick with the basics. I would try the 8D or the 10D. Stay away from
Holton. They are way overpriced for what they are - they use Farkas,
Tuckwell, and Merker as marketing tools, and I hate that...
Gary Suits
MM, Northwestern University
Parris Island Marine Band
Matthew Williams
Helen Read
nate...@mindspring.com (Matthew Williams) writes:
>
>I am considering which model horn to buy and I would like some
>feedback on which horn wrap everyone likes; Kruspe, Geyer, or
>Descant. I am looking for a horn that has a little resistance as
>possible and a large sound. So which kind does everyone prefer?
>
Little resistance, large sound...ah, my kind of player! I would go
for something like a Conn 8D, which, methinks, is a Kruspe, though
no doubt someone will correct me if I have that confused.
Whatever you get, though, make sure you try out several horns to
find one that plays the way you want. Horns vary a *lot*, even
within the same model.
--
Helen Read
Horn ensemble is likely to be renamed "The Moraire Horns"--which
gives you an idea of how we play.
http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~read/
Eddie Krimm
Matthew Williams <nate...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<560ic7$u...@camel4.mindspring.com>...
> I am considering which model horn to buy and I would like some
> feedback on which horn wrap everyone likes; Kruspe, Geyer, or Descant.
> I am looking for a horn that has a little resistance as possible and a
> large sound. So which kind does everyone prefer?
>
Bob Booker
I'm a horn player with the Valdosta Symphony Orchestra here in GA. I
rescently bought the new Yamaha 667V. It came out last Jan. It is a Geyer
wrap horn. The theory behind it is simple. The less sharp turns in the
brass, the less resistance. It is a small-bore horn with a big sound. I
also play on a Lawson mouthpiece which compliments any good horn!! Yamaha
came out with a line of Geyer 667 horns. The V model is the custom, the
highest quality horn Yamaha makes. I have long disliked the Yamaha horn
because of the bad middle G and F. There was always problems with the
middle F-side register as well. They seemed to have fixed these problems
with this new horn. It is pretty steep, 6,000 in the catalog, "Woodwind
Brasswind" Higher in music stores. I got mine for 4,000. It you are
interested, give me some freedback. They will send it to you to try out.
I can make some calls for you as well to get that price down. I would not
consider this Horn if you are not a serious-minded player. They make a
667VS, the difference being the VS has a screw bell. Another 300-500
bucks.
This horn is hand-hammered, and hand-worked to the very valves. If you
dent this bell badly, it's ruined. Time for a new bell!! The only better
horn that I have found is the Lawson "Classic." Lawson discontinued all
their lines except from two. One being the Classic. The year and a half
waiting period and the price are the reasons I don't have one now, added to
the intonation perfection of the horn. We play sharp. Lawson horns do
not bend pitch well. They are tuned to A-440, and that is where they stay.
Awesome horn though!
If you are, I would not make the mistake of buying a Holton Horn. They
are like twinkies. They are good to the taste and satisfy a craving, but
they are mass-produced with no quality, and are no good for you. The best
they make is the Tuckwell Horn, and they must pay him a fortune. He
changed a good bit of their Horn to suit him. This should tell you
something more about their horn. If you are only considering college horn
playing, a holton, around 3,000 would do fine. For Symphony and Solo work
however, you need a professionally made top quality horn. Holton cannot
give you that. Trust me, Horn playing is my living!!!
You do not want a Descant horn however. Descant horns have the bflat alto
"crook." It is used for high-horn playing. Extremely high horn. I have
seen Mozart music where it would have been useful, but I did well with
the horn I had. I just screwed on my 665 rim. You might think about a
Lawson mouthpiece to go with your new horn. They will change your
sound!!!!
Charlie Turner
>I rescently bought the new Yamaha 667V. It came out last Jan. It is a Geyer
>wrap horn. The theory behind it is simple. The less sharp turns in the
>brass, the less resistance.
Also, fewer sharp turns makes the horn simpler to manufacture by hand. This,
I've heard, was part of the thinking that lead to the Knopf and later Geyer
design, ie. Geyer's was a small hand made horn shop.
In recent years E. Schmid, Karl Hill, Steve Lewis, and Berg have all refined this
Geyer design in various ways, as no doubt has Yahama also in this custom 667V.
One of the improvements has something to do with the F/Bb key not causing
the air stream to reverse (however, I'm not sure I understand what that means).
>If you are only considering college horn
>playing, a holton, around 3,000 would do fine. For Symphony and Solo work
>however, you need a professionally made top quality horn.
A new Holton Farkas model is often available for $2000-ish, at least from the
big mail order music stores like the Brasswind or Giardinelli's. However, I expect
the large retail stores like Wichita Band Instruments or Osmun music are very
competitive, price wise, too. A good condition used Holton can be an excellent
value for the price conscious.