When to use Bb side?
Nicholas G Williams
This question has probably been asked a million times but here goes:
When is it apropriate to use the Bb side of the horn rather than the F?
Which notes are better in tune on the Bb side? I've heard that anything
past 2nd line g should be played on the Bb side. Is this true?
Brian Dorn
As a general rule, yes. G sharp and above are played on the Bb side.
However, sometimes the Bb side is used to play notes when the key combinations
are easier than going back and forth between the 2. Also the Bb side is used
for extremely low notes that are not possible to play on the F side. It takes
some experimentation what works best for you, but the double horn was an
invention that I'll never give up.
Hope this helps.
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Chris Stratton
Nicholas G Williams wrote:
>
> This question has probably been asked a million times but here goes:
> When is it apropriate to use the Bb side of the horn rather than the F?
> Which notes are better in tune on the Bb side? I've heard that anything
> past 2nd line g should be played on the Bb side. Is this true?
Put simply, use the Bb side wherever it works better. This varies
by situation, player, and horn.
Some typical uses: from G#-C in staff as dependent on context,
C# and above usually. F-(down)-Db below staff, F-Db/C an octave below
that (this second set of notes is essentially non-existent on the F
side).
Prime situation when I avoid the Bb horn - when playing an Eb horn part
where I find I can manage it all on the first valve F side. Sometimes
its a toss up - the quicker response of the Bb in a fast arpeggio at the
cost of having to change fingerings. In other cases, (Strauss 1
opening, K495 rondo) the Bb side substantially improves the fingering of
an Eb horn passage not limited to natural-horn pitches [ie, requiring
either valves or hand manipulation].
About the only time anyone else should criticize your choice is if you
can't fix the tuning, or if you are playing 2nd/4th and using the Bb
side (expect in the low range) while your 1st/3rd is still on the F.
Not to say you can't get away with this, but it works better the other
way around or both on the same side.
of course this is my extremely unexpert opinion
Chris
PS - on bad days when suffering extreme pitch confusion, I have
sometimes done a quick test by switching sides while holding the note to
make sure I'm actually playing the right note and the other hornist is
wrong, not me. Obviously, if switching to the other side's fingering
changes the note, then I'm at fault.
-----------
Christopher C. Stratton,
http://www.mit.edu/people/stratton/stratton.html
cstr...@bbn.com (work) stra...@mit.edu (personal & music)
344 Boston Ave #2 BBN Technologies
18/189A
Medford, MA 02155 733 Concord Ave
(781)393-0034 Cambridge, MA 01238
(617)873-4773
Katie White
Yes this is true. Notes from middle line G# are easier to pitch when using
the Bb side of the horn. Also there are some very low notes which cannot be
played on the F side and likewise some wihich cannot be played on the Bb
side.
Later,
Katie.
Nicholas G Williams <ng...@Ra.MsState.Edu> wrote in article
<Pine.SOL.3.96.971013...@Ra.MsState.Edu>...
Helen Read
ng...@Ra.MsState.Edu (Nicholas G Williams) writes:
>
>This question has probably been asked a million times but here
>goes: When is it apropriate to use the Bb side of the horn rather
>than the F? Which notes are better in tune on the Bb side? I've
>heard that anything past 2nd line g should be played on the Bb
>side. Is this true?
There are different schools of thought on this, but here is mine.
The Bb fingerings should be used only for the high range, which I
consider to be from treble clef 3rd space written C# on up, and that
zone in the low range not playable on the F horn, from written F
natural (octave and a fifth below written middle C) down to the C#
just above the fundamental C (the fundamental C itself can and
should be played on the F horn).
The reason for this choice of fingerings is that the F horn produces
a fuller, darker, more horn-like sound throughout the mid and low
ranges, but above the third space C the harmonics start to become
close enough together to cause the notes to be a bit unstable (and
using the Bb side in this range does not cause the sound to suffer,
the way it does in the mid and low range.)
I find it best to stick to these fingerings *all the time*, with
only very rare exceptions. This way I never have to think about how
I will finger a note, so that I don't make fingering errors due to
confusion/indecision over which fingering to use. I don't even think
of it as "switching" from one side to another--the thumb valve is
just a valve like any other, and is included in some fingerings but
not others. Another benefit of using the F/Bb sides consistently
rather than sometimes one way and sometimes another is that it makes
for a more consistent sound quality.
--
Helen Read
K C Moore
In article <344281...@mit.edu> stra...@mit.edu "Chris Stratton" writes:
> Nicholas G Williams wrote:
> >
> > This question has probably been asked a million times but here goes:
> > When is it apropriate to use the Bb side of the horn rather than the F?
> > Which notes are better in tune on the Bb side? I've heard that anything
> > past 2nd line g should be played on the Bb side. Is this true?
>
> Put simply, use the Bb side wherever it works better. This varies
> by situation, player, and horn.
^^^^
For a variety of reasons, I rested my ancient (mosly c. 1935 but with a
new bell in 1972) Alex 103 from 1972 to 1996. Now that I have gone
back to it, I realise what a fine instrument it is, despite its rather
worn valves. In particular, the inherent sound varies very little from
F to Bb, so that one can choose one's ("his" if you speak US English :-)
fingering on other criteria.
One circumstance in which I am inclined to stick with the F horn rather
higher than otherwise is in chromatic parts for E horn, where the
fingering can be quite tricky on the Bb. A particular example is the
"fanfare" passage at the end of Dvorak 9, movement 4
(written [1/8] C E D C E D C E | D C E D C E D C D | etc) where I just
hold the second valve down and move to Bb for the last two note).
--
Ken Moore
k...@hpsl.demon.co.uk
Stephen Botting
Nicholas G Williams <ng...@Ra.MsState.Edu> wrote in article
<Pine.SOL.3.96.971013...@Ra.MsState.Edu>...
> This question has probably been asked a million times but here goes:
> When is it apropriate to use the Bb side of the horn rather than the F?
> Which notes are better in tune on the Bb side? I've heard that anything
> past 2nd line g should be played on the Bb side. Is this true?
>
I've only got a Bb horn so I have no choice.
Jeroen FF Heijmans
On 17 Oct 1997 07:38:57 GMT, "Stephen Botting" <sbot...@tpgi.com.au>
wrote:
Even better I play an Eb horn :)
But I've had some lessons at the F/Bb horn. From G1 (2nd line G) and
higher they recommended the Bb side.
Grtz,
Jeroen "FF" Heijmans
Helen Read
scat...@sable.ox.ac.uk (Paul Ryder) writes:
>
>With a double horn the longer straight section of tubing inherent
>in the F slide means that the F slide doesn't play as well or sound
>as good as the B flat slide...
>
I couldn't disagree more. To me the F horn produces a much richer,
darker, fuller, more horn-like sound than the Bb. In the mid and low
ranges, the Bb sounds more like a baritone than a horn.
>I use the B flat slide almost exclusively - [...]
>
>Out of lots of replies to this question I don't think anyone has
>said the same as me (am I right?) which is strange because the
>overwhelming majority of hornists I know favour the B flat slide
>almost exclusively.
>
I only know a couple of people who play mostly on the Bb, and these
are people who do so because they think it is easier--not because
they think it sounds better.
Maybe this is a cultural thing? (I notice you are posting from the
UK.)
--
Helen Read
Paul Ryder
In article <63338t$m...@swen.emba.uvm.edu>,
Helen Read <re...@math.uvm.edu> wrote:
>>With a double horn the longer straight section of tubing inherent
>>in the F slide means that the F slide doesn't play as well or sound
>>as good as the B flat slide...
>>
>I couldn't disagree more. To me the F horn produces a much richer,
>darker, fuller, more horn-like sound than the Bb. In the mid and low
>ranges, the Bb sounds more like a baritone than a horn.
I always strive to produce the best sound I can when I play and regularly
experiment playing notes in different ways. For me with my horn the B flat
slide gives the better sound even in the low register. Different playing
situations need different tone qualities but I would hardly ever choose
the F slide tone. I warm up partly on the F slide in that register so it's
not that I haven't developed that register on the F horn or anything. I
guess my "natural" tone quality is fairly dark (for england) so playing on
the B flat slide in the low register sounds like a horn whereas the F
slide sounds too much the other way - like a euphonium!
The B flat slide isn't any easier although you can get louder before the
sound breaks - surely this is desirable?!?! The sound has more "life" when
playing quietly too.
>Maybe this is a cultural thing? (I notice you are posting from the
>UK.)
I think it probably is! :)
--
Paul Ryder
Physicist and French Hornist
Chris Stratton
Paul Ryder wrote:
> For me with my horn the B flat slide
> the F slide
Please, it's "SIDE" not "SLIDE". Otherwise people might get the idea
we are talking about the Bb/F trombone. Nearly half the horns out there
don't even have a Bb side independent tuning crook to call a slide.
Robert Booker
I find, here in the US that teachers like Philip Farkas, stress the F Side
of the horn. I use this side in all ranges if appropriate. Farkas
describes the F side as "velvety." Breaking Tone inherent to the F side is
usually a players problem in the form of air control and aperture control.
Farkas again refers to the "pucker" approach of the embouchure. In the low
range, the F-horn is a must, when the harmonics are in tune. The Bflat side
is built more like the baritone, and thus sounds like one in that range.
Most horn parts for "horn in F," in the classical and romantic literature,
were designed for the sound and tone on the F horn anyway. When the
composer wanted the tambre of the Bflat, composers wrote for horn in Bflat.
Well, enough for now. . .
Robert Booker
VSU
Chris Stratton
Robert Booker wrote:
> Most horn parts for "horn in F," in the classical and romantic literature,
> were designed for the sound and tone on the F horn anyway. When the
> composer wanted the tambre of the Bflat, composers wrote for horn in Bflat.
In the vast majority of cases though they wrote for horn in Bb BASSO.
Our Bb ALTO horn is a an octave higher... the only plausable similarity
would be a slight correspondence in the tuning of overtones.
Most of the time a modern hornist plays an instrument shorter than the
E, Eb, D, C or Bb basso horn called for. But occasionally it works out
the other way... do we play Beethoven 7 (A alto) or some of the high
Mozart symphonies or Verdi operas and stuff on the Bb side exclusively?
Chris
MCFLY 335
From G and up and from low F and down