Glorious Things of Thee Are Spoken
Judith Higbee
Thank you for sharing your scholarship re: Ching-A-Ring-Chaw. Like Wm.
Warfield, I hadn't a clue about the song's origins. I did want to make a
note that it was the Nazis who took over "Glorious Things of Thee Are
Spoken" and changed the words. The tune is by Haydn (1732-1809) based on a
Croatian folk tune and the text (Gloious things....) is by hymn writer John
Newton (1725-1807.) Nonetheless, as a church musican I have been careful in
selecting this hymn especially in certain congregations because of the
memories of its wartime use.
Best wishes,
Judith Higbee
Church of the Saviour (UM)
2537 Lee Road
Cleveland Heights, OH 44118
216/321-8880
AJ.H...@worldnet.att.net
Terry Cordery.
"Glorious things". The tune is called "Abbot's Leigh" and is by C.V. Taylor.
It is number 172 in Hymns Ancient and Modern New Standard or number 257 in
Ancient and Modern Revised.
Try it out. I find it a satisfying sing and it does not have the Nazi
overtones of the Haydn version.
Best wishes.
Terry Cordery.
Music teacher and bass songman at Selby Abbey, Yorkshire. UK.
BAC...@aol.com
Te...@tcordery.freeserve.co.uk writes:
<< There is another tune, and in my opinion a better one, for the text of
"Glorious things". The tune is called "Abbot's Leigh" and is by C.V. Taylor.
It is number 172 in Hymns Ancient and Modern New Standard or number 257 in
Ancient and Modern Revised. Try it out. I find it a satisfying sing and it
does not have the Nazi overtones of the Haydn version. >>
Two points. Perhaps fifty-five years after the event we can stop suggesting
this association to a tune that has a previous (unbesmirched) history of a
few hundred. And, as Luther said (in an understandably different context,
but I think still fitting here), "The devil shouldn't have all the good
tunes." I believe we should reclaim music that "may" have negative
associations by educating people, not give in to their surface connections,
in which case those that supplanted the tunes have won, and the rest of us
have lost. After all, when does it end? Because of the negative portrayal
of American Indians do we stop playing the "William Tell Overture?" Ditto
for Asians with the "Flight of the Bumblebee?" (The Green Hornet, for you
youngsters.) Perhaps the ASPCA will question the taste of "You Ain't Nothing
But a Hound Dog." The list could go on and on.
So much for my diatribe.
Alexander Ruggieri
Pasadena Classical Singers
bac...@aol.com
Linda J
BAC...@aol.com wrote in message <46.370852...@aol.com>...
Debbie Cusick
Well, to be honest, I love the Haydn tune. I think it is a "glorious"
piece of music, and I feel a real lump in my throat when I sing
"Glorious things of thee are Spoken" to that tune. I was born well
after the war. I have no personal bad experiences with that music, and
I don't see why I should!
Abbott's Leigh may "work" but the hymn just does not have the same
inpact for me when that tune is used instead.
--
Debbie Cusick
"When I get a little money I buy books: and if any is left over
I buy food and clothes. " - Erasmus
Terry Cordery. wrote in message
<000201bf9bf2$6be00e60$b215883e@p4q2x0>...
>There is another tune, and in my opinion a better one, for the text
of
>"Glorious things". The tune is called "Abbot's Leigh"
Geoff Wysham
>Te...@tcordery.freeserve.co.uk writes:
>
> It is number 172 in Hymns Ancient and Modern New Standard or number 257 in
>does not have the Nazi overtones of the Haydn version. >>
>
>this association to a tune that has a previous (unbesmirched) history of a
>few hundred. And, as Luther said (in an understandably different context,
>but I think still fitting here), "The devil shouldn't have all the good
>tunes." I believe we should reclaim music that "may" have negative
>associations by educating people, not give in to their surface connections,
>in which case those that supplanted the tunes have won, and the rest of us
>have lost. After all, when does it end? Because of the negative portrayal
>of American Indians do we stop playing the "William Tell Overture?" Ditto
>for Asians with the "Flight of the Bumblebee?" (The Green Hornet, for you
>youngsters.) Perhaps the ASPCA will question the taste of "You Ain't Nothing
>But a Hound Dog." The list could go on and on.
>
>So much for my diatribe.
>
>Alexander Ruggieri
>Pasadena Classical Singers
>bac...@aol.com
Hear, Hear! I whole heartedly agree. We must find a way to go on, to
even reclaim good music when it takes on negative connotations. I, in
ignorance of the original intent behind Ching a Ring Chaw, always
assumed (I know what assuming means, though!) the lyrics referred to
heaven, as so many spirituals do. How I enjoyed that piece in my
ignorance.
I am reminded of one of my 3rd grade music students, whose
mother (a Jehovah's Witness) didn't want her to play Hot Cross Buns
on the recorder because of the religious connections Did her daughter
have a clue about the religious connections?!? Not unless or until
her mother pointed that out to her, you can be sure.
I do not mean to imply that we should forget or forgive the
sins of the past, but if there is a way to make something positive
out of music that has a negative connotation, then I am all for that.
Maureen Wysham
mailto:gwy...@us.hsanet.net
Choral...@aol.com
writes:
<< I believe we should reclaim music that "may" have negative
associations by educating people, not give in to their surface connections,
in which case those that supplanted the tunes have won, and the rest of us
have lost. After all, when does it end? >>
I take vigorous exception to these suggestions because, in my view, they fail
to reflect an understanding of the horrors that the World War II generation
-- the "greatest generation" -- has experienced and the scars that will
remain, like a number branded on an arm, until the last survivor has died.
My friend and neighbor was a member of the Dutch Resistance -- she was a
15-year-old trained to sabotage the telegrams of the Gestapo who were
quartered in her own home for 4 and 1/2 years. Today she is a very active
elder and choir member in the Presbyterian Church. Before writing my
previous message, I asked her again how she felt about the hymn.
She replied by recounting how the Sturmbannfurher (who was their permanent
"house guest") would, after the Allied landings at Normandy, order German
regiments into the streets of Zeist to march up and down singing in military
formation endless repetitions of "Deutschland uber Alles" (Germany over all).
The Resistance learned to gauge Allied progress or defeat by the number of
times these marches took place. The more repetitions the worse the battle
had gone for the Germans. Just the sound of the first measures is enough to
make her physically ill.
Who are WE to "educate her" as the respondent proposes? She had an
unparalleled first-hand education in a classroom that lasted for five years
from May 10, 1940 until May 8, 1945. Thus, her association with Haydn's
music, corrupted by the Nazis, is hardly a mere "surface connotation."
As for when it ends? It doesn't. Certainly never in the lifetimes of those
who are the survivors. I have learned so much from her about enduring
sacrifice and deprivation, about the "Hunger Winter" of 1944 when they ate
tulip bulbs because there was simply nothing to eat, no fuel for cooking or
warmth or light, of risking their lives every single day to aid the Allies,
downed pilots, intelligence operations. Even her little seven-year old
brother carried five hidden copies of a mimeographed underground newsletter
in his knapsack to deliver to certain people en route to school.
When does it end? Ask Elie Wiesel: Never. May I recommend reading Viktor
Klemperer's moving diary, I will bear witness. That is what my Dutch friend
does every time she hears that hymn . . . and declines to sing.
Margaret Shannon
Arlington, VA
choral...@aol.com
D. Bohn
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
There's been a lot of discussion recently about racist/antisemitic
connotations in music (i.e. Ching-a-ring Chaw, and the Austrian/German
National Anthem, which, IIRC, was written as a patriotic song by
Haydn, it the mode of "God Save Our King").
I was not aware of the background of Copland's arrangement of Ching-a-
Ring-Chaw, and I've known the piece for over twenty years. This
information was quite a revelation, as I've always assumed the text
was original, and should be taken at face value.
I personally have problems with the use of the German National Anthem
as a hymntune as well, despite the fact that I have no connection
to the events of WWII in the way that Ms. Shannon's friend does. I don't
like playing it in church, and I would _never_ make a musical setting
of it for use in a church, no matter how much I would be paid. There's a
bunch of music that I really have no desire to perform, given its racist
overtones (like a bunch of Stephen Foster's pieces). They may be part of
history, And they need to be acknowledged as part of the history, but
one should be sensitive to the feelings of others. To a point.
I've been listening recently to the cast album of the show PARADE
(1999 Tony award winner for best score and best book, book by Alfred
Uhry, music by Jason Robert Brown, directed by Hal Prince). The score
contains some of the best music I've heard in a Broadway show in the
last ten years. It is based on actual events in Georgia in the period
of 1913-1915, specifically, the trial (and possible railroading) of
a New York-born Jew named Leo Frank in the murder of a 13 year old girl
who worked in the factory he supervised. It contains a number of things
that would be disturbing to some, including the "N-word", some anti-white
feelings voiced by African-American members of the cast, and a boatload
of antisemitism. And honestly, some of it still bothers me, despite the
fact that I've listened to the show countless times. But it _SHOULD_
bother me. It's an ugly, disturbing, story that NEEDS TO BE TOLD, lest
it happen again. And one _cannot_ tell the story without the bigotry.
There are times that such things MUST BE, for the simple reason of
bearing witness to such dark times in our history. Ugly truths need
to remain ugly because there is truth there as well-- and one risks
covering the truth if one tries to beautify the ugly. Besides, the
purveyors of bigotry frequently cover their poisons with attractive,
pleasant-tasting coatings. The better to make it go down easily.
Would I perform some of the potentially objectionable numbers from
PARADE on their own, outside of the context of the show? Probably
not. Would I take part in a complete performance/production of PARADE?
Without hesitation, and without apology for the darkness therein.
Would I automatically refuse to do the Copland piece that started this,
given its racist beginnings? Probably not, but I'd certainly be more
sensitive to the issue of how it should be programmed.
And I previously said that I would be very reluctant to do anything
with the German National Anthem, given its connotations. Except in one
situation. Should the context dictate it's usage, I would use it in
incidental music for a theater production about the holocaust.
Without hesitation.
Without Apology.
David Bohn
Composer
Organist
Conductor
db...@net66.com
http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~wac/members/bohnd.html
Richard C. Wall
allow a performance of Haydn's "Emperor" String Quartet?
Just asking.....
Richard
--------------
"Misery loves company
But it can't stand competition..."
http://www.mindspring.com/~rcwall5000/
D. Bohn wrote:
[snip]
Richard C. Wall
BENL...@aol.com
I agree. Truth is powerful, redemptive, healing, just. I have just
completed a work on "Daddy" King, Martin Luther King Jr.'s father, who
changed his name from Michael Luther King to Martin Luther King in 1934 after
a trip to Germany where he visited sights of the reformation. (There's more
to this fascinating story- e-mail me privately and I'll share sources).
Hitler was just coming to power, and King was worried about him at the time.
In the piece "Daddy" King narrates his life story, which included the
eviction of his family of eleven from their two-room shack, and the use of
the word "nigger." I have Hitler's voice shouting out over marching (choir
marching in place). There were african-americans in the audience at the
premiere, and those I talked to expressed appreciation for telling the story
in a realistic manner. I could see the German National Anthem fitting in in
this context, however I ended the piece with a gospel arrangement of A Mighty
Fortress, which has some of the same weight of history about it, and for some
perhaps a slight tinge of anti-semitism for those who hold its author, Martin
Luther, accountable for his anti-semitic writings. This is from a larger
work about Martin Luther, in which I will deal briefly with Luther's
anti-semitism through the character of Dieterich Bonhoeffer. It is a fairly
complicated intersection of inter-racial relationships which I haven't
completely sorted through, but I'm hoping to come out the other end with some
meaningful catharsis around issues of race for these communities.
Ben Allaway
Choir Diretor and Composer-in-Residence
First Christian Church
Des Moines, IA
Justin Pearson
> In a message dated 4/2/2000 2:57:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> BAC...@aol.com writes:
><< I believe we should reclaim music that
> "may" have negative associations by educating people, not give in to
> their surface connections, in which case those that supplanted the
> tunes have won, and the rest of us have lost. After all, when does
> it end? >> I take vigorous exception to these suggestions because,
> in my view, they fail to reflect an understanding of the horrors
> that the World War II generation -- the "greatest generation" -- has
> experienced and the scars that will remain, like a number branded on
> an arm, until the last survivor has died.
We have a number of facts and problems:
i) Hayden wrote a tune which wasn't intended for use by the Nazis
ii) During WWII the tune was used by the Nazis as an anthem (I lack
a good word here but it will do).
iii) What the Nazis did to people was horrible (to put is mildly).
iv) There are still people around who when they hear Hayden's tune are
reminded of the Nazis. (The posters Dutch friend).
As intelligent sensitive people we have two conflicting problems.
a) Some people believe that since Hayden had nothing to do with the
Nazis we should be able to play/sing the tune.
b) We recognise that people went through personal hell and want to be
sensitive to their feelings by not playing the tune.
As with every thing in life we have a problem of balance. Too much of
(b) and we ourselves end up propagating the Nazi contentions of
Hayden's tune. Too much of (a) we are saying the the experience of
people who lived through the war is worthless.
Surely in a church situation some balance can be achieved. Both sides
through pray and understanding can start to understand the otherside.
(It is all such a pity because the Hayden tune is so beautiful to
sing).
As an example of seemingly harmless church services that can be deeply
offensive. Every year at our church we do a british legion service we
supposedly we remember those who fought in the Wars. In fact we
remember only the British who fought in the wars. Further we sing such
hymns as "I vow to thee my country" (we miss out the politically
incorrect verses of the British national anthem through). As a
Christian I find these sentiments offensive. We should be following
Christ's example and praying for our enemies, my prays are for all
those who died in the war and I don't vow to thee my country,
countries have caused enough problems that my allegiance is to God.
It will take a long time for many church members to have such services
which remember both parties.
Regards
Justin Pearson
Richard C. Wall
it occurred to me that anyone under 45 years
of age would not associate the Nazis with that
tune! They would have to be taught that.
I rest my case.
And I read and reread the words to "Ching-a-ring-chaw"
and the only thing I can find to make it "racist" is the
fact that the "g's" are dropped from the words.
I just don't see how it's offensive other than that, if
that is even offensive.
Choral...@aol.com
country." Just this past fall we opened our concert season with the entire
audience singing this stirring song. In researching my program notes, I
discovered a very direct connection with our concert setting, Washington National
Cathedral.
I thought perhaps you and others would enjoy knowing more about the real story
behind the poetry, which began in Sweden in one context, and was revised in
Washington, DC in a totally different context. Indeed, the revisions reflect his new
allegiance to his "Christian citizenship" above all else.
Herewith my notes (copyrighted!) for "I vow to thee, my country."
"I vow to thee, my country," H 148 Gustav Holst
(1874-1934)
This beloved hymn, memorized by generations of British school children, owes
its present form to the life-changing experiences of its author as a diplomat before
and during the First World War. Sir Cecil Spring-Rice began and ended his
career in the British diplomatic service in Washington, D.C. He became British
ambassador to the United States in 1913 only two months after Woodrow Wilson,
who is interred in Washington National Cathedral, took office as president of the
United States. As Europe lurched ominously toward the first world-wide
conflagration of the twentieth century, the United States, led by its pacifist
secretary of state William Jennings Bryan, vowed to maintain strict neutrality
which Spring-Rice sought continuously to breach. Once President Wilson
decided early in his second term that he must "make the world safe for
democracy" by entering the war against the Germany militarists in April 1917,
Ambassador Spring-Rice felt "an immense and irreparable loss" at being recalled
from Washington.
On the eve of his departure, January 12, 1918, the ambassador wrote a farewell
note to the now-former secretary of state William Jennings Bryan: "The greatest
object of all, - at the most terrific cost and the most tremendous sacrifice - will, I
hope, last be permanently established, Peace." He enclosed some verses, "a
spontaneous outpouring" that had been inspired, he said, by Bryan's recently
published volume, Heart to Heart Appeals.
In 1908, while minister to Sweden, Spring-Rice had written "Urbs Dei" (City of
God), a poem on the theme of a Christian's dual citizenship in two countries, his
own and the heavenly kingdom. How he viewed the obligations of that citizenship
had changed drastically over the past decade.
Less than a month later, Sir Cecil Spring-Rice died suddenly in Ottawa on the
first leg of his journey home to Britain. He was just fifty-eight. A memorial service
for the former British ambassador was held in Bethlehem Chapel of Washington
National Cathedral on Saturday, February 14, 1918, at the same hour as his
funeral in Ottawa. President and Mrs. Woodrow Wilson led the mourners who
included members of Congress and the Supreme Court, the Cabinet, and the
diplomatic corps. The Washington Star noted in its account of the service that
Spring-Rice, who worshiped at the Cathedral during his stay in Washington, had
written to Bishop Alfred Harding on his last day in Washington to express the
wish that he might some time return to the capital to see the Cathedral
completed."
Sir Cecil's daughter attended St. Paul's Girls School in London where she was
a classmate of Imogen Holst, daughter of the director of music at the school,
Gustav Holst. "At the time he was asked to set these words to music" sometime
about 1921, she recalled later, "Holst was so over-worked and over-weary that he
felt relieved to discover that they 'fitted' the tune from 'Jupiter'" he had written early
in 1917 for his orchestral suite, The Planets. "I vow to thee, my country" was first
published as a hymn in 1925.
Holst named the hymn tune "Thaxted," after the Essex village where he had a
cottage and where he had written much of The Planets. In July 1981, the hymn
was sung at the marriage of Lady Diana Spencer for her marriage to the Prince of
Wales at St. Paul's Cathedral and again at her funeral in 1997. This is the first
performance of Holst's own orchestration of "Thaxted" in Washington National
Cathedral.
I vow to thee, my country, all earthly things above,
entire and whole and perfect, the service of my love:
the love that asks no question, the love that stands the test,
that lays upon the altar the dearest and the best;
the love that never falters, the love that pays the price,
the love that makes undaunted the final sacrifice.
And there's another country, I've heard of long ago,
most dear to them that love her, most great to them that know;
we may not count her armies, we may not see her King;
her fortress is a faithful heart, her pride is suffering;
and soul by soul and silently her shining bounds increase,
and her ways are ways of gentleness and all her paths are peace.
-Cecil Spring-Rice (1859-1918)
written on January 12, 1918
NOTE: For anyone thinking of using the original Holst orchestration, which is
wonderful, getting the parts was a tortuous ordeal! They had to be created; I have
the feeling that the orchestration has not been performed in many, many years!
Margaret Shannon
Program Annotator and Editor, Prelude
Cathedral Choral Society
Washington National Cathedral
Washington, DC 20016-5098
Choral...@aol.com
Steve Doerr
news:v7e66ty...@geting.docs.uu.se...
> We have a number of facts and problems:
>
> i) Hayden wrote a tune which wasn't intended for use by the Nazis
>
> ii) During WWII the tune was used by the Nazis as an anthem (I lack
> a good word here but it will do).
This was nothing to do with the Nazis. Deutschland Über Alles existed (and
AFAIK was the German national anthem) long before the Nazi party was
invented. The tune still *is* the German national anthem, only the first
verse has been dropped. The Allied powers at the end of WWII could
presumably have forced (West) Germany to pick a new tune for their national
anthem: significantly, they didn't.
Steve
Doreen Simmons
>news:v7e66ty...@geting.docs.uu.se...
>> We have a number of facts and problems:
>>
>> i) Hayden wrote a tune which wasn't intended for use by the Nazis
>>
>> ii) During WWII the tune was used by the Nazis as an anthem (I lack
> > a good word here but it will do).
>
Towards the end of my only trip to North America, I was amazed in Boston to
hear a church carillon clock playing "God save the Queen." Cautious
enquiries revealed that these crazy Yanks believed it was a sort of second
national anthem of their own called "My country, 'tis of thee." Weird!
~Doreen in sumoland~
~Subliminal thought for the day~
Michael Hartney
> Deutschland Über Alles existed (and
> AFAIK was the German national anthem) long before the Nazi party was
> invented.
>
> Steve
Haydn's tune has been sung to at least three different texts: (1) The Austrian
imperial anthem (which was originally “Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser” “God save
emperor Franz”), (2) the German national anthem “Deutschland über alles” and
(3) the English hymn “Glorious things of thee are spoken”.
It is not the case that the words of Haydn’s tune were changed to “Deutschland
über alles” by the Nazis, as one contributor to this discussion stated.
"Deutschland über alles" was a mid-nineteenth century patriotic poem (sung to
Haydn's tune) promoting the unification of Germany, and became the national
anthem after unification came about in 1871.
And it is not the case that the words mean “Germany over all” as another
contributor stated, but “Germany above all”. It is not a hymn to conquest and
domination, but a hymn to love of country, typical of the period when it was
written, the period which also gave us “My country, right or wrong”, words
which were uttered, need one be reminded, by an American. It may be mindlessly
patriotic, but no less so than "I vow to thee, my country" (mentioned by
another contributor), and the Nazis had nothing to do with making it so.
That being said, it remains that it was the national anthem of Germany during
the period when the Nazis enslaved half of Europe, and killed millions of
people. The question is whether this fact requires us to forego singing
“Glorious things of thee are spoken” and performing Haydn’s quartet Op. 76, no.
3, which contains a set of variations on the tune.
Michael Hartney
Ottawa (ON) Canada
hart...@magma.ca
John Howell
>AFAIK was the German national anthem) long before the Nazi party was
>verse has been dropped. The Allied powers at the end of WWII could
>presumably have forced (West) Germany to pick a new tune for their national
>anthem: significantly, they didn't.
>
>Steve
Interesting. Of course there was no "Germany" until a treaty in 1871
united the various Germanic kingdoms of the old Holy Roman Empire under the
Prussians, so I wonder whether the tune was used prior to that for Prussia
or another of the kingdoms.
John
John & Susie Howell
Virginia Tech Department of Music
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:John....@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
Richard C. Wall
the age of 40 even know what "Deutschland Über Alles"
is all about. Hell, they don't even know about Vietnam!
Mike McManus
>
> I still claim that 95% of those alive today under
> the age of 40 even know what "Deutschland Über Alles"
> is all about. Hell, they don't even know about Vietnam!
Then, of course, there's the true name of the Monk in P.D.Q. Bach's
_Hansel and Gretel and Ted and Alice_ (an opera in one unnatural
act):
Alice Über Deutschland. ;-)
--
"... gays invented sports." ... "Take boxing," I said. "Two topless
men ... in silk shorts ... fighting ... for a belt and a purse."
-- Ant, on espn.com's "The Last Closet" site
<http://espn.go.com/otl/world/comedian.html>
Brian G Mueller
Richard C. Wall wrote in message <38EE8605...@mindspring.com>...
>I still claim that 95% of those alive today under
>the age of 40 even know what "Deutschland Über Alles"
>is all about. Hell, they don't even know about Vietnam!
>
Your lack of faith in those under 40 is appalling! Not only do i know what
Deutschland Uber Alles is about, I also know the importance of the Beerhall
Putsch, Da Nang, Midway, Gallipoli, the Treaty of Versailles, the left Hook
of the Persian Gulf War, Varus and the loss of the Three Eagles, the Monroe
Doctrine and the Magna Carta. I also know about the Mannheim School,
Serialism and how to analyze Hindemith's 'Mathis der Mahler'. So, please
stop your sweeping generalizations and instead of lamenting the state of
knowledge today, do something about it. Teach someone who doesn't know
about these things.
Brian M.
Glenn Knickerbocker
When I was searching for a half-remembered hymn tune once, a minister
friend handed me a stack of different hymnals that might contain it. One
of them was so awful it made me feel soiled just by skimming through it.
I turned one page to see something that struck me as far more disgusting
than all the bad music and bad theology I'd flipped past so far. All I
could think was that it had to be a Jew-hating compiler's "retaliation"
for the transformation of his beloved "Deutschland ueber alles" into a
call for the restoration of Zion. It was a Doxology--to the tune of
"Shalom chaverim."
ŹR http://members.aol.com/notr/whynot.r.html N.B. -
Do not on any account attempt to write on both sides of the paper at once.
Christopher Currie
<w07H4.932$VZ6.1...@news.dircon.co.uk>
sdo...@bornnaked.com "Steve Doerr" wrote:
>
> Justin Pearson <jus...@docs.uu.se> wrote in message
> news:v7e66ty...@geting.docs.uu.se...
> > We have a number of facts and problems:
> >
> > i) Hayden wrote a tune which wasn't intended for use by the Nazis
> >
> > ii) During WWII the tune was used by the Nazis as an anthem (I lack
> > a good word here but it will do).
>
> This was nothing to do with the Nazis. Deutschland Über Alles existed (and
> AFAIK was the German national anthem) long before the Nazi party was
> invented. The tune still *is* the German national anthem, only the first
> verse has been dropped. The Allied powers at the end of WWII could
> presumably have forced (West) Germany to pick a new tune for their national
> anthem: significantly, they didn't.
Well, perhaps they wondered: 'Why should the Devil have all the best tunes'?
--
Christopher Currie
ccu...@bloxwich.demon.co.uk
uhudla
of Austria, where
Joseph Haydn lived - Eisenstadt / Esterhazy) was a part of Hungarian (till
1921).
For a long time, people sang this melody in the catholic church with the
words of "Tantum ergo, sacramentum"
Richard C. Wall <rcwal...@mindspring.com> schrieb im Beitrag
<38EF55C2...@mindspring.com>...
>
Christopher Currie <dev...@bloxwich.demon.co.uk> schrieb im Beitrag
<20000410.2...@bloxwich.demon.co.uk>...