Violin makers vs/ low cost violins from China and Europe ?
Gaetan Mailloux
Hi
Violin makers vs/ low cost violins from China and eastern Europe ?
I'm still learn to become violin maker, but more and more I seen guy's who
buy low cost violin from china and eastern Europe for $300 to $ 500., and
those violin do have sometime a good sound and few have a very good sound.
How, with those violin arround, can we ask a fair price for violins that
we work long and hard to do the best we can, who will still want to paid
$ 1000 and more for a real hand made violin wen they can buy a cheaper one
with a good sound and a nice look ??
How, those of you who are professional violin makers, do manage to sell
your violin a fair price for the work you done wen peoples can buy violins
for so low price ??
Only those who have a "name" on the market, can ask a normal and fair
price for those violins they made after long works ??
Is there a future in violin making ?
I don't want to run like a rabbit to made violin and being paid with
peanuts like a monkey... :-)
Violin making are still an art not just a job... I hope so ..
Bye
Gaetan
Rex
As a teacher, I look for the best deal for my students. If I find a
cheap Chinese violin that exhibits good workmanship and excellent tonal
characteristics for one-quarter the price of a new violin by an domestic
maker, I will encourage the student to buy the less expensive
instrument. In my experience, I have observed the following:
1. Really cheap, poorly-made instruments should never be allowed into
the hands of a student. Their place is as a prop in a dramatic
production, a wall hanging in a less expensive residence, or as kindling
in the fireplace of your mountain hideaway.
2. Well-made Chinese instruments are quite decent. The ones I've seen
are impressive to look at. They would be good for students and compare
favorably with some of the better student line instruments available
from music stores and the reputable mail order firms that many of us
deal with all the time.
3. I am still waiting to see one of these violins that really sounds as
good as it looks. This is not to say that they sound bad. They respond
well and produce an acceptable tone quality.
4. None of the Chinese, European, or domestic student instruments are
good enough for professional use. I see the Chinese instruments as
competing with other student instruments, not first-rate examples of the
maker's art.
I play an American violin made for me by David Wiebe in 1984. It's a
fine instrument and I'm proud to play it. I have heard other "new"
instruments by various makers that are impressive and rival the fine
makers of the past. These makers have nothing to fear from the "cheap
Chinese violins." There are very likely some excellent Chinese makers.
Their work will be judged on its merit. If it is truly of professional
caliber, it won't be cheap, at least not for long.
As a maker, will you make truly fine instruments or just pretty ones?
Make the best and cheap competition will be someone else's problem.
--
AUTOMATIC REPLIES will not work.
TO REPLY, remove the first "r" from my email address.
This is an attempt to inhibit spam-o-matic junk mail.
Gaetan Mailloux
Hi
I will make the best instruments, pretty violin are just for the look and
not for the ear, but there's still a majority who look more than listen
wen they buy a violin.
Bye
Gaetan
Linus Liu
After years spending lots of money on violins, now I play a
Chinese violin all the time. This Chinese violin sounds excellent.
It is consistently mistaken for the Italian violins it is brought to
compared with behind blinds (he claimed, and I believe. All my
past teachers own and play on old Italian instruments incl
Strad. Guadanini, ... others I do not now remember).
This man's work is now gradually getting recognised in USA.
Now they are still (very) cheap.
I'll gladly email anyone some .MP3 recording files if requested.
I also like to hear any recording of any good violins if they claim
to be.
Linus Liu.
Rex wrote:
> As a teacher, I look for the best deal for my students. If I find a
> cheap Chinese violin that exhibits good workmanship and excellent tonal
> characteristics for one-quarter the price of a new violin by an domestic
> maker, I will encourage the student to buy the less expensive
> instrument. In my experience, I have observed the following:
>
> 1. Really cheap, poorly-made instruments should never be allowed into
> the hands of a student. Their place is as a prop in a dramatic
> production, a wall hanging in a less expensive residence, or as kindling
> in the fireplace of your mountain hideaway. ...
Al Carruth
One thing to watch out for on most production instruments, and specifically on
all of the innexpensive Chinese ones I have seen, is white glue. I consider
White glue to be the moral equivelant of bubble gum; it neither holds things
together over the long term, nor can you get it loose easilly when you want to.
I makes the inevitable repairs a real nightmare. Do you really want to own, or
to saddle your students, with an instrument that can't be fixed economically?
Alan Carruth / Luthier
bill
> After years spending lots of money on violins, now I play a
> Chinese violin all the time. This Chinese violin sounds excellent.
> It is consistently mistaken for the Italian violins it is brought to
> compared with behind blinds (he claimed, and I believe. All my
> past teachers own and play on old Italian instruments incl
> Strad. Guadanini, ... others I do not now remember).
>
> This man's work is now gradually getting recognised in USA.
> Now they are still (very) cheap.
>
> I'll gladly email anyone some .MP3 recording files if requested.
> I also like to hear any recording of any good violins if they claim
> to be.
>
> Linus Liu.
What is the name of the maker of the violin you so highly recommend?
Henry Law
The cheap violins are that - cheap. And most of them play poorly; but
occasionally one turns out surprisingly well - just as the occasional
instrument from a good manufacturer turns out badly. Some dealers and
makers round this area offer the chinese instruments once they have set
them up properly; for this they make a charge, but I am told that the
results are a considerable improvement.
Many young players round here play on Rumanian instruments; some of
those are good workmanlike affairs, with decent tone - but you have to
look at the individual instrument to see which ones.
In article <350959...@ix.netcom.com>, Rex <rre...@ix.netcom.com>
writes
>As a teacher, I look for the best deal for my students. If I find a
>cheap Chinese violin that exhibits good workmanship and excellent tonal
>characteristics for one-quarter the price of a new violin by an domestic
>maker, I will encourage the student to buy the less expensive
>instrument.
>2. Well-made Chinese instruments are quite decent. The ones I've seen
>are impressive to look at. They would be good for students and compare
>favorably with some of the better student line instruments available
>from music stores and the reputable mail order firms that many of us
>deal with all the time.
>
>4. None of the Chinese, European, or domestic student instruments are
>good enough for professional use.
Of course not - they're for _student_ use, by definition: but I hope you
don't mean that there are no lower-budget instruments from China, the US
or Europe which are not capable of making a professional sound - if you
do I disagree strongly with you.
The question is invited, however, "how much for a student instrument?".
A Lark violin or whatever goes for around UKP100, including case and a
stick with some hair attached. That's frankly not enough - and they
don't even look nice enough to hang on the wall! On the other hand
UKP1000 pays for a nice 100-year-old French violin with a good tone,
quite capable of sustaining a student well into a degree course - at
which time many of them are playing semi-professionally to keep bread on
the table (well, beer on the table perhaps). Is that a professional
instrument?
>These makers have nothing to fear from the "cheap
>Chinese violins." There are very likely some excellent Chinese makers.
>Their work will be judged on its merit. If it is truly of professional
>caliber, it won't be cheap, at least not for long.
Totally agree; most of the luthiers in this country are sold out for
months ahead.
Henry Law <>< h...@thelaws.demon.co.uk
Manchester, England
JDT
ba...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Gaetan Mailloux) wrote:
>
>Hi
>Bye
>Gaetan
I guess I see it a little bit differently. I have a fine comtemporary
American violin, made for me at my commission in 1964. I have played
it continuously since then. I assume it has appreciated considerably.
I also happen to play viola, andI needed one rather recently as my old
one is both too large and has a raucous sound (OTOH it WAS given to me
by an amateur maker friend). So I have been out shopping. I do have
a budget since I do many other things (like sailboating). My violin
repairman ever since the original maker died makes very fine
instruments which sell in the low five figures. He also sells violins
from other sources. At his recommendation he got a Chinese viola for
me to try out which I am doing right now. He may have to do some
adjustments, but this is a pretty decent instrument for the price
which is somewhere near $2000. Both he and I doubt that I can touch
the quality of the sound for less than twice or even triple that. It
certainly is an adequate instrument for an advanced student or
talented amateur, especially in my case where the viola is not my
primary instrument. This morning I played this four day old viola
(as far as playing goes - It was made last year) in the Brahms piano
quintet at a chamber music forum at a local university. The director
of the forum made particular mention of the viola's tone (and I
flatter myself to think my playing too) in a particular part of this
work.
I talked about the question of foreign factory instruments with my
maker and the economic impact. His view is he has all the commissions
he can handle for his high end violins. His view and mine is that
decent domestic violin by recognized professional makers, not in a
factory environment are really unobtainable for a player with my
demands for less than $4-5K (and usually higher).
He has been selling decent chinese violins to advanced students after
doing some fitting out himself. When they are ready for an advanced
instrument, they will come back to him, plus they will buy cases,
bows, repair work etc. from him.
Am I going to keep this viola....I don't know yet. Probably, because
while I am paying for some other big ticket items (boat, car) I really
cannot afford now to pay more. So my alternative is to buy this
overseas viola or do without. My maker knows that I very well may
move up in a couple of years anyway. As for factory violins, There
have been both good and terrible violins coming out of almost anyplace
on the planet where violins are made for years. To say an instrument
comes from Italy does not make it good, to say it came from the Far
East or eastern Europe does not neccessarily make it bad.
Jon Teske, violinist (and sometime violist)
JDT
I am now trying out a 16 1/2 Chinese viola by one Ji Yuan of Bejing
and imported by a firm in Boston. I got it on Wednesday and have
played one recital (Brahms Piano Quartet Op 34) and have had the
entire viola sections of two orchestras in the Washington DC area take
a look and play it.
It is both a fine looking and fine sounding instrument and has not yet
had any work done by my local repairman/violin maker upon whose
recommendation I am trying this instrument out. His impression is that
a domestic non factory viola would have to cost around $5-7K to equal
this one. Its cost is approximately $2000 including a good retangular
case...about 2400-2500 or so with a bow, which I did not need.
My viola playing colleagues were quite enthusiastic about the viola.
(BTW, I am primarily a violinist and normally play a very fine
American violin( Lawrence La May) from the mid 1960s.)
While I still have this on approval, I think it will be a "keeper" at
this kind of price. I am very familiar with European Factory fiddles
and had two of them as a kid and have seen many more recent ones.
They are nowhere in the league of this instrument. My maker has told
me he has been getting violins from the same source. Those he has done
some considerable value added work. The violas have been quite a bit
better and this one is being tried right out of the shipping case.
This particular insturment was made last year and is antiqued somewhat
to look much older than it actually is. The maker did a rather
convincing job.
Jon Teske