Adams Compensator Guitar

[David M. Parry]

Any luthiers out there who've hear of Andy Adams and his compensator
bracing system? I heard that there is an expired patent on this system
which turns the back of the guitar into a soundboard. Any info would be
appreciated.

[r...@ronperrone.com]

Hello. My name is Ron Perrone. I am not a luthier but I knew Andy, played music with him for a few years, and was there with him in the shop in Shepherdstown, WV as he was developing the idea of compensator struts. I played a number of these guitars and would give my eye teeth to own one, if it should still be playable. In addition to having some some interesting structural ideas they also had flaws. Contact me if you want at r...@ronperrone.com

[Nick Odell]

Hi Ron,

I haven't seen David Parry in recent times in
rec.music.makers.builders - and the post you quoted goes back to 1996.

Many current subscribers to the group would, I'm sure, be fascinated
to hear more. I would certainly be one of them! If you have the time,
perhaps you could post your thoughts and comments here?

Best wishes,

Nick

[Nick Odell]

(Ron wrote back to me with more information. For technical reasons it
is easier for me to post his reply to usenet and he has given me
permission to share it all with you. PS - the patent diagrams in the
link are a work of art in themselves - Nick)

Hi Nick,

I was googling my way around the net searching for any guitars built
by
Andy (there weren't many ever built before he died) and blundered into
the old post to which I responded. Anyway back in the 1970's, Andy was
working on the idea to clear up the problem that so any guitars have,
which is that many great sounding guitars produce unbalanced muddy
sound
when you try to mic them. He went with the idea that the clarity of
the
instrument was a function of the stiffness to mass ratio of the sound
box (including the back of the guitar). He patented a strutting
system
that coupled the X brace under the top of the guitar to the back. As
is
well known, doing so as one would do say, in a violin, normally kills
the sound of a guitar, which is why no one builds them with sound
posts
like a violin. But he thought that it COULD be done and that the
result
would be a loud clear and articulate sound.

As we now know, others have conquered the muddy sound problem in other
ways such as using carbon fiber for instance and other methods which
cope with standing waves inside the instrument such as ports (sound
holes) in the side instead of the front. But Andy thought that using a
properly placed pair of sound posts could pull it off in a more
traditionally built instrument. As he experimented, he found that to
achieve this stiffness to mass ration involved using thin bracing,
slightly thicker wood for the top and back, and careful planing of all
surfaces, including - especially- the back.

Problems arose, I think, because (A) he never had enough money to
experiment and (B) he overlapped other experimental ideas into his
instruments which compromised overall structural stability. In other
words, he tinkered with multiple variables. This produced variable
results, and no 2 of his guitars ever sounded the same. A few wound up
with back necks that were really hard to repair. Also, he really liked
a
style of sound box that resembled some of the old Spanish instruments.
Very rounded shoulders, and an overall small, very round body which
were
deeper than most guitars today. The sound holes seemed large to me.
The
overall craftsmanship was extraordinary.

Additionally, once he patented his ideas for neck reinforcing rods and
the "compensator" struts, he took his ideas to a big trade show. I
did
not go, so what I heard from him on his return is second hand, and
knowing Andy's tendencies toward hyperbole, I really don't know what
to
make of the following. He said that the Ovation booth was right across
from his and that when people started comparing his guitars to theirs,
they became so upset that they took down their booth, and left.
Shortly
afterward, he DID receive a very direct threat from Ovation that if
he
attempted to market his ideas, they would sue. I did see this letter.

Living hand to mouth as he did, there was no way he could cope with
this
and pretty much lost heart in guitar making. He had other skills such
as
gunsmithing to fall back on.

In the mid 70's we bombed around the Shepherstown, West Virginia area
together playing folk music. We lost touch a number of years ago. I
know
he eventually married. He died a couple of years ago Nov 10, 2010.
People I remember as having his guitars are Mark Smith and Don Haerr.
He
built 6, 12 and 14 string instruments. The last one was destined for
William Bogel (sp?) of Spain, but it went somewhere else before it was
finished when Andy ran out of money.

See his patent diagrams at
http://www.google.com/patents?id=J6wtAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

I own a double neck 6/12 string guitar built by Billy Connolly
(formerly
of Kramer), now also deceased, and building on Andy's idea, I later
modified it in a similar way and the results are stunning. But that's
another very strange tale.

-Ron

[Benoit Meulle-Stef]

On Tuesday, June 25, 1996 9:00:00 AM UTC+2, David M. Parry wrote:
> Any luthiers out there who've hear of Andy Adams and his compensator
> bracing system? I heard that there is an expired patent on this system
> which turns the back of the guitar into a soundboard. Any info would be
> appreciated.

Interesting idea, I'm doing something similar on a folk guitar right now but his approach is much more radical!

[David Hajicek]

Interesting. It appears Andy is trying to accomplish the same thing a main
cross brace does on a classical top.

Usually flying braces are used a little differently to try to keep the neck
from pulling up.

Dave H

[David Hajicek]

"Benoit Meulle-Stef" <b...@bmsguitars.com> wrote in message
news:4fff0518-7f36-479c...@googlegroups.com...

The back of the guitar is coupled to the top. Through the air inside the
guitar and through the sides and neck. If you want a bar from the top to
the back, it may have to be like on a violin, where it is off to the side
and adjustable in location so the best coupling can be determined by
experiment.

I don't know what the best tuning of the top and back might be for such a
system. I suppose similar relative tuning as on a violin (which I don't
know).

Have fun.

Dave H

[Tony Done]

Didn't Loyd Loar experiment with guitars with "active" backs? It seems
to me that it works on the violin family because the back is not damped
by body contact. His system might have used sides that were deep enough
beyond the body at the back to reduce this contact, I can't remember the
details.

--
Tony Done

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=784456
http://www.flickr.com/photos/done_family/

[David Hajicek]

"Tony Done" <tony...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:k939iq$48b$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

I've read of guitars with "double backs", where there is an inside back and
an outside back, supposidly to keep the active back from being damped.
Also, I've read of systems to keep the body from touching the back and
causing damping. The classical playing position is partly to prevent
contacting the back. Steel string guitars don't seem to have as much
sensitivity to this effect as classical. Perhaps because of the heavier
construction?

Dave H

[Tony Done]

On Nov 28, 8:20 am, "David Hajicek" <haji...@skypoint.com> wrote:
> "Tony Done" <tonyd...@bigpond.com> wrote in message

The classical playing position is partly to prevent
> contacting the back.  Steel string guitars don't seem to have as much
> sensitivity to this effect as classical.  Perhaps because of the heavier
> construction?
>

> Dave H- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I hadn't thought about that before. I wonder, in general how much
tonal advantage seated (steel string) players, eg myself, get over
players who play while standing?

You could use an add-on, something like a John Pearse armrest but on
the back, to get more clearance if need be.

Tony D

[ibob...@gmail.com]

i met andy in ....i guess it was 78 or 79....i was on tour with jesse winchester and andy showed up with one of his guitars to show us....he also had a contact pickup he had designed...a transducer type covered in a black plastic cover with a dagger molded in...i bought a few of them...they were certainly better sounding than the barcus berry's we had been using....i might still have one in a case somewhere....
i wish i had bought one of those "strutted" guitars....

[ibob...@gmail.com]

[kensin...@gmail.com]

On Friday, May 6, 2016 at 11:58:36 PM UTC-4, ibob...@gmail.com wrote:
> i met andy in ....i guess it was 78 or 79....i was on tour with jesse winchester and andy showed up with one of his guitars to show us....he also had a contact pickup he had designed...a transducer type covered in a black plastic cover with a dagger molded in...i bought a few of them...they were certainly better sounding than the barcus berry's we had been using....i might still have one in a case somewhere....
> i wish i had bought one of those "strutted" guitars....

I have an Andy Adams 12-string guitar that I am trying to evaluate for estate purposes; would appreciate any assistance.

[geer...@gmail.com]

I own two Andy Adams guitars. I hope to inherit two more. I will be glad to post some history. Andy passed away a couple years ago but I had many years of history with him. send me an email at: fgee...@earthlink.net and I can share pictures, etc.

[geer...@gmail.com]

Andy Adams guitars were based on moving the struts and amplication. I know personally that when one 12 string was used in many concerts it only needed to be plugged into the mike cord. Fgee...@earthlink.net

[ibob...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 9:47:13 AM UTC-4, geer...@gmail.com wrote:
> I own two Andy Adams guitars. I hope to inherit two more. I will be glad to post some history. Andy passed away a couple years ago but I had many years of history with him. send me an email at: fgee...@earthlink.net and I can share pictures, etc.

i would certainly be interested ....

ibob...@gmail.com

[ara...@earthlink.net]

On Tuesday, June 25, 1996 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-5, David M. Parry wrote:
> Any luthiers out there who've hear of Andy Adams and his compensator
> bracing system? I heard that there is an expired patent on this system
> which turns the back of the guitar into a soundboard. Any info would be
> appreciated.

I was a friend of Andy's. His guitars were unbelievably bright and crisp. I never heard a guitar sound anywhere near as good.
He had a couple of thin struts from the sound hole to the sides to replace the sound post. I think he also had a reinforcing ring around the sound hole to hold the struts.
I seem to remember that Niel Young has one of his guitars. The sound quality was amazing.
He took his idea to Martin and was told if they wanted to build it they would simply wait out his patent. This is what Andy told me.
Everything Andy made was the best he could make it.

[ara...@earthlink.net]

On Tuesday, June 25, 1996 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-5, David M. Parry wrote:
> Any luthiers out there who've hear of Andy Adams and his compensator
> bracing system? I heard that there is an expired patent on this system
> which turns the back of the guitar into a soundboard. Any info would be
> appreciated.

I took a look at the patent drawings and they do not resemble the one I saw. The one I saw had the struts going from the sound hole to the sides of the guitar. If one could locate his wife Carla Adams who I think is in Moosonee, Ontario Canada, she could shed some light on this.