How much did you pay for your first and second violins?
Steve & Gianna
up. I'm trying to find out what people actually did, rather than what
they think the right price points are!
Thanks much for any help.
Steve
DGoree
<<Most people seem to start with a student instrument. Then they step
up. I'm trying to find out what people actually did, rather than what
they think the right price points are! >>
Answered in e-mail in detail. The short answer is that my parents bought my
first full-size when I was ten. It was a German factory instrument. I bought
my next violin when I was a college senior and use it professionally to this
day.
Mary Ellen
William Mutch
gianna...@yahoo.com says...
from a neighborhood junk store. It was pieces in a shoebox salvaged
after immersion in the flood following hurrinane Agnes (1973?). I used
it in classes with CAS founder Carleen Hutchins. After reassembly and
most of a year setting up and tweeking it sounded decent, though I never
got complete evenness of tone on string crossings. I traded it to a
buddy who was a middle school music teacher for a conga drum and he
passed it along to a youngster who otherwize would not have had as good
an instrument.
I inherited an early 20th cent. anonymous German craft shop violin
with bright clean tone and some very nice wood from a grandfather who
bought it new from a dealer in Newark NJ in April 1909. This is the
fiddle I always return to, though sometimes I play a powerful handmade
signature violin made in Italy in the 1930's, a wedding present from my
mother-in-law, or a 3/4 viola, purchased for $80 in a pawn shop which I
converted to a 5 stringer for medieval and renaissance sounds.
I have one fiddle that some people think is worth more than I've
ever paid for a motor vehicle. I didn't buy it. I'll practice for the
rest of my life and never outgrow it, but I can't feel comfortable
taking it out to dances or jam sessions.
The most expensive instruement I've *paid* for is model #110 Kay
'cello in which I've got slightly over $500 for the box and parts and
about a months evenings in repairs, refinishing and setup. It has
survived a half century of high school orchestra rehearsals and sounds
better than a $1K Hermann Beyer I was renting for lessons.
I'm very tempted to buy a nice carbon fiber bow, but I haven't
time enough for practice and my teenage son need dental work.
PeteSchug
gianna...@yahoo.com wrote on 10/23/03 1:35 PM:
Hi Steve,
I got my first violin about twenty years ago. I paid $200 for it. I couldn't
play very well and I judged the violin by its craftsmanship, like the points
of the purfling and the carving of the scroll. It had been refinished by the
luthier who also said he did extensive work on it.
Basically, it is a pretty good violin but when I started playing it
seriously about seven years ago I could hear its faults. It actually broke
in and improved considerably in the first few months of daily practice.
When I built my violin it was much better than the first one, and to my
surprise my violin teacher offered to buy my first fiddle. She though of it
as a pretty good instrument and when I told her what I paid she was a bit
surprised, but I did spend some time breaking it in. The luthier that I
bought it from had signed his name in pencil half on the wood and half on
the label (Nicolo Amati) indicating that it had been opened and probably had
a bit of work done on it, requiring a new breakin.
Pete
PeteSchug
gianna...@yahoo.com wrote on 10/23/03 1:35 PM:
> Most people seem to start with a student instrument. Then they step
Addendum.
I spent something over $350 for the wood that I made my second violin out
of. In the long run it seems to have been a good investment. I play that
violin almost every day.
Pete
RWL
<gianna...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Most people seem to start with a student instrument. Then they step
>up. I'm trying to find out what people actually did, rather than what
>they think the right price points are!
We rented for about 3 years for my son and went from 1/2 to 3/4
without any step up in price. At that point, we owned the instrument.
He needed a 4/4. Since he was interested in continuing in orchestra I
gave him a "budget' of $500 -perhaps $1000 if we found something
really special, and went to J R Judd's violin shop in Willamsport. He
had a line of Canadian-made factory instruments that were around $500
as I recall, and then a whole bunch of used instruments. We must have
tried at least 10 violins, and finally settled on an old German E
Martin for around $800 because it sounded better to us than the other
instruments. It's not a particularly pretty violin although it was
dressed up a bit with hardware with Parisian eyes, but we still like
its sound.
I started with an old Rudolf Wurlitzer German factory instrument that
was given to me. It was informally appraised by a luthier at
$800-$1200 when it was in for repairs. Nevertheless, I never got a
nice tone out of it. Perhaps it's a commentary on my inability to
handle it, but it proved a source of dissatisfaction. My next
instrument was an inexpensive model VN3 from Decor Instruments in
Sparks, NV bought at their scratch and dent sale a couple of years
ago. It had a few small scratches and I think I paid somewhere in the
neighborhood of $100 for it. The wood isn't particularly well flamed,
but it sounds good. The bridge was not well shaped, so I carved a new
one, and that improved its playability.
For my viola, I bought an inexpensive "Cremona" outfit from
International Violin Co in Baltimore on sale for about $100 a couple
of years ago. It needed a little set up tweaking as received. It's
rather plain looking and heavy. I refer to it as my "brick". I
recently bought a "Mozart" model viola from Decor at another of their
scratch & dent sales for about 2/3 of dealer's cost. This one is
almost a kit - a bare corpus and a set of hardware. Just pilot holes
for the pegs and end button.
Locally it seems tha the 4/4 size entry level factory violins run
about $500. The next step up is the $500-$1000 range, and then there
are a lesser number of choices as the price increases, with most
instruments in the $3000 and less category although there are a
handful of $5000 instruments. This may be more a commentary about
what sells in our area of N Central PA.
As an aside, the local real string shop is a fun place to go. I
always learn some interesting tidbit about instruments from the owner
when I'm there, and when shopping he's available for help and advice,
but not hovering over the customer.
RWL
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Liz D
First violin - Nothing. I wanted to play a musical instrument when I
was about 12, we had a violin in the family that belonged to my
maternal grandfather (though he was no violinst himself), an early
20th century German Hopf factory violin. We did very little work on
it other than set it up with strings, from recollection. When I
started playing it again about 4 1/2 years ago, I did get quite a bit
of work done on it, including having the neck reset.
Second violin - Nothing. Earlier this year I had got to the point in
my playing where I felt I needed a better instrument but both my
budget and my knowledge of how to go about finding a "better" violin
were limited. I was fortunate in acquiring another family heirloom
violin, this one belonged to my great-uncle (maternal grandmother's
brother) who was an accomplished violinist. It is an early 20th
century German Stradivarius copy. It was in unplayable condition when
I got it and I had quite a bit of work done on it to put it into
playing condition, again including a neck reset.
These instruments have been valued by my luthier at NZ$1800 and
NZ$3600 respectively, so I have been very lucky (currently NZ$1 =
US$0.60). In both cases, I have spent around 1/3 of the valuation on
repairs & set-up.
Not sure if this is what you're looking for, as I have never actually
"paid" for a violin (to buy one, anyway).
Liz D
Steve & Gianna
and were looking at. I figured my experience was probably different!
I went from a nasty $100 vintage Czeck to a luck-out on the old (non
swamped) eBay of a 1791 GA Gutter III.
Jerry Doyle
(Massachusetts). I bought it 3 years ago when I started to learn to play.
I have since bought a bow from the same guy for $250. I think I am now
getting close to thinking about upgrading. However, whenever I think about
doing this I play on my current fiddle and it just sounds so sweet that I
think "not now, maybe next year."
Still satisfied in Massachusetts,
Jerry Doyle.
"Steve & Gianna" <gianna...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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Young Carpenter
My first violin was borrowed from someone who bought it at a garage sale. it
needed help, for the whole time I had it (about 1 year)
Second was a rental (can't remember brand)
Third was a Cheap (I stress cheap) That my parent bought at $200. If I knew
then what I know now it wasn't worth more than $100 brand new.
My present violin which I have never had assessed, I bought off of a guy
whose hobby was to buy auctioned stringed instruments. I got it for $80. I
have since invested (actually my parents too) $300 in strings and a few
Accident repairs. I paid $115 for a case. Someday I will pay a fortune for
a good Coda bow.;)
--
Young Carpenter
"Violin playing and Woodworking are similar, it takes plenty of money,
plenty of practice, and you usually make way more noise than intended"
{Put the fiddler back "on" the roof to reply}
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K. Rile
J. Teske
my third year of playing. It was bought by my parents from a general
purpose music store. I think they paid about $75 1954 dollars for it.
It was a Pfretzchner factory fiddle marketed by Scherl-Roth. I do
remember that the nun with whom I was studying privately at the time
was a little miffed that my folks bought it at the music store since
she was also selling violin outfits. [There was no purposeful violin
shop within 120 miles of where we lived.] I played that through
first year of college. It was not very good. My next violin was a
fairly decent Czech factory violin labeled "Eberle" (which it was
not). I bought that one from my college violin professor who happened
to have it because his wife, also a violin teacher, took it in trade
when she sold one of her personal violins to one of her students.
Neither one was in the violin selling business, they just happened to
have these violins. I paid $200 1962 dollars for it (actually $125 and
my old violin in trade). This was probably an act of altruism on the
part of my teacher, I suspect this violin may have been worth more. My
third (and present) violin was bought the same week of my college
senior year that I got a notice of hire for what eventually became my
life's work (US Govt Intelligence). I bought it from the noted maker
Lawrence Lamay brand new, on the advice of Rudolf Kolisch who had
Lamay make a violin for him. I paid $1000 for it in 1964 which was 1/6
of my pre-tax income at the time. I remember my fiancee (and still my
wife) was mad as hell that I spent so much for the violin. (Today,
Lamay's, if you can find them, go for between $8 and 10K). Lamay had a
shop near the Madison campus of the U of Wisconsin. He later relocated
to Lexington KY. He also became noted for building bass viols and
probably would have become more reknown had he not died comparatively
early.
On the viola side, my first viola was lent to me by the Civilian
Welfare Organization (a non-appropriated fund organization of my
government agency...they were the outfit that sponsored clubs, bowling
leagues, ball teams etc. for my agency). There was a string quartet at
my agency and the viola player retired. The cellist, who knew me from
a civic orchestra asked me to play viola. At the time I didn't know
how to play viola and I had limited funds and was still paying off my
violin. The CWF got a $35 viola for me. You have no idea how awful a
$35 viola sounds. About the same time, I was a Boy Scout leader on a
regional level, and one of the other Boy Scout leaders was an amateur
luthier. He had made one violin himself, but mostly he fixed up older
ones. I often acted as his test pilot since he did not play. About a
year after I took up viola, he called me to his basement after a Scout
meeting at his house and gave me a brand new viola he had made without
telling me he was going to do so. I played that viola from ca. 1970
when I got it until 1998 when I got my present viola, a high end
Chinese instrument from Eastman which I got from my repairman at the
time.
Jon Teske
Jim Thompson
during the 40's. Being fullsize, it was to large for Rose so I played it
instead. Grandma says it was made in the late '30s -- the label shows it to
be a Japanese Strad. At first I thought it was a great instrument but that
was before I played others. Took lessons from a Celtic teacher and later
gravitated toward classical, which is where my main interests lie. I became
very interested not only in playing but in building. I made two fiddles from
kits, one of which turned out surprisingly well and is now Rosie's -- I wish
she'd play it more.
About a year after I started I went a little crazy and spent a bundle on a
handmade instrument from a local maker -- I was well-employed at the time. I
sometimes show symptoms of "buyer's remorse" but it is a nice instrument.
And the fingerboard is already showing signs of wear, which just reminds me
how much use I'm getting out of it.
Thanks Steve, for asking this question. The responses are most interesting.
jim
"Steve & Gianna" <gianna...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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East Mountains Music
Interesting thread. My first violin was my mother's, a turn of the
century German violin which was purchased for her by my grandfather in
Guthrie, Oklahoma. It was a Ergot Thoma, valued now (I had it
restored ) at about 2K. I use it as my teaching and "outside" violin,
and it grows more beautiful every year.
We carry the Toussaud Lee violins from Howard Core, which received
very positive reviews in the Sept. issue of Strings magazine last
month. We have the K400
(http://eastmountainsmusic.com/violins.html#K400) which is an
extremely nice violin for the price. We regularly sell K500 series
instruments (http://eastmountainsmusic.com/violins.html#K500) and,
most especially, the HC602
(http://eastmountainsmusic.com/violins.html#HC) which was recommended
in Strad magazine.
Our returns policy is quite good; if you decide not to keep the
instrument, you can return it for a full refund, no questions asked.
We are also offering trade up for the step-in instrument you may wish
to purchase in the future, and will apply the full value of your
current purchase to the purchase price of the step-up. We can always
use the instrument in our studio here in New Mexico.
Please write me privately or call us on our 800 number.
Thanks,
Connie
******************************
Essays - http://www.geocities.com/conniesunday/
Store - http://eastmountainsmusic.com
n m wheatley
Skylark. I was 12 at the time and too big for it, but it was sold to me
(by a local incompetent guitar shop!) as full-size, and though I had my
doubts, I thought they knew better than me.
However, the fact that the violin was 2 sizes too small, had no strings,
bridge or soundpost did nothing to dampen my enthusiasm for the violin.
(Though in retrospect, my meagre attempts at setting it up with the
cheapest metal strings, unfitted bridge and without realising that it
needed a soundpost must have sounded pretty awful!)
My second violin was another bigger Skylark, this one bought for £35 in
1995 . Slightly better and had strings and bridge, but again no
soundpost! I must be some kind of violin masochist...
After those experiences, I decided to go to an actual violin shop for my
next instrument (it even had a soundpost!), and my current instrument
(my 4th, which only cost about £400 but which I still love). But I think
I am proof that however bad the instrument, it need not be a deterrent
to playing - after all, it doesn't get much worse than a Skylark with no
setup, and at the time I didn't even think it sounded bad!
At some point, I want to get my little Skylark set up really well, just
to see what it's like, as it holds a special place in my heart as my
first instrument.
Natalie
Craig Wisted
taught piano. She tried her darnedest to get me to play something. Piano
didn't happen and neither did accordian, guitar, nor clarinet in high school
band. Her Dad, my grandpa, fixed bike and fiddles and in is younger years
played fiddle at barn dances. He had several violins around the house but
one was special, I don't know why, it just was. I ended up with two of his
violins, the "special" one and a german factory Stainer. I spent a lot of
time at Grandpa's when I was a kid. I was overhauling Sturmey Archer three
speed bikes when I was in fifth grade and I remember fixing that Stainer.
Someone brought it to grandpa's with the top split and we fixed it. I don't
know if they gave it to him or just forgot to come back and get it, but it
was still in the house when he died in 1964.
One day, around eight years ago, I tuned up one of those violins, don't
remember which one, and started playing it. My wife asked me how I could
pick up a violin and play it without having any lessons. After awhile I did
start lessons. I'm in a group with three other adult beginners and I also
fix violins for my current teacher's students. I attend the workshops in
Arizona that Ed Campbell runs which have been very helpful. I have around
six 4/4 violins in playing condition and another six or so the need some
work. This is a big benifit. I have learned the some violins will never
have really nice sounds where others can be improved and that setup can
alway be improved on most violins.
So, my first two violins were free which isn't that uncommon looking through
the replies to this original post as many seem to inherit violins from
family members. That "special" violin of my grandpa's is valued at around
$2000 but I've never has an aprasial done on it, so I didn't start out with
a student model.
Craig
"Steve & Gianna" <gianna...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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Tho X. Bui
1st violin: "Damark" special, 99.99$ (this is before ebay making it
big by a year or so). Still have it after "modification." current
state: http://home.earthlink.net/~blahx3/_images/violingreen.jpg
2nd violin: ebay, non descript, about 90$. Ugly as sin and broken
when purchased. Took it a part, regraduated top, still my main
violin. Beautiful voice--wish I could duplicate it!!
3rd violin: ebay special, about 120$. Re-finish and sold:
http://home.earthlink.net/~blahx3/_images/violinPAnderson.jpg
4th violin: ebay special, about 150$. Re-built, re-finish and sold
5th violin: picked it up in up in an antique store for 75$.
functionally-restored, and still have it:
http://home.earthlink.net/~blahx3/_images/violincarlobergonzi.jpg
6th violin: home made. still have it:
http://home.earthlink.net/~blahx3/_images/pawprints.jpg
7th violin: home made, Savart model. still have it:
http://home.earthlink.net/~blahx3/_images/violinsavart02.jpg
In between these major ones, there are few others:
8 th violin: experimental. Since then has been canibalized:
http://home.earthlink.net/~blahx3/_images/violin-kit.jpg
9 th violin: experimental. Same fate:
http://home.earthlink.net/~blahx3/_images/violinexperiment.jpg
10 th violin: maestro electric. 250$. Still have it...being modified
with active electronics:
http://www.musicyo.com/product_specs.asp?pf_id=160
11 th violin: currently being constructed, an acoustic model, made
from a very small piece of maple (24" x 5.5" x 3/4").
Tho
cj...@yahoo.com
> up. I'm trying to find out what people actually did, rather than what
> they think the right price points are!
First fiddle was a POS factory chunk of unresonant plywood with
painted purfling, a rental which was later purchased with rental
credit. My parents still have it around somewhere. I held it in one
hand and my current violin in the other and discovered that it weighs
a *ton*. I'm terribly grateful to them for buying it and I think it
might be worth something as firewood.
Second was a 1967 Berger, bought in 1988 for $2400, sold in 1998 for
$4500.
--
C
Tho X. Bui
> painted purfling, a rental which was later purchased with rental
> credit. My parents still have it around somewhere. I held it in one
> hand and my current violin in the other and discovered that it weighs
> a *ton*. I'm terribly grateful to them for buying it and I think it
> might be worth something as firewood.
It's unlikely that it is plywood. Plywood is usually found in larger
inexpensive instruments, e.g., cello, 2xbass, guitar. This is because
a big piece of quarter sawn solid wood is much more expensive than the
tooling needed to press veneers together to make plywood.
On the small instruments, e.g., violin, viola, it's cheaper to carve
the plates out of solid wood. You only need a piece of wood that's
about 4.5" wide, and suitable (albeit, not optimal) wood is readily
available at your local lumber yard/home center.
To make the carving process inexpensive, the manufacturer usually
leaves the plate rather thick, and not carefully "graduate" the
thickness. Hence the weight.
Tho
PeteSchug
bla...@earthlink.net wrote on 10/27/03 1:19 PM:
[snip]
>
> To make the carving process inexpensive, the manufacturer usually
> leaves the plate rather thick, and not carefully "graduate" the
> thickness. Hence the weight.
>
>
> Tho
On some of the least expensive old european instruments (modern ones are
machine carved) the inside of the top often had the gouge marks left as is,
and an integral bass bar, that is one carved out of the wood of the top
rather than glued in after smoothing and graduation.
I've never seen one like that, but I have seen photos. I am much to lazy to
put a lot of work into restoring/improving a hunk of junk. I'd rather buy
really good wood and start from scratch.
Pete
Steve & Gianna
incredible! I've graduated some and made really nice fiddles.
Surprisingly, the outside work is often OK. The inside of the back is
often finished nicely, too, but with no particular graduation scheme.
PeteSchug
gianna...@yahoo.com wrote on 10/27/03 5:44 PM:
> Pete, I've seen plenty of the carved rough tops. Some of the wood is
> incredible! I've graduated some and made really nice fiddles.
> Surprisingly, the outside work is often OK. The inside of the back is
> often finished nicely, too, but with no particular graduation scheme.
>
>
My best guess is that the back is smooth because you can see it through the
ff holes. I think these violins were made as fast as possible with attention
only to the things that helped sell them. That includes a low price as a
selling point.
I've got what looks like an inexpensive machine carved violin that is made
of pretty nice wood, both top and bottom, with well flamed ribs and only the
neck is less than really well flamed. It also sounds good as long as I leave
the kludgy looking, exceedingly thick bridge on.
I am fairly sure that if I peek inside the top will be smooth, since the
edge work has that el cheapo machine carved look.
Pete
cj...@yahoo.com
> cj...@yahoo.com wrote in message
> > First fiddle was a POS factory chunk of unresonant plywood with
> > painted purfling, a rental which was later purchased with rental
> > credit. My parents still have it around somewhere. I held it in one
> > hand and my current violin in the other and discovered that it weighs
> > a *ton*. I'm terribly grateful to them for buying it and I think it
> > might be worth something as firewood.
>
> It's unlikely that it is plywood.
Yes, I know. I was being hyperbolic, in an attempt to be amusing. :-)
I'm easily annoyed on this particular issue this week. Two of my
middle school students have acquired new instruments without bothering
to ask my opinion. One showed up with a Knilling, the other with a
Young Chang... <head banging commences>
--
C
Zion Hill
like Sears used to sell. Good quality wood, Eastern European made. Still
have it.
I now make all my own instruments. I make a much better quality violin for
$450 in materials than I could ever afford to buy.
I also made a viola. It's a nice big 16-1/2" mother. It sounds like a cello
under your chin.
Karl Perry
> up. I'm trying to find out what people actually did, rather than what
> they think the right price points are!
My first instrument I can't remember. My first good violin is the one I
still play, it's a 1906 Francis Savois that my parents bought for about $250
in 1975. I've been told it's actually a German factory violin, but it
sounds pretty good.
I've had people tell me it's worth around $2,500 today.
Karl Perry