Help: What kind of glue to use on violin?

[ga...@magna.com.au]

Dear Violin Gluers,

Please do not use 'clear epoxy cement' gluing the 'Neck Joint to the
Copus' or in any other part on the instrument!

Please!
Please!
Please!
Make everyone lives easier!
Thank you

Gabor Balogh Master Violin Maker & Restorer
(21 years in correcting the mistakes of unprofessional 'gluers' using
artificial glues - costing for the current owner, not ot the offender)

George Thomas Wrote:

>You asked some questions concerning violins and glue.

>1. The best glue to use is hide glue - as stated in at least one
>reply to your posting. However, good quality hide glue is very
>difficult to find, it is no longer made in the US and most of what you
>can find is imported from Asia or South America and is of the poorest
>quality. Never go to Handy Dan, Builders Square of Hobby Lobby and
>buy the "Franklin" brand of hide glue they sell. It is terrible,
>smells like a road kill and will not work, period, for making musical
>instrument.

>So what is the ansewer - Very simple you use hide glue that most
>people do not know is hide glue - that being to use Knox Gelatin, not
>Jello!!! But Knox Gelatin (Knox Unflavored for Recipes). You can buy
>the stuff at any grocery store and I mean any! The stuff comes in a
>little orange box of three small packages and each will make two
>ounces of the best quality hide glue.

>Here is the Receipe to make glue from the Gelatin:

>Need items: One (1) small baby bottle - Recommend the 4 Ounce
>Plastic that have the neatest little animals all printed on the side.
>The important thing is that the bottle has graduations on it to let
>you see how much water you add. That is all that is needed.

>Nice to have items: Go to Sears-Roebuck - or perhaps look in the
>garage, depending on how old you are and if you have children or not.
>What you will get is a baby bottle warmer. The kind that boils water
>due to the conductance of the water. You know what I mean here?
>Just like the electric hot rollers you wife probably has in the
>bathroom, the ones she puts into her hair each and every morning.
>The bottle warmer you need will hold one baby bottle, it plugs into
>100 volts and you add a little bit of water to the inside of the
>little boiling pot, then set the baby bottle into it. If you still
>don't understand then go to Sears and ask the lady in the Baby Items
>Department to show you what I have described. The bottle warmer will
>cost you about 7 to 10 dollars at the most.

>To Make the Glue:

>Add Two Ounces of "Very Hot" water to the bottle - I use the water
>direct from the tap. I also always rinse the bottle with the hot
>water to ensure that the water is as hot as I can get it. No you
>don't need to boil the water on the stove or in the microwave, just
>good and hot is plenty fine.

>Now take one of the small packets of Knox Gelatin and slowly pour it
>into the bottle - it will float on the surface and slowly dissolve as
>it "hydrates". Let it all settle to the bottom of the bottle. At
>first the liquid will be cloudy, because the gelatin will foam just a
>little as it dissolves in the water. Let it set for a few more
>minuites then take a small artists paint brush, I use a 1/2 inch wide
>brush and stir the liquid to get it to all be of even consistence.
>It will have a consistency of water! Very liquid, not gooey, not
>stiff, just a clear liquid that looks like water.

>This is the glue!!! It is the best money can buy, absolutely the
>best. So good in fact that if you get really hungary you can eat it!

>This glue is the strongest glue that you can buy - stronger even than
>any carpenters or wood glue that is available at the builders or
>woodworkers stores.

>Do not get the least concerned that it looks like water, just remember
>it is the best. This glue has been tested by a number of national
>standards bureaus and engineering schools. Tensil tests of wood
>joints made with this glue are much stronger than any other glue.

>The best thing about this glue is that it is water soluable and not
>just for a few minutes - it is water soluable forever - and I mean
>forever.

>The fact that this glue is water soluable is desireable for violin
>makers because it allows the repair man to take the instrument apart
>and fix it.

>Concerning the Neck Joint to the Copus:

>The neck of all "old" violins is joined to the copus using hide glue.

>That was the normal thing back then because hide glue was just about
>the only kind of glue that was available. So the old makers used the
>best they had and that was hide.

>The Neck Joint to the Copus is perhaps the most stressed joint on the
>fiddle. It is clear to me that the old makers if they had had a
>better glue than hide that they certainly would have used it,
>therefore, I use the clear epoxy cement. The kind that has a 2000
>pound tensile strength. The quick set is best. It allows you to
>set the neck and then after about an hour continue to work on the
>instrument.

>Sure I can hear a hundred people say don't do it, but I tell you that
>it is best to use an epoxy based cement on the neck. You will never
>have to worry about the neck coming loose from the copus.

>More pointers on the Knox Gelatin Glue:

>The cost of 2 ounces of glue is only 40 cents or so. That means that
>you can make up a new batch every time you get ready to do glue work.

>However, if you are concerned about throwing it out, then you can add
>a preservative - 1/4 of a standard adult dosage aspirin.

>The aspirin will not effect the glue at all - plus if you get a head
>ache then drink the glue!!! hehehhe

>Now after you use the glue, while it is still hot of course - then you
>will let it set on the bench and after it cools off it becomes a big
>glob of gelatin in the bottle. It is not ruined. This is the
>purpose of the bottle warmer. Put the bottle with the now congealed
>glue into the bottlewarmer, add just a little bit of water to the
>"bottle warmer" (not to the glue), and allow the bottle warmer to heat
>the glue up to a nice hot temperature. It will become liquid, again
>with the consistency of water. You can do this as many times as you
>need to.

>The only caution is - If you don't add the asprin and you let the glue
>set for a couple of days, it has a tendency to become a very nice
>bacterial culture. Be very careful with this stuff, it could kill
>you since you do not know what kind of bacteria is in the glue. If
>it has a few little clumps of bacteria growing on it - then throw it
>out. Sterilize you bottle and make up a new batch.

>Oh yes, if you really are dedicated to saving the glue, then you can
>do two things:

>1. Put it in the freezer and freeze it! It will thaw out after
>just a few minutes in the bottle warmer.

>2. Add the aspirin and then once a day, even if you have no plans
>to make a glue joint, then turn on the bottle warmer and heat the glue
>up to boiling temperature.

>Either method works fine Using the boiling method does not piss off
>the wife when she finds you stuff hidden in her freezer.

>If you are looking for the best book ever written about making violins
>then get the following books:

>"The Technique of Violin Making"
>"Amature Fiddle Makers Q & A" (Note: Q& A = Questions & Answers)
>"A Luthier's Scrap Book"

>These books were written by Mr. Harry Wake who lives in San Diego,
>California and is a member of a number of violin makers societies.

>These books are available from:

>International Luthiers Supply
>Tulsa, OK

>I buy a lot of stuff from these people. They have the best prices
>and the best quality products of any of the other suppliers that I
>have used, and I have used a lot of them

>If you have any more questions, feel free to e-mail them to me:

>At

>gth...@rocketmail.come

>Sincerely
>George Thomas