pizzicato harmonics
Chuckk Hubbard
pluck halfway between there and the bridge.
What about cello, viola, violin? One person was able to refer me to
Stravinsky, Soldier's Tale, for an instance of pizz harmonic on
contrabass. Nothing else I can find.
According to Adler, artificial harmonics are not hard for strings. Of
course the agility would be reduced, but is this true? He also says
up to the 7th or 8th harmonic is realistic. How realistic? I want to
use the 7th harmonic. It's out of tune, sure, but can you hear
anything? This is a quartet situation so it needn't be really loud.
What about spiccato on harmonics? Can the string be allowed to
continue to vibrate after one smack?
I need to get my own violin. My teacher wants me to befriend a
violinist from nearby Curtis, but they're likely to just tell me 'no'
in response to the things I'm asking for rather than trying them.
Incidentally, I tuned my 5-string banjo to the 5th, 7th, 9th, and 11th
harmonics. It sounds wicked. All 5 strings hit together sounds like
the noise of a ventilation system. I can play the theme to my piece
on the harmonics of the retuned strings.
Thanks for your advice,
Chuckk
Denzil and Michelle Hathway
"Chuckk Hubbard" <BadMuth...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e257d2fd.04012...@posting.google.com...
> What's it sound like? Touch the string where the 8ve would be and
> pluck halfway between there and the bridge.
Sounds like sh.t. The amount of energy delivered to the string by one pluck
(pizz) with the string lightly stopped for either a natural or artificial
harmonic is insufficient for the string to develop nodes and emit a musical
frequency for sufficient time for the resonator (body) of the violin (or
whatever) to pick it up andemit a tone you can hear. All you would hear is
an unamplified thunk from the string itself.
> What about cello, viola, violin? One person was able to refer me to
> Stravinsky, Soldier's Tale, for an instance of pizz harmonic on
> contrabass. Nothing else I can find.
These instruments were not built for the stunts you would have them do.
Invent your own.
> According to Adler, artificial harmonics are not hard for strings. Of
> course the agility would be reduced, but is this true? He also says
> up to the 7th or 8th harmonic is realistic. How realistic? I want to
> use the 7th harmonic. It's out of tune, sure, but can you hear
> anything? This is a quartet situation so it needn't be really loud.
Use a bow.
> What about spiccato on harmonics? Can the string be allowed to
> continue to vibrate after one smack?
Same answer as in the first paragraph.
> I need to get my own violin. My teacher wants me to befriend a
> violinist from nearby Curtis, but they're likely to just tell me 'no'
> in response to the things I'm asking for rather than trying them.
I'm afraid you're asking the impossible old chap. Why don't you approach an
acoustician, not a musician.
Denzil.
Roland Hutchinson
> What's it sound like? Touch the string where the 8ve would be and
> pluck halfway between there and the bridge.
>
> What about cello, viola, violin? One person was able to refer me to
> Stravinsky, Soldier's Tale, for an instance of pizz harmonic on
> contrabass. Nothing else I can find.
IIRC, the orchestral viola part of the suite from Pulcinella has pizzicato
natural harmonics in it. You have to be quite careful about where you
pluck the string for these (the usual place that one plucks, just over the
fingerboard, is dab smack on top of a node!). Watch out for Stravinsky's
notation though; he has at least one passage in bowed natural harmonics
(the one for for solo viola) notated completely incorrectly and
indecipherably in this piece!
What orchestration textbooks have you consulted? (That's the first place I
would go to look for lists of further examples.)
--
Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.
NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it.
Young_carpenter
And I don't totally agree.
I have heard Pizz harmonics
A good violinist can make them
My opinion is that they kinda sound funky when used in certain situations.
--
"Denzil and Michelle Hathway" <hat...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:yziRb.177$1O.78@fed1read05...
Ken Moore
<hat...@cox.net> writes
>"Chuckk Hubbard" <BadMuth...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:e257d2fd.04012...@posting.google.com...
>> What's it sound like? Touch the string where the 8ve would be and
>> pluck halfway between there and the bridge.
>
>Sounds like sh.t. The amount of energy delivered to the string by one pluck
>(pizz) with the string lightly stopped for either a natural or artificial
>harmonic is insufficient for the string to develop nodes and emit a musical
>frequency for sufficient time for the resonator (body) of the violin (or
>whatever) to pick it up andemit a tone you can hear. All you would hear is
>an unamplified thunk from the string itself.
>
>> What about cello, viola, violin? One person was able to refer me to
>> Stravinsky, Soldier's Tale, for an instance of pizz harmonic on
>> contrabass. Nothing else I can find.
>
>These instruments were not built for the stunts you would have them do.
>Invent your own.
No need to invent anything. My daughter uses plucked harmonics
regularly on her (electric) bass guitar, and makes a beautiful sound.
You could probably get an adequate sound by putting a pick-up on any
instrument of the violin family. Without one, the double bass, with
heavy strings lightly damped, would be the best bet; but even this would
give a rather quiet note after a loud thump.
>> According to Adler, artificial harmonics are not hard for strings. Of
>> course the agility would be reduced, but is this true? He also says
>> up to the 7th or 8th harmonic is realistic. How realistic? I want to
>> use the 7th harmonic. It's out of tune, sure, but can you hear
>> anything? This is a quartet situation so it needn't be really loud.
>
>Use a bow.
With a bow, I have produced the ninth harmonic on my double bass. I
damp at two places*. E.g. on the A string, I damp at the E and G
positions (a convenient stretch between 1st and 4th finger) and get the
B a major 16th above the open string. It is slightly sharp to equal
temperament, but better than the 5th harmonic of the G string, which is
noticeably flat. Artificial harmonics are not practical on these long
strings, however, unless you have hands like Rakhmaninov's.
* (1) A general rule for harmonics: the note produced will be on the
harmonic series of the notes at the stopped and all the damped
positions, and will usually be the lowest such note.
(2) A practical recommendation for odd harmonics on open strings:
damping towards the middle of the string requires less precision than
near the ends. E.g. Schoenberg's notation for the bass harmonics that
start the slow movement of the chamber symphony, where he indicates
damping at the major sixth: F# on the A string produces the required C#
just as effectively as the obvious C# does.
--
Ken Moore
K.C....@reading.ac.uk
pg composition student, University of Reading
J. Teske
I encountered my first pizzacato harmonic this past fall in a concert
I played. I don't remember exactly which piece it was in, but I think
it was in an orchestral piece by Ravel. We did four Ravel works on
that concert...Pavane pour une infante defunct and Bolero are the two
least likely for a pizz harmonic to occur. The other two pieces we did
were
Alborado del Gracioso and Tzigane. Since the parts were rental, they
of course have been long ago returned and I don't have access to a
score.
Is anyone familiar with the scores of those works. I know that I had
to ask our concertmistress how to do it. (Answer, same as a bowed
harmonic...I thought the resultant sound was underwhelming.)
Jon Teske
Roland Hutchinson
> I know that I had
> to ask our concertmistress how to do it. (Answer, same as a bowed
> harmonic...I thought the resultant sound was underwhelming.)
That's not the right answer, though! You really, really have to pay
attention to where you pluck the string (depending on which harmonic it is
you are playing). If you take care not to pluck on or near a node, you can
get a pretty nice ringing sound -- not quite as clear as a guitar harmonic,
but definitely headed in that direction. For preference, pluck on or near
an antinode. If you pluck near a node, it will hardly make a pitched sound
at all.
DGoree
with are the natural octaves.
It isn't only *where* you pluck; there is some timing involved as well. You
need to pull your left hand finger off the string immediately after
(practically simultaneously with) the pizz. If you do this correctly, it will
sound almost like a harp ringing.
Mary Ellen
Chuckk Hubbard
> "Chuckk Hubbard" <BadMuth...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e257d2fd.04012...@posting.google.com...
> > What's it sound like? Touch the string where the 8ve would be and
> > pluck halfway between there and the bridge.
>
> Sounds like sh.t. The amount of energy delivered to the string by one pluck
> (pizz) with the string lightly stopped for either a natural or artificial
> harmonic is insufficient for the string to develop nodes and emit a musical
> frequency for sufficient time for the resonator (body) of the violin (or
> whatever) to pick it up andemit a tone you can hear. All you would hear is
> an unamplified thunk from the string itself.
_Pizzicato Harmonics_
A pizzicato can also be used to generate a harmonic. The harmonic may
be open or stopped, although the open version produces a clearer
pitch. The pizzicato harmonic has two considerations. If a more
resonant sound is the object, the left-hand finger must be released
from the string immediately. In 'Eleven Echoes of Autumn,1965', Crumb
wants each pizzicato harmonic to ring, so they must be played like a
guitar harmonic. The left-hand finger is released immediately after
the string is plucked. Some of the more difficult harmonic pizzicati,
such as a stopped harmonic pizzicato, will have a clearer pitch if
they are plucked closer to the bridge. Of course, any of the
pizzicato techniques covered in chapter 2 can be applied to harmonics.
-The Contemporary Violin: Extended Performance Techniques
by Patricia Strange and Allen Strange
Our school has the score for the Crumb piece, and it is indeed
pizzicato harmonics.
>
> > What about cello, viola, violin? One person was able to refer me to
> > Stravinsky, Soldier's Tale, for an instance of pizz harmonic on
> > contrabass. Nothing else I can find.
>
> These instruments were not built for the stunts you would have them do.
> Invent your own.
Of course, but in the meantime we're having a string quartet come this
semester.
>
> > According to Adler, artificial harmonics are not hard for strings. Of
> > course the agility would be reduced, but is this true? He also says
> > up to the 7th or 8th harmonic is realistic. How realistic? I want to
> > use the 7th harmonic. It's out of tune, sure, but can you hear
> > anything? This is a quartet situation so it needn't be really loud.
>
> Use a bow.
I was talking about using a bow. The 7th harmonic is important to my
mode.
>
> > What about spiccato on harmonics? Can the string be allowed to
> > continue to vibrate after one smack?
>
> Same answer as in the first paragraph.
I forgot to copy this part from the book.
>
> > I need to get my own violin. My teacher wants me to befriend a
> > violinist from nearby Curtis, but they're likely to just tell me 'no'
> > in response to the things I'm asking for rather than trying them.
>
> I'm afraid you're asking the impossible old chap. Why don't you approach an
> acoustician, not a musician.
I'm asking the unconventional.
-Chuckk
The Devil's Interval
at BadMuth...@hotmail.com wrote on 1/27/04 4:51 PM:
> Our school has the score for the Crumb piece, and it is indeed
> pizzicato harmonics.
Where do you go to school, if you don't mind saying? I noticed you are near
to Curtis. Are you at school in Philadelphia?
Karen
Chuckk Hubbard
Yes, University of the Arts on Broad. Philly native?
-Chuckk
>
> Karen
JLHughes
>
> A pizzicato can also be used to generate a harmonic. The harmonic may
> be open or stopped, although the open version produces a clearer
> pitch. The pizzicato harmonic has two considerations. If a more
> resonant sound is the object, the left-hand finger must be released
> from the string immediately. In 'Eleven Echoes of Autumn,1965', Crumb
> wants each pizzicato harmonic to ring, so they must be played like a
> guitar harmonic. The left-hand finger is released immediately after
> the string is plucked. Some of the more difficult harmonic pizzicati,
> such as a stopped harmonic pizzicato, will have a clearer pitch if
> they are plucked closer to the bridge. Of course, any of the
> pizzicato techniques covered in chapter 2 can be applied to harmonics.
>
> -The Contemporary Violin: Extended Performance Techniques
> by Patricia Strange and Allen Strange
Hi. (Speaking as a contemporary cellist,) I just want to add that all
natural harmonic pizzicati on the cello sound best using the harp
technique: using JUST the left hand, place the side of the thumb on
the node, and then pluck with (usually) the third finger. In the act
of plucking, remove the thumb (as the Stranges suggest above). If you
get the timing right, a clear bell-like pizzicato will result. Where
they suggest "will have a clearer pitch if they are plucked closer to
the bridge" (and they mean tone, really, not pitch) you can read
"...plucked about 5cm from a node", the most convenient being the one
your finger is on.
The use of the thumb means upper strings don't have the benefit of
this. The cello's longer string length also means these are easier to
produce anyway: I suggest that you give the louder ones to the cello.
Oh, and be prepared for complaints. This is not core technique, and
requires some practise to get it consistent...
Good luck
J.
The Devil's Interval
I teach at Penn (not music) and was just idly curious. One of my students
this semester is a recent transfer from University of the Arts. I gather you
are studying composition?
Karen
Chuckk Hubbard
> >
> > Yes, University of the Arts on Broad. Philly native?
> >
> > -Chuckk
> >
> >>
> >> Karen
>
> I teach at Penn (not music) and was just idly curious. One of my students
> this semester is a recent transfer from University of the Arts. I gather you
> are studying composition?
Yup. We're having a chess tournament Saturday, woohoo.
-Chuckk