Purchasing a cello....
David Scarlett
and am interested in buying my own....
The owner of the music school said "Skylarks" are of reasonable
quality, and I would probably be best off getting one and putting some
good strings on it, and then maybe getting a better bow later on if I
want to improve the sound.
Anyone have any other comments/recommendations?
Thanks.
--
David Scarlett
dscarlett@_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ optusnet.com.au
PeteSchug
lo...@my.signature wrote on 2/15/03 12:03 AM:
> I've been playing the cello for a few months now using a rental cello,
> and am interested in buying my own....
>
> The owner of the music school said "Skylarks" are of reasonable
> quality, and I would probably be best off getting one and putting some
> good strings on it, and then maybe getting a better bow later on if I
> want to improve the sound.
>
> Anyone have any other comments/recommendations?
>
> Thanks.
>
I don't have a lot of experience with Skylarks, but I did repair one
(violin) for somebody a while back and between that and their reputation I
would avoid the brand.
The woman I repaired the Skylark for (neck came loose) was prepaired to buy
a new instrument and she hadn't even started to play. I did some setup work
on it also, and at least it was usable when I was done. My fingers got dirty
turning the dyed tuning pegs!
The popular nickname for the Skylark is "Red Screamer." If I had no other
instrument to play I would use one, but I would not go out and actually
spend money on one. The woman who owned it bought it because it was
inexpensive. Personally I would describe it as cheap, and whoever did the
final assembly knew NOTHING about violins or their function. The holes in
the brand new pegs were off center in the wrong direction with the peg holes
almost at the wall of the pegbox! It is wise to make the holes in the pegs
off center since as the pegs wear the holes move, but these were drilled off
center in the wrong direction! I drilled new holes in the pegs since at
least one peg already had the string touching the innner wall of the peg
box. The bridge had never been trimmed from full height, and the nut was WAY
too high, and made of a black painted white wood, so I deepened the grooves
for the strings, but could not trim the nut since I would have had to paint
it if I did. I could have replaced the nut, but I started out just cleaning
and regluing the neck but found that I had to begin by resetting the neck
position before regluing and along with all the other problems decided that
I would never get done if I started replacing parts.
I gained a surprising amount of experience from one small repair that I
though was going to be a simple job of cleaning off the old glue and just
sticking the neck back on.
Maybe it was just a poor fiddle that got past the quality inspectors!
More likely, if it looks like a fiddle it is a fiddle in their book, and if
you never looked at a fiddle before, it did look like a fiddle, in fact it
was shiney, had the right shape and color and could be played. As for the
sound I can say while not good, at least wasn't as bad as you might expect.
BTW, most of the neck joint was not in contact with the mortice, which is
why it came apart in the first place, and also why I went to the trouble of
resetting the neck on a brand new instrument.
It had been bought out of the country a couple of years ago, so there was no
possibility of confronting the dealer with a fiddle whose neck came loose.
That's what I get for sitting in on a friend's beginning fiddle class. The
neck apparently came loose when my friend tried to tune this thing for her
student. The fingerboard was lying on the body, with the strings at playing
tension and I knew what that loud, woody pop I heard was as soon as I saw
it.
As I said, I have only had experience with one Skylark, but it was a lot of
experience in a small amount of time.
Pete
--
Check out my fiddle making site
http://home.att.net/~PeteSchug/
Steve & Gianna
can suggest these models:
Palatino "Allegro" VC-750 at an absolute minimum. List is $695 for
the outfit, look for about 3/4 of that retail + new strings (expensive
- about $80 for Helicores) , it will need setup, but that should be in
the price, although good strings won't be. So buy from a small shop
with personal attention.
Palatino "Dolce" would be lots better at $859 list (oil varnish,
better bow." This is really the minimum I sort of recommend.
MUCH better and actually sounding and playing well enough for me to
use forever is the Johannes Kohr K500. Just the cello is listed at
$1659. An outfit should be available for $1500. That's what we sell
them at, anyway, with a good bag and decent student brazilwood bow.
The Eastman line offers an alternative. The VC100 outfit is quite
workable at $950 list. These work very well.
The VC200 is quite nicely flamed and does sound a little better. List
is $1270 for the cello.
Our benchmark cello here is the antiqued VC305 at $1700 list, although
we generally sell them for $1800 for a NICE outfit with excellent
setup.
We also bring in Bulgarian work and Czech work, but you're looking at
$3000 and up.
Sometimes I get seconds that are quite nice buys, but I only call for
cellos on request.
I trust that gives you some idea of the cello price ranges that we've
found necessary to hold to for ensuring proper setup and durability.
Steve Perry
Michael Alvarez
"Steve & Gianna" <gianna...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:phbs4v0u29g10d3eb...@4ax.com...
> I would avoid the Skylarks. Based on the quality of the violins, I
> can suggest these models:
<snip>
My acoustic cello is a student model Kay. How are these regarded? My Dad
bought it second hand back around 1977 for $150.00. I've had it set up to
my liking, and I really do feel that it plays and sounds wonderfully.
But ever since I've gone electric...well...I only haul out the old Kay every
now and then.
Thanks!
Mike
Steve & Gianna
cello for a while!
Michael Alvarez
> Kays are generally marginal. They work fine until one borrows a good
> cello for a while!
Thanks! I kind of figured that if somebody was letting it go for $150.00,
even back in '78, then that was probably the case. But I've become so
attuned to its feel and sound, that I think it brings out the best in ME.
I recall a discussion that was going on at a guitar newsgroup in which
somebody asked what constitutes a "professional-level" instrument.
Somebody's response was: "The person holding it!"
Made me laugh, but it also made me think too.
Mike
Steve & Gianna
>I recall a discussion that was going on at a guitar newsgroup in which
>somebody asked what constitutes a "professional-level" instrument.
>
>Somebody's response was: "The person holding it!"
>
>Made me laugh, but it also made me think too.
I usually consder a professional level instrument as one that meets
the standards of the average working professional in a small orchestra
or regional setting. The big orchestras tend to get fancy. I rely on
local professionals to help me get calibrated. What is professional
varies by genre of course.
For classical cello, I find people love the K500 Kohr cello if
they're relatively cheap or as a backup cello. Many advanced students
seem to run them. I heard Wesley Baldwin play one and comment very
favorably at how close it was to his cello in performance (an $80,000
cello). So I usually recommend those or the VC305 Eastman for a step
up instrument. They are quite reasonably priced. I've enjoyed all
the ones we've had through here.
For my own personal instruments, I find that I soon gravitate towards
a certain level of machine that is more or less at the professional
level. The "1a grand master" classical guitars work better for me.
Luthier-built acoustics do more for me than trade (factory) guitars.
In violins, I usually play either one of our products or an 1860 Luigi
Fabris (quite nice). And so on.
One thing I notice is that once I have a client buy a professional
level instrument I don't see them much. Often someone will trade
commercial "advanced" instruments for a while, then take my advice and
get one a couple of steps up. Then they're finally happy!
Steve
Michael Alvarez
> >
> >I recall a discussion that was going on at a guitar newsgroup in which
> >somebody asked what constitutes a "professional-level" instrument.
> >
> >Somebody's response was: "The person holding it!"
> >
> >Made me laugh, but it also made me think too.
>
> I usually consder a professional level instrument as one that meets
> the standards of the average working professional in a small orchestra
> or regional setting. The big orchestras tend to get fancy. I rely on
> local professionals to help me get calibrated. What is professional
> varies by genre of course.
The thought occurred to me: Would you rather hear Yo-Yo Ma play MY cello?
Or would you rather hear me playing HIS?
Trust me--go with the first choice!
There's no chance I'll ever be asked to play in an orchestra, but I'm having
a lots of fun doing rock gigs. Get the rhythm section going, and take off
running!
Tho X. Bui
Michael Alvarez wrote:
>
> There's no chance I'll ever be asked to play in an orchestra, but I'm having
> a lots of fun doing rock gigs. Get the rhythm section going, and take off
> running!
You may not ever "get asked" to play in an orchestra, but it's not too
hard to get into _an_ orchestra.
I suspect that there are many community orchestras that would pretty
much accept any string players who is willing to work hard. All you
need to do is ask.
I jokingly tell people that our orchestra's only requirement is that you
can absorb oxigen and release carbon dioxide, but the truth is that
unlike the case with guitar players, there aren't that many skillful and
experienced string players out there. As a result, most amateur
orchestras are very willing to "invest in the future."
Tho
Michael Alvarez
"Tho X. Bui" <bla...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3E4F3FA0...@earthlink.net...
>
> I jokingly tell people that our orchestra's only requirement is that you
> can absorb oxigen and release carbon dioxide,
BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!
uh, I can do that...
Thanks for the late night chuckle Tho.
Mike
J. Teske
We string players have essentially a "sellers" market. They require so
many of us that at the amateur level the demand is greater than the
supply. In my orchestras, wind and brass slots are highly competitive.
Vacancies are infrequent and players know that if attendance starts to
be a problem they will be replaced. Strings OTOH, we really do have
to invest in the future. Those of us with a reasonable degree of skill
do have to subtlely suggest means of improvement to less skilled
players. It is unfortunate, that among violins there is such a thing
as 2nd violin. Musically, the part is often just as important as the
first violin part. I have even advocated in my orchestra some
interchange between the normal 1st and 2nd violins, but I have met
with some resistance from conductors since their view is that many of
our 2nd violinists cannot play the really high parts. One thing we do
though is to put stronger players on the outside chairs to carry some
of the less skilled players.
The oxygen and carbon dioxide arguement has some merit although as one
of my orchestras has grown (we are now at 83 members) we are becoming
more selective with new string members and actually have dismissed a
couple of present members.
Jon Teske, violinist
PeteSchug
amazing to me. In NYC we used to have the High School of Music and Art,
which was a premium school to get into. None of the violin players I knew
made it, but a few wind players who I didn't think were very did get in.
My guess is that at the time half the kids from affluent, intellegent
families played violin or piano and there was a shortage of trumpet players
and no oboe players whatsoever! The school could pick and choose string
players from all over the city. I wonder what happened to all those guys I
knew who failed the auditions?
Pete
in article oqkv4vcb261dajh0p...@4ax.com, J. Teske at
jdt...@comcast.net wrote on 2/16/03 1:16 PM:
Beach
There happens to be a luthier in our orchestra, who has 4 cellos and is
interested in selling 3 of them so his wife doesn't murder him. Grab one
at cost of materials He will of course sell them with full
approval/returnning rights.
They are made of first rate woods, hand carved, by a fine craftsman.
He only needs $1000 for one. They are easily worth 3 x that.
I have nothing to get out of it.
b...@iu.net
Bob Comarow
Kendrick Pereira
I have a Skylark cello and agree with your teacher that it is of reasonable quality. That said, Skylark cellos vary widely and some are much more successful than others. They vary not only in quality (i.e. good vs poor) but in character, some being sweet-toned or even quite beautiful, dark or bright in tone, buzzy or not &c. &c.. The moral of the story is never buy (or dismiss) a cello based on brand name. Get someone who knows something about it to accompany you to the shop to try out the instrument. Perhaps your teacher would oblige. It would be worthwhile to, for instance, pay for a lesson and use the time for this.
My Skylark is 3/4 size which I was told by a luthier is the most frequently successful size of this brand. He was also impressed by the way this particular instrument played, judging it almost equal to one of his own for which the asking price was a multiple of what I had paid (about 5 times - I had not bought the cello from him).
Just one final warning, the top plate of my cello consists of two pieces of wood glued together. As one can imagine this gives rise to widely varying results. In at least twenty years of (moderate) use there has been no sign of the top plate of my cello dividing. Strings and(particularly) bow make a significant difference. Also, get someone else to listen for wolf tones - but your teacher will know to do this.