Cleaning old violin
Rick
basicly just crudded up with dirt and dust. I don't want to use
anything that will harm the varnish. There are many places that the
varnish is scratched or chipped off. Whatever I use would probably
absorb into these spots in the wood and I wouldn't want to hurt the
sound quality. I know I could take it to a professional for a cleaning
and setup but this would take the fun out of it.
Thanks for any help,
Rick B.
cjt&trefoil
>
> Rick (rbu...@erienet.net) wrote:
> : Any advise on cleaning and or polishing an old dusty violin?
<snip>
>
> If you are looking for more fun you could follow the advice I read in a
> book by Yehudi Menuhin:
<snip>
> He recommends cleaning the strings with "daily rubbings of purified
> benzine followed by alcohol, or with eau-de-cologne.."
>
<snip>
Isn't benzine a carcinogen? Where would you even find it?
an.fi...@worldmail.nl
unvarnished wood
Karen Rile
: Any advise on cleaning and or polishing an old dusty violin? It is
If you are looking for more fun you could follow the advice I read in a
book by Yehudi Menuhin: "Every so often insert a small handful of uncooked
dry rice into the F holes. Shake it around inside the violin and then turn
the instrument upside down: the grains of rice will fall out of the F
holes, sometimes bringing a round ball of dust with them..."
He recommends cleaning the strings with "daily rubbings of purified
benzine followed by alcohol, or with eau-de-cologne.."
I haven't tried either of these!
Karen
Keith Rogers
> > : Any advise on cleaning and or polishing an old dusty violin?
Get some Hill cleaner and polish. Shar (http://www.sharmusic.com) or
Southwest (http://www.swstrings.com) will have it (and possibly their
own brand). Use sparingly, as they say, and let the fiddle sit out (I
stand it on its edge, or suspend it) for a day, since it's possible the
finish may be slightly softened. Do this once. Then, just keep after
it with a soft cloth every time you play (old, cotton t-shirt scraps
work).
> <snip>
> ...Yehudi Menuhin
> <snip>
> > He recommends cleaning the strings with "daily rubbings of purified
> > benzine followed by alcohol, or with eau-de-cologne.."
> >
> <snip>
>
> Isn't benzine a carcinogen? Where would you even find it?
I'm sure he meant what us yanks call gasoline. Not that I'd recommend
using it, but petroleum distillates are the base of most cleaners.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Ib Therkelsen
>
> If you are looking for more fun you could follow the advice I read in a
> book by Yehudi Menuhin: "Every so often insert a small handful of uncooked
> dry rice into the F holes. Shake it around inside the violin and then turn
> the instrument upside down: the grains of rice will fall out of the F
> holes, sometimes bringing a round ball of dust with them..."
>
> benzine followed by alcohol, or with eau-de-cologne.."
>
>
The 'rice method' for inside removal of dust is standard procedure.
Ib Therkelsen
Vicki & George Thomas
and extreme care.
The primary concern is that just about every possible cleaning agent
contains some kind of light carrier chemical that is a solvent and may
cause the varnish to completely dissolve or release from the surface of the
wood.
Two basic types of varnish have been historically used, oil based and
alcohol based. Oil based varnishes are much more "solvent resistent" than
are the alcolhol based varnishes. Ultimately what you must first do is
determine which type of varnish that your fiddle has and then use an
appropriate cleaning agent. Oil based varnishes can be cleaned with
common household polishes such as "Plege" spray wax or perhaps a "furniture
restorer" such as the Miniwax products. Also, turpentine, methanol paint
thinner, and other more harsh pure solvents can be used on oil.
Typically the white dust that is so common on the top of old fiddles is bow
rosin. Bow rosin is made from pine tree waste produced during the milling
of lumber. So is turpintine. If you look closely at the surface of the
fiddle, especially around the bride, you can determine a few things about
the varnish. If the varnish is heavily pitted and the rosin dust is
deeply imbedded into the varnish, there is a chance, that the varish is oil
based. Again looking at the varnish, if it is flakey and chippy, it is
more likely an alcohol based varnish. Oil based varnishes are typically
much more resilient, and flexible than are alcohol varnishes. The reason
for this discussion is primarily to alert you to some of the things that
the repairperson will look at before attempting any cleaning.
Even after looking and doing everything he can to improve the chances of
guessing what kind of varnish the fiddle is coated with, the repairperson
will then "test" clean a very small area to see what the impact of the
selected cleaning agent will be. Where is the best place to clean?
Well, try to pick an area where that if some minor damage is caused by the
cleaning, it will not be visible or can be easyly "touched back up". So,
take a cotton swab, dip it or spray it with the selected cleaning agent and
clean a very small spot near the heel of the neck, on the ribs, or perhaps
on the top under the edge of the fingerboard. If the fiddle is dirty and
greasy the swab will clean a spot that will be immediately visible as the
underlying varnish comes through. Just clean the surface, don't rub and
scrub, as you may remove the varish down to the bare wood. Feel the small
area you have cleaned with your finger tip. If the cleaner is dissolving
the varnish, it will be tacky or sticky, just like wet paint. If it is
not sticky, then the cleaner you have selected has a good chance of being
the right one to use to clean the remaining portions of the fiddle.
However, be safe, once you have cleaned this small spot, you have felt it
and it is not sticky, then set the fiddle to the side and wait a couple of
hours to see what the effect on the varnish is after a period of time. If
you come back in a couple of hours and the surface you cleaned feels slick
and smooth then you can clean a slightly bigger area and repeat the process
described above, feel it and set it asside to see the effects after a
couple of hours.
The key is caution and care.
Now what are some cleaning agents:
Oil Varnish: All these should be sprayed or dipped on a rag and then
applied to the fiddle, never spray them directly on the fiddle!!!!
Pledge Furniture Wax
Johnson's Paste Wax
Soap & Water
Turpentine
Methanol or Wood Alcohol Paint Thinner (extreme caution with this stuff)
Lemmon Oil Furniture Polish
WD 40
Kerosene
Alcohol Varnish Cleaners:
Soap & Water
Clean Tack Cloth
Wash cloth that has been wet, then laid in the sun to dry - this will cause
the cotton to feel "rough" to the touch and will act as a "scrub" pad, keep
in mind that this will remove some varnish.
Alert!!!
Once you remove the grease and dust from the fiddle you may not be happy.
Many old fiddles get there character because of this natural collection of
dirt! If you remove it, well the instrument may just look like a "cheap
violin", get the idea? Many production fiddles were rather plane looking
and once you get the dirt off, well the homely look is there for you to see
again.
Good luck on your efforts - Remember apply no harsh chemical solvents to
the fiddle without first conduction a small test in an location that only
you will know about.
George
Rick wrote:
> Any advise on cleaning and or polishing an old dusty violin? It is
> basicly just crudded up with dirt and dust. I don't want to use
> anything that will harm the varnish. There are many places that the
> varnish is scratched or chipped off. Whatever I use would probably
> absorb into these spots in the wood and I wouldn't want to hurt the
> sound quality. I know I could take it to a professional for a cleaning
> and setup but this would take the fun out of it.
>
Rick
Thanks for everyone who responded to my post.
Rick B.
mandgt...@cix.compulink.co.uk
It is *now* believed to be carcinogenic and for that reason you probably
*wouldn't* find it except in very specialised situations. There have been
*lots* of cleaning materials banned over the last 40 - 50 years. Carbon
tetrachloride used to be sold in the UK under the brand "Dab-it-off" but
that has been known to be carcinogenic for at least 30 years.
/\/\ark ~|~ennant
Tho X. Bui
It a linguistic problem I think. "Parafin" and "Benzene"/"Benzine"
means different things to UK and US people. I think that the original
recommendation was for what Americans call "Kerosene".
Tho
geog...@webtv.net
applied to a violin, the finish is alcohol proof when it is dry. BUT, as
the oil varnish oxidizes and polymerrizes as it ages and gets old, it
begins to become alcohol soluble. Thus, using such solvents will
dissolve the varnish and take it off the fiddle. In any case, any violin
that has been heavily caked with rosin needs a professional cleaning.
The luthier will use something like xylene. Never use it yourself
because it is very dangerous healthwise. If you have a good violin,
never attempt this job yourself. If it is only slightly dirty, then Hill
cleaning compound is fairly safe to use. G Gregory
mandgt...@cix.compulink.co.uk
wrote:
> mandgt...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> >
> > > Isn't benzine a carcinogen? Where would you even find it?
> >
> > There have been *lots* of cleaning materials banned over the last
> > 40 - 50 years.
> >
> > /\/\ark ~|~ennant
>
> It a linguistic problem I think. "Parafin" and "Benzene"/"Benzine"
> means different things to UK and US people. I think that the original
> recommendation was for what Americans call "Kerosene".
OIC
Gasoline = Petroleum spirit (petrol)
Kerosene = Paraffin
Benzene = C6H6
H
|
C
/ \\
H-C C-H
|| |
|| |
H-C C-H
\ //
C
|
H
This is the stuff *now* considered to be carcinogenic.
So what (in US English) is Benzine (with an 'i')?
Is it something to do with "super" gasoline
(Benzol) or is that something different again?
ISTR characters in early movies talking about
filling the automobile (car) with "benzine".
Francis X.
mandgt...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote in message
<7sgjes$7nu$1...@plutonium.compulink.co.uk|>
|So what (in US English) is Benzine (with an 'i')?
A spelling error.
mandgt...@cix.compulink.co.uk
th...@uoguelph.ca (Toby K Hay) wrote:
> mandgt...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> : So what (in US English) is Benzine (with an 'i')?
> : Is it something to do with "super" gasoline
> : (Benzol) or is that something different again?
>
> My wife and I were camping around Australia in the early
80s with a
> little Svea camp stove that burns what we in Canada call
white gas or
> naptha. When we tried to buy fuel there nobody had ever
heard of these
> fuels and it took several days to find out that we should
be asking for
> benzine.
>
I wonder, then, if that is what we call "white spirit" in
the UK (also called "turpentine (turps) substitute" which
is used for cleaning paint and varnish brushes.
Frank
I told a student of mine once he could clean the inside of his violin
with rice: just pour it in, shake well and pour it out...
He boiled the rice first... Ha!!!:-)))))))
David E Allen
: I wonder, then, if that is what we call "white spirit" in
: is used for cleaning paint and varnish brushes.
No. We also call (called?) it white gas in the US - basically unleaded
gasoline (way back when all gasoline was leaded) - since the camp stoves
didn't get along well with the lead.
dave allen, coloardo springs
Ian & Laurel MacCulloch
> mandgt...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote in message
> <7sgjes$7nu$1...@plutonium.compulink.co.uk|>
> |So what (in US English) is Benzine (with an 'i')?
>
> A spelling error.
Cute! I just looked both up in my "Winston Canadian Dictionary for
Schools" - the closest thing in a Canadian household to an "American"
dictionary - and the Concise Oxford English dictionary. The OED gives
the following:
benzene - an aromatic hydro-carbon got from coal-tar & represented by
derivatives in all coal-tar products (formerly, & still in trade use,
called benzol, -ole) *this is the 1954 edition.
benzine - mixture of liquid hydro-carbons got from mineral oils & used
for removing grease-stains (in trade use often called benzolene or
benzene)
benzoin - (also benjamin) fragrant aromatic resin of Javanese tree.
benzol, -ole = benzene
benzoline = benzine.
The Canadian dictionary gives the following:
benzene - a highly inflammable, colourless liquid obtained from
coal-tar, used as a motor fuel, in the manufacture of illuminating gas
and of dyes, and in other processes.
benzine - an inflammable liquid obtained from petroleum used in
cleaning, dyeing, painting etc., and as a motor fuel.
Hope this helps! Keep in mind, I don't get it either :-)
Thanks
Laurel
DB
<< Any advise on cleaning and or polishing an old dusty violin? It is
basicly just crudded up with dirt and dust. I don't want to use
anything that will harm the varnish. >>
When I was a lad my teacher told me to grind up some walnuts (like in a
blender, fairly fine. Shelled, of course.) and then place them in a square
piece of soft material and then draw up the corners and tie it together with
some twine to make a little pouch. Work the pouch with your fingers until the
oil starts to soak through and then just rub that on the fiddle to apply the
oil. Wipe off the excess when you're done. It's amazing how much grime and dust
simple walnut oil will clean off. Non-carcinogenic, cheap, no alcohol and all
natural. It leaves a beautiful shine, too.
Good luck,
Daniel