Electric bass in Bebop
Quinn Miller
I'm currently reading "Improvising Jazz" by Jerry Coker. I find the book to be very good. One thing Coker recommends is that students of jazz practice transcribing lines from recordings. He suggests that players start out trying to learn lines played by others on the same instrument, before trying to transcribe lines played by players of other instruments. My problem is this: I play electric bass. I don't play upright (though I love it dearly.) Can anyone recommend some jazz recordings that feature electric bass? I'm talking about straight ahead Bebop here, as it is quite easy to find electric bass on fusion albums. I know that Bob Cranshaw, Monk Montgomery and Steve Swallow are three of the main cats on electric bass in jazz, but can anyone recommend specific recordings that an inexperienced transcriber could reasonably tackle, or just especially noteworthy performances? I'd prefer something with some standards on it.
Thank you very much!
If you could E-mail me directly, at quinnth...@erols.com, I'd really appreciate it.
Dave Holmes
There's no reason you can't transcribe upright solos to play on
electric - same tuning, range etc. There's a ton of material out
there that would translate effortlessly to your axe.
Dave Homles
Sugarbass
it'll be fine on electric.
Bill *las vegas
Marc Sabatella
Agreed. When Coker suggests looking at other players of your instrument
first, I'm sure he'd agree that electric and acoustic bass should be
considered together for the purpose of transcribing. A good bass line
is a good bass line, whether played on acoustic, electric, a tuba, the
low end of a keybaord, or whatever.
--------------
Marc Sabatella
ma...@outsideshore.com
Check out my latest CD, "Second Course"
Available on Cadence Jazz Records
Also "A Jazz Improvisation Primer", Scores, & More:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
Dan F Crea
(Marc Sabatella) wrote:
> In article <3774E1...@access.digex.net>, Dave Holmes
<jdho...@access.digex.net> wrote:
>
> >There's no reason you can't transcribe upright solos to play on
> >electric - same tuning, range etc. There's a ton of material out
> >there that would translate effortlessly to your axe.
>
> Agreed. When Coker suggests looking at other players of your instrument
> first, I'm sure he'd agree that electric and acoustic bass should be
> considered together for the purpose of transcribing. A good bass line
> is a good bass line, whether played on acoustic, electric, a tuba, the
> low end of a keybaord, or whatever.
Everything everybody said about elecric and acoustic being similar is
true, but I've always found it much easier to hear exactly what electric
bass players are doing than acoustic bassers.
What you need is some Pat Martino with Richard Davis on bass. Get the
album "Footprints" or the double disk, "Head and Heart", which was
originally two different albums, "Live" and "Conciousness". They're both
re-released on the 32 Jazz label. It's the best electric straight-ahead
swing I've ever heard, and it really does swing hard.
Dan
--
<I need to get a signature file...>
Boerge Soleng
<quinnth...@NOSPAMerols.com> writes:
I'm talking about straight ahead
>Bebop here, as it is quite easy to find electric bass on fusion albums.
>I know that Bob Cranshaw, Monk Montgomery and Steve Swallow are three of
>the main cats on electric bass in jazz, but can anyone recommend
>specific recordings that an inexperienced transcriber could reasonably
>tackle, or just especially noteworthy performances? I'd prefer
>something with some standards on it.
Just a few coming to mind:
Sonny Rollins' "+3", and theres several other Rollins albums featuring
Cranshaw on electric.
Steve Swallow's "Real Book". It doesn't feature standards, but originals
written on standard forms.
And then there's the guy which name I can't remember. He's been playing with
Mike Brecker ("Don'r try this at home") , Steps Ahead and Stern.
Boerge Soleng, boe...@vinn.no
__________________________________________________________________
"Nice touch!" (Miles Davis about Herbie Hancock)
McMahon
>Sonny Rollins' "+3", and theres several other Rollins albums featuring
>Cranshaw on electric.
I think JC was telling me he's a huge fan of this one ;) ...
--
Murph
tst...@businessobjects.com
dc...@d.umn.edu (Dan F Crea) wrote:
> [SNIP]
> What you need is some Pat Martino with Richard Davis on bass. Get the
> album "Footprints" or the double disk, "Head and Heart", which was
> originally two different albums, "Live" and "Conciousness". They're
both
> re-released on the 32 Jazz label. It's the best electric straight-
ahead
> swing I've ever heard, and it really does swing hard.
Actually, I'm pretty sure Richard Davis plays upright on "Footprints."
On "Live" and "Consciousness," Tyrone Brown plays bass guitar.
- Tom Storer
"When you're swinging, swing some more." - Thelonious Monk
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Rob Hewett
> Please help,
Although the genres are arguable, I'd strongly recommend
Pat Metheny's "Bright Size Life" with Jaco and Bob Moses.
These guys understand the bebop tradition and it comes
through on the album, although only one or two cuts "swing".
There is an absolute *ton* of cool bass stuff on that album, IMO.
Also, of course, have a listen to Jaco's take of the Charlie
Parker tune "Donna Lee" on his first solo album, "Jaco Pastorius".
There's a transcription out there of the solo, sorry I don't have
the ref handy. Now that's bebop on the electric bass!!
Someone mentioned Mike Stern in this thread, and the bassist
you may be trying to name is Jeff Andrews. Again, genres blur,
but Stern, while branded a fusion cat I suppose, is really a jazz/
blues guy at heart, as anyone who goes to his shows may concur.
Jeff had a workshop in BassPlayer once about getting a P-bass
sound from an upright (he doubles). Also, Ed Friedland has a column
in there (that's still online) about getting an upright sound from
electric.
Also, in the very broadest sense, J.S. Bach was kind
of a be-bopper, which is a way of recommending
working through some of his music, in particular the
Suites for Unaccompanied Cello, either transcribed for
bass or not. I think that is helpful training for many
musical styles.
-Rob
JC Martin
*LOL* Yeah, that Crenshaw really gets my toes tapping...NOT.
-JC
Dan F Crea
> In article <dcrea-28069...@dialup-6-116.d.umn.edu>,
> dc...@d.umn.edu (Dan F Crea) wrote:
> > [SNIP]
> > What you need is some Pat Martino with Richard Davis on bass. Get the
> > album "Footprints" or the double disk, "Head and Heart", which was
> > originally two different albums, "Live" and "Conciousness". They're
> both
> > re-released on the 32 Jazz label. It's the best electric straight-
> ahead
> > swing I've ever heard, and it really does swing hard.
>
> Actually, I'm pretty sure Richard Davis plays upright on "Footprints."
> On "Live" and "Consciousness," Tyrone Brown plays bass guitar.
>
> - Tom Storer
>
> "When you're swinging, swing some more." - Thelonious Monk
Doh! You're right. I dug out my copy, and you're definately right on
both counts. But it's an unusually clear upright...
Quinn Miller
swings. I haven't heard him on electric, but I'm pretty impressed with what
I've heard him play on upright on "The Bridge" with Sonny. I especially
like "You Do Something To Me." Moreover, he never played with Bird, but I
like the way he accompanied Big Bird. 8- )
Quinn
Quinn Miller
Quinn
Quinn Miller wrote:
Please help,I'm currently reading "Improvising Jazz" by Jerry Coker. I find the book to be very good. One thing Coker recommends is that students of jazz practice transcribing lines from recordings. He suggests that players start out trying to learn lines played by others on the same instrument, before trying to transcribe lines played by players of other instruments. My problem is this: I play electric bass. I don't play upright (though I love it dearly.) Can anyone recommend some jazz recordings that feature electric bass? I'm talking about straight ahead Bebop here, as it is quite easy to find electric bass on fusion albums. I know that Bob Cranshaw, Monk Montgomery and Steve Swallow are three of the main cats on electric bass in jazz, but can anyone recommend specific recordings that an inexperienced transcriber could reasonably tackle, or just especially noteworthy performances? I'd prefer something with some standards on it.
Quinn Miller
Jaco's 1st lp.) I've been meaning to get "Bright Size Life." Regarding
Bach, I used to play classical guitar and I always loved his bass
lines. I haven't tried to play any of his music on bass, but I'll keep
my eyes open for some Bach in bass clef. Thanks a lot for the
recommendations.
Quinn
Rob Hewett wrote:
> Quinn Miller wrote:
>
> > Please help,
>
Quinn Miller
I totally agree with your comment that it is often more difficult to hear
exactly what upright players are doing. I think the problem is a combination
of inadequate volume (on many recordings), the longer scale length, and the
fretlessness. As a listener, it sounds great. As a novice transcriber,
"Ugh!" Thanks for the recommendations.
Quinn
Dan F Crea wrote:
> In article <4ncd3.337$F3.171...@news.frii.net>, ma...@outsideshore.com
> (Marc Sabatella) wrote:
>
> > In article <3774E1...@access.digex.net>, Dave Holmes
> <jdho...@access.digex.net> wrote:
> >
> > >There's no reason you can't transcribe upright solos to play on
> > >electric - same tuning, range etc. There's a ton of material out
> > >there that would translate effortlessly to your axe.
> >
> > Agreed. When Coker suggests looking at other players of your instrument
> > first, I'm sure he'd agree that electric and acoustic bass should be
> > considered together for the purpose of transcribing. A good bass line
> > is a good bass line, whether played on acoustic, electric, a tuba, the
> > low end of a keybaord, or whatever.
>
> Everything everybody said about elecric and acoustic being similar is
> true, but I've always found it much easier to hear exactly what electric
> bass players are doing than acoustic bassers.
>
> What you need is some Pat Martino with Richard Davis on bass. Get the
> album "Footprints" or the double disk, "Head and Heart", which was
> originally two different albums, "Live" and "Conciousness". They're both
> re-released on the 32 Jazz label. It's the best electric straight-ahead
> swing I've ever heard, and it really does swing hard.
>
Quinn Miller
find it harder to hear what those guys are doing. Especially when they
go way down into the lower register. You're right that I should keep
trying though.
Thanks,
Quinn
Dave Holmes wrote:
> Quinn,
>
> There's no reason you can't transcribe upright solos to play on
> electric - same tuning, range etc. There's a ton of material out
> there that would translate effortlessly to your axe.
>
> Dave Homles
JC Martin
>You don't like Cranshaw? I'm guessing from your post you don't think he
>swings. I haven't heard him on electric, but I'm pretty impressed with
what
>I've heard him play on upright on "The Bridge" with Sonny. I especially
>like "You Do Something To Me." Moreover, he never played with Bird, but I
>like the way he accompanied Big Bird. 8- )
I don't have a problem with his acoustic playing. He's pretty good, though
not great. But his electric playing is just awful. I thought it would be
different seeing Sonny live (which I have about 4 times), but Bob's electric
playing just makes me cringe.
And it's not that I don't entirely like the electric bass in an acoustic
setting. A guy like Steve Swallow performs the duty well.
-JC
James Martin
McCoy Tyner (of John Coltrane fame) with Michael Brecker on sax. Can't
remember the name of the album, but the cut that comes to mind is called
"Changes" and has a really nice electric bass solo. Most of the album,
though, is on upright bass.
wheat
Rob Hewett
> setting. A guy like Steve Swallow performs the duty well.
sorry about this, but...
There is no guy like Steve Swallow!
Accept no substitute!
:-) (i know what you mean tho)
-Rob (major SS fan)
Howard Peirce
I saw this guy live a couple years ago. As I recall, he was playing a
solid-body upright, sitting down, with the peg all the way in, holding it
like a cello. It may have been the same axe--those solid-bodies can sound
like either an electric or upright, depending. From the flights of
virtuousity I recall, though, I'm not sure I'd recommend him to a beginning
transcriber.
HP
James Martin
>I saw this guy live a couple years ago. As I recall, he was playing a
>solid-body upright, sitting down, with the peg all the way in, holding it
>like a cello. It may have been the same axe--those solid-bodies can sound
>like either an electric or upright, depending. From the flights of
>virtuousity I recall, though, I'm not sure I'd recommend him to a beginning
>transcriber.
I thought the liner notes to the album I had in mind mentioned him as
playing electric and acoustic, but I could be wrong. I'll go to cdnow and
find the album and the track, if I can.
He is quite good though, probably a hard one to transcribe. But as I
recall, the particular cut was fairly slow and bluesy. And he was the
only other electric trad jazzer I could think of off hand.
Thanks for your imput. I'd love to see Sharpe live. I tried finding out
mroe about him on the internet, but there's not much out there. C'est
dommage.
Wheat
Todd Bishop
Quinn Miller wrote:
> You don't like Cranshaw? I'm guessing from your post you don't think he
> swings. I haven't heard him on electric, but I'm pretty impressed with what
> I've heard him play on upright on "The Bridge" with Sonny. I especially
> like "You Do Something To Me." Moreover, he never played with Bird, but I
> like the way he accompanied Big Bird. 8- )
>
Evidently Sonny was pretty impressed, too.TB
Kevin OConnor
standup, otherwise it just doesn't cut it.
Todd Bishop <tb...@uswest.net> wrote in message
news:3779A5AE...@uswest.net...
void
wrote:
>The only electric bass players I like are the ones who make it sound like a
>standup, otherwise it just doesn't cut it.
I used to feel similarly, but after hearing Jamaladeen Tacuma make
unbelievable Sun Ra outer space noises at a Marc Ribot gig last month,
I'm not so sure.
--
Ben
/ I believe that the moment is near when by a procedure of active paranoiac \
| thought, it will be possible to systematize confusion and contribute to |
\ the total discrediting of the world of reality. -- Salvador Dali /
tst...@businessobjects.com
"Kevin OConnor" <kev...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> The only electric bass players I like are the ones who make it sound
> like a standup
Like who?
Off the top of my head, I can't think of any bass guitarists who make
it sound like a real upright.
Personally, I don't see why anyone would play an instrument and avoid
what makes that instrument unique. It's kind of like saying "The only
synthesizer players I like are the ones who make it sound just like a
normal piano."
I guess you just dislike the way bass guitar sounds, when it sounds
like a bass guitar?
- Tom Storer
"When you're swinging, swing some more." - Thelonious Monk
Kevin OConnor
is when a player will make his stand-up sound like an electric when they use
pick-ups. I really love the sound of a microphone stand-up like they
recorded in the sixty's. I have a stand-up and I'm trying to learn how to
play it and tone is everything. Some of the best advice Iv heard was from my
father and he said"in jazz, it's better to feel the bass than to hear it".
Adam Bond
try making each and every note of equal shape and volume with the same
amount of space between notes. If you hear it like an upright, then it will
come across more like an upright. Granted, it is still an electric, but it
can be reproduced if you try. I've had people tell me at gigs that my bass
sounded almost like an upright. That made me feel good because I was trying
to imitate it as much as possible.
<tst...@businessobjects.com> wrote in message
news:7mk6ia$acv$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Manny R.
know has
more high end than any other bass around. IMHO the best way to sound like an
upright
player while playing the electric is to
1) Get your walking lines down..
This means all the approches - scalar, chromatic, 5th, modal,
etc Most upright bassists have walking chops going real well. Many electric
playes don't (they're too busy slapping - laugh)
See Ed Friedland's book "Building Walking Bass Lines" for a
refresher/introduction.
There are probably some free lessons on some of the Bass sites that deal with
walking bass lines also but the book is cheap, well written, bullshit-free and
to
the point.
2) Roll of high end and/or mute the strings with your palm or you can use the
time honored "foam under the strings at the bridge" trick. I use the flesh of
my right hand
palm to mute. This muffles the sound and makes the notes
punchier and more percussive ... like an upright. The foam trick doesn't
interest
me but I have seen and heard of many professionals using this trick.
I should point out that the only time I would want to sound like an upright is
if
I was being requested to do so. Other than that I enjoy investigating the
"uniquites"
of the electric bass sound. Nothing wrong with upright bass I just like electric
bass more... Jam on....